We are not appointed to wrath

[newtofaith]

If people who believe in Christ are not appointed to wrath why are the tribulation saints (that may turn to Christ in the first seal after we have gone) appointed to wrath (possibly all the way until the end of the tribulation)?
Why would he save us and not those that turn to him in the tribulation? Why do they have to suffer?
It almost goes against his word and I am confused.
Please could someone help me with this.
Many thanks

 

[Matthew6:33]

1 Thes 5:9 is addressing the Church (bride of Christ). After the rapture, there is no more Church, we will be joined with Christ and forever be with him.

As far as why some will need to go through wrath... In my feeble and finite human mind, I conceptualize it like this. Sometimes people are stubborn and they need to go through certain life experiences before they will humble themselves and submit to God and put their own will aside (we witness this all the time). I am sure there are others that can explain it better than I, but this is how I understand it.

 

[Betty]

Sadly, just as some won't leave a bad relationship until their very lives are in danger, there are people who love this world too much to turn to God. There are others who are filled with so much pride that they refuse to admit that they need salvation. It will literally take the tribulation to bring them to their knees before God. The Bible makes it clear that most people will never accept salvation, because of their self-pride, God will allow them to believe the delusions of satan.
Betty

 

[Salluz]

Why would he save us and not those that turn to him in the tribulation? Why do they have to suffer?
It almost goes against his word and I am confused.
Please could someone help me with this.
Many thanks

He does save the people that turn to Him in the tribulation, an innumerable amount from every tribe nation and tongue (see rev. 7). He provides 144,000 Jewish evangelists and then an angel to proclaim the gospel worldwide and to warn people not to take the mark of the beast. The vast majority will die from the antichrist, but they are still saved to spend eternity with God. Some will even survive the tribulation and populate the nations during the millennium after the sheep and goat judgment.

The Church is a special case to God because we are meant to show everyone the incomparable riches of His grace in the ages to come (Eph. 2:6-7) and because we are blessed having never seen Jesus or God at work and still believing

John 20:29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

We of the Church are given eternal security and the promise of the Rapture. Tribulation saints are at least given the promise that anyone who endures to the end (of their life or the tribulation) will be saved (Matt 24:13)

 

[newtofaith]

Thank you for all the replies.
Much appreciated.

 

[Tall Timbers]

It almost goes against his word and I am confused.

I don't believe I can assuage your confusion or concerns for our Tribulation saints. What we know about those years, the Tribulation we learn from the Word.

John 1:1-5

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

God's Word to us is perfect in every way. Everything He commands and carries out is perfect in every way. God is love. God is truth. When we wrestle with perceived injustices that are or are coming, we simply do not understand. We have brains that are very limited. We have bodies that are very limited. The best thing we can do is trust our Creator, our Savior, our King. God has our best interests in mind. He turns things that seem awful in our lives to good.

Yes, Tribulation saints will suffer and many, probably most, will be killed for their faith. What a blessing to die for Jesus! God will turn everything that Tribulation Saints experience during those horrible years to good and it is probable that all of Christ's children will be blessed by the good in our Tribulation Saint's eternal beings. While our Tribulation saints will not be sealed with the Holy Spirit, they will not be alone, and I expect they'll know many blessings while they live and like us, incredible blessings once their mortal lives are complete.

For those Tribulation saints who survive Tribulation, how wonderful it will be to live such a long life that you can have your great great great grandchildren on your knee all the while living under the protection of a perfect government. I'd love that but I've not been chosen for that.

The bottom line, trust God with your all and your all, and nothing less. Don't let an inability to grasp the fullness of the Word create a barrier between you and God, but continue to seek the fullness of the Word in Truth.

 

[Belle of Grace]

The Church is a special case to God because we are meant to show everyone the incomparable riches of His grace in the ages to come (Eph. 2:6-7) and because we are blessed having never seen Jesus or God at work and still believing.

That's right, Salluz. So often, people overlook the point you're making.
In the tribulation, there will be 'lots' of obvious signs being fulfilled right before everyone's eyes. The 144,000 young Jewish men will have Bibles (both OT and the New this time ), so the true gospel will be taught by them and the two Witnesses. The gospel has been preached for 2,000 years. Many of the people who are going through the Tribulation, owned a Bible in their own language, yet they refused to read & accept it for themselves. The Tribulation with the gospel will help them to understand that this is serious and is not to be taken lightly.

