Where does believing faith come from?

[Benefactor]

The order of salvation is a constant topic in Christian circles and now that the internet is here we can see the fruit of this ongoing discussion, debate and sometimes free for all concerning this topic.

Paul tells us that faith comes from hearing. A simple statement that a child can understand, but reform theology and many Calvinist insist that faith is a special miraculous infusion that man experiences after he is regenerated or caused to be born from above.

This of course is not to be found anywhere in the Scripture.

Faith is trust in God's word pure and simple

 

[myinnuendo999]

Biblical Faith is a gift from God-Ephesians 2:8. A gift is unearned and undeserved.

I think that we should ask the question- why does God require faith..

God clearly says we are saved by FAITH by receiving something OUTSIDE ourselves-Ephesians 2:8. Faith is a gift-Eph.2:8. Grace is tied to FAITH in the receiving and not by love or repentance because that would cheapen GOD"S Grace and say that WE had something to do with earning it. If receiving grace from God were tied to love, or repentance it would convey to us the "idea" that there is something good in us being the consideration on which the blessing was given to us. In other words, that would say we EARNED IT. But justification by FAITH conveys no such "idea".

So, what sets faith apart from love and other virtues of the heart is that it is not earned and has nothing to do with us at all but is received outside of us. What does faith receive in order to be saving faith? The Free, unearned, unmerited, undeserved GIFT of God--we must receive Jesus

Faith is tied to Grace and God GIVES the Gift to us which is a miracle--Keep in mind faith being tied to GRACE is a GIFT. How does one receive that Gift? When God GRANTS you the FAITH to even believe through his word

 

[Benefactor]

Biblical Faith is a gift from God-Ephesians 2:8. A gift is unearned and undeserved.

I think that we should ask the question- why does God require faith..

God clearly says we are saved by FAITH by receiving something OUTSIDE ourselves-Ephesians 2:8. Faith is a gift-Eph.2:8. Grace is tied to FAITH in the receiving and not by love or repentance because that would cheapen GOD"S Grace and say that WE had something to do with earning it. If receiving grace from God were tied to love, or repentance it would convey to us the "idea" that there is something good in us being the consideration on which the blessing was given to us. In other words, that would say we EARNED IT. But justification by FAITH conveys no such "idea".

So, what sets faith apart from love and other virtues of the heart is that it is not earned and has nothing to do with us at all but is received outside of us. What does faith receive in order to be saving faith? The Free, unearned, unmerited, undeserved GIFT of God--we must receive Jesus

Faith is tied to Grace and God GIVES the Gift to us which is a miracle--Keep in mind faith being tied to GRACE is a GIFT. How does one receive that Gift? When God GRANTS you the FAITH to even believe through his word

So you deny that faith comes from hearing the gospel prior to salvation which is regeneration.

 

[Keith]

I think God gives you the faith you have to believe the gospel when you first hear it.

I believe also that same faith you use to get saved is the same kind of faith you use to believe God for other things/gifts from him.

 

[Benefactor]

I think God gives you the faith you have to believe the gospel when you first hear it.

I believe also that same faith you use to get saved is the same kind of faith you use to believe God for other things/gifts from him.

Where did you get the faith that you have prior to hearing anything about God?

All the things you believe in "have faith in" that are not related to Scripture - where does this faith come from?

The scripture tells us or answers the question about believing faith - "Faith comes from hearing the word of God."

But what does this mean? Is it saying God zapped us with faith or is it saying that the content of the message is the object of faith?

Why and how do you have confidence in anything? You somehow some way through input (information) perhaps experience too cognitively understand that the object or information is trust worthy and then you rest in it, you believe.

As humans we have the capacity to trust in what we hear, read, experience etc. If we hear the gospel we are responsible for the content of it.

So the bottom line is this:

The Scripture clearly tells us where faith comes from "from hearing the word".

What constitutes faith? What is faith? What does the Scripture tell us faith is? What are examples of transference of faith in the Scripture?

The Calvinist would have us believe that it is a supernatural infused gift, but this is not taught in Scripture. The gift of faith in I Cor. is a "Charismatic" or "spiritual" gift not a "dora" gift, they are two different words. Believing faith is never no never not ever anywhere in the Scripture called a "DORA" unless we twist the meaning of words and structure of the language to force it to say what it does not say.

