Who are the 144,000?

dreamermind

Well-Known Member
From what I understand these people are saints that will be saved after the rapture, are men only as in Revelation 7:3 “They will be presented to God as the firstfruits of the Great Tribulation. They will not be defiled with women and they will travel with Jesus wherever he goes”. And will suffer greatly in the great tribulation. So it cannot be anyone who goes in the rapture?
 

borrowedtime

Well-Known Member
It can’t be anyone who’s gone in the rapture.

The Rapture is the Body of Christ which knows neither Jew nor Gentile.

Revelation is focused on Israel/Jews as apart of Daniels 70 weeks of 7 prophecy.

Revelation 7:4-8 specifically names them as from the specific tribes of Israel as well. They are Jews.

Who they are varies. There is one theory that they could be babies born when Jesus was being hunted by Harold.

Matthew 2:18 says a prophesy is fulfilled during the baby slaughter.

Here is the direct Jeremiah Matthew is referencing.

“Thus saith the Lord; A voice was heard in Ramah, lamentation, and bitter weeping; Rachel weeping for her children refused to be comforted for her children, because they were not. Thus saith the Lord; Refrain thy voice from weeping, and thine eyes from tears: for thy work shall be rewarded, saith the Lord; and they shall come again from the land of the enemy. And there is hope in thine end, saith the Lord, that thy children shall come again to their own border.”
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭31:15-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Speculation but it’s the most compelling argument I’ve read.
 
From what I understand these people are saints that will be saved after the rapture, are men only as in Revelation 7:3 “They will be presented to God as the firstfruits of the Great Tribulation. They will not be defiled with women and they will travel with Jesus wherever he goes”. And will suffer greatly in the great tribulation. So it cannot be anyone who goes in the rapture?
No, it can't. For them to be chosen, they are here after the beginning of the Tribulation. Scripture is clear on who these folks are: they are from each of the 12 tribes of Israel:

"After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth, so that no wind would blow on the earth or on the sea or on any tree. And I saw another angel ascending from the rising of the sun, having the seal of the living God; and he cried out with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea, saying, “Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees until we have sealed the bond-servants of our God on their foreheads." And I heard the number of those who were sealed, one hundred and forty-four thousand sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel: from the tribe of Judah, twelve thousand were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand, from the tribe of Gad twelve thousand, from the tribe of Asher twelve thousand, from the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand, from the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand, from the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand, from the tribe of Levi twelve thousand, from the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand, from the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand, from the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand, from the tribe of Benjamin, twelve thousand were sealed." (Revelation 7:1-8, NASB, emphasis mine)

They are mentioned again in Chapter 14:

" Then I looked, and behold, the Lamb was standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His name and the name of His Father written on their foreheads. And I heard a voice from heaven, like the sound of many waters and like the sound of loud thunder, and the voice which I heard was like the sound of harpists playing on their harps. And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders; and no one could learn the song except the one hundred and forty-four thousand who had been purchased from the earth. These are the ones who have not been defiled with women, for they have kept themselves chaste. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These have been purchased from among men as first fruits to God and to the Lamb. And no lie was found in their mouth; they are blameless." (Revelation 14:1-5, NASB, emphasis mine)

Revelation Chapter 13 states: "It was also given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them, and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him. All who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain. If anyone has an ear, let him hear. If anyone is destined for captivity, to captivity he goes; if anyone kills with the sword, with the sword he must be killed. Here is the perseverance and the faith of the saints." (Revelation 13: 8-10, NASB, emphasis mine)

Seeing as that passage precedes John's vision of the 144,000 with Christ on Mount Zion, it's then reasonable to conclude from Scripture that they have died at the hands of the beast, and are now the Lord's personal "entourage", in a manner of speaking. This is their reward (amongst others) for being so faithful from the time of their sealing, all the way until their death at the hands of the Beast.
 

dreamermind

Well-Known Member
No, it can't. For them to be chosen, they are here after the beginning of the Tribulation. Scripture is clear on who these folks are: they are from each of the 12 tribes of Israel:

"After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth, so that no wind would blow on the earth or on the sea or on any tree. And I saw another angel ascending from the rising of the sun, having the seal of the living God; and he cried out with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea, saying, “Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees until we have sealed the bond-servants of our God on their foreheads." And I heard the number of those who were sealed, one hundred and forty-four thousand sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel: from the tribe of Judah, twelve thousand were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand, from the tribe of Gad twelve thousand, from the tribe of Asher twelve thousand, from the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand, from the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand, from the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand, from the tribe of Levi twelve thousand, from the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand, from the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand, from the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand, from the tribe of Benjamin, twelve thousand were sealed." (Revelation 7:1-8, NASB, emphasis mine)

They are mentioned again in Chapter 14:

" Then I looked, and behold, the Lamb was standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His name and the name of His Father written on their foreheads. And I heard a voice from heaven, like the sound of many waters and like the sound of loud thunder, and the voice which I heard was like the sound of harpists playing on their harps. And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders; and no one could learn the song except the one hundred and forty-four thousand who had been purchased from the earth. These are the ones who have not been defiled with women, for they have kept themselves chaste. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These have been purchased from among men as first fruits to God and to the Lamb. And no lie was found in their mouth; they are blameless." (Revelation 14:1-5, NASB, emphasis mine)

Revelation Chapter 13 states: "It was also given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them, and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him. All who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain. If anyone has an ear, let him hear. If anyone is destined for captivity, to captivity he goes; if anyone kills with the sword, with the sword he must be killed. Here is the perseverance and the faith of the saints." (Revelation 13: 8-10, NASB, emphasis mine)

Seeing as that passage precedes John's vision of the 144,000 with Christ on Mount Zion, it's then reasonable to conclude from Scripture that they have died at the hands of the beast, and are now the Lord's personal "entourage", in a manner of speaking. This is their reward (amongst others) for being so faithful from the time of their sealing, all the way until their death at the hands of the Beast.
Thank you for this. I am seeking a way to explain to my Jewish mother, who was told by a pastor that she is one of the 144,000. She said it was the best day of her life when he told her this. :(
 

dreamermind

Well-Known Member
A "pastor" told her this?!!