 

[Belle of Grace]

The bottom line, trust God with your all and all, and nothing less. Don't let an inability to grasp the fullness of the Word create a barrier between you and God, but continue to seek the fullness of the Word in Truth.

Amen! Excellent way of saying it!

 

[Jan51]

The Church is a special case to God because we are meant to show everyone the incomparable riches of His grace in the ages to come (Eph. 2:6-7) and because we are blessed having never seen Jesus or God at work and still believing

John 20:29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

I like this idea as to why. All of the church except the very first believers have believed while not seeing Christ or His miracles, but the tribulation saints will all have witnessed the rapture--an event similar to the resurrection in its impact on those who witness it. So the church receives a special blessing. Those who refuse to believe until after they witness the rapture miss that blessing.

 

[Love His Appearing]

I have spent a lot of time thinking--but not studying-- this as well. I had a pretty good grasp on the gospel until I came to RF and heard for the first time that the rules are different for the trib saints than they are for us. I haven't made sense of that part yet, but it doesn't seem clear to me how they would KNOW that when most of the church and many bible scholars don't. It seems so foreign to me that the greatest part of the gospel--GRACE-- isn't meant for trib saints and they will be responsible for maintaining their own salvation? Honestly, I don't think I even believe that, but I know many of you do.

I think the best explanation I have heard is that they missed their chance. Once the church age ends and the tribulation begins, it's an entirely new dispensation. They WILL BE SAVED, they just wont enjoy the blessed hope of escaping that which is to come.

 

[Tall Timbers]

GRACE-- isn't meant for trib saints

Grace is for everyone saved across the ages. None of us, no matter the dispensation we live/lived/will live in deserve to be saved. It is only by the grace of God! From Adam to the last person born during the millennium reign, it is by God's grace.

 

[RonJohnSilver]

When the church age ends and the tribulation time begins, God's attention fully shifts to Israel. As such, salvation is much the same as it was during the O.T. times. In the O.T., salvation was by believing in the messiah, although that person (Jesus) had yet to appear. So, it was their faith in the coming messiah. They showed that faith by the ceremonies, festivals and sacrifices that were commanded by God to Moses. So, their faith was shown or proven by their works. Their works did not save them but were only evidence of that faith.

Now, in the tribulation age, it will be similar to the O.T. in that people will still have to believe in and put their faith in the messiah, now known as Jesus, and their works will give evidence of that faith. In that time, though, their works will be shown by how they treat the Jews. That's why, in Matthew 25, Jesus talks of when "...when you visited me in prison, etc." And he concludes with "...by doing so to the least of these (Jews), you did it unto me." So, the tribulation 'saints' still have to put their faith in the Savior (Jesus) and prove it by their works, just as the O.T. saints did.

The church age saints (us), because we have not seen either Jesus or his miracles, but believe simply and totally on faith, are exempted from the proving aspect. Our 'proof' is the indwelling of the H.S. We don't have to prove anything. The proof is within us. And only us. At the heart of anyone's salvation though, is faith in Jesus. Always and for everyone.

 

[Jan51]

Once the church age ends and the tribulation begins, it's an entirely new dispensation.

Not a new dispensation, but more a return to the old--the final week/seven of the 70 weeks of Daniel.

 

[Matthew6:33]

This is a great thread!!!

God's attention fully shifts to Israel. As such, salvation is much the same as it was during the O.T. times. In the O.T., salvation was by believing in the messiah, although that person (Jesus) had yet to appear. So, it was their faith in the coming messiah. They showed that faith by the ceremonies, festivals and sacrifices that were commanded by God to Moses. So, their faith was shown or proven by their works. Their works did not save them but were only evidence of that faith.

and this was the downfall of the Pharisees, the religious folks in Jesus' time. They trusted their works (their righteousness aka pride) to save them, they never did the works by faith-- now that I think about it, they were looking for a false messiah, similar to how many in the tribulation will look to the antichrist as their messiah. They want a messiah that will give them what they want (do their will), not a Messiah that will do God's will and fulfill His purpose in the scripture (whatever that may be, even if it is something we could not think or imagine as many times God works in this way).

In the OT their was only a small glimpse of the suffering Messiah that had to come first. Those who were really watching and really waiting were the ones that saw Jesus as the true Messiah. This is also an illustration of how we watch and wait for Jesus today in faith!

