Which gospel?

BrotherKev

Servant
I've been watching a teacher named Les Feldick that has made a very compelling point that the 'gospel of the kingdom' and the 'gospel of the grace of God' as taught by Paul are for today's believers.

I'm also doing some reading at doctrine.org and the teachings are similar.

What's getting me is that both sources make a whole lot more sense than what I've been hearing in churches this past 50 yrs. I've learned that my place in this dispensation is to believe the Jesus Christ was crucified as atonement for my sins, he was buried and rose from the grave on the third day, all according to scripture.

It's my understanding that John the Baptist, Jesus and the 12 all taught the 'gospel of the kingdom' was repent and be baptized. The aforementioned taught their message to Jewish congregations, and only Jews with the exceptions of the Samaritan woman and the Roman centurion. After the Ascension and Israels final rejection of Messiah, the 'gospel of the kingdom' was no longer the plan. This is when God called Paul to become the apostle to the gentiles. (This is important to me since I'm definitely a gentile.) The message that Paul taught was the 'gospel of the grace of God' and that as the apostle to the gentiles, the gentiles were his ultimate audience and that if I just believe the message of the cross, I'd be saved. Saved from the wrath to come, and eternal separation from God.

From what I understand of the 'Jerusalem Council' where Peter and Paul discussed the message, the Peter agreed that Paul's message was appropriate for both Jews and Gentiles until the Lord returns.

Also as part of this message was that I had sacrificed my life and my old ways to become a new creature.
I picture it this way in my head; when I accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior my spirit went to be seated with Christ Jesus in the heavenly places to await my glorified body. The body that I left behind was indwelt with the Holy Spirit to share the gospel with the world.

This is how I put things together from ALL the sources that I have found over these last several years, starting with the KJV. Can you also see how this works?
 

jonshaff

Fellow Servant
I've been watching a teacher named Les Feldick that has made a very compelling point that the 'gospel of the kingdom' and the 'gospel of the grace of God' as taught by Paul are for today's believers.

I'm also doing some reading at doctrine.org and the teachings are similar.

What's getting me is that both sources make a whole lot more sense than what I've been hearing in churches this past 50 yrs. I've learned that my place in this dispensation is to believe the Jesus Christ was crucified as atonement for my sins, he was buried and rose from the grave on the third day, all according to scripture.

It's my understanding that John the Baptist, Jesus and the 12 all taught the 'gospel of the kingdom' was repent and be baptized. The aforementioned taught their message to Jewish congregations, and only Jews with the exceptions of the Samaritan woman and the Roman centurion. After the Ascension and Israels final rejection of Messiah, the 'gospel of the kingdom' was no longer the plan. This is when God called Paul to become the apostle to the gentiles. (This is important to me since I'm definitely a gentile.) The message that Paul taught was the 'gospel of the grace of God' and that as the apostle to the gentiles, the gentiles were his ultimate audience and that if I just believe the message of the cross, I'd be saved. Saved from the wrath to come, and eternal separation from God.

From what I understand of the 'Jerusalem Council' where Peter and Paul discussed the message, the Peter agreed that Paul's message was appropriate for both Jews and Gentiles until the Lord returns.

Also as part of this message was that I had sacrificed my life and my old ways to become a new creature.
I picture it this way in my head; when I accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior my spirit went to be seated with Christ Jesus in the heavenly places to await my glorified body. The body that I left behind was indwelt with the Holy Spirit to share the gospel with the world.

This is how I put things together from ALL the sources that I have found over these last several years, starting with the KJV. Can you also see how this works?
Brother I pray you keep digging. There isn't two (2) Gospels, there is only One (1).

1 Corinthians 1:14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;

Paul was doing and teaching everything Christ was.

And if you read Acts carefully, Paul never stopped preaching to the Jews

Also, your spirit is still in your body. Paul is using literary devices and speaking in future tenses to describe how GOD sees us...especially in Ephesians. Our spirit remains in us until death or rapture.

