Unwalled villages of Ezekiel 38

LisaJoe1986

Well-Known Member
I apologize if someone has already mentioned this. I recently listened to a teaching, but I can't remember the name of the teacher. He mentioned that because Israel has no government right now, it could be the fulfillment of Ezekiel 38:11, " and say, ‘I will go up against the land of unwalled villages. I will fall upon the quiet people who dwell securely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having no bars or gates," I know Bill Salus and many others have felt like Israel would participate in a war that would have them attaining more land and tearing walls down, but this situation of no government is also a probable explanation. Perhaps the "walls" are figurative? An article today on Rature Ready conveyed that Hamas sees Israel as unprotected and vulnerable now because they cannot form a government. Very interesting.
 

Andy C

Well-Known Member
The below is from a paper written by DR Thomas Ice. The whole paper is 88 pages, so below is just an excerpt that discusses the secure dwelling of Israel prior to Gog-magog

LIVING SECURELY
The final construct says, “and they are living securely, all of them.” This phrase is also composed of three Hebrew words and completes this long sentence. The verb jasab is used over a thousand times in the Old Testament and has the general meaning of “sit, remain, or dwell.”4 Therefore, it is translated “living” in many English translations since that is the nuance of what one does when they stay for a period of time on a certain piece of land, as opposed to one who is just visiting.

The next Hebrew word is the noun betah that is translated “securely.” There has been a lot of discussion about just what this word means in this context. The Hebrew lexicons tell us that the general meaning is “security” or “confidence” and is similar to our English word “trust” in range of meaning.5 It is often used in construct form with the verb “to dwell,” as is the case here and occurs 160 times in the Hebrew Bible.6 It is used in Leviticus and Deuteronomy as a promise from the Lord that He will cause the nation to dwell securely in the Land if they obey his law (Lev. 25:18, 19; 26:5; Deut. 12:10). This term is used throughout the historical and prophetic Old Testament books as a comment whether or not Israel is dwelling securely in the land. In fact, this phrase is used in Jeremiah 49:31 in a similar invasion context as we see in Ezekiel 38. It says: “’Arise, go up against a nation which is at ease, which lives securely,’ declares the LORD. ‘It has no gates or bars; they dwell alone.’” This is how it is used in Ezekiel 38:8. “However, quite often this general meaning has a negative ring . . . to indicate a false security.”7 The context supports the false security connotation in this instance, because of the impending invasion. On the other hand, since God miraculously delivers the nation, maybe it is not misplaced after all.

Some have tried to equate the notion of “living securely” with the “living peacefully.” It is said that what is described in this passage is a situation where Israel is at peace with all their neighbors and no one is a treat to them. This is not supported by the word betah or the context. “Nowhere in the entire text does it speak of Israel as living in peace. Rather, Israel is merely living in security, which means ‘confidence,’ regardless of whether it is during a state of war or peace,” notes Arnold Fruchtenbaum. “There is nothing in the various descriptions of Israel given in this passage that is not true of Israel today.”8

The final Hebrew word is translated by the English phrase “all of them.” To whom does this refer? It can only refer to all of those living securely in the land of Israel. All of those who have returned to the mountains of Israel are dwelling in security. Charles Feinberg concludes, “Finally, they were viewed as living securely, all of them, without fear of invasion or deportation.”9 This sets the stage for the comments in the next verse where God again addresses God and his invading force.

https://digitalcommons.liberty.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1000&context=pretrib_arch
 

greg64

Well-Known Member
Strictly speaking, Israel doesn't have walls around it's villages; it has a border wall in the west bank -- two very different things. Of course, that's not really what it's about -- I think it comes down to the Hebrew word rendered betach and what in means in context of Ezekiel 38: https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H983&t=KJV

I'd say by and large Israel dwells securely, but not carefree, so while the current situation appears set up and primed for Ezekiel to take place, I'm not sure it's quite there yet. More and more, I don't think Psalm 83 is an end times prophecy or necessarily even a prophecy at all. But for the sake of argument, let's say Psalm 83 is a prophecy and it's soon to come. Given what we see now, how do we explain the absence of Iran/Persia? With their presence in Syria and everything they're doing through proxies, how would they sit out any war between Israel and the various Palestinian factions? It would seem they'd have to be included and accounted for one way or another.

All we know is things are shaping up like they never have before:
- Russia, Iran and Turkey are all in Syria and working together, even if loosely at times
- Libya and Sudan are increasingly under Russian influence
- Saudi Arabia and the gulf states are performing a 180 degree shift when it comes to Israel and can for the first time be seen as ready to protest as Ezekiel says of Sheba and Dedan.

