Why doesn't the USA help Israel in the Gog/Magog War?

TRex2

Well-Known Member
I got a feeling America will be given to the Medes and the Persians, America and specifically New York City is a modern day Babylon.
She prostitutes her doctrine of “freedom and liberty” (for a price) and sits a a queen who can take away another country’s food if she wants.
She control’s the value of the world’s most valuable resource (oil)
I disagree, and I think you are confused about what America stands for.
I do agree, however, that NYC is a modern version of Babylon.
(But NYC is a cancer on our nation, not our leader.)
 

ItIsFinished!

Well-Known Member
Could be. We just don't know the future, except what is given to us in the scripture. I think though, that all that would need to happen is another Democrat in the White House paying lip-service to being Israel's friend while giving aid to her enemies, for the US to be out of the picture.

I can seriously see a socialist nightmare being foisted on us by a younger voting generation that doesn't know its history. I can also imagine any number of scenarios where the immigration crisis leaves us so broken, from letting terrorists in, to immigrants with horrible diseases that should have been quarantined, to thinning out the voter pool with illegal immigrants illegally voting themselves benefits being paid by the taxpayers, and leaving the bank, so to speak, drained dry. We're over-extended now on credit as a nation. The only reason other nations lend us money is because we have been "too big to fail." I can imagine a Yellowstone Supervolcano blowing out the country. I can also imagine that we descend into a racially charged civil war. Throw in the upcoming food crisis (if farmers can't grow food, it becomes more expensive to buy food, not just for poor people, but also the middle class) and truth be told, we really have a lot to deal with as a nation.

I think also that the United States is due for some condemnation from God merely for the evil that it has promoted worldwide from Hollywood, pop culture music and the like. Young people in other countries want to be like the Americans they see on t.v., including the greedy, indulgent, promiscuous, self-absorbed lifestyles of the "beautiful people." I don't believe that God will take action before the rapture. I think He is being very patient in that regard. But how long can we (as a nation) throw our middle fingers up at heaven parading the worst sorts of depravity in rainbow colors while attacking our most innocent defenseless citizens? It is- I seriously have no words. It's too much for me to take some days.

I see the horses in a row. I see the chess pieces on the board, and it feels like we're just waiting for the moves to begin. If I didn't have Jesus, I think that I would be horribly depressed. Even now, I pray everyday for God to give me strength just to make it through the day.
This a really good post friend.
I agree and have the same sentiments.
 

Ohioan

Well-Known Member
The USA is not going to disappear from the scene, as I believe three very important chapters speak directly from the Bible about the USA and that is Revelation 18, Jeremiah 50 and 51. They go hand in hand.

Another principle is one that has been going on since Genesis 12, I will bless them them that bless thee and curse those who curse thee. Last time I checked there are more Jews that have been harbored here than anyplace else in the world.
 

TRex2

Well-Known Member
The USA is not going to disappear from the scene, as I believe three very important chapters speak directly from the Bible about the USA and that is Revelation 18, Jeremiah 50 and 51. They go hand in hand.
So, you think we are Babylon?

Another principle is one that has been going on since Genesis 12, I will bless them them that bless thee and curse those who curse thee. Last time I checked there are more Jews that have been harbored here than anyplace else in the world.
AND you think we will continue to be blessed?

How can that be?
 

Channah

Well-Known Member
This a really good post friend.
I agree and have the same sentiments.
I agree. God judged Israel and America was/is Christian. Judgment starts at the House of God. I think the reason (lately) that America does not help Israel is because America turned Socialist/Communist and becomes anti-Israel. Or we are destroyed as we have become like Sodom and Gomorrah and Molech worshippers (abortion).

I also believe like when Abraham was asking God if he was going to destroy the cities if there was one righteous person in it and God said no, so Lot was taken out. We true believers are raptured. I pray lately that I am in the rapture. Come Lord Jesus. We are longing for You.
 

Len

Well-Known Member
The USA is not going to disappear from the scene, as I believe three very important chapters speak directly from the Bible about the USA and that is Revelation 18, Jeremiah 50 and 51. They go hand in hand.

Another principle is one that has been going on since Genesis 12, I will bless them them that bless thee and curse those who curse thee. Last time I checked there are more Jews that have been harbored here than anyplace else in the world.
I agree that USA would probably still be a country but I think somehow it is severely limited in its capacity to help, perhaps the rapture has taken all those who would come to Israels aid or perhaps those same people are dead or immobilised somehow ..... no one knows for sure, but just because America is not right out in front helping Israel does not mean they are destroyed as a nation, everything for us is just guessing.
 

Ohioan

Well-Known Member
The reason I think the U.S. will not help Israel is because we are taken out from an attack from the north as portrayed by Jeremiah 50 and 51 and this attack does not take place until the midpoint of the tribulation period. The devastation of the U.S. is going to be terrible from what I am reading, and I think that Russia does not attack until the U.S. is taken out.

Now I think you can understand the gravity of the warning given to the Jews in Revelation 18, that warning has to be going out to the Jews before that attack takes place as I think that the judgement of the U.S. for it's sins take place at that time. Remember in Daniel 9 that Daniel the prophet is making oblation concerning his people the Jews. Why do I say that the warning is going out to the Jews, because the emphasis of Daniel 9 concerns his people, and the last 7 years of the special dispensation given the Jews will be in the process of fulfillment.
 

