Were/are dragons real?

Salluz

You mean we can change these titles?
Here's an article from answers in Genesis that I liked, especially considering some of the discussions about behemoth and leviathan that pop up here occasionally. It takes the position that the descriptions of dragons in the Bible like leviathan are literal and gives scriptural and historical support for dragons and dinosaurs

https://answersingenesis.org/dinosaurs/were-dragons-real/
 

TrustinHim

Well-Known Member
Here's an article from answers in Genesis that I liked, especially considering some of the discussions about behemoth and leviathan that pop up here occasionally. It takes the position that the descriptions of dragons in the Bible like leviathan are literal and gives scriptural and historical support for dragons and dinosaurs

https://answersingenesis.org/dinosaurs/were-dragons-real/
I think so ,at least legends of such creatures as recent as the late middle ages. Some describe dinosaur like creatures not necessarily fire breathing. Dinosaur is a recent name for what others would have called a dragon.
 

Salluz

You mean we can change these titles?
I think so ,at least legends of such creatures as recent as the late middle ages. Some describe dinosaur like creatures not necessarily fire breathing. Dinosaur is a recent name for what others would have called a dragon.
The article makes the case of there being different types of [editted from dinosaurs] dragons: some fire breathing, some venomous, some neither--and says what we call dinosaurs would have been a sub-group of dragon
 
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Salluz

You mean we can change these titles?
It also scored a point for the KJV for me indirectly. I've grown up as a staunch NIV guy, but the translation of numbers 21 surprised me. The snakes are translated as venomous in the NIV, but the KJV calls them "fiery" snakes. Sure enough, the word in Hebrew is seraph, like the seraphim "burning ones" angels that filled the temple with smoke when Isaiah started his ministry.

Were these fire-breathing serpents (dragons) that assaulted the Israelites?

Apparently other places in the bible mention flying fiery serpents specifically, and they have a table with verses so anyone can confirm.
 

LisaJoe1986

Well-Known Member
Here's an article from answers in Genesis that I liked, especially considering some of the discussions about behemoth and leviathan that pop up here occasionally. It takes the position that the descriptions of dragons in the Bible like leviathan are literal and gives scriptural and historical support for dragons and dinosaurs

https://answersingenesis.org/dinosaurs/were-dragons-real/
When you walk into the Creation Museum in Northern KY, the dragon exhibit is the first thing you come to. It is fascinating to see all the legends throughout time that really can be interpreted as dragons.
 

Salluz

You mean we can change these titles?
I guess that would depend on what neighborhood I lived in. It would an excellent watch dino.
Two funny stories.

Once when I was in elementary school, we were told we were taking a field trip to a local raptor (bird of prey) sanctuary. I was obsessed with dinosaurs as a kid, and incredulously said, "I thought all the raptors were extinct!" My teacher told me that no, they were still around, and we were going to see them. Imagine my disappointment when it was only hawks and eagles.

Other story: my family knew I loved fantasy things, so they got together and told me they were going to buy me a dragon. You know I was immediately convinced they meant one that could fly and breathe fire, and I was extremely excited imagining it. They bought me a bearded dragon. I still liked having a lizard, but I really wished ol' Spike could fly and breathe fire.

I'd absolutely have a pet raptor if it were tame enough to not kill me :lol
 

athenasius

Well-Known Member
Yes I think they were real. #1 the biblical accounts of the seraph things that tormented the Israelites in the wilderness as @Salluz said.

#2 is the sheer volume of accounts all over the world about large flying fire breathing dragons. China celebrates them every year but they aren't the only ones that speak of this. There are a number of myths and legends (that took on tall tale aspects-- growing in size and strength with every retelling) everywhere. But if the common elements are sifted out, they do resemble the seraph things.

It's kind of fun to think about, now that they are wiped out. Some extinctions of various animals were a GOOD THING as Martha Stewart might say! :wink

The Anglo Saxon epic poem Beowulf has a monster Grendel that has aspects of this. Grendel is translated this way according to Wikipedia. What is interesting to note is the vaguely human shape, the gigantic size and weight of the head and the impenetrable scales covering it's hide.


"Seamus Heaney, in his translation of Beowulf, writes in lines 1351–1355 that Grendel is vaguely human in shape, though much larger:

... the other, warped in the shape of a man, moves beyond the pale bigger than any man, an unnatural birth called Grendel by the country people in former days.

Heaney's translation of lines 1637–1639 also notes that Grendel's disembodied head is so large that it takes four men to transport it. Furthermore, in lines 983–989, when Grendel's torn arm is inspected, Heaney describes it as being covered in impenetrable scales and horny growths:

Every nail, claw-scale and spur, every spike and welt on the hand of that heathen brute was like barbed steel. Everybody said there was no honed iron hard enough to pierce him through, no time proofed blade that could cut his brutal blood caked claw"
 

Salluz

You mean we can change these titles?
Yes I think they were real. #1 the biblical accounts of the seraph things that tormented the Israelites in the wilderness as @Salluz said.

