daygo
Well-Known Member
True.
Two Witness: Revelation 11 and the Rosh Hashanah New Moon - A parallel?
- Thread starter nevermind
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Hidden
Well-Known Member
The Book of Revelation is highly chronological and I think the Two Witnesses's ministry doesn't start until a little later than the ministry of the 144,000. Their appearance is tied to the trumpets which herald the coming of the Kingdom.
I believe most of Revelation is in chronological order, to include the 21 judgments, but some of the other verses are not. John goes back and fills in some of the details not mentioned earlier. Example below:
We know when the beast rises from the sea, Rev 13, this will be in the middle of the 7 year Tribulation.
The 2 witnesses are not mentioned (Rev 11) until after the 6th trumpet judgement.
We know these 2 will have a ministry of 3.5 years.
We know when the beast rises from the sea, he will kill the 2 witnesses.
In order for the 2 witnesses to preach for 3.5 years, they must start at the beginning of the 7 years as mentioned in an earlier post by TT.
Tall Timbers
Imperfect but forgiven
I agree with this. Watchers' understanding of the way the Tribulation judgements will play out differs widely, and mostly the difference is between those who understand that the 21 judgments are listed chronologically in Revelation as far as when they start, while others who don't see it that way come up with many different scenarios of the judgments.
Although I do agree that it is chronological, the way in which the Bible sometimes shows its chronology is to introduce a concept at its fullness, then backfill. Look at the death of John the Baptist, for instance. In Luke 9:7, it is asked if John the Baptist was raised from the dead, and then goes on to explain that, well, it's because JtB was beheaded. Luke is a highly chronological book, but here, it is technically out of order. In the same way, John is bringing up the Two Witnesses once their ministry is coming to fullness. Potentially. I guess we'll see from the Skybox.
The two witnesses are in the Tribulation period. The church is gone in the rapture before the Tribulation starts.
daygo
Well-Known Member
Well said hidden, pure speculation on my part the two witnesses will be before the middle of the tribulation lasting the 3 and half years after which the 7 bowls judgement will commence remembering they are mentioned after the Trumpets but before the middle of the tribulation so I expect them to be sandwiched between the seventh trumpet and the middle of the tribulation hence the furore whilst they are witnessing.
Rosh occurs over a two day period and therefore could be possible for the rapture to occur during the holiday and still not know the hour or the day. NOT DATE SETTNG OR FRAMING.
Of course anything is possible, but in my opinion the Jewish festivals are not connected to the Rapture. First, the Lord said we would not the hour or the day. If the Rapture we’re connected to a specific festival then we could figure out the day. The Scripture says know one knows the day or hour, but we should know the season. The second reason is what do Jewish festivals have to do with Christians? The Jews were commanded to celebrate these festivals under the old covenant. Christian’s are under the new covenant. I’m lucky if I can even name two or three of the festivals. There is no doubt that the major events in Jesus’ life were meant to coincide with the Jewish festivals because Jesus initially offered salvation to the Jews and these events/festivals were intended to be a sign for the Jews. As we know they should have recognized this, but rejected it. This notion that the Rapture would occur on a Jewish festival to be another sign for the Jews doesn’t make sense. The Church age will end with the rapture, the tribulation {Jacob’s trouble} is when God will turn his attention back to Israel and open the eyes of the Jewish people. This is why I think the Rapture is is a totally random event, but at the end of the day it is just my speculation. We don’t know the hour or day so it could happen tomorrow, next month or on a festival. We don’t know! The Scripture says that Jesus doesn’t know either, just the Father.
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daygo
Well-Known Member
Good one.
O53
New Member
I have only been a Christian for about 4 years. I grew up in a strict religious atmosphere, but opposed God in every aspect of my life for about 25 years. I returned to the Lord without a religious back ground, only to be a Christian. I have studied the Feast and found them to be significant to my Christian faith. Our Lord and savior completed all the 4 first feast (divine appointments) exactly on time so that i may be saved and the church be present. That said, I believe the last 3 will be completed exactly on time. Is the Feast of Trumpets the time of the Rapture? No one knows. But I believe all the feast pertain to me whether I'm Jew or Gentile. I serve a Jewish Messiah and He, His disciples and Apostles all kept the Feast. Unfortunately growing up I only knew Easter and Christmas. I dont follow the traditions of the feast per say, but I make extra time for the Lord during those times in honor of the Lord, by extra prayer time, fasting, ect.