Amity

Well-Known Member
I think the rapture, regardless of how few adults may be taken, will leave the masses so distraught and confused that many will just want answers and will believe the lies if for no other reason than to soothe those fears and the pain from loss. Image the grief when your child is just suddenly gone, not just your own but the world over, with no worldly explanation. If they are told that they were removed for safe keeping while the world gets its issues lined out, imagine what they will believe. When the AC comes along with lying wonders, by the time they realize their mistake it will be too late. So, yes, even if the numbers are low, the effect will be massive!

I take heart in the fact than an untold multitude of tribulation saints will come to faith. Just imagine those 144,000 'Billy Graham's' running around the world.
 

mikhen7

Freed By Christ to Serve Christ
Sadly, I used to be one of those.
With reference to post #44 - I have never had Rapture Burnout simply because I know the Rapture does not depend on signs. The signs point to the tribulation or Second Coming (Rev 19). I also am firmly entrenched in knowing the Rapture is an imminent event. It could happen at anytime. Yes, there are what seems to be lulls and sways in news stories etc... that some are always looking for to see if they add another piece to the end-time puzzle. That is why there are so many you tube videos posted around signs and end-time events. But if we will settle it in our heart that the Rapture is an imminent event, then instead of looking for signs as your primary interest, you will be looking unto Jesus and how best to serve Him. Imminence brings urgency. Urgency brings forth devotion. Devotion shows itself in the fruits of service and stewardship.

Robert Thomas writes: "The repetition of ἐν τάχει and other literary indications in Revelation indicate that relief for the faithful from persecution along with judgment to the rest of the world, may happen at any moment. References to imminence in Revelation include the following: (a) ἐν τάχει in 1:1 and in 22:6; (b) ταχύ (“soon”) in 2:16; 3:11; 22:7, 12, 20; (c) the use of ἐγγύς (“near”) in 1:3 and 22:10; (d) the “thief” simile in 3:3 and 16:15; (e) the futuristic use of the present tense of ἔρχομαι (“is coming”) in 1:7; 2:5, 16; 3:11; 16:15; 22:7, 12, 20; (f) the metaphor of the judge at the door in 3:20; and (g) the use of μέλλω in 3:10, 16. Compounded with many references to imminence in other New Testament books, these literary devices show why the church from its beginning until the present has viewed end-time events, including the coming of Christ, as something that could occur or begin to occur at any moment.

Robert L. Thomas, “The Doctrine of Imminence in Two Recent Eschatological Systems,” Bibliotheca Sacra 157 (2000): 453–454.
 
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Ohioan

Well-Known Member
I agree that USA would probably still be a country but I think somehow it is severely limited in its capacity to help, perhaps the rapture has taken all those who would come to Israels aid or perhaps those same people are dead or immobilised somehow ..... no one knows for sure, but just because America is not right out in front helping Israel does not mean they are destroyed as a nation, everything for us is just guessing.
Sorry, I had to read what you said with more of an understanding as to what you meant as to what I wrote,

I have no idea what is going to happen to the rest of the world's involvement when the Psalm 83 war takes place, I can only look at scripture and read that none of those nations involved in that war are mentioned in the Ezekiel 38 and 39 war.

Israel is victorious in the Psalm 83 war and it has to be pretrib and before the Ezekiel 38and 39 war.

Ezekiel's war takes place in the tribulation period and has to take place at the midpoint of the trib period when Israel is at peace, because of the covenant confirmed by antichrist between him and many nations Daniel 9:27 Ezekiel 38:11

Who really stands in the way of Russia militarily, only the U.S.
 

Ohioan

Well-Known Member
Jesus coming for his church has to be really close since Jesus said that the generation (that saw the rebirth of Israel) would not pass away till all these things be fulfilled.

The Psalm 83 war will precede the tribulation period

The rise of the antichrist comes after the rapture but before the tribulation Daniel 9:27

the nations that are involved in the Psalm 83 war are not mentioned in the Ezekiel 38 and 39 war which means that Gog Magog takes place after the Psalm 83 war

The Psalm 83 war is going to involve Isaiah 17 of Damascus becoming a ruinous heap in one nights time

The Psalm 83 war also involves Egypt which will become desolate for 40 years Ezekiel 29:11

Russia must survive the Psalm 83 war for the only time it does invade is when Israel is at peace Ezekiel 38:11 and this has to be inside the trib period under the peace covenant of Dan 9:27


where does the U.S. fit in, the nation being described in Jeremiah 50 is described as being the hindermost of the nations or the last of the nations Jer 50:12

it is described as being attacked from the north Jeremiah 50:3 , (going over the north pole from the U.S. who is there Russia)

it is described as the hammer of all the earth Jer 50:23

Arrows shall be be shot at this latter day nation Jer 50:9 and none shall return in vain (missiles anyone)

the results, this nation described will be as Sodom and Gomorrah Jer 50:40

The imagery and description are there as the identity of the hindermost or last of the nations.

