Where are the ten horns?

Matthew6:33

Withstand in the evil day. Eph 6:13
I can think of only one. The fall of the US as the holder of the reserve currency, or, just the absolute fall of the US.
Maybe but I am not 100% sold on that being the initial/primary catalyst for the OWG to form (it could be though). My problem is where it could potentially interfere with Rev 6:5 black horse which brings economic collapse and scarcity. However I thought this would be caused by the Rev 6:3 red horse/war.

If you are like me, you would have thought the world markets/USD would have collapsed a long time ago. What is holding it back from collapse? Hmm.

The "rapture cause" theory also takes care of this big problem below that Andy mentions:
A “beast/OWG” system can not coexist with the church. Many nations throughout history including some current countries have heavily persecuted Jews and Christians, but a world system that wants to annihilate both Jews and Christians, being formed while the Holy Spirit/church is still here? Really????
I agree/'concur' hehe. I could imagine the system "getting started" which it most definitely has been in the works for a long time. However, like you Andy, I cannot imagine the beast system simultaneously being able to exist alongside the Church/Holy Spirit on earth.

How much of the current OWG planning is just human sinful effort/pride/rebellion being used and enticed by Satan himself? We have no way of knowing how much/little but it is an interesting question to ponder.
 

cshere

Well-Known Member
Maybe but I am not 100% sold on that being the initial/primary catalyst for the OWG to form (it could be though). My problem is where it could potentially interfere with Rev 6:5 black horse which brings economic collapse and scarcity. However I thought this would be caused by the Rev 6:3 red horse/war.

If you are like me, you would have thought the world markets/USD would have collapsed a long time ago. What is holding it back from collapse? Hmm.

The "rapture cause" theory also takes care of this big problem below that Andy mentions:

I agree/'concur' hehe. I could imagine the system "getting started" which it most definitely has been in the works for a long time. However, like you Andy, I cannot imagine the beast system simultaneously being able to exist alongside the Church/Holy Spirit on earth.

How much of the current OWG planning is just human sinful effort/pride/rebellion being used and enticed by Satan himself? We have no way of knowing how much/little but it is an interesting question to ponder.
Very good points.....it is all so much to consider....THANK THE LORD, HE is in control!!!!!!!

Appreciate your reply! Thank you for your gentleness and thoughts.
 

Tall Timbers

Imperfect but forgiven
It seems to me the 10 kings will appear as a result of the rapture and the seal judgments. Whether the NWO leads straight up to the ten horns or there is an initial phase of NWO prior to their appearance, that remains to be seen. All these hubbub about world governments (WEF, UN, EU) are preparatory to the 10 horns. But until the Spirit steps out of the way, they cannot have real power.

Daniel describes the OWG and then the division into 10 kingdoms before the a/c is revealed. Therefore that part of the future will occur before the seal judgements as the seal judgments will occur after the a/c is revealed.
 

Tall Timbers

Imperfect but forgiven
I could be wrong but the NWO doesn't necessarily have to start immediately with the reign of the ten kings.

It won't be immediate. The BIble doesn't say though how long it will take for the end times global govmint to divide itself into 10 kingdoms. I suspect that one of the 10 kingdoms is already ready (Europe) and others are on their way. The north american trade agreement, for example, wasn't just about trade...
 

Christianos

Member
If the rapture is not the catalyst that pushes the OWG to form with the 10 king regions, what would be a more likely catalyst?
WW3? Heaven forbid, if capable countries start throwing nuclear ICBM's at everyone I can see this happening potentially. Imagine if 10 major cities in the USA were flattened, likely no functional government other than politicians blaming each other, the same in Britian, Russia, Iran, North Korea, South Korea, various middle eastern countries, etc. People would be screaming for someone, anyone, who claims to have a plan to get them out of the mess (a.k.a., AC).

Personally, I believe the rapture and the nuke war happen nearly simultaneously. Could be next today, next week, or never. But I highly doubt the latter.
 

Christianos

Member
See Daniel 7:23-27 for sequence of events. The Scripture is pretty clear. It doesn't tell us when the Rapture will occur but we know from Scripture that that'll happen before the antichrist is revealed.
Thank you. But I was actually speculating when the "agreement with many" actually happens, particularly in relation to the Seals of Revelation 6. We know it's going to happen sometime post-rapture (I agree with your timeline above) , but the Trib likely not start the day after the Rapture. I was hoping to find more Biblical evidence on the topic, specifically something in Scripture that indicates the official start of Daniel's 70th week (the affirmation of the agreement with many) must happen prior to the Seals. Although not popular, I'm not seeing from Scripture that indicates the 4 horsemen aren't riding now with Russia/Ukraine and that the "agreement" won't happen until the 4th seal (which sounds like nuclear war to me). Actually the 6th seal potentially sounds a lot like major nuclear war as well. Starting the Tribulation (the "agreement") prior to the Seals seems contradictory to Rev 6:10.

