Will we witness satan's access to God?

Hidden

Well-Known Member
I was just listening to Gary Stearman's recent video and he said that the 4 living creatures who are closest to God are like the executive branch. And it got me thinking, if the angels are the military branch, maybe the Church is the judicial branch? Daniel 27:26 says that the "court shall be seated and take away his (the antichrist) power forever". Ephesians 2:6 says we are seated with Christ in the heavenly places. Also that we will be judging angels, that's part of our job description as an assembly.
 

Batfan7

Well-Known Member
The Bible does say that we will judge the angels, and I tend to think that this refers to the Fallen angels. Of which Satan is one. So, perhaps God will be Judge, but all the saints will be the Jury when the final trial at the end of the Millennium takes place. *shrugs* However, I do think it is possible that we might see Satan earlier, but I don't think that we'll either care or take much notice of him. Like a fly buzzing around the throne of God, he will be too inconsequential to even give half a thought to, especially in comparison to the majesty of our God.
 

daygo

Well-Known Member
The Bible does say that we will judge the angels, and I tend to think that this refers to the Fallen angels. Of which Satan is one. So, perhaps God will be Judge, but all the saints will be the Jury when the final trial at the end of the Millennium takes place. *shrugs* However, I do think it is possible that we might see Satan earlier, but I don't think that we'll either care or take much notice of him. Like a fly buzzing around the throne of God, he will be too inconsequential to even give half a thought to, especially in comparison to the majesty of our God.
Agree.
 

gregb4hope

Active Member
Just wondering...
Scripture informs us that satan currently has access to God's throne to accuse each of us.
We are told how satan will be finally thrown from Heaven at the middle of the tribulation, along with his angelic cohorts.
Most of us believe that our rapture occurs at some point prior to the tribulation.
Just wondering if we will be allowed to witness satan accusing new tribulation believers, and God's awesome response, before he is banished for good?
Thoughts?
An interesting observation, but as a Pre Tribber, I believe what most tribulations saints will see due to the raptured believers in heavens means that they have been left behind to see the reality of the satanic evil of the devil system while also being aware of the wrath of God who will be intensifying His own reality to an unbelieving world. You and I believe by faith, hence born again, but the left behind need facts and facts is what God gives them plus the awakening of the impact of the Rapture will tell just how literal God is and that the book of Revealation is all about and its revealing intent.
In one of the "woes" of the 7th trumpet it reveals the wrath of Satan. It represents the official transition from the devil to Christ as ruler. The devil will work thru an empowered AntiChrist by the healing of a mortal wound in Rev CH 13. This will be the evidence to support your observation. So the book of Revelation is really about revealing God Himself and of course Jesus Christ coming Millenial Kingdom. Hope that helps, In ChristLov.
 

ItIsFinished!

Blood bought child of the King of kings.
The Bible does say that we will judge the angels, and I tend to think that this refers to the Fallen angels. Of which Satan is one. So, perhaps God will be Judge, but all the saints will be the Jury when the final trial at the end of the Millennium takes place. *shrugs* However, I do think it is possible that we might see Satan earlier, but I don't think that we'll either care or take much notice of him. Like a fly buzzing around the throne of God, he will be too inconsequential to even give half a thought to, especially in comparison to the majesty of our God.
Satan IS NOT an angel.
He is a fallen Cherub.
 

ItIsFinished!

Blood bought child of the King of kings.
Is it possible that a Cherub is a type or class of angel?
I personally do not believe so.
The Scriptures do not imply that there is a type or class.
Separate distinct creatures , with distinct service.
The Scriptures do imply a hierarchy within the angels , but not a type or class.
The Word of God never states that Satan was an angel nor a type of angel , only that he masquerades as an angel of light.

The Bible teaches that Satan is a fallen Cherub .
Therefore he should be addressed accordingly as such , not generically as just another type of angel. Such as when one is speaking or writing about who he is , not everytime his name is mentioned.

Jude 9
Yet Michael the archangel , when contending
with the devil he disputed about the body of
Mo'-ses, durst not bring against him a railing
accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

Archangel is a title, not a type or class.
Not even Michael the archangel dared to come
against the fallen Cherub , Satan.
That let's us know Satan is a pretty powerful creature even in his fallen state.


Gabriel who is mentioned a few times in the Scriptures doesn't have the title archangel attached to his name in the Scriptures.
Doesn't necessarily mean he isn't an archangel, but the Bible never states he is.
 

Tall Timbers

Imperfect but forgiven
I personally do not believe so.