In Jeremiah 51:5,6 the same warning is given to his people Israel to flee out of the midst of Babylon as in Revelation 18:4,5

Well you can judge for yourselves, there are more parallel passages between Jeremiah 50 and 51 and Revelation 18
 
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mikhen7

Freed By Christ to Serve Christ
Russia must survive this war for the only time it does invade is when Israel is at peace Ezekiel 38:11 and this has to be inside the trib period under the peace covenant of Dan 9:27
Which War? Psalm 83? You mention they are not in that war. Ezekiel 38/39? They will be totally annihilated in my understanding. I do understand the KJV states in Ezek 39:2 that a sixth part of them will survive, but that is not at all in the Hebrew. I will research further, but even the NKJV does not say that. That said Fruchtenbaum states:

Another thing to notice is the mistranslation found in the King James Version of verse two. The King James Version indicates that one-sixth of the invading army is left alive. This is not found in the Hebrew text and has not been translated that way by subsequent translations. It is not true that one-sixth of the invading army will be left alive. The entire invading army will be destroyed when they invade Israel and nothing will remain, not even one-sixth.

In Ezekiel 39:6 another dimension is added to the Russian invasion:

And I will send a fire on Magog, and on them that dwell securely in the isles; and they shall know that I am Jehovah.

Not only is the Russian and allied army destroyed in Israel, but the land of Russia itself is devastated by the raining of brimstone, causing much destruction in the nation itself. It will cause Russia to cease being a political force in world affairs. -- Arnold G. Fruchtenbaum, The Footsteps of the Messiah : A Study of the Sequence of Prophetic Events, Rev. ed. (Tustin, CA: Ariel Ministries, 2003), 115.

Dyer states:
39:1–8. The invading armies will be totally destroyed by God. Having brought them against the mountains of Israel (v. 2; cf. 38:8), God will weaken them (39:3) and strike them down on the mountains of Israel. This once-mighty army will then be food for birds and … wild animals.
God will also punish the homelands of the invaders: I will send fire on Magog and on those who live in safety in the coastlands. Sending fire implies destruction and military devastation (30:8, 14, 16; cf. Hosea 8:14; Amos 1:4, 7, 10, 14; 2:2, 5). The nation that will spawn the invasion will herself be destroyed. The “coastlands,” already mentioned several times by Ezekiel (cf. Ezek. 26:15, 18; 27:3, 6–7, 15, 35), imply the farthest reaches of the known world. Through all this God will teach Israel that He is holy and is not to be profaned by their sins (cf. 36:22). Also the nations will see that He is the Holy One in Israel. -- Charles H. Dyer, “Ezekiel,” in The Bible Knowledge Commentary: An Exposition of the Scriptures, ed. J. F. Walvoord and R. B. Zuck, vol. 1 (Wheaton, IL: Victor Books, 1985), 1301.


where does the U.S. fit in, the nation being described in Jeremiah 50 is described as being the hindermost of the nations or the last of the nations Jer 50:12

it is described as being attacked from the north Jeremiah 50:3 , (going over the north pole from the U.S. who is there Russia)

it is described as the hammer of all the earth Jer 50:23

Arrows shall be be shot at this latter day nation Jer 50:9 and none shall return in vain (missiles anyone)

the results, this nation described will be as Sodom and Gomorrah Jer 50:40

The imagery and description are there as the identity of the hindermost or last of the nations.

In Jeremiah 51:5,6 the same warning is given to his people Israel to flee out of the midst of Babylon as in Revelation 18:4,5

Well you can judge for yourselves, there are more parallel passages between Jeremiah 50 and 51 and Revelation 18
I have also read this many years ago. Not much on it since. These passages are used to fit the US into Bible prophecy circumstantially. Others are, Jer 50:37 (immigrants), 50:38 (idolatry), 51:13 (dwell by many waters, rich), and 53 (mount up to heaven (space travel). Yes the US could fit these. But there is not strong consensus among premill scholars on this.
 

Ohioan

Well-Known Member
Which war? Psalm 83 war, Mikhen . Sorry, I did not mean to confuse my meaning. I have said I do not know how the other nations are involved with the Psalm 83 war in a previous post besides those mentioned in Psalm 83.

I will look at the other portion later.

Thanks for responding
 

Ohioan

Well-Known Member
Which War? Psalm 83? You mention they are not in that war. Ezekiel 38/39? They will be totally annihilated in my understanding. I do understand the KJV states in Ezek 39:2 that a sixth part of them will survive, but that is not at all in the Hebrew. I will research further, but even the NKJV does not say that. That said Fruchtenbaum states:

Another thing to notice is the mistranslation found in the King James Version of verse two. The King James Version indicates that one-sixth of the invading army is left alive. This is not found in the Hebrew text and has not been translated that way by subsequent translations. It is not true that one-sixth of the invading army will be left alive. The entire invading army will be destroyed when they invade Israel and nothing will remain, not even one-sixth.

In Ezekiel 39:6 another dimension is added to the Russian invasion:

And I will send a fire on Magog, and on them that dwell securely in the isles; and they shall know that I am Jehovah.

Not only is the Russian and allied army destroyed in Israel, but the land of Russia itself is devastated by the raining of brimstone, causing much destruction in the nation itself. It will cause Russia to cease being a political force in world affairs. -- Arnold G. Fruchtenbaum, The Footsteps of the Messiah : A Study of the Sequence of Prophetic Events, Rev. ed. (Tustin, CA: Ariel Ministries, 2003), 115.

