What are the biblical consequences of Russia invading Ukraine?

greg64

Well-Known Member
Just some quick thoughts off the top of my head:

Does anyone think Biden will have an effective response should Russia go full bore? After what happened in Afghanistan, I think it'll just accelerate the decline of the US. Europe will start to talk louder and more seriously about a common defense force of their own. With the decline of the US and pending financial issues and maybe collapse, I think we'll see the regional governments start to form, eventually becoming the 10 horns from Daniel 7. At the same time, North Korea is acting up again, and China could decide to strike Taiwan at any point. I think we're heading into a period of great upheaval, and only the actions of the Restrainer will keep some kind of a lid on it, at least in terms of mr. fix it being revealed. But I think we'll see major stage setting -- you can already see a lot of that going on with the economy, pandemic response, etc. And I seriously doubt Biden and his admin could do a worse job if they tried. Maybe they are trying, who knows.

Meanwhile, Russia supplies natural gas to Europe, so they probably won't do much in terms of effective protest. Israel is supposed to start supplying gas to Europe in a few years, but Biden just came out about a week ago and said he now opposes that project. If it does wind up going through, that's competition for Russia, which they're not going to like. Or if it doesn't, Israel is still sitting on a ton of natural resources that will be attractive. Regardless of their relationship now, Russia will be coming to take a spoil soon (Ezekiel 38-39).
 

greg64

Well-Known Member
So is it just simply that a dominating Russian presence in Ukraine makes it that much easier to get down to Israel?
I think it's probably more of a psychological thing and/or having one less pan in the fire or thing to worry about. Geographically, it's not necessary, but I think it gets into the Russian mindset, what it will take for them to feel secure while also restoring former glory, etc. @athenasius will certainly have a much more informed take on it.

In the short term, I think it's about increasing instability in the world and tearing down the old balance of power while there's an opportunity to do so. Stolen elections have consequences, I guess.
 

Footsteps

Well-Known Member
NATO does not want to fight for Ukraine. Germany won’t approve the shipment of military aid to Ukraine. If Ukraine were allowed to join NATO, NATO would be obliged to fight alongside member nation Ukraine in accordance with its charter. NATO would refuse, thereby destroying its original purpose and rendering it a laughingstock with no credibility.
 

Wings Like Eagles

Well-Known Member
I keep reading that Russia no longer feels secure and that Washington is ignoring all their signs. Also Russia does not want Ukraine in NATO, but I don't know why.
How would you feel if China and N. Korea made some kind of treaty with Cuba and put nuclear missiles in there? That is territory that has already been visited with the old USSR (Cuban Missile Crisis under Kennedy). The neocons among the RINOs and neolibs among the Dems, are hawks for war with Russia. It is part of the globalist plan to isolate and target Putin and Russia for daring to insist on Russian sovereignty. That is also why they target and isolate any patriotic leader in the Western nations who try to insist on their nation's sovereignty. Orban in Hungary, Bolsonaro in Brazil, Trump in the U.S. etc. They were particularly furious when Trump cancelled U.S. participation in the TPP--a trade deal that would have SERIOUSLY undermined U.S. sovereignty. And why the globalists howled when Trump pulled out of the Kyoto agreement (climate change nonsense).
 

Wings Like Eagles

Well-Known Member
This article explains why Russia will NOT invade the Ukraine, no matter how much the Dems whine "Russia, Russia, Russia" (hint: the Dems and RINOs in Congress have been corrupted by Chinese $$$ to play the hand that pleases the CCP). China has been the enemy of the Western nations for many decades but the Western politicians are too stupid, evil and/or crazy to pay any attention.

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2022/01/one_reason_russia_wont_invade_ukraine.html
 

Wings Like Eagles

Well-Known Member
I agree with the above posts, Putin is just testing how much resistance Biden has before he decides that he can pretty much do what he wants to with nothing more than a mere protest
Putin is a master at strategy and he is quite aware that China wishes to expand into Russia from the Urals eastward. In addition, he really can't afford an expensive and protracted war over the Ukraine. If the Biden administration wants to look the other way while he peacefully takes over the region, then Putin will have won. If not, then Putin will back off and wait for another day--Ukraine isn't going anywhere. China is a much bigger geo-political threat.
 

athenasius

Well-Known Member
Can someone put this in simple terms for me?
I know they want to stop Ukraine from joining the forces opposed to Russia but if Russia invaded and succeeded, what would be the repercussions “biblically speaking” ?
Short answer: Gog wants Magog back under his control before that final invasion of Ezekiel 38 so they can unite as one when they invade.