:hat:
 

ReadyforSupper

Well-Known Member
Brother Kev...WINTER HAVEN????? (I lived in Lake Wales for 25 years!) How cool is that?

(Les Feldick loves the Lord with all his heart...truly he does, but he teeters on the edge of hyper dispensationalism. It was the same gospel presented two different ways, as there were 2 different mindsets...first to the Jew then to the Gentile. My mother is a bit caught up in LF but she's saved and she doesn't teach, so she's okay, lol)
 

jonshaff

Fellow Servant
Acts 8:26-38 And the angel of the Lord spake unto Philip, saying, Arise, and go toward the south unto the way that goeth down from Jerusalem unto Gaza, which is desert.
And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship,
Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet.
Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.
And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:
In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.
And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?
Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
 

jonshaff

Fellow Servant
2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
 

jonshaff

Fellow Servant
John 12:20-28 And there were certain Greeks among them that came up to worship at the feast:
The same came therefore to Philip, which was of Bethsaida of Galilee, and desired him, saying, Sir, we would see Jesus.
Philip cometh and telleth Andrew: and again Andrew and Philip tell Jesus.
And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified.
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.
If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.
Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour.
Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.


Brother kev, that website you posted is full of lies and half truths.

All the scripture I just posted in one way or another refutes most of the claims on that website.
 

iSong6:3

Well-Known Member
(Les Feldick loves the Lord with all his heart...truly he does, but he teeters on the edge of hyper dispensationalism. It was the same gospel presented two different ways, as there were 2 different mindsets...first to the Jew then to the Gentile. My mother is a bit caught up in LF but she's saved and she doesn't teach, so she's okay, lol)

He's not teetering, he fell in. :((
 

jonshaff

Fellow Servant
Acts 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

Acts 2:37-38 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 3:26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.


Acts 4:10, 12 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.


Acts 5:30, 33 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
When they heard that, they were cut to the heart, and took counsel to slay them.


It's always been about grace faith and Jesus
 

ReadyforSupper

Well-Known Member
He's not teetering, he fell in. :((

That's so sad to hear. He's got a really large following. I suppose that humans always have to "improve" upon what the Lord has spoken. I've tried to listen to him, but he's...boring.

When the entire message is "one", why do the feel they must separate it? John Hagee did that too and now proclaims that "it's a pure waste of time to witness to a Jew because they're bound under the Abrahamic Covenant". (He seemed to miss "First to the Jew then to the Gentile...maybe his talit got in the way:rolleyes )
 

iSong6:3

Well-Known Member
That's so sad to hear. He's got a really large following. I suppose that humans always have to "improve" upon what the Lord has spoken. I've tried to listen to him, but he's...boring.

When the entire message is "one", why do the feel they must separate it? John Hagee did that too and now proclaims that "it's a pure waste of time to witness to a Jew because they're bound under the Abrahamic Covenant". (He seemed to miss "First to the Jew then to the Gentile...maybe his talit got in the way:rolleyes )

:hehheh


Yeah, I'm not sure what drives anyone to continue in error. Maybe the satanic end result is just what Hagee said - to deprive Jews of the Gospel. Teachers, especially, need to be very very careful.
 

mattfivefour

Well-Known Member
There is one gospel and it has not changed since God's provision when Adam and Eve fell. Whether the participants understood the significance of altars and sacrifices at all is immaterial. Each instance of a person building an altar and offering a sacrifice to God, each commandment to build such an altar and to offer such a sacrifice, was in accordance with God's eternal (1 Peter 1:20; Ephesians 1:4b) plan— the sin of one imputed to another, the righteousness of one remitted in return. That it was by faith is shown in that Abraham was reckoned righteous by God 430 years before the law was given through Moses. The Jews existed in Abraham's loins, through Isaac, and God's eternal plan was not changed by the law when it came. It did not supplant grace and faith, it merely showed man God's standard which it was impossible for him to meet. Had it been possible for man to keep God's law, there would have been no more need for sacrifice; but that the sacrifices, bloody and terrible and unending, existed for more than a thousand years showed that man needed those sacrifices.