Dyer states:
39:1–8. The invading armies will be totally destroyed by God. Having brought them against the mountains of Israel (v. 2; cf. 38:8), God will weaken them (39:3) and strike them down on the mountains of Israel. This once-mighty army will then be food for birds and … wild animals.
God will also punish the homelands of the invaders: I will send fire on Magog and on those who live in safety in the coastlands. Sending fire implies destruction and military devastation (30:8, 14, 16; cf. Hosea 8:14; Amos 1:4, 7, 10, 14; 2:2, 5). The nation that will spawn the invasion will herself be destroyed. The “coastlands,” already mentioned several times by Ezekiel (cf. Ezek. 26:15, 18; 27:3, 6–7, 15, 35), imply the farthest reaches of the known world. Through all this God will teach Israel that He is holy and is not to be profaned by their sins (cf. 36:22). Also the nations will see that He is the Holy One in Israel. -- Charles H. Dyer, “Ezekiel,” in The Bible Knowledge Commentary: An Exposition of the Scriptures, ed. J. F. Walvoord and R. B. Zuck, vol. 1 (Wheaton, IL: Victor Books, 1985), 1301.




I have also read this many years ago. Not much on it since. These passages are used to fit the US into Bible prophecy circumstantially. Others are, Jer 50:37 (immigrants), 50:38 (idolatry), 51:13 (dwell by many waters, rich), and 53 (mount up to heaven (space travel). Yes the US could fit these. But there is not strong consensus among premill scholars on this.
Since you brought it up and you might like to read this. I did find that interesting of the way different versions translate the text.

https://www.franknelte.net/article.php?article_id=383
 

mikhen7

Freed By Christ to Serve Christ
Yes, I have read and understand what he is talking about. Basically if the Heb. word is taken to be an ordinal, it at one time meant "sixth." But if the word is taken as a non-ordinal, it means "lead you on" or "drive forward." So does context determine the ordinal usage or the phrase? Either way it it is taken, either the armies are wiped out or a shred of what was survives. Only to die later if they do not turn to Christ. Thanks for sharing :)
 
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Ohioan

Well-Known Member
One cannot identify the place that the U.S. plays in prophecy until one understands the place Russia has in the war as described in Ezekiel 38 and 39
so I will post this description of the war by Dwight Pentecost and the possible outcomes as described by different authors.



Where Do the Events of Ezekiel 38-39 Fit into the Prophetic Picture?—J. Dwight PentecostThe rise of Russia in a comparatively few years from an insignificant nation to a power feared because of her avowed purpose of global dominion, whose sway has been extended over a majority of the earth’s population, whose political philosophy is rapidly dividing the world into Communist and anti-Communist camps, has given a renewed interest in and importance to the prophecy concerning Gog and Magog in the thirty-eighth and thirty-ninth chapters of Ezekiel. Consistently students of prophecy have understood that these chapters depict the invasion that sets off a global war. In the light of current events, when the populace of our nations hope for peace but expect and plan for war, it becomes a pressing question as to when the events described in those chapters will take place.It is the purpose of this study to attempt to set forth the time at which the events in Ezekiel 38and 39will transpire. We shall do this by relating parallel Scriptures to this prophecy to formulate the complete picture of these events as given by revelation. We shall confine our investigation to this one question. We shall not concern ourselves with the identification of the nations described as participants, but assume the identification held by most Bible students and ably presented by Bauman (Louis S. Bauman, Russian Events in the Light of Bible Prophecy, pp. 17-38). In brief, the powers represented in these two chapters are: Magog, which is Russia, also referred to as Rosh; Meshech and Tubal, which are ancient tribal names, as Moscow and Tobolsk; Persia, as Iran; Cush and Put, possibly as Ethiopia and Libya in North Africa, butbetter as portions of Assyria; Gomer, as Germany; Togarmah, as Turkey; Sheba and Dedan, as Arab tribes or states surrounding Palestine; Tarshish, as Spain or possibly Great Britain.Further, we shall not be primarily concerned with the events that are describedin this portion, except as they will throw light on the problem of the time of the invasion. There is general agreement among Bible students concerning the outline of events. Russia is seen to make an alliance with Persia, Ethiopia, Libya, Germany, and Turkey (vv. 2, 5, 6). Because Israel seems like easy prey (v. 11), this confederation decides to invade the land for the spoil (v. 12). A protest is made at this invasion (v. 13), but it is unheeded.The extent of this invasion must be learned from parallel passages, for Ezekiel omits the progress of the invasion, but, rather, describes the destruction of the invader on the mountains of Israel (39:2–4) as the result of divine intervention through a convulsion of nature (38:20–22). As a result five-sixths of the army is destroyed (39:2) and seven months are required in disposing of the dead (39:12), and seven years in disposing of the debris (39:9–10). The scene of this destruction is said to be on the mountains of Israel (39:2–4) and the time is in “the latter years” (38:8) and “the latter days” (38:16). This destruction is a sign to the nations (38:23) and to Israel (39:21–24).General Identification of the TimeIt is obvious from the details given to us in thechapters under consideration that no invasion experienced in Israel’s history is sufficient to be the fulfillment of this prophecy. There have been invasions in the past which wrought hardship on the land and the people, but none that

