Baby Yoda
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"To despair is the position of unbelief.”
This is what my coworker is going through, because she doesn't believe, she is in despair. We both see what's happening to the world, but she doesn't know why.
Trending Towards the Tribulation: 7 Indicators To Watch
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This is what my coworker is going through, because she doesn't believe, she is in despair. We both see what's happening to the world, but she doesn't know why.
When someone makes a statement that isn't supported by scripture, I think it is worthwhile to bring that to light, especially concerning what's coming, given the time we're living in.
Here's my supporting material that indicates the order of things. We do know from the Bible that the Church will not see God's Judgment during Tribulation. Scripture does not indicate that we are spared from everything leading up to the beginning of Tribulation. I, of course, don't know how much the Church will see before we're taken out of here, but given Scripture and how God tends to wait until the last moment... I'd venture a guess that the Church is likely to see most everything leading up to the Rapture.
If I should refrain from pointing out statements made that aren't valid, then I reckon I'll continue to be trouble for some:
It appears that the order of things to come is one world gov't will be officially established, followed by 10 kingdoms or Regions w/ governments. After the OWG is established and the 10 regions identified, another king will rise up (the antichrist) after the 10. This one, the antichrist will subdue 3 of the 10 kings in order to firm up dominion over the entire world.
So:
1st: OWG
2nd: Heads (kings) over 10 regions
3rd: antichrist becomes head of the OWG
4th: war to consolidate power over the 10 regions (3 kings subdued)
Daniel 7:23-27
23 “Thus he said: ‘The fourth beast will be a fourth kingdom on the earth, which will be different from all the other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth and tread it down and crush it. 24 As for the ten horns, out of this kingdom ten kings will arise; and another will arise after them, and he will be different from the previous ones and will subdue three kings. 25 He will speak out against the Most High and wear down the saints of the Highest One, and he will intend to make alterations in times and in law; and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time. 26 But the court will sit for judgment, and his dominion will be taken away, annihilated and destroyed forever. 27 Then the sovereignty, the dominion and the greatness of all the kingdoms under the whole heaven will be given to the people of the saints of the Highest One; His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all the dominions will serve and obey Him.’
Now I'm looking in Footsteps of the Messiah because I want to see what Arnold has to say about these verses.
(v. 23) On page 35 he indicates that the fourth kingdom devours (or rules) over the whole earth, something that no previous kingdom has ever achieved. For those previous 3 kingdoms, much of the earth wasn't even known.
(v. 23-24) On page 125-127 He calls the development of the OWG the 5th birth pang leading up to Tribulation. Right now the world is divided up into the western and eastern powers. Arnold expects the eastern powers to collapse, facilitating the move to the OWG. The exact form of government or how it is achieved, isn't known, but it is for sure that it will come to pass. He says the 6th birth pang is the division of the OWG into 10 kingdoms with a ruler for each one. Beginning before Tribulation, the 10 kingdom stage will continue into the middle of Tribulation. Following the division of the world into 10 kingdoms, the antichrist will begin his rise to power. 2 Thes 2:1-3 indicates the antichrist will be revealed at some point after the 10 kingdoms are established. Arnold calls this the 7th birth pang before Tribulation. Because Tribulation begins with the signing of the seven-year covenant between Israel and the antichrist, it is necessary for the antichrist to have sufficient political power to sign such a covenant.
(v. 24) On page 244-245 Arnold seems to indicate that the antichrist's gaining political control over the world could take some time. Rev 17:12-13 is useful to estimate the chronology of when the 3 kings will be put down, and it doesn't appear to be towards the beginning of Tribulation or before Tribulation begins. Arnold says that the antichrist eventually subdues the entire world politically with the exception of Jordan.
It is possible then that the Bride of Christ could see the formation of the OWG in whatever form it ultimately takes, and the division of the world into 10 kingdoms before we are raptured, but the rapture is imminent and can happen anytime between now and prior to the official beginning of Tribulation.
Was thinking about this, if people will be buying and selling as in normal life, with the way the economy and food supply are being destroyed, wouldn't we have to go before there is nothing left to buy or sell?