 

[JStar]

Romans 9:18 “Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.” God has a unlimited plan and some things we will never understand until we are in our glorified bodies.
For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.

 

[Andiamo]

Well I am very grateful that my unsaved family and friends have one more chance after we are gone. I see this more as a wonderful extension of God's grace and mercy. He could have cut off everyone but the Jews after the rapture, but didn't. He gives one last call and one final chance, and this time, its with supernatural things happening left and right...even an angel preaching! Sometimes I am blown away at the love and mercy of God. Makes me think about how much time Jesus spent with any pharisee who would listen. Even as they rejected Him, Jesus extended His hand by His words, over and over.

 

[daygo]

Well I am very grateful that my unsaved family and friends have one more chance after we are gone. I see this more as a wonderful extension of God's grace and mercy. He could have cut off everyone but the Jews after the rapture, but didn't. He gives one last call and one final chance, and this time, its with supernatural things happening left and right...even an angel preaching! Sometimes I am blown away at the love and mercy of God. Makes me think about how much time Jesus spent with any pharisee who would listen. Even as they rejected Him, Jesus extended His hand by His words, over and over.

Yes spot on.

 

[newtofaith]

Salluz, you have cleared it up for me.Thank you. I felt that it was almost a contradiction when Jesus says that believers are saved from wrath but so many saints will die in the tribulation. John 20:29 really helps me to understand.
Also, as a side note, when I read that line my whole body started tingling and a whoosh electricity flowed through me. I get that when I have to pay close attention to something. It's a wake up call!

 

[Chris]

Salluz, you have cleared it up for me.Thank you. I felt that it was almost a contradiction when Jesus says that believers are saved from wrath but so many saints will die in the tribulation. John 20:29 really helps me to understand.
Also, as a side note, when I read that line my whole body started tingling and a whoosh electricity flowed through me. I get that when I have to pay close attention to something. It's a wake up call!

Tribulation saints are those who missed the rapture because they did not make a decision for Christ in time. They are people who delayed making a decision for Christ and who were likely fence-sitters who were looking for one more ounce of proof before making a decision for salvation.

When the rapture happens, to their shock and surprise, they will remember what we told them and they will finally come to faith in Jesus Christ. But it will come at a price and that is most likely their martyrdom for Jesus Christ in the Tribulation period.

Perhaps this will explain some:

Tribulation Saints
By Jack Kelley Tuesday

Question: I have a question about your study of Revelation 7. In the last 4 paragraphs you talk about the tribulation saints having a privileged existence in eternity, but yet you mention that they will not sit on a throne at the side of their beloved and will not share in God’s inheritance. Can you explain this further? This is really interesting.

Answer: The destiny of Tribulation Saints is different from that of the Church, and Rev. 7:15-17 explains this. It says they’ll be before the Throne of God and will serve Him day and night in His Temple. But notice they are not called priests.

Also, His Temple will be on Earth, not in the New Jerusalem where the Church will reside. In fact Rev. 21:22 says there won’t be a Temple in the New Jerusalem at all.

But God Himself will see to their well-being and will wipe every tear from their eyes. And Jesus will be their shepherd, leading them to springs of living water.

As I said, theirs will be a privileged existence, but nowhere does it refer to them as Kings and Priests, or as the Bride of Christ, seated with Him in the Heavenly realms.

https://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/tribulation-saints/

 

[Bethlehem57]

Well I am very grateful that my unsaved family and friends have one more chance after we are gone. I see this more as a wonderful extension of God's grace and mercy. He could have cut off everyone but the Jews after the rapture, but didn't. He gives one last call and one final chance, and this time, its with supernatural things happening left and right...even an angel preaching! Sometimes I am blown away at the love and mercy of God. Makes me think about how much time Jesus spent with any pharisee who would listen. Even as they rejected Him, Jesus extended His hand by His words, over and over.

I hold out hope in this too, especially for my unsaved family. I also believe that when the rapture takes place, many will die because of those who have been removed that were driving, piloting airplanes and helicopters, at the helms of ships, etc.,

From everything I have read, the rapture itself will help out good oil’ Briben’s population control. Praying daily for those who don’t go and at one time were saved, to be spared from any circumstances from our departure, but also that they return to the Lord before it’s too late!

Even so come quickly Lord Jesus!