What is single most convincing bible verse that makes you believe in a PreTrib Rapture?

Lovin Jesus

Well-Known Member
Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

I am totally sold out that we are in The Grace Age, where salvation is a totally free gift. During the tribulation not taking the mark will be a huge problem, but taking the mark will damn one to Hell. So salvation during the tribulation is not totally free, as there is a requirement that you do not take the mark of the beast.


This is where there’s a huge difference between the church and the tribulation saints.

The church is in the age of grace which ends with the rapture of the church.

The tribulation saints will not be saved by this same grace. It will be like it was under the law where they will have to repent and by their works not give in to the demands of the beast and their salvation will come in their faithfulness through martyrdom or endurance until the second coming.

When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. They called out in a loud voice, ‘How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the Earth and avenge our blood?’ Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and brothers who were to be killed as they had been was completed.” (Revelation 6:9-11)

They overcame him [the devil] by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony; they did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death.” (Revelation 12:11,


In Matt 24:13, Jesus says the famous words:

But the one who endures to the end will be saved. (ESV)
Perhaps the most common understanding of this passage is that we must endure in good works to the end of our physical lives to be saved from hell. This understanding contradicts Paul’s words in Eph 2:8a:

For by grace you have been saved through faith. (ESV)
Notice two differences between Eph 2:8a and Matt 24:13: First, the Matt 24:13 salvation is by enduring whereas the Eph 2:8a salvation is by grace through faith. Second, the Matt 24:13 salvation is future (“will be saved,” from the Greek future tense, sothesetai) whereas the Eph 2:8a salvation is past (“have been saved,” from the Greek perfect tense sesosmenoi). Salvation from hell was by grace through faith and has already happened to me, so what is the future salvation by endurance that Jesus is talking about in Matt 24:13? The answer is in the context.

Matthew 24:13 is part of an answer to the question that Jesus’ disciples asked earlier in the chapter:

As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?” (Matt 24:3 ESV)
It makes sense that the salvation in vs 13 should be in the future tense; after all, the disciples are asking about the future. Specifically, they were asking about the 7-year tribulation period. One reason we know that the Tribulation is in view is because Jesus says that the abomination of desolation (which Daniel talks about in Dan 9) will occur during this period. We also know that this is the tribulation because they asked immediately after Jesus said that not one stone of the temple would be left on another – surely a reference to the replacement of the 2nd temple with the temple that Ezekiel writes about in Ez 40-48.
themilesescom
 

Ghoti Ichthus

Pray so they do not serve alone. Ephesians 6:10-20
I look at the Flood. God saved Noah and his family from the cataclysm (tribulation) (judgment) of the flood. God kept them in a safe place (the ark) through the entire flood. They didn't have to do any swimming and they were shut up inside before the rain began. The rainbow in the sky is the remembrance of the covenant. BTW, it's interesting that the word ark is used for Noah's ark and the Ark of the Covenant. In both cases, something very precious is kept safe inside. God called Noah and his family righteous and that is why He kept them from the hour of judgment. God calls Christians righteous because Jesus' righteousness is imputed (counted for) us. God is orderly and consistent. The Flood is the same pattern as Lot (Sodom and Gomorrah), Israelites (Passover), Mary, Joseph, and Jesus (flight into Egypt), etc. that foreshadows the Rapture.

Jesus, Himself, likened the time of His coming to the days of Noah:

37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
Matthew 24:37-44, KJV


Flood Narrative:

1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6 And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
7 And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.
9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.
10 And Noah begat three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
11 The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.
12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.
13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
14 Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch.
15 And this is the fashion which thou shalt make it of: The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, and the height of it thirty cubits.
16 A window shalt thou make to the ark, and in a cubit shalt thou finish it above; and the door of the ark shalt thou set in the side thereof; with lower, second, and third stories shalt thou make it.
17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.
18 But with thee will I establish my covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons' wives with thee.
19 And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.
20 Of fowls after their kind, and of cattle after their kind, of every creeping thing of the earth after his kind, two of every sort shall come unto thee, to keep them alive.
21 And take thou unto thee of all food that is eaten, and thou shalt gather it to thee; and it shall be for food for thee, and for them.
22 Thus did Noah; according to all that God commanded him, so did he.
Genesis 6, KJV


1 And the Lord said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.
2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his male.
3 Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth.
4 For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth.
5 And Noah did according unto all that the Lord commanded him.
6 And Noah was six hundred years old when the flood of waters was upon the earth.
7 And Noah went in, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him, into the ark, because of the waters of the flood.
8 Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth,
9 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.
10 And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth.
11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.
12 And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.
13 In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;
14 They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort.
15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.
16 And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the Lord shut him in.
17 And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.
18 And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters.
19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.
20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.
21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:
22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.
23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.
24 And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days.
Genesis 7, KJV


