Who was saved in the OT?

[Salluz]

I just finished up with Chronicles, and I've noticed that a lot of foreign countries still know who God is and claim to be about his business. The one that comes to mind is the king of Egypt when he wants to pass through. I know also that Nebuchadnezzar and Cyrus both speak highly of God. How to be saved is pretty clear cut now in the church age as just putting your faith in Jesus to save you, but do we have any indication of who was saved in the OT? Could gentiles during the circumcision age be saved without being circumcised? I don't remember having read anything about it and it has always swirled around in the back of my mind somewhere as an issue I've pondered.

 

[mattfivefour]

Salvation was ... always has been ... and is now ... the result of faith in Messiah. Before His coming that faith was in the One promised who would deliver from sin and Satan (Genesis 3:15, 49:11; the 5 offerings of Leviticus that pictured Messiah's atoning work; Isaiah 11:10, 35:5-6, 42:1-4; etc, etc etc) and was shown by participating in the Levitical offerings; and since His coming the faith was in the fact that He came, lived a perfect sinless life, died for our sins as the perfect Passover Lamb, was raised to life, and all who put their hope in Him are saved. (Acts 16:31; Romans 10:9-10; 1 Corinthians 1:21; Ephesians 2:8; Hebrews 7:25; etc, etc, etc).

 

[Forgiven1]

Rahab was listed in the "hall of faith" in Hebrews 11 & in James 2:25, so I believe gentiles could be saved in OT times.

 

[Jan51]

I may be wrong, but my understanding is that in the OT, Gentiles who believed in the God of Israel had to become part of Israel (be circumcised). Sacrifices must be offered for sin, which could only be offered at the tabernacle/temple.

 

[greg64]

I believe Lot was saved, and he came before Israel. And certainly Enoch...

We know that Christ led captivity captive and many of the dead rose when he did. I believe his sacrifice is effective for all time, not just post Calvary. But how that works specifically? I'll leave that to Him. I suspect we'll find out soon.

 

[Jan51]

Also, the OT doesn't speak of people being "saved," rather, it speaks of the righteous.

 

[Almost Heaven]

Also, the OT doesn't speak of people being "saved," rather, it speaks of the righteous.

Or being saved by faith as Abraham was.

 

[mattfivefour]

 

[DaveS]

Also, the OT doesn't speak of people being "saved," rather, it speaks of the righteous.

Interesting... and important. Here's my perspective on what you wrote.

Justification carries the concept of being declared righteous. Scripture unambiguously teaches that no one is righteous. This is important, because if the OT speaks of someone being righteous, we can determine that the righteousness spoke of is imputed.

It's a judgment, being saved, a declaration. That judgment leads to a change between the creature and the Creator.

 

[Salluz]

Going from a dispensational perspective, I have heard it said that the age of grace is simply a pause in the age of law, and that it will resume for the 7 years of the tribulation. Will tribulation believers need to be circumcised and follow the law as a manifestation of their faith in Jesus? Thinking about this question the verse popped into my head

25 Circumcision has value if you observe the law, but if you break the law, you have become as though you had not been circumcised. 26 So then, if those who are not circumcised keep the law’s requirements, will they not be regarded as though they were circumcised? 27 The one who is not circumcised physically and yet obeys the law will condemn you who, even though you have the[c] written code and circumcision, are a lawbreaker.

28 A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. 29 No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God. (Romans 2)

Does this apply in the future then to tribulation believers? And what about the dietary restrictions of the law. I know Jesus declared all foods clean in the gospel accounts and later gave Peter a vision to confirm. Does that only apply during the age of Grace? I lean towards it applying during the tribulation as well, but am open to correction if I am incorrect. Since Jesus declared foods clean before his death and resurrection, that was still during the age of Law, right? Interested to hear more.

 

[DaveS]

Good morning Salluz,

Going from a dispensational perspective, I have heard it said that the age of grace is simply a pause in the age of law, and that it will resume for the 7 years of the tribulation. Will tribulation believers need to be circumcised and follow the law as a manifestation of their faith in Jesus?

Does this apply in the future then to tribulation believers? And what about the dietary restrictions of the law. I know Jesus declared all foods clean in the gospel accounts and later gave Peter a vision to confirm. Does that only apply during the age of Grace? I lean towards it applying during the tribulation as well, but am open to correction if I am incorrect. Since Jesus declared foods clean before his death and resurrection, that was still during the age of Law, right? Interested to hear more.

Since you're interested in hearing more... My perspective (and considered a normative dispensational perspective).

No. The Law (as in the Mosaic Law) served a specific purpose for a specific time period (Gal. 3:19). With the coming of the Messiah there came a changing of the Priesthood (Heb. 4:14-16; 7:11-17), and in order for there to be a new priesthood, the old priesthood had to be disannulled (Heb. 7:18).

So far as circumcision goes... it is part of the Abrahamic Covenant and is therefore obligatory for Jewish people (which is part of the reason why Paul could circumcise Timothy [Acts 16:3) without contradicting himself [Gal. 5:2] ). It is not obligatory for gentiles under that Covenant, and even if a case could be made that it was obligatory under the Mosaic Law, it can be shown decisively that the Mosaic Law has been canceled.

Hope this helps,
Dave

 

[greg64]

Going from a dispensational perspective, I have heard it said that the age of grace is simply a pause in the age of law, and that it will resume for the 7 years of the tribulation. Will tribulation believers need to be circumcised and follow the law as a manifestation of their faith in Jesus?

I agree with DaveS on this -- I don't see it happening that way. Salvation (past, present, future) is always through grace and faith alone -- no works will get the job done (or ever have). After the Rapture, though, I do believe one thing will change -- The Holy Spirit will no longer indwell believers as He has done throughout the church age. I believe He'll still be active on the Earth during this time, but not in the restraining/indwelling role.

What was the purpose of the law? From where I sit, at least two things: to point the way to Christ and to prove we can't do it on our own. When the Rapture happens, I'm don't so much think it's an end to the age of grace as it is to the church age. By the end of those seven horrible years, all that remains of Israel will be saved, and a seeming return to the law to finish out the last week of years may have a part to play in that. Increasingly, I'm convinced that Ezekiel 38-39 will get Israel back to taking God seriously, but on their terms. They'll eventually accept the wrong savior and will realize that suddenly when the antichrist makes his temple declaration. Then sudden flight to the wilderness and turning their hearts to their true lord.

Back to the Old Testament saints... over the weekend I had a few scriptures coming to mind on this topic so thought I'd throw them out there:

Luke 23:43 -- Jesus telling the thief he would be with Him in Paradise that very day

John 20:17 -- After resurrection, Jesus telling Mary Magdalene not to cling to Him because He had not yet ascended to the Father.

Matthew 27:52-53 -- tombs opened and bodies of saints raised sometime after Jesus' death.

Ephesians 4:8 -- When He ascended, Christ led captivity captive.

From the above, clearly Paradise is not the same as Heaven or Christ is contradicting Himself. Put it together and I think Dr. Fructhenbaum nailed what happened after Jesus died -- He descended to Paradise/Abraham's Bosom (the good part of the underworld -- waiting place for OT saints), revealed Himself to those waiting there, and cleaned the place out on His way up. Some speculate he also visited a place of imprisonment for rebellious former angels and pronounced their doom... certainly possible I guess, but above is what I actually find in scripture -- does anyone have more or a different take on it?