Dan the Elder
Well-Known Member
I have no intention of arguing either view (and I won't). I would just like to add some information that doesn't seem to be considered.
1. The Hebrew word for "Feast" is Mo'ed meaning "appointment" or "appointed time". Jesus fulfilled the spring "feasts" at their "appointed time"!
2. Jesus is Jewish, observed the feasts (fulfilled four) Although He made a New Covenant with the Church, He didn't censor the first covenant with Israel.
3. Rosh Hoshanna is also known as Yom Teruah "The day of Blowing" (blowing of the shofar to remember when God sounded it over Mt. Sinai when He spoke to the people of Israel. (Exodus 19:16-20). They consider it as a "call to repentance". The Jews also believe it is the anniversary of the 6th day of creation -- when man was created. It has also been known by them as "The Day that nobody Knows" -- because it is dependent on the first sighting of the new moon (just a very thin sliver). That is why two witnesses were needed, and why, unlike other feasts, it was assigned two days. (In case the witnesses couldn't agree on seeing it the first night). Through out their history it has also been known for a "Day for a King's Coronation" and a day for wedding's.
4. Rosh Hoshanna is the beginning of the Jewish "Ten Holy Days". It is followed by "Seven Days of Awe" -- followed by Yom Kippur (Feast of Atonement). I don't believe the sequence there is a coincidence.
5. I believe Jesus will fulfill the last three "appointed times" as He did the first four. I also believe the "Seven years of Jacob's Trouble" is God's way of bringing them to repentance and acceptance of their Messiah, And then when He sets up His "Earthly Kingdom" (Millinium) it will fulfill the OT covenant with Israel.
6). I have no word on exactly when these events will happen, but it does seem that "the season" is here. The puzzle is almost complete -- three pieces left and its becoming clear where they go!!
Maranatha, God Bless, Dan
1. The Hebrew word for "Feast" is Mo'ed meaning "appointment" or "appointed time". Jesus fulfilled the spring "feasts" at their "appointed time"!
2. Jesus is Jewish, observed the feasts (fulfilled four) Although He made a New Covenant with the Church, He didn't censor the first covenant with Israel.
3. Rosh Hoshanna is also known as Yom Teruah "The day of Blowing" (blowing of the shofar to remember when God sounded it over Mt. Sinai when He spoke to the people of Israel. (Exodus 19:16-20). They consider it as a "call to repentance". The Jews also believe it is the anniversary of the 6th day of creation -- when man was created. It has also been known by them as "The Day that nobody Knows" -- because it is dependent on the first sighting of the new moon (just a very thin sliver). That is why two witnesses were needed, and why, unlike other feasts, it was assigned two days. (In case the witnesses couldn't agree on seeing it the first night). Through out their history it has also been known for a "Day for a King's Coronation" and a day for wedding's.
4. Rosh Hoshanna is the beginning of the Jewish "Ten Holy Days". It is followed by "Seven Days of Awe" -- followed by Yom Kippur (Feast of Atonement). I don't believe the sequence there is a coincidence.
5. I believe Jesus will fulfill the last three "appointed times" as He did the first four. I also believe the "Seven years of Jacob's Trouble" is God's way of bringing them to repentance and acceptance of their Messiah, And then when He sets up His "Earthly Kingdom" (Millinium) it will fulfill the OT covenant with Israel.
6). I have no word on exactly when these events will happen, but it does seem that "the season" is here. The puzzle is almost complete -- three pieces left and its becoming clear where they go!!
Maranatha, God Bless, Dan
kathymendel
Well-Known Member
Dan, I find your words so informative. I married into a Jewish family over 40 years ago. I was a believer of many years,
but, as is common, had not ever learned anything about Jewish customs and holy holidays in my church-going experiences.
While dating my husband-to-be, my mother and I were invited to passover seder at his parent's house. It was just the five of us -
I guess the other family members did their own somewhere else, or they all celebrated together on another night. However,
what struck my mom and I - completely in the gut, I might add - was the unequivicable truth of Jesus in that passover ritual.
After we married, the Jewish holidays began to make sense and fit into my life in a very meaningful way, too.