The gift in the process is "salvation" "eternal life” which is made possible by God's grace.

Hebrews 11 :1 Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. 2For by it the men of old gained approval.

We do not have to guess what believing faith is or where it came from if we simply believe this verse.

What is faith? 1) the assurance of things hoped for, 2) the conviction of things not seen

How do we know this? Through the word (Faith comes from what? Hearing the word.)

The scripture makes some claims: It tells us that Jesus died for our sin and why. It tells us that we are in need of Him and His forgiveness. All this is content, data, information. The dynamic that is unique is our God likeness, being created in the image of God, thus having the capacity to think and rationalized and consider and ponder and wonder etc. Faith is what? The assurance of something - "things hoped for" and what might be the things that are hoped for? The promises of the data that we heard in the Gospel and the teaching of the word concerning the blessings we will receive. We are hopping in something that we are told. This is faith that comes from information upon which we are, regardless, going to make a decision on. When we hear the gospel we reject or disbelieve or receive / believe it.

I will just stick with what is clearly understood from the simple language of the Scripture. No need to put any spin on it.

What is faith? Hebrews 11:1

Where did it come from? Romans 10:17

 

[Keith]

Yes you're right.

 

[LdyinChrist]

Benefactor you said:

Why and how do you have confidence in anything? You somehow some way through input (information) perhaps experience too cognitively understand that the object or information is trust worthy and then you rest in it, you believe.

As humans we have the capacity to trust in what we hear, read, experience etc. If we hear the gospel we are responsible for the content of it.

The problem is

1Corinthians 2: 14

14But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

It is impossible for a person who is dead to the things of God, to undersand and have faith in them... they are completely foolish to him.

He must be born again!

The scripture makes some claims: It tells us that Jesus died for our sin and why. It tells us that we are in need of Him and His forgiveness. All this is content, data, information. The dynamic that is unique is our God likeness, being created in the image of God, thus having the capacity to think and rationalized and consider and ponder and wonder etc. Faith is what? The assurance of something - "things hoped for" and what might be the things that are hoped for? The promises of the data that we heard in the Gospel and the teaching of the word concerning the blessings we will receive. We are hopping in something that we are told. This is faith that comes from information upon which we are, regardless, going to make a decision on. When we hear the gospel we reject or disbelieve or receive / believe it.

When Adam sinned, mankind was severely marred as the “image” of God. His desire was to run and hide from God, not seek God.

The “heart” is the seat of “desires” within man. What a man "believes" comes from his heart and is seen by his actions.

Jeremiah 17:9 says

9The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Unrighteousness is incapable of choosing anything other than unrighteousness.

Mankind needed a new nature…he needed the very righteousness of God…

Every dispensation proves that mankind is incapable of choosing God.

We have no choice but to sin because of our fallen nature.

We have no desire to follow or obey God because of our unrighteous state.

The heart must be changed…and only God can do that.

 

[Benefactor]

Benefactor you said:





The problem is

1Corinthians 2: 14

14But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

It is impossible for a person who is dead to the things of God, to undersand and have faith in them... they are completely foolish to him.

He must be born again!



When Adam sinned, mankind was severely marred as the “image” of God. His desire was to run and hide from God, not seek God.

The “heart” is the seat of “desires” within man. What a man "believes" comes from his heart and is seen by his actions.

Jeremiah 17:9 says

9The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Unrighteousness is incapable of choosing anything other than unrighteousness.

Mankind needed a new nature…he needed the very righteousness of God…

Every dispensation proves that mankind is incapable of choosing God.

We have no choice but to sin because of our fallen nature.

We have no desire to follow or obey God because of our unrighteous state.

The heart must be changed…and only God can do that.

Only if you are a Calvinist: The lens we look through are based upon different foundations and as such the conclusions are different.

Everyone who believes the Bible believes what I Cor. 2:14 states. The difference is you believe a person must be saved first then believe and everyone else just accepts that faith is first and regeneration follows.

The gospel message, the convicting ministry of the Holy Spirit, the universal enlightenment of Jesus, John 1:9 and the universal drawing all add up to what is called prevenient grace not regeneration.