We can't be sure of what folks will face between now and the beginning of Tribulation, though given the way of birth pangs, things will likely continue to become evermore difficult.
Baby Yoda
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SarahRose
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Same!Thanks, you make sense. I just think of these things in the middle of the night.
You always present a good case in support of your view, but as you know, we disagree on what will happen while the church is still here. Out of almost ten years of exchanging posts with you, its rare we disagree, but common we both admit we could be wrong when scripture is not crystal clear. Time will tell.
I don't know that we disagree as the only difference is I keep open the possibilities. To say the Church won't be here to see the OWG and/or the 10 kings is a Biblically unsupported statement. To say the Church may be gone before the OWG/10 kings is possible. It is also possible that the Church will be here to see those things.
I have always stated my views could be wrong, its just the biblical evidence seems to lean towards (not definite) the church being gone, time will tell.
I guess I do disagree with that. I don't believe what Scripture tells us leans towards the Church being gone before those things come.
If your right, and Im wrong, you better keep a room empty for me in your new house because where you are moving too, nobody would attack there.
If your right, and Im wrong, you better keep a room empty for me in your new house because where you are moving too, nobody would attack there.
We'll have lots of space for guests.
Amethyst
Angie ... †
So you dont think the rapture could happen today, since the 10 kingdoms arent here?
DWB
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The globalists are going ahead with their plans regardless of the rapture. They don't believe anyway.
Nothing need happen before the Rapture occurs, however, based upon the timeline presented in Daniel, the OWG and the 10 kingdoms could be here before the Rapture. They are not, however, a prerequisite for the Rapture to occur.
I should also add that I do believe the OWG will be fully formed before the tribulation begins. This brings up another age old topic on this forum, but I do believe there will be a gap of an unknown length between the rapture and the start of the tribulation.
I believe the ten kings will already be there before the rapture..my reasoning is that 7 of them willingly hand over their sovereignty to The AC..while three of the kings are forced to..why do the seven practically beg The AC to take their power..could it be the rapture that causes it?... Only time will tell..and I don't think The Church will be here for the handing over of said power..
This may be a horrendous birth pain..or maybe a series of Braxton Hicks contractions...but this is affecting the whole world..so..I doubt it..if these birth pains are the real thing..and we will be buying and selling as usual..they have to subside.. because if the rapture were to happen before you finish reading this..there are at the very least 7 years to go before the baby is born..Was thinking about this, if people will be buying and selling as in normal life, with the way the economy and food supply are being destroyed, wouldn't we have to go before there is nothing left to buy or sell?
daygo
Well-Known Member
Agree t.t we can only speculate and have our opinions imo we could see the beginning of the 10 kings of the owg and we may even see the fight of one taking over 3 of them but that's all I see at the moment.
JoyJoyJoy
I Shall Not Be Moved
I dont have much of an opinion of whether we will see the OWG form. My only thought is that the longer we are here, the more opportunity for folks to come to Christ.
I reckon the Restrainer will keep on restraining til that last soul is saved.
Isn't it awesome to know that we, as the Bride, also help restraining evil??
I reckon the Restrainer will keep on restraining til that last soul is saved.
Isn't it awesome to know that we, as the Bride, also help restraining evil??
I always believed that the Rapture would be the event to trigger the formation of the OWG. We definitely see the "outline" of a OWG forming, but the problem countries in the way of this OWG are Russia and China. Russia will not play along with the globalists at the present time. However, after the Ezekiel war when they are weakened then they would be in a position to be more easily controlled. I don't think countries are willing to give up their nationalism right now, but if some huge event occurred like the Rapture that caused economic and societal chaos then it would be easier for the masses to accept a OWG to save the world. The Scripture does say that it will be like the time of Noah where people will be buying, selling, planting, etc.. This sounds to me like life will be fairly normal and not in total chaos. However, this is just an opinion. We will see what happens as time progresses and the pieces of prophecy fall into place, but it is fun to conjecture on how we think the events will unfold.
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