In parallel with the sacrificial system, we have the law which occasioned its necessity and the prophets which proclaimed it. The Law taught Christ and Him crucified and the necessity of faith and obedience to His provision, and the various prophets spoke words of warning—sometimes plain, sometimes veiled—and of wisdom to Israel, all revealing in some way aspects of God's eternal plan of salvation and restoration of all things to Himself in Christ. It is like a paint-by-numbers set in which bit by bit, color by color, the entire picture is revealed. When complete, man and nature shall walk again before Him—indeed WITH Him—in the perfection that was found in the Garden, before the Fall.

There is thus, plainly, one plan. And one plan requires one gospel. There is not one for the Jews and another for the Gentiles. There is one for all. God the Holy Spirit makes this abundantly clear to us through Galatians 3:6-29 and Romans 7:1-6. Those who try to divide God and His eternal Plan up fail to discern the picture conveyed in the entire narrative arc of the Bible. They are seeing the pieces, not the perfect. Dispensationalism is a tool to help us to understand God's dealings at various times. But it is a TOOL. Man created it in order to understand the pieces of the puzzle. But when we take a technique by which to help understand truth and transfer it to be the totality of that truth, we actual supplant the truth with error. This is why the hyper-dispensationalists are wrong. And why their teaching MUST be avoided.

I believe in the usefulness of dispensational thinking. I continually use the concept of dispensations myself. But I do not like to refer to myself as a dispensationalist; because if I do so, I join with all those who thereby appear to be proclaiming a dogma, a doctrine of belief. It is not. It is merely a conceptual framework to aid in understanding how God works. It is a means to understand the message, not the message itself. Christians place before themselves a great hazard to their understanding of the gospel when they hold to dispensationalism as a doctrine. Use dispensationalism by all means to help understand aspects of God's dealings with man. But never lose sight of the truth of the entire picture. God has not, does not, will not change. His plan was created before the foundations of the world were laid. In His infinite wisdom He conceived that plan and is bringing it to pass exactly as He desired from the beginning. Nothing has changed it; nothing will. There is no kingdom this or kingdom that, kingdom here or kingdom there. God has but ONE Kingdom and ultimately it will include ALL who call in truth upon Him through His Christ. Let's not divide asunder what God has made to be one.
 

jonshaff

Fellow Servant
There is one gospel and it has not changed since God's provision when Adam and Eve fell. Whether the participants understood the significance of altars and sacrifices at all is immaterial. Each instance of a person building an altar and offering a sacrifice to God, each commandment to build such an altar and to offer such a sacrifice, was in accordance with God's eternal (1 Peter 1:20; Ephesians 1:4b) plan— the sin of one imputed to another, the righteousness of one remitted in return. That it was by faith is shown in that Abraham was reckoned righteous by God 430 years before the law was given through Moses. The Jews existed in Abraham's loins, through Isaac, and God's eternal plan was not changed by the law when it came. It did not supplant grace and faith, it merely showed man God's standard which it was impossible for him to meet. Had it been possible for man to keep God's law, there would have been no more need for sacrifice; but that the sacrifices, bloody and terrible and unending, existed for more than a thousand years showed that man needed those sacrifices.

In parallel with the sacrificial system, we have the law which occasioned its necessity and the prophets which proclaimed it. The Law taught Christ and Him crucified and the necessity of faith and obedience to His provision, and the various prophets spoke words of warning—sometimes plain, sometimes veiled—and of wisdom to Israel, all revealing in some way aspects of God's eternal plan of salvation and restoration of all things to Himself in Christ. It is like a paint-by-numbers set in which bit by bit, color by color, the entire picture is revealed. When complete, man and nature shall walk again before Him—indeed WITH Him—in the perfection that was found in the Garden, before the Fall.