I have been down this road many times. Here is the bottom line: You must prove that regeneration takes place from Scripture before faith.

We both know the answer to that: Faith is always first and regeneration is second. There is not one single verse that tells us that regeneration precedes faith, not one. Just the opposite is the case. John 3 talks about the New Birth and after Nic is found wanting in understanding Jesus explains to him that regeneration is “looking and believing” as illustrated in the example Jesus reminds him concerning the historical account concerning the snakes God sent to judge the Israelites and on top of that He gives us John 3:16 “whosoever” or “everyone” who believes shall have eternal life. Jesus told the woman in Luke 7:50 “your faith has saved you” and Paul tells us in Titus 3:5 that saved is “the washing by the Holy Spirit described as regeneration and renewing. Regeneration is “new birth” and renewing is renewing. So what is saved? It is the Holy Spirit given us new life / birth or regeneration. When does this take place? What did Jesus tell the woman? Your faith has saved you (man’s part) and what did Paul tell us that saved was? The Holy Spirit washes us by regeneration and renewing.

 

[parsifal22]

Only if you are a Calvinist: The lens we look through are based upon different foundations and as such the conclusions are different.

Everyone who believes the Bible believes what I Cor. 2:14 states. The difference is you believe a person must be saved first then believe and everyone else just accepts that faith is first and regeneration follows.

The gospel message, the convicting ministry of the Holy Spirit, the universal enlightenment of Jesus, John 1:9 and the universal drawing all add up to what is called prevenient grace not regeneration.

I have been down this road many times. Here is the bottom line: You must prove that regeneration takes place from Scripture before faith.

We both know the answer to that: Faith is always first and regeneration is second. There is not one single verse that tells us that regeneration precedes faith, not one. Just the opposite is the case. John 3 talks about the New Birth and after Nic is found wanting in understanding Jesus explains to him that regeneration is “looking and believing” as illustrated in the example Jesus reminds him concerning the historical account concerning the snakes God sent to judge the Israelites and on top of that He gives us John 3:16 “whosoever” or “everyone” who believes shall have eternal life. Jesus told the woman in Luke 7:50 “your faith has saved you” and Paul tells us in Titus 3:5 that saved is “the washing by the Holy Spirit described as regeneration and renewing. Regeneration is “new birth” and renewing is renewing. So what is saved? It is the Holy Spirit given us new life / birth or regeneration. When does this take place? What did Jesus tell the woman? Your faith has saved you (man’s part) and what did Paul tell us that saved was? The Holy Spirit washes us by regeneration and renewing.

Using whosoever as a proof for your case is importing a presupposition into the text not exigeting it your guilty of isogesis when you do that. Man has no part in Regeneration your position has already been refuted centuries ago for biblcal proof see The Calvinism Fact Sheet by Joel Barnes (Calvinism Fact Sheet by Joel Barnes) and yes I know every Scripture makes direct reference to The Five Points but there are no direct references to The Doctrine of The Trinity either part of Biblical study is building a case with a wide range of scripture sources and letting the Text speak not shoe horning a personal philosophy into Scripture. I close with two quotes one from Frances Turretin, and one from A.W. Pink not because these men where infallible but because they give the clearest and most concise explanations of what world means in John 3:16.
Frances Turretin
The love treated of in John 3:16. .. cannot be universal towards all and every one, but special towards a few... because the end of that love which God intends is the salvation of those whom He pursues with such love.. . If therefore God sent Christ for that end, that through Him the world might be saved, He must either have failed of His end, or the world must necessarily be saved in fact. But it is certain that not the whole world, but only those chosen out of the world are saved; therefore, to them properly has this love reference... Why then should not the world here be taken not universally for individuals, but indefinitely for anyone, Jews as well as Gentiles, without distinction of nation, language and condition. that He may be said to have loved the human race, inasmuch as He was unwilling to destroy it entirely but decreed to save some certain persons Out of it, not only from one people as before, but from all indiscriminately, although the effects of that love should not be extended to each individual, but only to some certain ones, viz, those chosen out of the world? (Theological Institutes)