Just yesterday, Israel's security cabinet decided to keep the status quo in Gaza due to their concern about likely events in the north. You get the feeling something is going to happen soon, and whatever it is will likely be some kind of victory for Israel, even with the political mess going on. I also heard a report that President Trump does not intend to directly confront Iran until at soonest after the American elections. Even with as great as Trump has been with Israel, they're finding out that for some things they're on their own. Right where Ezekiel says they'll be.

So, I'm guessing there will be some kind of quick, fairly decisive conflict that will give Israel some breathing room (who knows -- Isaiah 17 or even Jeremiah 49?) Combine that with America no longer being much of a factor for any number of reasons (not the least of which is the Rapture -- Maranatha!) and it won't take much for Gog to get his thought and meet his destiny.
 

InsuranceGuy

Well-Known Member
Everyone has their opinion, but I believe Putin is the guy who will attack Israel. He's sneaky, powerful and convincing. I would not think he is going to wait until he's so old he no longer garners the respect he feels he deserves. My take is most everyone who is in power today is there for a reason and will be a player in the coming wars before they are too old to do so.
 

aldanielle

Well-Known Member
Strictly speaking, Israel doesn't have walls around it's villages; it has a border wall in the west bank -- two very different things. Of course, that's not really what it's about -- I think it comes down to the Hebrew word rendered betach and what in means in context of Ezekiel 38: https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H983&t=KJV

I'd say by and large Israel dwells securely, but not carefree, so while the current situation appears set up and primed for Ezekiel to take place, I'm not sure it's quite there yet. More and more, I don't think Psalm 83 is an end times prophecy or necessarily even a prophecy at all. But for the sake of argument, let's say Psalm 83 is a prophecy and it's soon to come. Given what we see now, how do we explain the absence of Iran/Persia? With their presence in Syria and everything they're doing through proxies, how would they sit out any war between Israel and the various Palestinian factions? It would seem they'd have to be included and accounted for one way or another.

All we know is things are shaping up like they never have before:
- Russia, Iran and Turkey are all in Syria and working together, even if loosely at times
- Libya and Sudan are increasingly under Russian influence
- Saudi Arabia and the gulf states are performing a 180 degree shift when it comes to Israel and can for the first time be seen as ready to protest as Ezekiel says of Sheba and Dedan.

Just yesterday, Israel's security cabinet decided to keep the status quo in Gaza due to their concern about likely events in the north. You get the feeling something is going to happen soon, and whatever it is will likely be some kind of victory for Israel, even with the political mess going on. I also heard a report that President Trump does not intend to directly confront Iran until at soonest after the American elections. Even with as great as Trump has been with Israel, they're finding out that for some things they're on their own. Right where Ezekiel says they'll be.

So, I'm guessing there will be some kind of quick, fairly decisive conflict that will give Israel some breathing room (who knows -- Isaiah 17 or even Jeremiah 49?) Combine that with America no longer being much of a factor for any number of reasons (not the least of which is the Rapture -- Maranatha!) and it won't take much for Gog to get his thought and meet his destiny.
Great response, Greg! Very informative.
 

Ohioan

Well-Known Member
Not only will walls be built above ground but underneath as well;

https://www.breitbart.com/middle-east/2016/06/16/israel-goes-full-trump-gaza-massive-concrete-wall-ground-across-entire-border/

TEL AVIV – As the debate over Donald Trump’s proposed wall along the U.S.-Mexico border continues to dominate the presidential race, Israel is reportedly planning to move ahead with a massive above and underground concrete barrier along the entire border with the Hamas-controlled Gaza Strip.

The barrier was revealed on Thursday in a story splashed across the cover of Yedioth Aharonot, Israel’s largest daily newspaper. The story was published with the approval of the country’s defense ministry.



Yedioth’s affiliated website, Ynetnews, has the details:




Israel’s defense establishment’s plan to build a concrete wall tens of meters underground as well as above ground along the Gaza Strip border was revealed by Yedioth Ahronoth Thursday morning. …


The wall will stretch along the 60 miles of the southern border around the Gaza Strip, and will in fact be the third defense system of its kind Israel has built along the border.


The first 60-kilometer barrier was constructed in 1994 following the Oslo accords, while the second system was built following the decision to disengage from Gaza in 2005. Neither of the efforts, however, provided comprehensive solutions to the threat of attack tunnels.


The report comes after two Hamas terror tunnels were discovered crossing into Israel in April and May.


As Israel confronts threats along its borders, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has made the construction of new barriers a major national security priority.


In February, Netanyahu announced he is working to surround the entire country with fences and barriers “to defend ourselves against wild beasts” that surround the Jewish state.


“We are preparing a multi-year project to encircle Israel with a security fence, to defend ourselves in the Middle East as it is now, and as it is expected to be,” Netanyahu stated at the time.



