was Judas a Christian?

[Wings Like Eagles]

Not repenting of any sin before death has no bearing on the eternal destination of a saved Christian. Heaven bound.

Even if it is the first time of repentance in his life?

 

[Wings Like Eagles]

I'm not saying that one has to repent of every single sin in order to be saved--there are probably some that we don't even remember (although the Holy Spirit is very good at bringing all sins to our minds, after we are saved--giving us the privilege of repenting of them). What I am saying is that acknowledging before God that we are sinners in need of a Savior, and turning from our wicked ways is the evidence of repentance. Remember that Peter said, "[God] does not want anyone to be destroyed, but wants everyone to repent." (2 Peter 3:9c) The first time someone repents could very well be just moments before death.

 

[Wings Like Eagles]

That is correct, brother. The ONLY sin that keeps one from Heaven is refusal to admit one is a sinner and, consequently, the rejection of Christ's sacrifice for sin. Salvation is entirely by faith alone in Christ alone according to the Word of God alone. Our sins are covered and not imputed against us because we are considered righteous due exclusively to our faith in Christ's finished work on Calvary. This is made clear by Paul in Romans 4:1-8. Verse 8 in particular literally reads: "Blessed the man whose sin the Lord will never count against him.". Not "who is free of sin" but "whose sin...will never count against him."

It is important to note that the verb translated "count against" or, in some translations, "reckon" is in the aorist subjunctive. This verb form describes a definite action resulting from a prior action. As one Greek scholar puts it : "If the subjunctive mood is used in a purpose or result clause, then the action should not be thought of as a possible result, but should be viewed as a definite outcome that will happen as a result of another stated action."

So, since the context of this entire passage is Paul's argument of righteousness before God by faith, it is clear that he is using this verb and verb form to make it clear that such righteousness ALONE results in our sins not being counted against us by God. Anything else taught is an aspect of legalism that denies the full gospel of Jesus Christ. Sadly many churches and many Christians do not understand this truth, and so live trying to obey law in order to keep their salvation, when that salvation is guaranteed forever by their faith in Christ and His free gift.

Yes, we should seek to live pleasing to God : but not because not to do so would cost us or salvation, but rather because not to do so would bring reproach on His name and also cause a disruption in the precious continual personal relationship we enjoy with Him here.

Paul was quoting Psalm 32 there, a Psalm of David, and the entire Psalm, including the part quoted by Paul, is a Psalm of repentance as well as a Psalm of faith (see verse 3).

 

[Andy C]

Even if it is the first time of repentance in his life?

Repentance is often misunderstood by Christians for the correct definition

Jack Kelley said


“If you look up the meaning of the Greek word translated repent you’ll find the common understanding of repentance is not consistent with the Greek word from which it comes. The word is metanoeo and literally means to change one’s mind about something. It is not connected to changing behavior.

Every born again believer has changed his or her mind about several things pertaining to salvation;
1. that he or she is a sinner in need of a savior and is hopelessly lost without one (Romans 3:23),
2. that Jesus died for his or her sins and has agreed to be that savior (John 3:16),
3. that God will immediately and unconditionally grant salvation to everyone who asks in faith (Matt. 7:7-8).

These are things unbelievers don’t accept. Therefore, according to a correct understanding of the word, every born again believer has repented.

This is the reason that repentance was more strongly emphasized among the Jews (Acts 2:38) than among the Gentiles (Romans 10:9). Jews had been (incorrectly) taught that their salvation was solely dependent upon their obedience to the Law and needed to change their minds about their need for a savior. Most Gentiles had not been taught anything about salvation and didn’t need to change their minds.

It is true that most believers will find their behavior changing after being saved. But that’s a response to the Holy Spirit’s prompting and is evidence of their gratitude for the free gift they’ve received. It’s the effect of their salvation, not a condition for receiving it.”

 

[Wings Like Eagles]

Repentance is often misunderstood by Christians for the correct definition

Jack Kelley said


“If you look up the meaning of the Greek word translated repent you’ll find the common understanding of repentance is not consistent with the Greek word from which it comes. The word is metanoeo and literally means to change one’s mind about something. It is not connected to changing behavior.

Every born again believer has changed his or her mind about several things pertaining to salvation;
1. that he or she is a sinner in need of a savior and is hopelessly lost without one (Romans 3:23),
2. that Jesus died for his or her sins and has agreed to be that savior (John 3:16),
3. that God will immediately and unconditionally grant salvation to everyone who asks in faith (Matt. 7:7-8).

These are things unbelievers don’t accept. Therefore, according to a correct understanding of the word, every born again believer has repented.

This is the reason that repentance was more strongly emphasized among the Jews (Acts 2:38) than among the Gentiles (Romans 10:9). Jews had been (incorrectly) taught that their salvation was solely dependent upon their obedience to the Law and needed to change their minds about their need for a savior. Most Gentiles had not been taught anything about salvation and didn’t need to change their minds.