A.W. Pink

Turning now to John 3:16, it should be evident from the passages just quoted that this verse will not bear the construction usually put upon it. "God so loved the world." Many suppose that this means, The entire human race. But "the entire human race" includes all mankind from Adam till the close of earth’s history: it reaches backward as well as forward! Consider, then, the history of mankind before Christ was born. Unnumbered millions lived and died before the Savior came to the earth, lived here "having no hope and without God in the world," and therefore passed out into eternity of woe. If God "loved" them, where is the slightest proof thereof? Scripture declares "Who (God) in times past (from the tower of Babel till after Pentecost) suffered all nations to walk in their own ways" (Acts 14:16). Scripture declares that "And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient" (Rom. 1:28). To Israel God said, "You only have I known of all the families of the earth" (Amos 3:2). In view of these plain passages who will be so foolish as to insist that God in the past loved all mankind! The same applies with equal force to the future . . . But the objector comes back to John 3:16 and says, "World means world. "True, but we have shown that "the world" does not mean the whole human family. The fact is that "the world" is used in a general way.. . Now the first thing to note in connection with John 3:16 is that our Lord was there speaking to Nicodemus, a man who believed that God’s mercies were confined to his own nation. Christ there announced that God’s love in giving His Son had a larger object in view, that it flowed beyond the boundary of Palestine, reaching out to "regions beyond." In other words, this was Christ’s announcement that God had a purpose of grace toward Gentiles as well as Jews. "God so loved the world," then, signifies, God’s love is international in its scope. But does this mean that God loves every individual among the Gentiles? Not necessarily, for as we have seen the term "world" is general rather than specific, relative rather than absolute. . . the "world" in John 3:16 must, in the final analysis refer to the world of God’s people. Must we say, for there is no other alternative solution. It cannot mean the whole human race, for one half of the race was already in hell when Christ came to earth. It is unfair to insist that it means every human being now living, for every other passage in the New Testament where God’s love is mentioned limits it to His own people — search and see! The objects of God’s love in John 3:16 are precisely the same as the objects of Christ’s love in John 13:1: "Now before the Feast of the Passover, when Jesus knew that His time was come, that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved His own which were in the world, He loved them unto the end." We may admit that our interpretation of John 3:16 is no novel one invented by us, but one almost uniformly given by the Reformers and Puritans, and many others since them. (The Sovereignty of God)

 

[Benefactor]

A.W. Pink
(The Sovereignty of God)

Quoting all the Calvinist in the world does not change the fact that neither they nor you can quote one verse that proves that regeneration precedes faith. Not one.

The task is simple: Quote one verse that proves that salvation is first and faith follows.

 

[Benefactor]

Where does faith come from? From hearing the gospel

When is a person regenerated?

After he believes

So that you don't think I am avoiding the false doctrines these false prophets are teaching I will deal with that later in a separate thread but for now the topic is where faith comes from.

If you don't mind stay on topic and deal with this purpose of the thread. (I know all the tricks and antics so just stay on topic)

Again where does Calvinist find in the Bible that salvation is first and faith is second and that faith is a special infused gift received after one is saved?

You do the study and you point out how you can personally support your view.

 

[parsifal22]

Where does faith come from? From hearing the gospel

When is a person regenerated?

After he believes

So that you don't think I am avoiding the false doctrines these false prophets are teaching I will deal with that later in a separate thread but for now the topic is where faith comes from.

If you don't mind stay on topic and deal with this purpose of the thread. (I know all the tricks and antics so just stay on topic)

Again where does Calvinist find in the Bible that salvation is first and faith is second and that faith is a special infused gift received after one is saved?

You do the study and you point out how you can personally support your view.