Any Scripture to indicate that's not a plausible scenario?
 

Christianos

Member
Yes, lots. This is a pre-trib rapture site.
Sorry, I don't post often and I certainly don't want to break any rules. I am your guest and I respect that.

BUT, I think my theory is 100% pre-trib. I believe the Rapture to be imminent and prior to the trib and millennial reign. I am speculating as to when the "agreement with many" happens in relation to the Word, specifically Rev chapter 6. I am not saying anything contrary to a pre-trib rapture position. Perhaps I'm not being clear - specifically what in my question is off limits? Or is what the Word says about Dan 9:27 and how it relates to Rev 6 not allowed?

I'm OK either way - I will respect the rules. Just trying to clarify.
 

Tall Timbers

Imperfect but forgiven
Sorry, I don't post often and I certainly don't want to break any rules. I am your guest and I respect that.

BUT, I think my theory is 100% pre-trib. I believe the Rapture to be imminent and prior to the trib and millennial reign. I am speculating as to when the "agreement with many" happens in relation to the Word, specifically Rev chapter 6. I am not saying anything contrary to a pre-trib rapture position. Perhaps I'm not being clear - specifically what in my question is off limits? Or is what the Word says about Dan 9:27 and how it relates to Rev 6 not allowed?

I'm OK either way - I will respect the rules. Just trying to clarify.

I'm not a moderator, was just letting you know this is a pre-trib site and there are rules that govern our postings. Your posts do not appear to be a pre-trib rapture position to me, but I'll leave it at that as I'm not really interested in discussing other scenarios. Maybe someone else will be.
 

kathymendel

Well-Known Member
I think that, just as the Jews have their temple pre-fabbed and "ready to go", so do the globalists have everything lined up
pretty much for the ten horns to fall into place quickly once we are gone. In the midst of the calamity of millions of people missing,
it won't take long at all for it to be put into place.
 

Christianos

Member
We can see the stage being set for these things, but they can't take place until after we are gone.
I'm with you 100%. I'm simply suggesting (unless someone can come up with Scripture otherwise, which is the reason for my post) that the start of the Trib, identified as the reinforcement of the Dan 9:27 agreement, PERHAPS doesn't happen until around the 4th or 5th seal. Otherwise Rev 6:10 doesn't make sense.

Whether the trib starts prior to the 1st seal or at the 5th seal, the Rapture is long over - I agree with you that we are long gone. Thank you for your comments.
 

JoyJoyJoy

I Shall Not Be Moved
that the start of the Trib, identified as the reinforcement of the Dan 9:27 agreement, PERHAPS doesn't happen until around the 4th or 5th seal. Otherwise Rev 6:10 doesn't make sense.
Ok. I understand what you are saying now.
The trib begins with the peace agreement, right?
So you are saying no peace agreement until the 4th or 5th seal.
I've never considered that. The AC is th
e first horseman to ride.
Many speculate the Gog/Magog war prior to the peace treaty, possibly following the Rapture.

In your prior post, I thought you meant the horsemen were riding at present.
 

Christianos

Member
In your prior post, I thought you meant the horsemen were riding at present.
Actually, somewhat I am. The first horseman could still be the AC but 2 These 2 seems to indicate we won't be able to say that definitely until after the Dan 9:27 confirmation.

In other words, is there any Biblical evidence the "confirmation" (and associated start of the Trib) happens before the first seal? Or could it be the 4th seal?

Either way, the Rapture comes first. I'm just not sure the Trib HAS to start prior to the first seal. It's just an idea - I feel like I'm missing something.

And a similar question - from a Scriptural perspective, why couldn't the horsemen ride now, prior to the Dan 9:27 agreement? I know, it bucks the conventional wisdom but the Word tends to do that to man's ideas.

Thank you for your response.
 

Hidden

Well-Known Member
It won't be immediate. The BIble doesn't say though how long it will take for the end times global govmint to divide itself into 10 kingdoms. I suspect that one of the 10 kingdoms is already ready (Europe) and others are on their way. The north american trade agreement, for example, wasn't just about trade...

Right. And the little horn comes out of the already-established 10 horns, so I contradict what I posted earlier on this thread that the AC rises simultaneously with the NWO. lol I think we are in the cusp of the NWO and the subdividing the world into 10 horns, which could happen before the rapture or after the rapture but before the tribulation.
 
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