#2 is the sheer volume of accounts all over the world about large flying fire breathing dragons. China celebrates them every year but they aren't the only ones that speak of this. There are a number of myths and legends (that took on tall tale aspects-- growing in size and strength with every retelling) everywhere. But if the common elements are sifted out, they do resemble the seraph things.

It's kind of fun to think about, now that they are wiped out. Some extinctions of various animals were a GOOD THING as Martha Stewart might say! :wink

The Anglo Saxon epic poem Beowulf has a monster Grendel that has aspects of this. Grendel is translated this way according to Wikipedia. What is interesting to note is the vaguely human shape, the gigantic size and weight of the head and the impenetrable scales covering it's hide.


"Seamus Heaney, in his translation of Beowulf, writes in lines 1351–1355 that Grendel is vaguely human in shape, though much larger:

... the other, warped in the shape of a man, moves beyond the pale bigger than any man, an unnatural birth called Grendel by the country people in former days.

Heaney's translation of lines 1637–1639 also notes that Grendel's disembodied head is so large that it takes four men to transport it. Furthermore, in lines 983–989, when Grendel's torn arm is inspected, Heaney describes it as being covered in impenetrable scales and horny growths:

Every nail, claw-scale and spur, every spike and welt on the hand of that heathen brute was like barbed steel. Everybody said there was no honed iron hard enough to pierce him through, no time proofed blade that could cut his brutal blood caked claw"
I'll have to bring it up in English class that Beowulf ripped the arm off of a dinosaur :lol that's even more impressive than ripping the arm off of a tall, malformed, evil man.

Interestingly enough Beowulf also kills (and is killed by) a traditional dragon at the end of the poem. His sword breaks when he tries to cut the dragon's neck, but he manages to kill it with a cut to the belly. Beowulf's dragon is both fire-breathing and venomous.

Sounds suspiciously similar to a fiery serpent that would kill a wandering Israelite if it bit them... wonder if they were cousins
 
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athenasius

Well-Known Member
I'll have to bring it up in English class that Beowulf ripped the arm off of a dinosaur :lol that's even more impressive than ripping the arm off of a tall, malformed, evil man.

Interestingly enough Beowulf also kills (and is killed by) a traditional dragon at the end of the poem. His sword breaks when he tries to cut the dragon's neck, but he manages to kill it with a cut to the belly. Beowulf's dragon is both fire-breathing and venomous.

Sounds suspiciously similar to a fiery serpent that would kill a wandering Israelite if it bit them... wonder if they were cousins
Salluz, if you are bringing it up in a class on literature, it's also interesting that there seem to be 2 classes of fiery serpent type things that are described in English folk lore and tales.

1 are the smaller type-- much like the seraph possibly
2 are the larger type -- more like the Chinese version of a dragon.

Both are deadly, both versions have a scaly hide, both versions are hard to kill and some descriptions include a poisonous gas that their blood emits when you do manage to cut them. The Yorkshire one I think mentions a poison that got onto the hero's outfit, and killed his dog, then him after he successfully did in the dastardly dragon critter.
 

Footsteps

Well-Known Member
Two funny stories.

Once when I was in elementary school, we were told we were taking a field trip to a local raptor (bird of prey) sanctuary. I was obsessed with dinosaurs as a kid, and incredulously said, "I thought all the raptors were extinct!" My teacher told me that no, they were still around, and we were going to see them. Imagine my disappointment when it was only hawks and eagles.

Other story: my family knew I loved fantasy things, so they got together and told me they were going to buy me a dragon. You know I was immediately convinced they meant one that could fly and breathe fire, and I was extremely excited imagining it. They bought me a bearded dragon. I still liked having a lizard, but I really wished ol' Spike could fly and breathe fire.

I'd absolutely have a pet raptor if it were tame enough to not kill me :lol
You can live your child's fantasy of a friendly pet dragon on whose back four children fly to save their own village. Google "The Secret of Blue Dragon Valley" to order an inexpensive copy of the tale of praying children who find "Levi" (a benevolent descendant of Leviathan) who saves the day without burning a soul (though he can do it).
 

InsuranceGuy

Well-Known Member
I believe dinosaurs/dragons were around much longer with man than we, or science, believe. There are too many stories, even well into the 1600's and after, of large rand roving animals that could be described as a dinosaur or dragon. Even in the Middle Ages, there were reports of flying dragons. At some points, man likely killed them all, but probably more recently than we think. I've always been interested in what we may find in the deepest oceans if we were so inclined to actually research them. Who knows what still exists in the depths of the oceans.
 

Kaatje

Listening for that trumpet sound
I believe dinosaurs/dragons were around much longer with man than we, or science, believe. There are too many stories, even well into the 1600's and after, of large rand roving animals that could be described as a dinosaur or dragon. Even in the Middle Ages, there were reports of flying dragons. At some points, man likely killed them all, but probably more recently than we think. I've always been interested in what we may find in the deepest oceans if we were so inclined to actually research them. Who knows what still exists in the depths of the oceans.
:agree
 
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