When you quit attacking a straw man version of my belief system then will talk till then I stand by the exgesis in the presintaions I posted . You used John 3:16 I was just showing why your interpretation of that verse is faulty. For your view to hold weight you would have to radically reinterpret all the verses that deal with Total Inability (see Genesis 2:16-17; Psalm 51:5; Psalm 58:3; John 3:5-7; Romans 5:12; Ephesians 2:1-3; Colossians 2:13., Genesis 6:5; Genesis 8:21; Ecclesiastes 9:3; Jeremiah 17:9; Mark 7:21-23; John 3:19; Romans 8:7-8; 1 Corinthians 2:14; Ephesians 4:17-19; Ephesians 5:8; Titus 1:15., John 8:34; John 8:44; Romans 6:20; Ephesians 2:1-2; 2 Timothy 2:25-26; Titus 3:3; 1 John 3:10; 1 John 5:19., 1 Kings 8:46; 2 Chronicles 6:36; Job 15:14-16; Psalm 130:3; Psalm 143:2; Proverbs 20:9; Ecclesiastes 7:20; Ecclesiastes 7:29; Isaiah 53:6; Isaiah 64:6; Romans 3:9-12; James 3:2; James 3:8; 1 John 1:8; 1 John 1:10., and Job 14:4; Jeremiah 23:13; Matthew 7:16-18; Matthew 12:33; John 6:44; John 6:65; Romans 11:35-36; 1 Corinthians 2:14; 1 Corinthians 4:7; 2 Corinthians 3:5.). As I have said before the question here is not when is faith given to man? But can unregenerate man reach out to God in saving knowledge? and scripture clearly shows that with out the regenerating work of The Holy ghost there can be no salvation because man in his natural state hates God and wants nothing to do with Him the only way you come to your conclusion is by importing a philosophical presupposition into Scripture not letting the text speak for it's self.

 

[parsifal22]

The gent in the video is simply a false teacher refusing to accept the Scriptures clear teaching. He and White have flooded the Net with their false doctrines and so that you understand I have watched most of them. They are simply put false teachers.

Here is the question for you to answer: You not them prove that your view is what you say it is. Where in Scripture does it teach that salvation is first and faith is after? Where? These false teachers have no credibility.

The context of 1Timothy 2 militates against your interpretation your once again reading a presupposition into the scripture see 1 Timothy 2:4 - An Exegesis by Alan Kurschner (1 Timothy 2:4 - An Exegesis) as far as Scripture that shows Regeneration proceeds faith please see Deuteronomy 10:14-15; Psalm 33:12; Psalm 65:4; Psalm 106:5; Haggai 2:23; Matthew 11:27; Matthew 22:14; Matthew 22:22; Matthew 22:24; Matthew 24:31; Luke 18:7; Romans 8:28-30; Romans 8:33; Romans 11:28; Colossians 3:12; 1 Thessalonians 5:9; Titus 1:1; 1 Peter 1:1-2; 1 Peter 2:8-9; Revelation 17:14., Mark 13:20; John 15:16; Acts 13:48; Acts 18:27; Romans 9:11-13; Romans 9:16; Romans 10:20; 1 Corinthians 1:27-29; Philippians 1:29; Philippians 2:12-13; Ephesians 1:4; Ephesians 2:10; 1 Thessalonians 1:4-5; 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14; 2 Timothy 1:9; James 2:5; Revelation 13:8; Revelation 17:8., Acts 13:48; Romans 11:7; Ephesians 1:4; 1 Thessalonians 1:4; 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14; 2 Timothy 2:10., and Exodus 33:19; Deuteronomy 7:6-7; Matthew 20:15; Romans 9:10-24; Romans 11:4-6; Romans 11:33-36; Ephesians 1:5. Then there is the Efficacious Call of the Spirit which is shown explicitly and implicitly in the following verses: Romans 8:14; 1 Corinthians 2:10-13; 1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 Corinthians 12:3; 2 Corinthians 3:6; 2 Corinthians 3:17-18; 1 Peter 1:1-2., Deuteronomy 30:6; Ezekiel 11:19; Ezekiel 36:26-27; John 1:12-13; John 3:3-8; John 5:21; 2 Corinthians 5:17-18; Galatians 6:15; Ephesians 2:5; Ephesians 2:10; Colossians 2:13; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:3; 1 Peter 1:23; 1 John 5:4., Matthew 11:25-27; Matthew 13:10-11; Matthew 13:16; Matthew 16:15-17; Luke 8:10; Luke 10:21; John 6:37; John 6:44-45; John 6:64-65; John 10:3-6; John 10:16; John 10:26-29; 1 Corinthians 2:14; Ephesians 1:17-18., Acts 5:31; Acts 11:18; Acts 13:48; Acts 16:14; Acts 18:27; Ephesians 2:8-9; Philippians 1:29; 2 Timothy 2:25-26., Romans 1:6-7; Romans 8:30; Romans 9:23-24; 1 Corinthians 1:1-2; 1 Corinthians 1:9; 1 Corinthians 1:23-31; Galatians 1:15-16; Ephesians 4:4; 2 Timothy 1:9; Hebrews 9:15; Jude 1:1; 1 Peter 1:15; 1 Peter 2:9; 1 Peter 5:10; 2 Peter 1:3; Revelation 17:14. and Isaiah 55:11; John 3:27; John 17:2; Romans 9:16; 1 Corinthians 3:6-7; 1 Corinthians 4:7; Philippians 2:12-13; James 1:18; 1 John 5:20. All these verses should clearly show that The Five Points are Biblical. Finally on a personal note referring to brothers in Christ as false teachers is needlessly harsh you can say someone is wrong but calling someone who is your brother in Christ a false teacher is pretty unchrist like after all it's not like any of the men I have quoted have not said any thing against the historic protestant faith while your view goes back to Hugo Grotius and The Remonstrants with a few alterations concerning the security of the believer and The Remonstrants while grossly in error as concerns Salvation where non the less brothers in Christ even if they where in error.