answer to the details presented here. This can refer only to some future event in Israel’s experience. There are a number of considerations which support this view.First, the context in the book makes a contribution. Chapter 37deals with the restoration of the nation Israel to her land. This is pictured as a gradual process, for theprophet sees the process of bone being joined to bone, tied together with sinews, clothed with skin. It is a regathering in unbelief, for the prophet observes that there was no life in the assembled carcass (v. 8). Chapter 40carries us on to the millennial age. Thus the movements of Gog and Magog are seen, in the context, to transpire between the time of the beginning of the restoration of Israel to the land and the millennial age.Second, the specific statements in the passage give clues. Twice a reference is made in chapter 38to a time element. It is said to take place “in the latter years” (v. 8) and “in the latter days” (v. 16). This has specific reference to the latter years and days of God’s dealing with the nation Israel, which, since it is before the millennial age (Ezek 40), must place it during God’s dealing with Israel in the seventieth week of Daniel’s prophecy.Third, it will be after the beginning of the restoration, for Israel is seen to be inhabiting her own land (38:11). This would indicate that it takes place after the covenant made by the “prince that shall come” of Daniel 9:27.Fourth, it will be connected with Israel’s conversion, which is obviously future, for the destruction of the invader is a sign to that nation, which opens its eyes to the Lord (39:22). Since the final removal of the nation’s blindness does not come until the second advent, this prophecy must have a definite relation tothat event.Fifth, the indication that the land will be reforested (39:10) confirms this conclusion, for Israel has always been dependent on other sources of supply for her lumber (cf. 1 Kings 5:1–10).It is concluded, then, from the passage itself, that the events herein described must take place in the future, at a time when God is again dealing with Israel as a nation.The Time in Relation to Specific EventsThe invasion described by Ezekiel has been related to nearly every major prophetic event asto its time. It is ourpurpose now to examine some of these positions in order to determine as carefully as possible just when this event will transpire.The invasion takes place prior to the rapture of the church. Such is the exposition taken by David L.Cooper, who says: “...It is utterly impossible for one to locate the fulfillment of this prediction after the Millennial Age. It cannot be placed in the beginning of the Millennium, nor at the end of the tribulation. It must, therefore, be located before the tribulation because there is no other place for it to occur since the three other suggested dates are impossible.... There will be a time between now and the beginning of the tribulation when the Jews will be dwelling in the Land in unwalled cities and will be at rest” (David L. Cooper, When Gog’s Armies Meet the Almighty, pp. 80-81).We feel that this is an impossible thesis from several considerations: First, the New Testament teaching of the imminence of the rapture makes it impossible that an event such as this must first be fulfilled.Second, the context of the prophecy itself states that this will take place “in the latter years” (v. 8) and “in the latter days” (v. 16). Since this prophecy is addressed to Israel, it must be their

years and days being referred to in the prophecy. Because Israel and the church are two distinct groups with which God is dealing, it is impossible to make Israel’s latter years apply to the latter years of the church, as it would do if this is fulfilled prior to the rapture.Third, as far as we can determine, Israel will not gain any title to the land, nor have the right to return to it, until the “prince that shall come” makes a covenant with her (Dan 9:27). Israel is said to be out of the land and Jerusalem trodden down until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled (Luke 21:24). It would be necessary, according to this theory, to maintain either that the covenant which gives Israel a false peace was made prior to the rapture or that the times of the Gentiles end at the rapture. Such is not the presentation ofthe Word.The invasion takes place at the end of the tribulation. Louis S. Bauman, after quoting Daniel 11:44–45, writes: “...Who is the foe he so furiously meets and so ferociously destroys? It cannot be Israel, for Israel is not to be destroyed and utterly swept away. Moreover, God would never ‘call a sword’ to destroy and ‘utterly sweep away’ Israel. The foe is evidently to come ‘out of the east and out of the north’—a description not of the little strip ofland known as Palestine, but a vast confederacy of nations ‘out of the east and out of the north.’ If Israel is not the foe whose activities will suddenly infuriate the Antichrist, then, pray, who may that foe be? The revelation of God reveals only one possibility—Gog and his allied hordes, for they are they who are to if all upon the mountains of Israel’ (Ezek 39:4), and to be utterly swept away into ‘the realms of Pluto’“(Bauman, op. cit., pp. 174-75). There are many Bible students who join Bauman in this interpretation of the time element. However, there seem to be difficulties in this position which makes it impossible to accept it.First, the passage in Ezekiel does not mention a battle. The destruction there is at the hand of the Lord throughthe convulsion of nature (38:20–23). Even though the sword of verse 21should be proved to be a nation, yet the Lord is seen to be the agent in this destruction rather than a destruction through a war. In the conflagration of Armageddon there is a great battle fought in which the King of kings emerges as the victor.Second, in Ezekiel the invasion is by the king of the north with his allies, which are limited in number. In Zechariah 14and Revelation 19all the nations of the earth are seen to be gathered together for the conflagration.Third, in Ezekiel the destruction takes place on the mountains of Israel (39:2–4). The events of Armageddon are said to take place at Jerusalem (Zech 12:2; 14:2), at the valley of Jehoshaphat (Joel 3:12) and Edom (Isa 63:1).Fourth, in Ezekiel Israel is said to be dwelling in herland in peace and safety (38:11). We know from Revelation 12:14–17that Israel is not going to dwell in the land in peace and safety during the latter half of the seventieth week, but will be the special target of Satan’s attack.Thus we conclude that the invasion cannot be connected with the events of Zechariah 14and Revelation 19.The invasion takes place at the beginning of the millennium. This view is presented by Arno C. Gaebelein, who says:“At what time does this invasion take place? We find the answer in the text. The statement is made in verse eight that Gog and Magog and the other nations with them invade the land ‘that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people;’ they come ‘against the mountains of Israel....’ In verse eleven the evil purpose of the invader is made