There is thus, plainly, one plan. And one plan requires one gospel. There is not one for the Jews and another for the Gentiles. There is one for all. God the Holy Spirit makes this abundantly clear to us through Galatians 3:6-29 and Romans 7:1-6. Those who try to divide God and His eternal Plan up fail to discern the picture conveyed in the entire narrative arc of the Bible. They are seeing the pieces, not the perfect. Dispensationalism is a tool to help us to understand God's dealings at various times. But it is a TOOL. Man created it in order to understand the pieces of the puzzle. But when we take a technique by which to help understand truth and transfer it to be the totality of that truth, we actual supplant the truth with error. This is why the hyper-dispensationalists are wrong. And why their teaching MUST be avoided.

I believe in the usefulness of dispensational thinking. I continually use the concept of dispensations myself. But I do not like to refer to myself as a dispensationalist; because if I do so, I join with all those who thereby appear to be proclaiming a dogma, a doctrine of belief. It is not. It is merely a conceptual framework to aid in understanding how God works. It is a means to understand the message, not the message itself. Christians place before themselves a great hazard to their understanding of the gospel when they hold to dispensationalism as a doctrine. Use dispensationalism by all means to help understand aspects of God's dealings with man. But never lose sight of the truth of the entire picture. God has not, does not, will not change. His plan was created before the foundations of the world were laid. In His infinite wisdom He conceived that plan and is bringing it to pass exactly as He desired from the beginning. Nothing has changed it; nothing will. There is no kingdom this or kingdom that, kingdom here or kingdom there. God has but ONE Kingdom and ultimately it will include ALL who call in truth upon Him through His Christ. Let's not divide asunder what God has made to be one.
:thumbup outstanding! Great insight!

The "Age of Grace" is a bit of a misnomer as salvation has ALWAYS been About God's grace...always will be.
 

Neohistory

Member
I wanted to start this thread as I searched for a particular name, and didn't see it. This is a man whom I really enjoy listening to, speaking about the Bible, and reading in it. His name is Les Feldick, and I wanted to share the huge playlist I found on youtube (I plan on donating to him as well, although, the provider of the playlist is not Les himself.) If there are other youtube videos, please share here (or links to online sermons from churches.) He is a believer in the pre trib rapture, which I believe we all understand that to be the truth. I feel this is a great teaching resource, and I find him very interesting.

[Link removed]
 
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Neohistory

Member
Feldick's teachings aren't permitted on the board for several reasons, for example, his teaching that there are two gospels and hyperdispensationalism. I have posted a link to a rebuttal of Feldick's teachings below...
http://cicministry.org/commentary/issue108.htm
Had I not posted that, I might have not ever known this. I will research about this. Thank you for informing me
 

Tall Timbers

Imperfect but forgiven
Which Gospel? So, IF I "post my OWN Scriptural study" of God's TWO Different gospels Rightly Divided, it will "get deleted" {Not very Encouraging...} because someone "labels it" as hyperdispensationalism?

Can you consolidate what you're sharing into something short and concise? your post, as presented, is greek to me.
 

mattfivefour

Well-Known Member
Salvation is by “faith + works” = believe AND be water baptized
No, my friend, it is not. Salvation is by faith alone in Christ's finished work alone ... according to God's Holy Scriptures alone. Man has no more part in it than did man in the Abrahamic covenant, which pictured the new covenant of righteousness by faith in Christ. God alone walked between the halves of the sacrifice, because God alone could keep it. Abraham had only to accept what God did. Scripture makes clear that we have only to accept what Christ did. When we do, God the Holy Spirit seals us, installs us, and begins the processes of confirming it's to the image of Christ.
 

Tall Timbers

Imperfect but forgiven
Grace And Peace to you, Tall Timbers. I apologize for posting "greek scholarship" :)
Hope this is Biblically "short and concise" - Be Blessed:

Thank you, your GRACE!

Salvation is by “faith + works” = believe AND be water baptized...

With regards to the 2nd quote, how do you reconcile that with the thief on the cross who was not baptized before entering paradise?

For the latter part of the 2nd post, the format still confuses me... but that's okay. Maybe somebody else can follow what yer saying.
 
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