Here is why that is

NASB 1995 edition
38 And the word of the Lord came to me saying, 2 “Son of man, set your face toward Gog of the land of Magog, the prince of Rosh, Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him 3 and say, ‘Thus says the Lord God, “Behold, I am against you, O Gog, prince of Rosh, Meshech and Tubal. 4 I will turn you about and put hooks into your jaws, and I will bring you out, and all your army, horses and horsemen, all of them splendidly attired, a great company with buckler and shield, all of them wielding swords; 5 Persia, Ethiopia and Put with them, all of them with shield and helmet; 6 Gomer with all its troops; Beth-togarmah from the remote parts of the north with all its troops—many peoples with you.

That is our reason biblically speaking. Rosh, Gog and Magog are key players. In the distant past the Scythian tribes aka MAGOG settled the area around the Black Sea and a good area around. There are other tribes who helped form the Russians of today like the Tatars, the Mongolian Hordes and some Finnish tribes but the bulk of Russia springs from the Scythian roots. And Tatars plus the Golden Horde of Genghis Khan had their origins with the Scythian tribes and the Turkish tribes that relate to Gomer, Meshech and Tubal (all in present day Turkey with the exception of Gomer, part of those tribes split-- one stayed in Turkey while another group went North West into Germany).

Hmm mini rabbit trail of interest here, do you realize that the Turks that are moving into Germany are reuniting with their long lost cousins and vice versa. Jewish literature is quite clear on the roots of Germany being the group of tribes of Gomer that settled in Germany. While the rest of Gomer stayed home and became muslims in the course of history.

I double checked with Dr Ron Rhodes, Dr Andy Woods, Dr Mark Hitchcock and Dr Arnold Fruchtenbaums various books, and discussions on Ezekiel 38 before I wrote in here.

All of them place Magog as the Scythians, who became the southern Russians on the area that is now the Crimea, the Ukraine and some of the "stans" nations. They go back to Josephus and Herodotus and ancient Jewish writings on the people groups and where they settled. Tatars and Mongols enter into the Russian mix as well so it's not all Scythian but those others are close relations to the Scythian tribes and probably date back to Magog as that common ancestor in the division of nations.

So, you might wonder where Russia comes in then. Most modern translations erase the term ROSH and translate it as chief prince even though Gog is already defined as the prince. It's why I used the NASB 95 edition because it is grammatically correct with the Hebrew and is in line with the Jewish teachings on who we are talking about and ROSH is Russia in spite of the current push to erase Rosh and replace it as chief prince (adjective) rather than ROSH as a NOUN describing a place.

In Northern Storm Rising Dr Ron Rhodes explains the consensus opinion on the word ROSH. He, Dr Hitchcock, Dr Woods and Dr Fruchtenbaum all explain the misunderstanding that happens with that word being used as an adjective-- "chief prince" as most English Bibles translate it because according to Hebrew grammar, they all say it should be ROSH as the ancient Hebrew texts all read, and as the Hebrew grammar is followed it means a noun or name of an area. Fruchtenbaum gives the short version in his Footsteps of the Messiah on pages 107-108

Dr Andy Woods in his book The Middle East Meltdown devotes Chapter 1 to the question of who these players are and where they live nowadays.

Dr Hitchcock in Russia Rising explains the same noun vs adjective confusion and explains why the ONLY way that the word Rosh can be used in here and be grammatically correct in Hebrew is as a place name. And yes it's Russia. he lists the historical sources including Herodotus and Josephus as well as Hebrew sources.

All of them link Gog (that prince that rises out of Magog which Russia historically did-- moving north ward from that Ukrainian area) as the key leader/prince of RUSSIA

BUT EVEN IF YOU LEAVE ROSH OUT OF IT, Magog is still the ancestor of the modern Russian people as well as the Ukrainians and many of the surrounding muslim "stan" nations.

So regardless of Rosh it boils down to the fact that Gog wants Magog back under his control before that final invasion.

It's a long explanation but for more on the whole Ezek 38 I do recommend the books and authors listed.

for a good easy overview to start off reading about prophecy I always recommend
Jack Kelley's 7 Things You Have to Know to Understand Bible Prophecy and while we are in with Jack, that book on Page 754 goes into the fact there are over 130 historical references that demonstrate Magog is the father of today's Russian people. And he is in agreement with the above.
 

athenasius

Well-Known Member
I keep reading that Russia no longer feels secure and that Washington is ignoring all their signs. Also Russia does not want Ukraine in NATO, but I don't know why.
Because NATO is their enemy. And the Ukraine used to belong to Russia and under Russian control during the Soviet era.