There's a good chance you're right, but a good many Bible teachers refer to Satan as an angel and in many people's minds the heavenly beings are all angels... which is probably why a good many Bible teachers refer to Satan as an angel. If Cherubs are not a class of angel, I don't think they'll be offended. In terms of being Biblically accurate, you're dead on.
 

Wally

Choose Your Words Carefully...
Lets check Scripture.

We know from Job satan had access. He directly challenged God about Job.

Revelation 12:9-11 HCSB

9 So the great dragon was thrown out—the ancient serpent, who is called the Devil and Satan, the one who deceives the whole world. He was thrown to earth, and his angels with him.

10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:
The salvation and the power
and the kingdom of our God
and the authority of His Messiah
have now come,

because the accuser of our brothers
has been thrown out:
the one who accuses them
before our God day and night.
11 They conquered him
by the blood of the Lamb
and by the word of their testimony,
for they did not love their lives
in the face of death.



The implication is that satan IS in heaven accusing us before God. he has a voice - a podium there and he uses it.
Perhaps this is much like Job, in that satan argues against us and in doing so, God allows tests to be done to prove- purify us. All under His merciful and wise eyes.
Remember Peter was sifted, and Paul was up against powers beyond flesh.

Once we have been raptured, this proving is complete and satan's work appears done. Yet there are a few more brethren to be added. Those who wise up at the last minute and understand: Compromise = Death. Dying for the Gospel = Life. Perhaps that is why he lingers in God's presence.

Its almost like a last challenge to God: Fine. You let me go just so far with Job, Now take the kid gloves off. Let me chose how to test these so called Christians - even to death.

In context of Revelation, The 2 witnesses have been resurrected in view of the whole earth. And now the 7th Trumpet has sounded.
The new proclamation has been made and Christ now has dominion over all the earth.

There does appear to be a pause as the stage diverts to the Birth of the Church, but it returns to the host praising God and an angelic war breaking out.

satan has been fighting for his toehold in heaven. Its now gone. he is now fighting for his reign over the earth. Time is running out and he knows it.


For those who are pretrib, we have seen all of this from the Seals, through the Trumpets.

For mid tribbers, they may be able to wave at the flaming serpent as they pass.

For post tribbers, your odds of survival are so poor, and God's grace to His bride so vast, a rapture after all the judgment poured on earth is a contradiction to His proclamation of love for those that are His.
 
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Bethlehem57

Well-Known Member
In Revelation, does John mention actually seeing Satan making accusations?? Off hand I can't remember a verse like that.

However, I am of the persuasion that we will see what John saw...Satan being wrapped in chains..etc...
And I could be wrong.
Revelation 12:10 “Then I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying,“Now the salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren has been thrown down, he who accuses them before our God day and night.”

Satan accuses in the OT in Job 2:1-6 and in Zechariah 3:1-2. He accuses Christ in Matthew and is alluded to in 2 Corinthians 2:11 “so that no advantage would be taken of us by Satan, for we are not ignorant of his schemes.”

Agree that we will not care because we will be too busy with our Groom!
 

Dragontiger777

Well-Known Member
A big question is that "WHY"

God made Lucifer as Archangel and how he changes to evil things. But in first place why God made this?
 

ItIsFinished!

Blood bought child of the King of kings.
A big question is that "WHY"

God made Lucifer as Archangel and how he changes to evil things. But in first place why God made this?
Satan is a Cherub . Not an archangel.
When he was made , he had no sin.
However , sin was found in his heart.
He fell from glory due to his chosen sin, which was pride.
Through the rebellion God's glory was manifested and magnified .
 

Dragontiger777

Well-Known Member
Satan is a Cherub . Not an archangel.
When he was made , he had no sin.
However , sin was found in his heart.
He fell from glory due to his chosen sin, which was pride.
Through the rebellion God's glory was manifested and magnified .
That is not my point. Why God created that person Cherub (as he is most beautiful (Why Cherub become sin; that puzzled me question) Why not God knew that person will lead evil/sin then why not destroy before Adam/Eve???? That is total puzzle not even in the Bible clear why?
 

ItIsFinished!

Blood bought child of the King of kings.
That is not my point. Why God created that person Cherub (as he is most beautiful (Why Cherub become sin; that puzzled me question) Why not God knew that person will lead evil/sin then why not destroy before Adam/Eve???? That is total puzzle not even in the Bible clear why?
Love is a choice.
That is why the " tree of the knowledge of good and evil" was planted.
Man has a choice.
Love is a choice.
Man was made perfect just like the fallen Cherub.
They both chose to rebel against God.
Yes God knew they would , but that doesnt place the burden of accountability upon Him.
We are free will creatures made in the image / likeness of our Creator God.
God gave us the freedom to choose.
He created us for His glory.