1 And God remembered Noah, and every living thing, and all the cattle that was with him in the ark: and God made a wind to pass over the earth, and the waters assuaged;
2 The fountains also of the deep and the windows of heaven were stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained;
3 And the waters returned from off the earth continually: and after the end of the hundred and fifty days the waters were abated.
4 And the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat.
5 And the waters decreased continually until the tenth month: in the tenth month, on the first day of the month, were the tops of the mountains seen.
6 And it came to pass at the end of forty days, that Noah opened the window of the ark which he had made:
7 And he sent forth a raven, which went forth to and fro, until the waters were dried up from off the earth.
8 Also he sent forth a dove from him, to see if the waters were abated from off the face of the ground;
9 But the dove found no rest for the sole of her foot, and she returned unto him into the ark, for the waters were on the face of the whole earth: then he put forth his hand, and took her, and pulled her in unto him into the ark.
10 And he stayed yet other seven days; and again he sent forth the dove out of the ark;
11 And the dove came in to him in the evening; and, lo, in her mouth was an olive leaf pluckt off: so Noah knew that the waters were abated from off the earth.
12 And he stayed yet other seven days; and sent forth the dove; which returned not again unto him any more.
13 And it came to pass in the six hundredth and first year, in the first month, the first day of the month, the waters were dried up from off the earth: and Noah removed the covering of the ark, and looked, and, behold, the face of the ground was dry.
14 And in the second month, on the seven and twentieth day of the month, was the earth dried.
15 And God spake unto Noah, saying,
16 Go forth of the ark, thou, and thy wife, and thy sons, and thy sons' wives with thee.
17 Bring forth with thee every living thing that is with thee, of all flesh, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth; that they may breed abundantly in the earth, and be fruitful, and multiply upon the earth.
18 And Noah went forth, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him:
19 Every beast, every creeping thing, and every fowl, and whatsoever creepeth upon the earth, after their kinds, went forth out of the ark.
20 And Noah builded an altar unto the Lord; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.
21 And the Lord smelled a sweet savour; and the Lord said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.
22 While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.
Genesis 8, KJV



1 And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.
2 And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered.
3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.
4 But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.
5 And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man.
6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.
7 And you, be ye fruitful, and multiply; bring forth abundantly in the earth, and multiply therein.
8 And God spake unto Noah, and to his sons with him, saying,
9 And I, behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you;
10 And with every living creature that is with you, of the fowl, of the cattle, and of every beast of the earth with you; from all that go out of the ark, to every beast of the earth.
11 And I will establish my covenant with you, neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth.
12 And God said, This is the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations:
13 I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.
14 And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud:
15 And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh.
16 And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.
17 And God said unto Noah, This is the token of the covenant, which I have established between me and all flesh that is upon the earth.
18 And the sons of Noah, that went forth of the ark, were Shem, and Ham, and Japheth: and Ham is the father of Canaan.
19 These are the three sons of Noah: and of them was the whole earth overspread.
20 And Noah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard:
21 And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent.
22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.
23 And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness.
24 And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.
25 And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.
26 And he said, Blessed be the Lord God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.
27 God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.
28 And Noah lived after the flood three hundred and fifty years.
29 And all the days of Noah were nine hundred and fifty years: and he died.
Genesis 9, KJV
 

Ghoti Ichthus

Pray so they do not serve alone. Ephesians 6:10-20
Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

I am totally sold out that we are in The Grace Age, where salvation is a totally free gift. During the tribulation not taking the mark will be a huge problem, but taking the mark will damn one to Hell. So salvation during the tribulation is not totally free, as there is a requirement that you do not take the mark of the beast.

The Church Age also has a requirement: accept the gift in faith. In the West, it's easy. In other places, this is extremely costly, to include losing one's life or the lives of one's family. During the Tribulation, accepting the gift in faith will also be costly, as one, with faith in Jesus, will not take the mark, which, in turn may or will cost one's life or the lives of one's family.

Every dispensation has had a requirement, starting with God's Command to Adam and Eve to not eat the fruit of a specific tree. The consequence for failure has always been death. However, God always provided(s) a way out for the faithful.
 

castcrowns

Well-Known Member
1 Thessalonians 4:17

Because no other group of saints are caught up alive, so this is the Church.
Also, the only group of dead saints that meet Jesus in the atmosphere is the Church.

So, Jesus Returns only returns to the atmosphere for His Church first, and later Returns to the earth and resurrects the remaining groups of saints.

The Old Testament Saints and Tribulation Saints rise from their graves and stand on the earth when Jesus Returns and stands on the Mount of Olives.
 