EVERYONE would be better off being the Bride.
Yeah. She’s a far far lefty liberal. So the “pastor” basically told her she is a saint. :confused: She believes it and treats everyone else as if they are below her. I’ve tried to tell her it’s all wrong and to read the scriptures but she doesn’t care. She says I don’t know her heart. I have no relationship with her now. I can’t deal with it. She’s an awful human being and her saying this really just is gross. This was the best day of her life, NOT getting saved.:confused:
 

Batman

Well-Known Member
Yes. I believe the Bible shows that the 144,000 are 12,000 from each tribe.........but perhaps 1 or 2 original sons (tribe leaders) of Jacob are out and sons of Joseph are in..........unless that's some other prophetic land or title changes I'm thinking of.
 
Yeah. She’s a far far lefty liberal. So the “pastor” basically told her she is a saint. :confused: She believes it and treats everyone else as if they are below her. I’ve tried to tell her it’s all wrong and to read the scriptures but she doesn’t care. She says I don’t know her heart. I have no relationship with her now. I can’t deal with it. She’s an awful human being and her saying this really just is gross. This was the best day of her life, NOT getting saved.:confused:
Then ask her what the Lord plans to do with the rest of the saved beyond the 144,000? Stuff them in a closet behind His throne and dust them off twice a year? o_O
 

dreamermind

Well-Known Member
Then ask her what the Lord plans to do with the rest of the saved beyond the 144,000? Stuff them in a closet behind His throne and dust them off twice a year? o_O
I really don’t ask her anything anymore. She is toxic to me. Her posts on Facebook were full of hate and wishing death on Trump supporters, and then scroll down and she’s claiming she loves Jesus. I pray for her, I plead God to open her eyes, but for now I have to stay away.
 

Hidden

Well-Known Member
Maybe the likes of Ben Shapiro who are conservatives but do not know the Lord at the moment would turn out to be among these witnesses. Recently, Dave Rubin said that he is no longer an atheist and thinks that there must be a God out there. Interesting in light of the fact that maybe God is already working in the hearts of the 144,000 as we speak.
 

mikhen7

Freed By Christ to Serve Christ
Great discussion: Andy Woods adds,

In Revelation 7:4–8, we learn of how God will use 144,000 Jews to evangelize the world during the Tribulation (Rev. 7:9–17). Here, we are specifically told that 12,000 Jewish evangelists will come from each of these twelve tribes. In Revelation 14:4, these Jewish evangelists are called the “first fruits.” In Israel’s harvest cycle, the first fruits of the harvest guaranteed that the general harvest would also come in. In the same way, the conversion of these 144,000 Jews guarantees that the rest of the Jewish remnant will also be converted (Zech. 12:10; 13:8–9).-- Andrew M. Woods, The Coming Kingdom, n.d.​

I believe the Scripture teaches the 144k will be sealed by God at the beginning of the seven year tribulation. As a matter of opinion, I feel these are being prepped as we speak. Although not yet believers in Christ, I believe they are youth and not so set in their ways as the seasoned orthodox Jews are--that they are open to what is being sounded around the world twenty-four hours a day concerning salvation through Jesus our Lord.

Their unique ethnicity as Jews from Jewish families keeps them at bay from becoming believers prior to the tribulation, thus they are not part of the church. But when the Rapture occurs they will be illuminated and sealed by God through their professions of faith. These carry out their evangelistic purposes and millions are converted because of their ministry and testimony. They are the first-fruits of the believing remnant of Jews who turn to Christ in totality at the end of the tribulation. I do not think they will be martyred but that they will enter into the Kingdom along with the believing remnant of Jews who turn to Christ at His appearing, ((Zech. 12:10; 13:8–9). I believe the seal of God in their foreheads is God's proof of protection around them throughout the tribulation period. In Rev. 14 they are seen with Jesus standing on Mt. Zion (Rev.14:1) God's Holy Mountain, (see Isa. 2:1-4). And from the heavenly throne room a voice comes form heaven in song and praise. The 144k hear it and understand it and sing with it.

Revelation 14:1–5 (NKJV)

14 Then I looked, and behold, a Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His Father’s name written on their foreheads. (Christ is reigning from Jerusalem in the Millennial Kingdom)

What follows is the song of praise the 144k learn
2 And I heard a voice from heaven, like the voice of many waters, and like the voice of loud thunder. And I heard the sound of harpists playing their harps. 3 They sang as it were a new song before the throne, before the four living creatures, and the elders; and no one could learn that song except the hundred and forty-four thousand who were redeemed from the earth.

Description of the 144k - (One of the reasons I believe they are young, either teens or young adults)
4 These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, being firstfruits to God and to the Lamb. 5 And in their mouth was found no deceit, for they are without fault before the throne of God.
 
Top