Where Did This Belief Come From?

[Umbrella Girl]

Although I don’t remember who originally said the following, it sums up nicely what I’m asking about here:

“The Bible clearly teaches that the saved will live eternally on a New Earth in a New Jerusalem in the presence of the Lord (Revelation 21). The traditional concept of mainline Christianity that Heaven will be an ethereal world of disembodied spirits is not scriptural.”

Recently, I was talking with my cousins (both raised Catholic as I was), and they looked at me like I was nuts when I told them about our return to Earth during the Millennial Kingdom, and that we will have glorified bodies, just as Jesus did when the Apostles saw Him after His Resurrection. They politely listened to me, but I could tell they didn’t believe a word of what I had said. It must have sounded so “out there” to them…

This belief that we will be floating around without bodies in some spiritual ether - is it rooted in the Catholic Church? If so, I’m puzzled, because other than the addition of the Apocrypha, their Bible (their Book of Revelation, specifically) is the same as ours…

 

[mattfivefour]

I couldn't tell you exactly where their belief comes from, but I can tell you it does not come from the Bible. Revelation 21 and 22 tells us clearly how and where we will be.

 

[Pat]

1Cor. 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1Jn. 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

 

[RobinB]

his belief that we will be floating around without bodies in some spiritual ether - is it rooted in the Catholic Church? I

I was raised Catholic, and that's not something I've heard. The only afterlife I recall hearing about was "purgatory."

 

[Rocky R.]

Okay, off-topic, and I’m not being callous here, but since you mentioned Catholic, it got me thinking about a nun teacher I had in fourth grade who abused me. Recently, I heard she passed away some years ago. Just how many “hail marys” has she said right now in “purgatory”?

Let’s see, it takes 9.72 seconds to say one complete “Hail Mary”. That’s approximately 370 hail Mary’s per hour, and about 8,888 Marian supplications per day! In a years’ time, she would have said over 3,244,444 prayers to Mary. Because she’s been there since 2008, that would mean she’s said well over 42,177,777.8 — and she’s never getting out! Eternity has just begun for this abusive nun.

One prayer to the real Jesus would have assured her place in Heaven, but it’s too late for her now.

Christianity is a very physical religion. We will live on a new earth with Jesus, having an incorruptible moral character, sharp minds, and strong bodies in harmony with God, with each other, and with all creation.

 

[benmcd]

The best I can remember, is that it came from pagan Greek philosophers like Plato and the Gnostic heretics and infiltrated the Church through Augustine. I haven't looked into it myself, I was just told this by other Christians.

 

[cheeky200386]

I was raised Catholic and never heard about the New Earth, The Millennium kingdom, the rapture. These weren't taught in my upbringing or Catholic School. There wasn't any Bible reading at school either. The focus was on learning about the Church structure, traditions like the sacraments. It was pretty much dead and focused on completing a daily check list to keep God happy and stay out of hell.

 

[Umbrella Girl]

I was raised Catholic and never heard about the New Earth, The Millennium kingdom, the rapture. These weren't taught in my upbringing or Catholic School. There wasn't any Bible reading at school either. The focus was on learning about the Church structure, traditions like the sacraments. It was pretty much dead and focused on completing a daily check list to keep God happy and stay out of hell.

That describes my Catholic school experience, too. And as I said before, it puzzles me because they have the same exact Book of Revelation as we do. Yet they ignore most of it.

 

[Umbrella Girl]

The best I can remember, is that it came from pagan Greek philosophers like Plato and the Gnostic heretics and infiltrated the Church through Augustine. I haven't looked into it myself, I was just told this by other Christians.

Augustine was definitely a “fly in the ointment” when it came to introducing heresy…

 

[Lynn]

Augustine was definitely a “fly in the ointment” when it came to introducing heresy…

And he is where John Calvin got his ideas. People who claim to be a Calvinist don't even know half of what the source is for their false theological system. So sad. And they get rather indignant when they meet pre-trib people like dh and I.

 

[Rocky R.]

That describes my Catholic school experience, too. And as I said before, it puzzles me because they have the same exact Book of Revelation as we do. Yet they ignore most of it.

The goal of the Catholic church is to have its members keep trusting “Mother Church” itself for their salvation, which assures the Catholic church and the Vatican of continued cashflow. Does the Pope own a $350,000 ferrari like Joel Osteen? No, he has his own personal army, a private country, and a fleet of personal vehicles. It’s much nicer than what Joel Osteen has.

 

[Rocky R.]

Augustine was definitely a “fly in the ointment” when it came to introducing heresy…

In Catholic school, I was taught that Augustine was a something of a bad-boy-turned-preacher; but they also said that Mary Magdalene had amorous affections for Jesus. Cue the Yvonne Elliman song...

 

[Mama Bug]

I was also raised partially in the Catholic Church. I learned nothing. What I remember is just rituals. Some singing. Some talk of Mary, mother of God. I was a kid so I don’t remember everything. I remember my mother going to take communion every week. She went to Catholic school and claims to know the Bible. She knows it well enough to argue with my dad. But as far as learning anything from going to Mass, no. The priest would say something, we’d say something back. Same stuff, different week. What knowledge I got and remembered came from my dad and his church. I’d go with my mom early, then go with my dad after breakfast. He was First Assembly of God. Mom refused to go to church with my dad. She went once and never went back. What I learned about Revelation came from my dad. I tried to talk to my mom about it once and she said she didn’t care because it wouldn’t affect her. Uh, what????