 

[Benefactor]

When you quit attacking a straw man version of my belief system then will talk till then I stand by the exgesis in the presintaions I posted . You used John 3:16 I was just showing why your interpretation of that verse is faulty. For your view to hold weight you would have to radically reinterpret all the verses that deal with Total Inability (see Genesis 2:16-17; Psalm 51:5; Psalm 58:3; John 3:5-7; Romans 5:12; Ephesians 2:1-3; Colossians 2:13., Genesis 6:5; Genesis 8:21; Ecclesiastes 9:3; Jeremiah 17:9; Mark 7:21-23; John 3:19; Romans 8:7-8; 1 Corinthians 2:14; Ephesians 4:17-19; Ephesians 5:8; Titus 1:15., John 8:34; John 8:44; Romans 6:20; Ephesians 2:1-2; 2 Timothy 2:25-26; Titus 3:3; 1 John 3:10; 1 John 5:19., 1 Kings 8:46; 2 Chronicles 6:36; Job 15:14-16; Psalm 130:3; Psalm 143:2; Proverbs 20:9; Ecclesiastes 7:20; Ecclesiastes 7:29; Isaiah 53:6; Isaiah 64:6; Romans 3:9-12; James 3:2; James 3:8; 1 John 1:8; 1 John 1:10., and Job 14:4; Jeremiah 23:13; Matthew 7:16-18; Matthew 12:33; John 6:44; John 6:65; Romans 11:35-36; 1 Corinthians 2:14; 1 Corinthians 4:7; 2 Corinthians 3:5.). As I have said before the question here is not when is faith given to man? But can unregenerate man reach out to God in saving knowledge? and scripture clearly shows that with out the regenerating work of The Holy ghost there can be no salvation because man in his natural state hates God and wants nothing to do with Him the only way you come to your conclusion is by importing a philosophical presupposition into Scripture not letting the text speak for it's self.

I knew it was coming, the "straw man" card

 

[Benefactor]

I love all my sisters and brothers in Christ, but if they err in their teaching of the Scripture they get rebuked. To teach that regeneration is prior to faith is a false doctrine and to teach this is to be a false teacher. To teach that the atonement was limited is to teach a lie and to accuse the Scripture of falseness. Anyone that teaches this is a false teacher. To teach that God only picked one out of every ten, special election, is to teach what is not taught in the Bible and that is false therefore the one teaching it is a false teacher.

If a person teaches the TULIP he is a false teacher.


Let me see if a spot is red do I call it green?


The bottom line is this: if a person teaches contrary to what the Bible teaches is a false teacher. Therefore, to teach what John Calvin or Dort or other that identify with that view and claim it to be true are false teachers.

Do you believe that God desires every single person that comes into this life to be saved?

Yes or No


Do you believe that God is not willing that any perish and that this means every person from Adam to that last person to be born on this earth?

Yes or No

 

[parsifal22]

Do you believe that God desires every single person that comes into this life to be saved?

Yes or No


Do you believe that God is not willing that any perish and that this means every person from Adam to that last person to be born on this earth?