known.... From all this we learn that the invasion takes place at the time when the Lord has brought back His people and resumed His relationship withthe remnant of Israel. The invasion will happen some time after the beastly empire with its beasthead...and the false prophet, the personal Antichrist...have been dealt with in judgment.... Micah tells us: ‘And this man (Christ) shall be the peace when the Assyrian shall come into the land’ (verse 5). All this confirms the story of Ezekiel xxxviii ” (Arno C. Gaebelein, The Prophet Ezekiel, pp. 252-55).While the Scriptures cited may seem to prove the thesis stated above, we believe that there are argumentswhich prove this is an impossible explanation.First, Ezekiel tells us that the land will be defiled by reason of the dead bodies for seven months (39:12). Such a picture seems impossible in view of the cleansing to be effected by the return of the Messiah.Second, in Jeremiah 25:32–33it is stated that the Lord will destroy all the wicked of the earth at His return. This is further amplified in Revelation 19:15–18. It seems impossible to think of such a horde as described in Ezekiel escaping the destruction at His coming to rise up against Himshortly.Third, in Matthew 25:31–46all Gentiles are brought before the Judge to determine who will enter the millennium. Since no unsaved person, whether Jew or Gentile, will enter that kingdom, it is impossible to think of such an apostasy of saved persons who would fulfill the prophecy of Ezekiel.Fourth, Isaiah 9:4–5predicts the destruction of all weapons of war after the millennium begins. Where would the armies of the king of the north secure their armament in the light of Isaiah’s prediction?Fifth, Isaiah 2:1–4states that wars will cease with the advent of Christ and the institution of the millennium.Sixth, according to Revelation 20:1–3, Satan will be bound at the beginning of the millenniumand thus would not be operative to generate such a movement against Israel.Seventh, the proponents of this theory have failed to see that God is beginning to deal with the nation Israel at the beginning of the seventieth week after the translation of thechurch. That nation is being brought back into her land (Ezek 38:11; 37:1–28) although in unbelief, and to prepare that nation through discipline for the coming Messiah. Thus Micah may rightly say that “this man [Christ] shall be the peace, when theAssyrian shall come into our land” (5:5), even though these events take place before the second advent of Christ. Micah’s prophecy does not make the visible presence of Christ necessary, but does promise His protection.The invasion takes place at the end of the millennium. Those who hold to this position contend that the Gog and Magog of Ezekiel and that of Revelation 20:8are the same. This seems to be an impossibility from the following considerations:First, Ezekiel mentions only a northern coalition as being engaged in the invasion. In Revelation all the nations of the earth are gathered together.Second, in Ezekiel there is no specific mention made of the instrumentality of Satan, nor of his being bound a thousand years prior to this invasion, while both things are emphasizedin the Revelation account.

Third, the context in Ezekiel shows that this invasion is before the institution of the millennium. In Revelation the millennium has been in existence for a thousand years.Fourth, in Ezekiel the bodies of the slain require the labor of seven months to dispose of the dead (39:12). In Revelation 20:9the slain are said to be “devoured” by fire, so that no disposal is necessary.Fifth, in Ezekiel the invasion is seen to be followed by the millennium (ch. 40–48). In Revelation this movement is followed by the new heaven and the new earth. Certainly the new earth could not conceivably be corrupted by unburied corpses for seven months. Thus, these considerations make it impossible to accept this theory as to the time of the invasion.The invasion takes place at the middle of the seventieth week. We should like to present several considerations which may indicate that it is the invasion of the land of Palestine by the king of the north which setsoff the Satanic attack against the people with whom God is dealing, the nation Israel, as recorded in Revelation 12:14–17.First, the invasion takes place at a time when Israel is dwelling in her own land (Ezek 38:8). There is no indication that Israel will be entitled to occupy her own land until the time of the covenant by the “prince that shall come” of Daniel 9:27. Evidently that one, because of the authority invested in him as the head of the revived Roman Empire, seeks to settle the Arab-Israeli dispute by giving Israel the right to occupy the land. The invasion will come sometime after this covenant is confirmed.Second, the invasion takes place when Israel is dwelling in peace in the land (Ezek 38:11). Those who believe that this invasion takes place at the beginning of the millennium interpret this peace as the peace promised by the Messiah. There is nothing in the text here to indicate that this is the true Messianic peace. It rather seems to be the false peace that has been guaranteed Israel by the covenant, which iscalled “your agreement with hell” in Isaiah 28:18. Israel, as yet, is in unbelief for the nation will not be a believing nation until after the second advent of Christ. This regathering is described in Ezekiel 37and the lifeless condition of the nation is clearly indicated in verse 8. Thus we conclude from these considerations that Israel is being brought back into the land with a view to her discipline for preparation for her Messiah. Israel could not be said to be at peace at the end of the tribulation period, for the land has been destroyed by invasion (Zech 14:1–3) and the people scattered (Zech 13:8–9). Yet, the nation could be dwelling in relative peace in the land in the first half of the week. Cooper says: “It isaltogether possible that the first judgments of the tribulation may not affect Palestine so asto destroy the beauty and prosperity of the land” (David L. Cooper, op. cit., p. 84).Third, Ezekiel uses two expressions which may give an indication as to the time of this invasion. In verse 8the invasion is said to be in the “latter years” and inverse 16in the “latter days” of Israel’s history. This, of course, can have no reference to the “latter days” of the church age, for God is dealing with Israel in His divine economy at this time.There are several similar expressions used which may need clarification at this point. The term last dayis an expression which is related to the resurrection and judgment program (John 6:39–40, 44, 54; 11:24; 12:48). The term last daysis related to the time of Israel’s salvation, glorification, and blessing in the kingdom age (Isa 2:2–4; Micah 4:1–7). The term latter daysor latter yearsis related to the time prior to the “last days” or the millennial age, which would be the tribulation period. In Deuteronomy 4:27Moses predicts a scattering because of unfaithfulness but promises a restoration. In verse 30he says: “When thou art in tribulation, and