Isaiah 43:7
Even every one that is called by my name :
for I have created him for my glory , I have
formed him; I have made him.
 

GHoe

Well-Known Member
Love is a choice.
That is why the " tree of the knowledge of good and evil" was planted.
Man has a choice.
Love is a choice.
Man was made perfect just like the fallen Cherub.
They both chose to rebel against God.
Yes God knew they would , but that doesnt place the burden of accountability upon Him.
We are free will creatures made in the image / likeness of our Creator God.
God gave us the freedom to choose.
He created us for His glory.

Isaiah 43:7
Even every one that is called by my name :
for I have created him for my glory , I have
formed him; I have made him.
Another angle I've heard recently was should God not have created men that He knew would deny Him and go to hell. Why did God create people if He knew so many would go to hell.. The answer was, God not creating man because they might condemn themselves and go to hell, only punishes the children of God that would choose to love Him and accept Him as their savior.
 

Dragontiger777

Well-Known Member
So, God knew Cherub that He made/created therefore He knew that Cherub, why can't God stop him from beyond sin include He can stop him before beyond worse but seem that God allow it to be destroy God's children fallaway.

I know that bad and blunt but sorry.
 

ItIsFinished!

Blood bought child of the King of kings.
So, God knew Cherub that He made/created therefore He knew that Cherub, why can't God stop him from beyond sin include He can stop him before beyond worse but seem that God allow it to be destroy God's children fallaway.

I know that bad and blunt but sorry.
The age old question!
Haven't we not all contemplated such a question?
I would venture to say yes.
First and foremost , God's Word does not directly answer this much meditated upon question.

That said, I would answer in a manner in that which we do know through what the Holy Scriptures reveal .

Isaiah 55: 8-9
For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways , saith the LORD.
For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways,
and my thoughts than your thoughts.

We are limited with our finite minds to understanding and grasping the full complexities of an infinite God .
However, we do know plenty to trust Him and not to let doubt cloud that which we do know of Him.
I personally believe that we could not truly and fully understand His glory and grace if it were to have gone any other way than it has .

We witness His majesty and wonder.
For God is the very definition of Love. (1John 4:8)

Therefore , we simply trust Him with child like faith.
 

Dragontiger777

Well-Known Member
Here is simply questions is that God knew/know that He will lose trillion of His children to hell "Lake of Fire" along with Cherub 'Lucifer" plus other. Because He let it happens instead save His children? That my thought beyond understand than His knowledge than my. Therefore we are worthless before Him.

As we trying fill out why He let that happen to spilling or open the worms can to destroy HIs beautiful children????
 

Dave_97

Well-Known Member
That is not my point. Why God created that person Cherub (as he is most beautiful (Why Cherub become sin; that puzzled me question) Why not God knew that person will lead evil/sin then why not destroy before Adam/Eve???? That is total puzzle not even in the Bible clear why?
Apart from all the other good answers you have received, its simply that God chose things the way he did to fully display himself so we can know him fully.

Think of it like this, it was Satan that tempted Adam and Eve to sin. So in this whole story Satan is the antagonist.

So if Adam and Eve never sinned, humans would have never fallen and lived in peace. But would never know Gods just character and his amazing grace through Jesus Christ.

Christ would never die on the cross, and no human would ever experience Gods grace this deep, or comprehend his judgements.

In a way, they situation we are in now let’s us see the justice of God, but also his never ending grace.


A portion of Romans 9 sort of talks about this. Romans 9 is a very difficult passage, and just putting it out there. I don’t support Calvinism at all. I’m putting this passage cause it speaks on God as creator with authority and man as a created being.

“Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor? What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭9‬:‭21‬-‭24‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/114/rom.9.21-23.NKJV

In other words Paul is kinda answering that long question. If God knew those who disobeyed or rebelled (in this chapter the nation of Israel) why even create them? But Paul is asking what if God created them knowing they would disobey him, but used that to display his wrath (that otherwise would not be known?), but at the same time display forgiveness to those who accepted him (In this chapter would be gentiles and a remnant of Israel) Is he wrong in doing that?

The simple answer is no His not. Cause we human beings are created by God. To question his moral decision is self defeating.

“You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?” But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, “Why have you made me like this?””
‭‭Romans‬ ‭9‬:‭19‬-‭20‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

The way I see it. If God used fallen humanity to reveal himself to his creation in a way maybe we would have never seen. From Genesis to Revelation God has revealed himself through all three persons (Father, Son, Holy Spirit)

I just can’t comprehend a world were Jesus is not our savior who bled on the cross.
 
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