 

[mikhen7]

Augustine was definitely a “fly in the ointment” when it came to introducing heresy…

Especially in his later years.

 

[mikhen7]

To read or not to read. Here is the official Catholic teaching on the New Heaven and Earth. They seem to dance around a bit on the subject. But I did not see anything about floating on a cloud with a golden harp in hand. But I do see some false teaching mixed with truth.



VI. THE HOPE OF THE NEW HEAVEN AND THE NEW EARTH (2854)

1042 At the end of time, the Kingdom of God will come in its fullness. After the universal judgment, the righteous will reign for ever with Christ, glorified in body and soul. The universe itself will be renewed: (769; 670; 310)

The Church … will receive her perfection only in the glory of heaven, when will come the time of the renewal of all things. At that time, together with the human race, the universe itself, which is so closely related to man and which attains its destiny through him, will be perfectly re-established in Christ.

1043 Sacred Scripture calls this mysterious renewal, which will transform humanity and the world, “new heavens and a new earth.” It will be the definitive realization of God’s plan to bring under a single head “all things in [Christ], things in heaven and things on earth.633 (671; 280, 518)

1044 In this new universe, the heavenly Jerusalem, God will have his dwelling among men. “He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning nor crying nor pain any more, for the former things have passed away.”

1045 For man, this consummation will be the final realization of the unity of the human race, which God willed from creation and of which the pilgrim Church has been “in the nature of sacrament.” Those who are united with Christ will form the community of the redeemed, “the holy city” of God, “the Bride, the wife of the Lamb.”637 She will not be wounded any longer by sin, stains, self-love, that destroy or wound the earthly community. The beatific vision, in which God opens himself in an inexhaustible way to the elect, will be the ever-flowing well-spring of happiness, peace, and mutual communion. (775; 1404)

1046 For the cosmos, Revelation affirms the profound common destiny of the material world and man: (349)

For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God … in hope because the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay.… We know that the whole creation has been groaning in travail together until now; and not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the first fruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.

1047 The visible universe, then, is itself destined to be transformed, “so that the world itself, restored to its original state, facing no further obstacles, should be at the service of the just,” sharing their glorification in the risen Jesus Christ.

1048 “We know neither the moment of the consummation of the earth and of man, nor the way in which the universe will be transformed. The form of this world, distorted by sin, is passing away, and we are taught that God is preparing a new dwelling and a new earth in which righteousness dwells, in which happiness will fill and surpass all the desires of peace arising in the hearts of men.” (673)

1049 “Far from diminishing our concern to develop this earth, the expectancy of a new earth should spur us on, for it is here that the body of a new human family grows, foreshadowing in some way the age which is to come. That is why, although we must be careful to distinguish earthly progress clearly from the increase of the kingdom of Christ, such progress is of vital concern to the kingdom of God, insofar as it can contribute to the better ordering of human society.” (2820)

1050 “When we have spread on earth the fruits of our nature and our enterprise … according to the command of the Lord and in his Spirit, we will find them once again, cleansed this time from the stain of sin, illuminated and transfigured, when Christ presents to his Father an eternal and universal kingdom.” God will then be “all in all” in eternal life:644 (1709; 260)

True and subsistent life consists in this: the Father, through the Son and in the Holy Spirit, pouring out his heavenly gifts on all things without exception. Thanks to his mercy, we too, men that we are, have received the inalienable promise of eternal life.


IN BRIEF

1051 Every man receives his eternal recompense in his immortal soul from the moment of his death in a particular judgment by Christ, the judge of the living and the dead.

1052 “We believe that the souls of all who die in Christ’s grace … are the People of God beyond death. On the day of resurrection, death will be definitively conquered, when these souls will be reunited with their bodies” (Paul VI, CPG § 28).

1053 “We believe that the multitude of those gathered around Jesus and Mary in Paradise forms the Church of heaven, where in eternal blessedness they see God as he is and where they are also, to various degrees, associated with the holy angels in the divine governance exercised by Christ in glory, by interceding for us and helping our weakness by their fraternal concern” (Paul VI, CPG § 29).

1054 Those who die in God’s grace and friendship imperfectly purified, although they are assured of their eternal salvation, undergo a purification after death, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of God.

1055 By virtue of the “communion of saints,” the Church commends the dead to God’s mercy and offers her prayers, especially the holy sacrifice of the Eucharist, on their behalf.

1056 Following the example of Christ, the Church warns the faithful of the “sad and lamentable reality of eternal death” (GCD 69), also called “hell.”

1057 Hell’s principal punishment consists of eternal separation from God in whom alone man can have the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.

1058 The Church prays that no one should be lost: “Lord, let me never be parted from you.” If it is true that no one can save himself, it is also true that God “desires all men to be saved” (1 Tim 2:4), and that for him “all things are possible” (Mt 19:26).

1059 “The holy Roman Church firmly believes and confesses that on the Day of Judgment all men will appear in their own bodies before Christ’s tribunal to render an account of their own deeds” (Council of Lyons II [1274]: DS 859; cf. DS 1549).

1060 At the end of time, the Kingdom of God will come in its fullness. Then the just will reign with Christ for ever, glorified in body and soul, and the material universe itself will be transformed. God will then be “all in all” (1 Cor 15:28), in eternal life.


Catholic Church, Catechism of the Catholic Church, 2nd Ed. (Washington, DC: United States Catholic Conference, 2000), 272–275.