“At the end, in the State of Israel, as I see it, there will be a fence that spans it all,” said Netanyahu. “I’ll be told, ‘This is what you want, to protect the villa?’ The answer is yes. Will we surround all of the State of Israel with fences and barriers? The answer is yes. In the area that we live in, we must defend ourselves against the wild beasts.”


He said the plan would take several years to complete and that besides the fence around the country his government will also work to close the breaches in the security barrier that straddles the West Bank.


“This thing costs many billions, and we’re working on a multi-year plan of prioritization so it would be spread out over years in order to gradually build it, and to complete it to defend the State of Israel,” Netanyahu added.


Israel’s barriers are largely aimed at keeping terrorists out, but another major priority has been to stem the flow of illegal African migrants attempting to cross into the Jewish state along the Israel-Egypt border. To that effect, Israel in 2013 completed construction of a border fence along the Israel-Egypt border, and the numbers of illegals crossing the border massively decreased.


Israel began construction of the West Bank security barrier in 2002 at the height of the second Palestinian intifada, or terrorist war of shootings and suicide bombings targeting Israeli civilians. That intifada was launched after PLO leader Yasser Arafat rejected an Israeli offer of a Palestinian state during U.S.-mediated negotiations in the summer of 2000.



Upon the completion of a significant continuous section of the security fence in 2003, Israel already saw a marked decrease in the number of suicide bombers able to penetrate Israeli cities.


About 95% of the barrier consists of a chain-link fence backed up by high-tech surveillance systems and not the concrete barrier routinely shown by the news media. The concrete barriers are usually only located in areas where the wall intersects with Israeli communities and roads, including areas of previous Palestinian shooting attacks.


Trump has numerous times pledged to build a wall along the nearly 2,000-mile U.S.-Mexico border to stem the flow of illegal aliens and criminal drug traffickers.


“I would build a great wall, and nobody builds walls better than me, believe me, and I’ll build them very inexpensively. I will build a great, great wall on our southern border. And I will have Mexico pay for that wall. Mark my words,” Trump declared during his speech announcing his 2016 presidential bid.
 

Stevelw

Well-Known Member
Here’s ideas that are swimming in my head regarding Ezekiel 38:11

"And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates," Eze 38:11

In the days of Joshua, Ezekiel and Nehemiah, walls were necessary for villages, towns and cities to dwell in security. Walls of that day were formidable military obstacles in which whole armies were known to die throwing themselves upon them. Walls were so formidable they could totally and completely thwart an invasion force such as the Great Wall of China had accomplished in its prime. So the idea in ancient times of security without walls was unimaginable, which made this verse through the centuries so unusual to comprehend as possible, not so in our modern day.

So how do cities, towns and villages live in security without walls? It’s been largely believed that peace with ones surrounding neighbors is a must for this to happen. Although it’s a reasonable thought, I do not necessarily agree with this in regards to Ezekiel 38. In the current day of modern militaries and air forces, walls are nothing more than a minor speed bump if that. Although walls are still used to control movement of unarmed or lightly armed people, they are hardly an obstacle for well equipped modern militaries. Although modern Israel does use walls for controlling movement of people, they don’t rely on them for their major security from well equipped militaries. So how does a country live in security with unwalled cities as in Ezekiel 38? By having a modern equipped military strong enough to provide the security in which they desire, thus making walls obsolete. Israel today boast and rest in its security due to its military strength.

So isn’t Israel’s military strength essentially like a wall or gate? Not if the invading army is militarily strong and advanced enough to negate the strength of Israel’s military might to nothing more than a minor nuisance. A modern day example of this would be the steamrolling and defeat of the third largest military in the world by the United States of America when it initially invaded Iraq. This is why I believe Ezekiel 38 is so amazing, God Himself intervenes on Israel’s behalf against a massive modern army that is far greater than Israel’s and sees Israel’s defenses as a mere speed bump. They see Israel as a land and a people that believes it’s dwelling safely because of it’s military might, but in the enemies eyes it’s a land without resistance, unlike the resistance offered by the walls and gates of old to those in ancient times that dwelt within them.

All of this happens so that Israel will see that it is God not their own military might that is their security and rest. So to speak, The Lord is their wall and protection.
 

kathymendel

Well-Known Member
In my mind's eye, I see walled villages pretty much as a thing of the past. Walls do not stop missiles, or airplanes with guns and bombs..........or probably even tanks, for that matter. So, yes, any mention of walls and fortification in this day and age, would probably refer to that country's military might rather than literal walls. And, yes, God is the ultimate military might of Israel, whether they see it or not at this point. One day - and, I hope soon - they will be well aware of that truth.
 
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