It is true that most believers will find their behavior changing after being saved. But that’s a response to the Holy Spirit’s prompting and is evidence of their gratitude for the free gift they’ve received. It’s the effect of their salvation, not a condition for receiving it.”

I like Jack Kelley--he was a great Christian writer, but that doesn't mean that I agree with every single thing he ever wrote. That having been said, I think confessing one's sins is part of the continuous cleansing by the Holy Spirit. Otherwise, the writer of the Book of James would not have said, "Confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The earnest prayer of a righteous person has great power and produces wonderful results." James makes clear that physical healing was predicated on the confession of sin. Luther preached a radical message out of a reaction to Roman Catholic legalism---he actually hated the Book of James. He also said, "sin with abandon" which the Apostle Paul was decrying in the Book of Romans in his day (see Romans 3:8). I remain unconvinced that repentance is not evidence that one is humble enough to be truly born again. "God resists the proud but gives grace to the humble."

 

[sawas]

Even if it is the first time of repentance in his life?

I should just defer to @Andy C 's response above (which is on point, IMHO), but imagine myself enough of a logician to response to this point. By definition, a "saved Christian" (per Andy's prior comment (included below for reference) would have already repented of his/her past sins (and sin nature) having believed in Christ's power, authority, and desire to provide both forgiveness and pay the required atonement for that debt prior to becoming a Christian. Therefore, if he/she is a "saved Christian" that has already happened. Whether or not he/she subsequently dies (by his/her own hand or not) prior to confessing and repenting for any individual sin (including the desire to commit suicide) would be of no consequence whatsoever. Saved is saved.

Those who reject OSAS (like Catholics, Arminians, and Calvinists - in practical effect) insist that each and every sin (however qualified by its seriousness) can and will disqualify the condition of salvation. They have zero assurance of salvation, even with the most assiduous dedication to holy living. Those who embrace OSAS trust that no one (including themselves) is able to remove what God himself has sealed. Hope that helps.

John 10:28-29 (KJV) - 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.​

​

Ephesians 1:13-14 (KJV) - 13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.​

​

Not repenting of any sin before death has no bearing on the eternal destination of a saved Christian. Heaven bound.

 

[Andy C]

I like Jack Kelley--he was a great Christian writer, but that doesn't mean that I agree with every single thing he ever wrote. That having been said, I think confessing one's sins is part of the continuous cleansing by the Holy Spirit. Otherwise, the writer of the Book of James would not have said, "Confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The earnest prayer of a righteous person has great power and produces wonderful results." James makes clear that physical healing was predicated on the confession of sin. Luther preached a radical message out of a reaction to Roman Catholic legalism---he actually hated the Book of James. He also said, "sin with abandon" which the Apostle Paul was decrying in the Book of Romans in his day (see Romans 3:8). I remain unconvinced that repentance is not evidence that one is humble enough to be truly born again. "God resists the proud but gives grace to the humble."

Failure to confess sin cant end in loss of salvation, but can cause loss of fellowship with Jesus

1 John 1
If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth.

7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.

8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

 

[Wings Like Eagles]

I should just defer to @Andy C 's response above (which is on point, IMHO), but imagine myself enough of a logician to response to this point. By definition, a "saved Christian" (per Andy's prior comment (included below for reference) would have already repented of his/her past sins (and sin nature) having believed in Christ's power, authority, and desire to provide both forgiveness and pay the required atonement for that debt prior to becoming a Christian. Therefore, if he/she is a "saved Christian" that has already happened. Whether or not he/she subsequently dies (by his/her own hand or not) prior to confessing and repenting for any individual sin (including the desire to commit suicide) would be of no consequence whatsoever. Saved is saved.

Those who reject OSAS (like Catholics, Arminians, and Calvinists - in practical effect) insist that each and every sin (however qualified by its seriousness) can and will disqualify the condition of salvation. They have zero assurance of salvation, even with the most assiduous dedication to holy living. Those who embrace OSAS trust that no one (including themselves) is able to remove what God himself has sealed. Hope that helps.

John 10:28-29 (KJV) - 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.​

​

Ephesians 1:13-14 (KJV) - 13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.​

​

I'm a Baptist, I very much believe in Eternal Security (OSAS).

 

[Wings Like Eagles]

Failure to confess sin cant end in loss of salvation, but can cause loss of fellowship with Jesus

1 John 1
If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth.

7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.

8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

I was not arguing that one could lose one's salvation. I'm a Baptist Look at verse 9.

 

[sawas]

I'm a Baptist, I very much believe in Eternal Security (OSAS).