all these things are come upon thee, even in the latter days....” Here the “latter days” are linked with tribulation. In Daniel 2:28the prophet reveals “what shall be in the latter days” and then carries the king down to the final form of Gentile world power in the seventieth week. Again in Daniel 8:19, 23in discussing the “indignation” theprophet speaks of the “latter time of their kingdom.” Also in Daniel 10:14the term latter daysis used in reference to the events preceding the millennial age.It is concluded, then, since Ezekiel uses these expressions, that the events described by that prophet must take place withinthe seventieth week. Daniel 11:40seems to have reference to the same period, for the prophet places these events “at the time of the end.” This expression seems to separate the event from “the end” itself.Fourth, many of our commentators interpretDaniel 11:41with reference to the occupation of the land of Palestine by the Beast. The event which causes the Beast to move in is the invasion of Palestine from the north by the king of the north (Dan 11:40). The covenant by this power in Daniel 9:27has evidently guaranteed Israel an inviolate right to the land. Some event must be necessary to cause the Beast to abrogate his covenant. Since the covenant is said to be broken in the middle of the week (Dan 9:27) and the invasion from the north is seen to be the cause of the breaking of the covenant (Dan 11:41), we may conclude that this invasion takes place in the middle of the week.Fifth, it is recognized that the events of the last half of the week are occasioned by the casting of Satan out ofheaven (Rev 12:7–13). Evidently Satan’s first act in opposition to Israel is to move the king of the north to undertake this invasion. This is the beginning of a great campaign which begins in the middle of the week, and is continued until the destruction of Gentile powers at the return of the Lord. We might note here that the word translated “battle” in Revelation 16:14, according to Thayer’s lexicon, would better be translated “campaign,” for this signifies the movements of armies and is in contrast to an isolated battle. Our observation, then, is that God views all these movements of the armies as one great campaign which will be terminated by their destruction at the return of Christ. The campaign, if our interpretation be correct, was waged over a three-and-a-half-year period.Sixth, in Isaiah 30:31–33; 31:8–9; and Micah 5:5thisinvader from the north is called “the Assyrian.” As Assyria was a rod in the hand of the Lord previously, to punish Israel for her iniquity, so the Lord willtake up a rod again for the same purpose, and this coming scourge will bear the same name because of the identity of His mission, to chasten Israel. Isaiah 28:18speaks of the “covenant with death” and the “agreement with hell” for which God will punish Israel. This must refer to the covenant of Daniel 9:27, when Israel seeks peace from the hands of men rather than from the hand of the Lord. For this covenant, Isaiah says they will be punished “when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, thenye shall be trodden down by it.” This scourge could hardly be the occupation by the Beast, for he was a party to the covenant, but must refer to the invasion by the “Assyrian” who will be used by the Lord to chasten Israel. The destruction of the Assyrian in the passages referred to seems to parallel the destruction of the armies of Gog in Ezekiel 38–39, and they are considered parallel references. God could not punish Israel for this false covenant until after the covenant had been made. This seems to give further cause to believe that the invasion takes place in the middle of the week.Seventh, in Revelation 7:4–17we have a description of a multitude of Jews and of Gentiles who are saved during the tribulation period. One wonders, in the face of the intense persecution