Salluz

Aspiring Man of God
I look at the Flood. God saved Noah and his family from the cataclysm (tribulation) (judgment) of the flood. God kept them in a safe place (the ark) through the entire flood. They didn't have to do any swimming and they were shut up inside before the rain began.

I'd say Enoch is an even better picture of the Church in relation to the tribulation. He walked with God and then was no more for God took him away (well before Noah even got on the ark)
 

AnewcreationinJesus

Soon and very soon ....
Just thinking about this subject and it's not so much a particular verse but the entire picture of the word shows the Truth of pre trib - whether it's all the references to the church not appointed to the Lords wrath, the "your people" verse in Daniel re 70 weeks referring to Israel, the "wrath of the Lamb" in Revelation 6 having started at the beginning of that chapter with the opening of seal 1 ....and as the church is not appointed to his wrath then the church must be in Heaven before seal 1 is even opened ....

What interesting to me is how covid certainly is a preview of how people may try to do "business as usual" even during the trib period ....even with the world on lock down during 2020 ....people still tried to carry on "as normal" ...

...Also hearts are waxing ever harder and mocking and scoffing so while obviously there are still folks to come into the Church ....it really does seem as though the restraint on evil has been removed that little bit further even this year ....which gives me hope that our Blessed Hope is very soon yet am very sad for those who refuse to believe the Truth ....a group of people I've been praying for include folks on FB with the most horrendous horrible mocking comments and vile memes against anything to do with the Lord Jesus and the Bible ....have been praying for them to come to repentance while there is still time ....

In fact sadly that's one of the real difficulties of this year ...surrounded by mockers and scoffers and simply trying to pray behind the scenes because "we wrestle not against flesh and blood" ...

It says it all that apparently the new "Bill and Ted" film features mockery of the Lord Jesus ...shan't be watching that but praying for those who made the film ...they still have time to be saved...
 
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lismore

Well-Known Member
Hello. Good thread, lots of wonderful bible verses posted! A scripture not yet covered is this one:

Psalm 130 I wait for the Lord more than watchmen wait for the morning, more than watchmen wait for the morning.

To me this speaks of the rapture, having worked nights I understand that feeling of wanting to be home. To someone waiting earnestly for the return of the Lord having to wait another 7 years, might as well be 700! Therefore the church going through the tribulation view is not taking into account this desire to be home. THe Psalm goes on to talk about 'full redemption'. Going through seven years of Tribulation doesn't sound like 'full redemption'. God Bless :)
 

MtnMan

Member
Rebelation 19:14

I'm not sure one verse alone can adequately do that. Here are some verses (some already mentioned) that, taken together, clearly indicate a pre-trib rapture.
[2Th 2:1-9 NASB95] 1 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, 2 that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for [it will not come] unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God. 5 Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things? 6 And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains [will do so] until he is taken out of the way. 8 Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming; 9 [that is,] the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders,
[1Th 5:9 NASB95] 9 For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,
[2Th 2:1-4 NASB95] 1 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, 2 that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for [it will not come] unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.
[Rev 3:10 NKJV] 10 "Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.
 

gregb4hope

Active Member
Sojourner, I agree..God also has a perfect track record of taking His people out before the wrath.. knowing that God keeps His promises causes me to have total faith in the Pretrib Rapture.
This is a sign that Apostle Paul gives after he mentions the event of being caught up aka rapture. It's in First Thessa 5:1-3 .......When they say Peace & Safety. This event can only occur at the beginning and not Mid or Post Tribulation. However, we could still be here at the beginning of the tribulation, in order for us to see and respond to it without jubilation as the world respond to it, with jubilation. That means God is forewarning us of it's controversial nature which displeases Him to the point of igniting his wrath. So yes....it is pre Trib but actually after it begins and it still meets imminency of Christ return. But it seems to require evidence of 7 year countdown as part of the Terms and Condition, That Israel signs!
 

ItIsFinished!

Blood bought child of the King of kings.
This is a sign that Apostle Paul gives after he mentions the event of being caught up aka rapture. It's in First Thessa 5:1-3 .......When they say Peace & Safety. This event can only occur at the beginning and not Mid or Post Tribulation. However, we could still be here at the beginning of the tribulation, in order for us to see and respond to it without jubilation as the world respond to it, with jubilation. That means God is forewarning us of it's controversial nature which displeases Him to the point of igniting his wrath. So yes....it is pre Trib but actually after it begins and it still meets imminency of Christ return. But it seems to require evidence of 7 year countdown as part of the Terms and Condition, That Israel signs!
The Church WILL NOT be here at ANY POINT during the Tribulation.

I have a question , do you believe right after the
Rapture , the 7 year Tribulation starts in conjunction with Israel signing the 7 year Peace Treaty?
 
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