Oh, I didn't actually think or assume otherwise, sorry if I gave you that impression. It mostly sounded like a miscommunication with Andy on the suicide question. I thought I'd articulate (as best I could) for any reader who might not clearly understand the OSAS position. I was mostly worried that your point (if I understood it correctly) might be construed to suggest that a saved Christian could lose his salvation if he/she committed suicide.

 

[Wings Like Eagles]

Oh, I didn't actually think or assume otherwise, sorry if I gave you that impression. It mostly sounded like a miscommunication with Andy on the suicide question. I thought I'd articulate (as best I could) for any reader who might not clearly understand the OSAS position. I was mostly worried that your point (if I understood it correctly) might be construed to suggest that a saved Christian could lose his salvation if he/she committed suicide.

It isn't that I believe that a Christian could not commit suicide (or murder, for that matter) it is that I don't believe that suicide (with rare exception, perhaps) is something that a born again Christian would do, no matter how rough life got for that person. Faith tells us that everything that comes our way, is something that God permits and we must trust Him that He has our good in mind. That is what He tells us: "For I know the plans I have for you,” says the LORD. “They are plans for good and not for disaster, to give you a future and a hope." (Jeremiah 29:11) Job is an example of one who was tested severely yet, in the end, he could see God's redemptive purpose in what he suffered. He had even been challenged toward a suicidal cursing of God. His wife tells him, apparently, in a moment of despair, "Curse God and die." But Job stands his ground and resists until his "friends" start putting doubts in his head. Scripture doesn't say so, but Satan was likely speaking through them. In the end, Job's understanding is greatly increased.

 

[sawas]

Good points there and, to be sure, Job is a good example of dealing with temptations of hopelessness. And, I agree (for the most part, see what I'm hoping to contribute to the thread @Andy C started on this subject). Yet, in moments of weakness, we all sin and this (driven by hopelessness, depression, whatever) is not at all unimaginable to me.

 

[Rocky R.]

@endofdays. I am curious as to your views on suicide, because you seem to be hanging your argument that Judas is in Hell on the fact that he killed himself. Now, I believe Judas is in Hell... but solely on the basis that he rejected Christ and "Satan entered him." And on the words of Christ Himself, who said Judas was a devil.

If anything, the final plight of Judas seems to me to be an evidence of the truth of 2 Corinthians 7:10-- "Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation without regret, but worldly sorrow brings death.“

But that aside, do you believe that suicides are automatically assigned to Hell?

Judas may have been with Jesus Christ, but he didn't have any faith in Him. The Pharisees may have invited Jesus to dinner, but they never invited Him into their hearts.

 

[BrotherKev]

was Judas a Christian?
will we see him in heaven

https://www.enterthebible.org/Contr...ourcebox.aspx?selected_rid=233&original_id=12 When was Judas alivee?

 

[Tall Timbers]

I'm a Baptist, I very much believe in Eternal Security (OSAS).

Which of the 5000 or so different branches?

 

[alisani]

Which of the 5000 or so different branches?

Here in the south you wanna double that number brother. lol And I ain't even including the foot warshers

 

[Tall Timbers]

Here in the south you wanna double that number brother. lol And I ain't even including the foot warshers

And given the reality of the huge number of separate Baptist Congregations, calling oneself a Baptist does not give others the idea what your platform of beliefs and practices are.

 

[alisani]

And given the reality of the huge number of separate Baptist Congregations, calling oneself a Baptist does not give others the idea what your platform of beliefs and practices are.

I don't even think most baptists would be able to tell ya honestly. Down here, in the rural areas, they couldn't tell you what they believe. It's more important that you know how many of their family members are sitting on the various church boards and committees.

Sorry for the hijack folks! I'm heading back for round 2 of pizza!

 

[WaitingForTheTrumpet]

I don't even think most baptists would be able to tell ya honestly. Down here, in the rural areas, they couldn't tell you what they believe. It's more important that you know how many of their family members are sitting on the various church boards and committees.

Sorry for the hijack folks! I'm heading back for round 2 of pizza!

Mmmmm pizza!

 

[Wings Like Eagles]

Which of the 5000 or so different branches?

Here in Canada, there are only a few different types of Baptists. 1) Independent 2) Convention Baptists (a bit liberal) and 3) Fellowship Baptists (short for the Fellowship of Evangelical Baptists)--the largest group. The latter would be where I hang out. Our doctrine would be standard evangelical Baptist--very Bible-oriented, and was compatible with Southern Baptists (until they decided to go a little wacky of late).

Seems that there is something of a parting of the ways between Baptist leaders who are now openly embracing Calvinism (like D.A. Carson) and those younger Baptist leaders who seem to be going in the direction of liberalism. Beth Moore announced last week that she was leaving the SBC and their publishing arm Lifeway Books. She is becoming quite liberal--probably due to the influence of her grown daughter (I forget her name--Melissa?) who thinks the churches should bless marriages between two men or two women! The once-mighty Southern Baptist Convention seems to be fracturing.