Yes or No

I refuse to answer bot questions there a catch 22 instead I derect you to see Are There Two Wills in God? (Are There Two Wills in God? :: Desiring God Christian Resource Library_)

I bid you good day sir because you are allowing your presuppositions to color all of your thinking and the most dangerous man is the man who thinks he has no presuppositions.

 

[BuzzardHut]

Paul tells us that faith comes from hearing. A simple statement that a child can understand, but reform theology and many Calvinist insist that faith is a special miraculous infusion that man experiences after he is regenerated or caused to be born from above.

This of course is not to be found anywhere in the Scripture.

Faith is trust in God's word pure and simple

What is Bible Faith?
http://www.buzzardhut.net/index/htm/Never.pdf

http://www.buzzardhut.net/Heard

 

[Benefactor]

What is Bible Faith?
http://www.buzzardhut.net/index/htm/Never.pdf

What About Those Who Never Heard of Jesus?

Read over the data and will read it again later. Observations:

I would add to the list of "revelations" prevenient grace which would fall between natural and special revelation.

1) Where did Noah get the information about God he had? We know that Noah worshiped God and this was prior to Abraham
2) 1.Genesis 4:26 And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD. When we ponder this verse I believe we can infer strongly that God communicated with man and that man did then and has always had some form of revelation about God other than natural revelation.
3) What about Melchizedeck? A priest of the most High God prior to the law and in the Gentile world. Can we say that this same kind of representation was not present at other times, simply because the Scripture is silent?
4) the passage from the translation you used concerning John 1:9 does nto represent the actual Greek language. 9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
Will post more on this later.
5) Three important points: A) Faith comes from hearing the Gospel B) the definition of faith is Hebrews 11:1 C) believing faith is always tagged as "your" "their" "his" etc. A close look at Hebrews 11 it can be concluded that the ones receiving the letter or information would have understood faith in the same context as having faith in whatever one might believe in. Man was born with this capacity as he is created in the image of God.

In the all inclusive sense everything is a gift of / from God but in process of God's redemption in our "time space continuum" the capacity to trust, have faith, believe etc is something we can do by virtue of the fact that we are created in God's image.

By the way if you have the ability to change "were" to "where" I would appreciate it in the title of the thread.

 

[BuzzardHut]

Read over the data and will read it again later. Observations:

I would add to the list of "revelations" prevenient grace which would fall between natural and special revelation.

1) Where did Noah get the information about God he had? We know that Noah worshiped God and this was prior to Abraham
2) 1.Genesis 4:26 And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD. When we ponder this verse I believe we can infer strongly that God communicated with man and that man did then and has always had some form of revelation about God other than natural revelation.

It was passed down from Adam

3) What about Melchizedeck? A priest of the most High God prior to the law and in the Gentile world. Can we say that this same kind of representation was not present at other times, simply because the Scripture is silent?

obviously God worked through more people than the scriptures reveal

4) the passage from the translation you used concerning John 1:9 does nto represent the actual Greek language. 9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
Will post more on this later.

Jesus is the true light
He delivers prevenient grace through the Holy Spirit

5) Three important points: A) Faith comes from hearing the Gospel B) the definition of faith is Hebrews 11:1 C) believing faith is always tagged as "your" "their" "his" etc. A close look at Hebrews 11 it can be concluded that the ones receiving the letter or information would have understood faith in the same context as having faith in whatever one might believe in. Man was born with this capacity as he is created in the image of God.

In the all inclusive sense everything is a gift of / from God but in process of God's redemption in our "time space continuum" the capacity to trust, have faith, believe etc is something we can do by virtue of the fact that we are created in God's image.

By the way if you have the ability to change "were" to "where" I would appreciate it in the title of the thread.

Faith begins by hearing from God
Faith continues by receiving and accepting it as your own
Faith concludes by acting upon what is heard and received

 

[Benefactor]

It was passed down from Adam

obviously God worked through more people than the scriptures reveal

Jesus is the true light
He delivers prevenient grace through the Holy Spirit

Faith begins by hearing from God
Faith continues by receiving and accepting it as your own
Faith concludes by acting upon what is heard and received

It seems that for the most part we are on the same page.