Putin's actions are all about regaining lost territory, influence and power.

Russian history shows 2 unique habits

they feel safer with a bunch of disposable countries between themselves and the motherland or Mother Russia as it's personified. They can use the disposables such as the Ukraine, Poland and the Baltics as cannon fodder as needed.

I've spoken of their use of General Winter (another personification they use) in their wars. I got it mixed up in a previous thread and said it was Josephus who mentioned this unique characteristic but it was Herodotus and it was known of them before the time of Christ.

They would ride out, attack a country on the far borders, then retreat, drawing the enemy in thru the "cannon fodder" areas and northwards towards the heart of Russia and wait for winter to finish off the enemy army. The enemy weakened by long supply lines, and difficulty fighting in winter would finally succumb.

In modern times, Napoleon and Hitler both found themselves losing to the Russian use of winter warfare.
 

athenasius

Well-Known Member
I think we're heading into a period of great upheaval, and only the actions of the Restrainer will keep some kind of a lid on it, at least in terms of mr. fix it being revealed. But I think we'll see major stage setting
Meanwhile, Russia supplies natural gas to Europe, so they probably won't do much in terms of effective protest. Israel is supposed to start supplying gas to Europe in a few years, but Biden just came out about a week ago and said he now opposes that project. If it does wind up going through, that's competition for Russia, which they're not going to like. Or if it doesn't, Israel is still sitting on a ton of natural resources that will be attractive. Regardless of their relationship now, Russia will be coming to take a spoil soon (Ezekiel 38-39).
AMEN!

Whether we see Russia take over now, or it takes a few years, it depends on what God allows via the Restrainer, and what is necessary in this time of history leading up to the Tribulation.

It's like how the Restrainer has kept the economic bubble from bursting, the mother of all meltdowns. it's coming, but it's definitely being restrained for a certain time. It should have happened many times over by now. But it doesn't. So the invasion of the Ukraine may follow that pattern or we may see it happen to set the stage as you said upthread.
 
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Wings Like Eagles

Well-Known Member
Short answer: Gog wants Magog back under his control before that final invasion of Ezekiel 38 so they can unite as one when they invade.

Here is why that is

NASB 1995 edition
38 And the word of the Lord came to me saying, 2 “Son of man, set your face toward Gog of the land of Magog, the prince of Rosh, Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him 3 and say, ‘Thus says the Lord God, “Behold, I am against you, O Gog, prince of Rosh, Meshech and Tubal. 4 I will turn you about and put hooks into your jaws, and I will bring you out, and all your army, horses and horsemen, all of them splendidly attired, a great company with buckler and shield, all of them wielding swords; 5 Persia, Ethiopia and Put with them, all of them with shield and helmet; 6 Gomer with all its troops; Beth-togarmah from the remote parts of the north with all its troops—many peoples with you.

That is our reason biblically speaking. Rosh, Gog and Magog are key players. In the distant past the Scythian tribes aka MAGOG settled the area around the Black Sea and a good area around. There are other tribes who helped form the Russians of today like the Tatars, the Mongolian Hordes and some Finnish tribes but the bulk of Russia springs from the Scythian roots. And Tatars plus the Golden Horde of Genghis Khan had their origins with the Scythian tribes and the Turkish tribes that relate to Gomer, Meshech and Tubal (all in present day Turkey with the exception of Gomer, part of those tribes split-- one stayed in Turkey while another group went North West into Germany).

Hmm mini rabbit trail of interest here, do you realize that the Turks that are moving into Germany are reuniting with their long lost cousins and vice versa. Jewish literature is quite clear on the roots of Germany being the group of tribes of Gomer that settled in Germany. While the rest of Gomer stayed home and became muslims in the course of history.

I double checked with Dr Ron Rhodes, Dr Andy Woods, Dr Mark Hitchcock and Dr Arnold Fruchtenbaums various books, and discussions on Ezekiel 38 before I wrote in here.

All of them place Magog as the Scythians, who became the southern Russians on the area that is now the Crimea, the Ukraine and some of the "stans" nations. They go back to Josephus and Herodotus and ancient Jewish writings on the people groups and where they settled. Tatars and Mongols enter into the Russian mix as well so it's not all Scythian but those others are close relations to the Scythian tribes and probably date back to Magog as that common ancestor in the division of nations.

So, you might wonder where Russia comes in then. Most modern translations erase the term ROSH and translate it as chief prince even though Gog is already defined as the prince. It's why I used the NASB 95 edition because it is grammatically correct with the Hebrew and is in line with the Jewish teachings on who we are talking about and ROSH is Russia in spite of the current push to erase Rosh and replace it as chief prince (adjective) rather than ROSH as a NOUN describing a place.