against any believer, how any come to a knowledge of God in that time. In Ezekiel 38:23we find that the destruction of the armies of Gog is used as a sign to the nations and in 39:21reference is made to this same fact again. In 39:22the same event is a great sign to Israel. Since the Book of Revelation pictures many people saved during the tribulation, and not just at the end of it, and since this event of Ezekiel’s prophecy is used as a sign to bring many to the Lord, thisevent must have taken place before the end of the tribulation, and rather at some time within that period. We believe that this destruction, so obviously by the hand of the Lord, is an event used by Him to remove some of the blindness to bring many to a knowledge of the Lord.BSac—V114 #456—Oct 57—345Eighth, in Revelation 13:7the Beast is pictured as having a world-wide power. This is true at the time of his manifestation as a world ruler in the middle of the tribulation. The question arises: “How could the Beast have world-wide power if the power of the northern confederation has not been broken?” The fact that the Beast is in authority over the earth at the middle of the week lends support to the thesis that the king of the north has been destroyed.The result of this destruction would produce chaos in world conditions which would bring the nations together, as we see in Psalm 2, at which time the government is formed over which the Beast is the head. Since there could be no unity of nations as long as the king of the north is operative, this unity must be brought about after his destruction.Ninth, in Revelation 19:20we are told that the Lord will deal specifically with the Beast and the false prophet at His coming. All through the Old Testamentand continuing through the New there appear three personages who will play a part in the final drama of the “times of the Gentiles,” namely, the Beast, the false prophet, and the king of the north or the Assyrian. Each of these must be dealt with beforethe Lord can manifest His world-wide authority. There must be a reason why Revelation 19:20records only the destruction of the two mentioned. It cannot be, as previously shown, that the third continues until after the millennium begins. It cannot be that the third escapes judgment. It must be, as is our contention, that he and his armies have already been dealt with on a previous occasion.Tenth, the chronology of several important passages dealing with these events seems to support the thesis. In Isaiah 30and 31we have a description of the destruction of the king of the north. This is followed in chapters 33and 34with the destruction of all the nations, and then follows a description of the millennium in chapter 35. In the Book of Joel wefind the same chronology. In chapter 2there to the description of the invasion by the northern army (v. 20), followed by a description of the destruction of the nations in chapter 3, and then the millennium is described in 3:17–21.BSac—V114 #456—Oct 57—346In both of these passages the chronology is the same. The armies of the north are destroyed at a separate time, in a distinct movement, prior to the destruction of the armies of the nations, which will be followed by the millennium. We believe the suggested answer to the time of the events in Ezekiel 38and 39as contained in this paper is the only answer consistent with the chronology of these extended passages.ConclusionConsideration of the objections to making the events take place either at the end or beginning of the millennium, or at the end of the tribulation, or prior to the rapture, and our reasons for locating this prophecy in the middle of the week seem sufficient to establish the thesis that

Ezekiel 38and 39will be fulfilled in the middle of the tribulation period. Such a view would lead us to this chronology of events, briefly stated: (1) Israel makes a false covenant with the Beast and occupies her land in a false security (Dan 9:27; Ezek 38:8, 11). (2) Because of a desire for spoil at the expense oi an easy prey, the king of the north, satanically motivated, invades Palestine (Ezek 38:11; Joel 2:1–21; Isa 10:12; 30:31–33; 31:8–9). (3) The Beast breaks his covenant with Israel and moves into the land (Dan 11:41–45). (4) The king of the north is destroyed on the mountains of Israel (Ezek 39:1–4). (5) The land of Palestine is occupied by the armies of the Beast (Dan 11:45). (6) At this time the great coalition of nations takes place that forms one government under the Beast (Ps 2:1–3; Rev 13:7). (7) The kings of the East are brought in against the armies of the Beast (Rev 16:12), evidently as a result of the dissolution of the government of Gog. (8) When the nations of the earth are gathered together around Jerusalem (Zech 14:1–3) and the Valley of Jehoshaphat (Joel 3:2), the Lord returns to destroy all Gentile world powers so that He might rule the nations Himself. This is further described in Zechariah 12:1–9; 14:1–4; Isaiah 33:1—34:17; 63:1–6; 66:15–16; Jeremiah 25:27–33; Revelation 20:7–10.
 

Rocky Rivera

Well-Known Member
Nobody sins in a vacuum, and anti-semitism was not born without reason. It's evil, yes, but there is a reason behind it. Bear with me for a moment. I myself can imagine how anti-Semitic feelings and tensions would escalate, foment, arise, and explode here in the United States. More and more people are waking up to the fact that much of liberal demagougery is spearheaded and originates from the richest and most influential, but hypocritical Jews in the United States.

Jesus says of them in Matthew 23:4, "For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers." Case in point >> Michael Bloomberg, who though being a staunch advocate of disarmament, is protected 24/7 by big, burly men with guns. What a hypocrite! George Soros, a pilanthropist of illegal aliens and open borders has a very large and strong wall protecting his estate. Mark Zuckerberg works tirelessly to censor Christian and conservative opinions on the largest social network on the Internet, though he allows all filth of all kinds from leftist commentators. Shall I go on? Sergey Brin and Larry Page secretly manipulate Google's search engine algorithm to favor leftist (Satanic) viewpoints. This anti-semitism does not begin without good reason, and it continues to foment every day; more and more people will wake up to the machinations of these evil men and the powder keg's explosion will be directed at the so-called "chosen people". It is only the presence of God's children, the true believers, that I believe the full force of anti-semitism is held back. But the church has been neglectful of the next generation, not doing much to protect the children from this culture. Once we are gone...
 
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