The holidays pertain to the Jews............. but, the meaning of them clearly define Jesus, and God's plan of salvation to us, as believers.
Our churches do not teach any of this, and many of them have clearly bought into the "replacement theory", which is totally false.
In your post, I learned things that I had never heard before........ but they do all fit the big picture so clearly! My husband's family are
not Jews dedicated to their religion, they celebrate the holidays to a minimum, but never discuss or go deeper in anything. When I tried to
start up conversations about it, they would clam up or have no opinions. Thankfully, through sharing the Gospel with my husband, and
learning more and more on Rapture Ready over the years, he came to salvation through his savior and messiah, Jesus Christ, shortly after
we were married, and passed on to heaven in 2015.
Your words - your info - has blessed me greatly today, and give me renewed hope in a rapture that is soon coming.
THANK YOU!!!!
but, as is common, had not ever learned anything about Jewish customs and holy holidays in my church-going experiences.
While dating my husband-to-be, my mother and I were invited to passover seder at his parent's house. It was just the five of us -
I guess the other family members did their own somewhere else, or they all celebrated together on another night. However,
what struck my mom and I - completely in the gut, I might add - was the unequivicable truth of Jesus in that passover ritual.
After we married, the Jewish holidays began to make sense and fit into my life in a very meaningful way, too.
The holidays pertain to the Jews............. but, the meaning of them clearly define Jesus, and God's plan of salvation to us, as believers.
Our churches do not teach any of this, and many of them have clearly bought into the "replacement theory", which is totally false.
In your post, I learned things that I had never heard before........ but they do all fit the big picture so clearly! My husband's family are
not Jews dedicated to their religion, they celebrate the holidays to a minimum, but never discuss or go deeper in anything. When I tried to
start up conversations about it, they would clam up or have no opinions. Thankfully, through sharing the Gospel with my husband, and
learning more and more on Rapture Ready over the years, he came to salvation through his savior and messiah, Jesus Christ, shortly after
we were married, and passed on to heaven in 2015.
Your words - your info - has blessed me greatly today, and give me renewed hope in a rapture that is soon coming.
THANK YOU!!!!
ItIsFinished!
Blood bought child of the King of kings.
Could you explain what you mean by Christians Jews are the only completed people in the world?
Galatians 3
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
TimeWarpWife
Well-Known Member
I'm embarrassed to admit this, but last year there were some pastors and teachers I listen to online who weren't "exact date setting," but who believed the real possibility that the Rapture might happen last year around the Jewish Feast holidays. Btw, these are biblically sound people. I, unfortunately, allowed myself to start getting very excited at the thought we might be that close to the Rapture. Well, you can imagine how disappointing and what a big let down it was when it didn't happen. Again this year because of the WEF and the globalists doubling down on making 2030 THE year they take over world control, some of these same pastors and teachers are again getting geared up and saying this fall could be when the Rapture happens. Only this time, I'm not allowing myself to get caught up in it. Will the Rapture happen this fall? Nobody knows, only God knows. It's our job to be ready whenever He tells Jesus to go get His bride. Other than looking up for our Redemption, the other job we have is to share the gospel with unbelievers so they too can get saved and spend eternity in heaven whenever Jesus does come for us.
You hit the nail on the hammer TimeWarpWife.
This is why we don't allow date-setting here at Rapture Forums.
We won't allow our Christian witness to be compromised and/or ruined by people who think they have the mind of God to know when the rapture of other end times events will occur.
The rapture can happen at anytime. It is when the Father decides to send His Son to get His bride. It is not for us to sit around doing all kinds of "biblical calculus" and other "mental gymnastics" at date-setting the end times events.
We have work to do and that is to carry out the Great Commission. Some people are going to find themselves with little in Heaven because instead of carrying out the Great Commission they spent all their time occupied with these things. People are dying all around us without Christ and all some worry about is being the one who figures out the date of the rapture, etc. It's like some board games, if you cover enough dates or spaces, you are bound to get right one of these days.
Let us be about the Father's business and tell others about Jesus!
Matthew6:33
Withstand in the evil day. Eph 6:13
and this is why Satan is so against evangelism. He never knows when that "last gentile" will make the decision for Christ.Let us be about the Father's business and tell others about Jesus!
[Rom 11:25 NKJV] 25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.