In Northern Storm Rising Dr Ron Rhodes explains the consensus opinion on the word ROSH. He, Dr Hitchcock, Dr Woods and Dr Fruchtenbaum all explain the misunderstanding that happens with that word being used as an adjective-- "chief prince" as most English Bibles translate it because according to Hebrew grammar, they all say it should be ROSH as the ancient Hebrew texts all read, and as the Hebrew grammar is followed it means a noun or name of an area. Fruchtenbaum gives the short version in his Footsteps of the Messiah on pages 107-108

Dr Andy Woods in his book The Middle East Meltdown devotes Chapter 1 to the question of who these players are and where they live nowadays.

Dr Hitchcock in Russia Rising explains the same noun vs adjective confusion and explains why the ONLY way that the word Rosh can be used in here and be grammatically correct in Hebrew is as a place name. And yes it's Russia. he lists the historical sources including Herodotus and Josephus as well as Hebrew sources.

All of them link Gog (that prince that rises out of Magog which Russia historically did-- moving north ward from that Ukrainian area) as the key leader/prince of RUSSIA

BUT EVEN IF YOU LEAVE ROSH OUT OF IT, Magog is still the ancestor of the modern Russian people as well as the Ukrainians and many of the surrounding muslim "stan" nations.

So regardless of Rosh it boils down to the fact that Gog wants Magog back under his control before that final invasion.

It's a long explanation but for more on the whole Ezek 38 I do recommend the books and authors listed.

for a good easy overview to start off reading about prophecy I always recommend
Jack Kelley's 7 Things You Have to Know to Understand Bible Prophecy and while we are in with Jack, that book on Page 754 goes into the fact there are over 130 historical references that demonstrate Magog is the father of today's Russian people. And he is in agreement with the above.

here are the books I checked with before answering just to be sure:

Dr Arnold Fruchtenbaum Footsteps of the Messiah
Dr Mark Hitchcock Russia Rising, Iran and Israel, Isis Iran and Israel and the End of Days, The End a Complete Overview of Bible Prophecy
Dr Ron Rhodes Northern Storm Rising, The End Times in Chronological Order: a Complete Overview
Dr Andy Woods The Middle East Meltdown
I don't believe that "Rosh" is Russia. If anything very far to the north, it would be Ukraine or one of the "Stan" countries.
 

athenasius

Well-Known Member
I don't believe that "Rosh" is Russia. If anything very far to the north, it would be Ukraine or one of the "Stan" countries.
We can agree to disagree, it doesn't affect the main point which is the actual parties involved and their current actions leading to future fulfillments of prophecy. I've done a fair bit of reading on it, as I'm sure you have too, and the sources I quote make very good arguments, but there is always another side. I didn't mention Dr Thomas Ice but he has some thoughts on that too. Dr Ron Rhodes quotes him as another of several more who are of that persuasion, in the above book I listed.
 

Chris

Administrator
Staff member
I can't think offhand how Ukraine would factor into Bible prophecy, but I do think Russia "getting away" with any moves on Ukraine and a weak overall response from the world community would only embolden Russia to consider doing even more. China and Iran are watching with great interest in regards to Taiwan and the Middle East.

I posted an article on the main site last night but have not gotten it posted on the forums yet. It explains some of what is going on. You can find the link here:

https://www.raptureforums.com/politics-culture-wars/europes-weak-response-to-russia/
 

daygo

Well-Known Member
I can't think offhand how Ukraine would factor into Bible prophecy, but I do think Russia "getting away" with any moves on Ukraine and a weak overall response from the world community would only embolden Russia to consider doing even more. China and Iran are watching with great interest.

I posted an article on the main site last night but have not gotten it posted on the forums yet. It explains some what is going on. You can find the link here:

https://www.raptureforums.com/politics-culture-wars/europes-weak-response-to-russia/
With you Chris, think Ukraine is a bit of red herring just can't see Ukraine being part of it, not yet anyway. Will read article later have a naughty puppy to contend with.
 
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athenasius

Well-Known Member
With you Chris, think Ukraine is a bit of red herring just can't see Ukraine being part of it, not yet anyway. Will read article later have a naughty puppy to contend with.
Oh daygo, I love that you have that naughty puppy to keep you busy, I'm so glad. The world can just wait while we care for puppies and small children. There was a lovely poem about young mothers and how dust and dishes pile up, but it can all wait because the babies need cuddling, and they don't wait, they grow up too fast. Same with puppies and kittens. Tell the world to go away, and give that puppy joy as I know you do!
 
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