Tragedy Compounded

vbf

Well-Known Member
My respect for all of you has increased; I admire you all very much. Jesus told us in no uncertain terms that we would experience hardship in this world and encouraged us by saying, also in no uncertain terms, that He has overcome the world. From reading through this thread, it's clear that many of us have suffered and can attest to His sustaining grace, love, and strength. When Jesus sent the disciples across the sea in a boat He knew they would experience hardship. They saw Him walking on the very thing threatening their lives. We read later on that they reached the other side......they made it.... they made it with His help. I have taken great encouragement from that. If He helped them, He will, and has, helped me reach the other side. Then looking back, I can now see that Romans 8:28 was in full effect.

Praise God!!!
 

Jan51

Well-Known Member
It seems to me that the Bible does contain everything we need for life.. it claims to. DID men come up with better answers that are missing from the Bible? Aren’t we all to bear one another’s burdens, to love and pray for each other, to counsel one another from God’s Word, which means we are each to know it well and be using it well and to be growing so that we CAN do this? Are only pastors to counsel those who are struggling? And if we are doing this for each other, acting as mature godly believers, should we be charging each other money to do this? What do these professional counselors do that is not already in the Bible and is better than God’s psychology, which He has provided aplenty?
 

ItIsFinished!

Well-Known Member
I encouraged Chris to post the article, therefore it is I who am guilty, not he. I am responsible for causing some of you to experience pain over this. And I am so sorry. I see that many took the article as some sort of unloving, unconcerned attack on those who suffer from depression, anxiety, and other related conditions. It was not my intention.

I have sat with a loaded gun to my head and my finger on the trigger. I understand the pain of mental pressures so great that they break you. I once sat in emotional darkness for years. But --perhaps because I have been blessed by God lifting me completely out of that pit-- I was able to see the article for what I believe Tom intended it to be: not an attack on Christian counseling, but a warning against secular counseling in general and against secular counseling theories and techniques being brought into Christian counseling.

Yes, a counselor must understand how the mind works, but he or she must base ALL their healing techniques on the Word of God properly divided. I know far too many people who have struggled with extremely painful and emotionally crippling thoughts for years and years without ever really being helped. Not because they do not want help; not because there is something "wrong" with them; but because the counselor attempted to fix them using secular techniques disguised as "Christian" counseling. The Bible contains the cure, but it takes a perceptive person, with the ability to empathize with the victim and display endless patience and godly love. If, rather than viewing the person they are about to counsel as "the next patient", they would instead view them as God's precious child; know in their heart that, while God has equipped them to help, only God can heal; ask God for His wisdom; and ask God to let them see the person through His eyes and give them HIS love for the person; then they would see a lot more patients being truly healed. Not because of the skill of the counselor, not because of some quality on the part of the patient, but solely because of --and to the glory of-- God.

I think that is what Tom was getting at.
I believe you are correct and that is what I got out of it as well.
Brother we all know your intentions are always to lift up Christ and encourage others.
That is one of many reasons you are a great pastor.
You are well respected and have a precious testimony.
Your humility and love of Christ makes you a vessel that God chooses to use.
 

cheeky200386

Well-Known Member
I'm a licensed Mental health counselor and I completely agree with the original post. If it's not from the Bible, it is filled with lies that are subtle and convincing. The entire focus on self is use in Psychology, finding the answers within you, not judging your thoughts or yourself, building your self esteem. Yet we are to humble ourselves and put all our hope and trust in Jesus Christ who makes us new. Yes there are behavioral changes we can make but it always has to have God jn the center focus for it to last and work. Too often I see clients that struggle with overeating, for example, and exercising and healthy eating doesn't last because they are trying to fill the emptyness in life with food/pleasure. Many of my clients are seeking peace, joy, purpose, or pleasure in the wrong things. The focus is on this short life when they don't realize this is temporary and preparing us for what comes next. My focus is on sharing the Gospel. I've asked God to use me this way because only he can protect me from complaints for sharing the Gospel for as long as possible. Everything else is a waste of time and only gives a false hope and temporary reprieve while they're still on their way to hell. That's what's missing in secular counseling, they don't understand the spiritual war we're in nor point people to Jesus Christ which is all that matters.
 

Mary Cole

Well-Known Member
I'm a licensed Mental health counselor and I completely agree with the original post. If it's not from the Bible, it is filled with lies that are subtle and convincing. The entire focus on self is use in Psychology, finding the answers within you, not judging your thoughts or yourself, building your self esteem. Yet we are to humble ourselves and put all our hope and trust in Jesus Christ who makes us new. Yes there are behavioral changes we can make but it always has to have God jn the center focus for it to last and work. Too often I see clients that struggle with overeating, for example, and exercising and healthy eating doesn't last because they are trying to fill the emptyness in life with food/pleasure. Many of my clients are seeking peace, joy, purpose, or pleasure in the wrong things. The focus is on this short life when they don't realize this is temporary and preparing us for what comes next. My focus is on sharing the Gospel. I've asked God to use me this way because only he can protect me from complaints for sharing the Gospel for as long as possible. Everything else is a waste of time and only gives a false hope and temporary reprieve while they're still on their way to hell. That's what's missing in secular counseling, they don't understand the spiritual war we're in nor point people to Jesus Christ which is all that matters.
Every counselor I've had knew from the beginning that I'm a believer. No one tried to insinuate that I was asking for self-esteem. They each knew that I needed healing for grief from my son being taken away at a young age, and never getting him back. They knew that to me, it felt like a death. They also knew that I suffered severe flashbacks from PTSD, had been hospitalized for depression that not even 6 ECTs (shock treatments) could improve. Yes, I've grown a lot stronger in my steadfast belief in the Lord. But still, my son was not around for me to raise, and the nightmares and flashbacks continue. I'm not trying to fill the emptiness with food or pleasure, as you suggest. My emptiness comes in the shape of a little boy who used to fill my arms as I carried him. Neither am I on my way to hell.
 

Everlasting Life

Through Faith in Jesus
Yes there are behavioral changes we can make but it always has to have God jn the center focus for it to last and work.
I think this is really the heart of the matter, God in the center and focus....of anyone seeking counsel. :nod


Brother we all know your intentions are always to lift up Christ and encourage others.
Yes, absolutely Mattfivefour. Please know my posts were not meant to come across critical or that I was feeling hurt. You and Chris do such a great job with R.F.!!
 

ByGod'sGrace

Well-Known Member
…..You and Chris do such a great job with R.F.!!
Yes, absolutely second this. Thank you Adrian and Chris for all that you do. I know we all have our heartaches and sorrows we battle in this life. This life is fleeting, and as family, we also can hold eachother up in love and prayer. Praise God for that, and that He made us all different and unique to fulfill a special purpose that He created for each of us.
 

cheeky200386

Well-Known Member
Every counselor I've had knew from the beginning that I'm a believer. No one tried to insinuate that I was asking for self-esteem. They each knew that I needed healing for grief from my son being taken away at a young age, and never getting him back. They knew that to me, it felt like a death. They also knew that I suffered severe flashbacks from PTSD, had been hospitalized for depression that not even 6 ECTs (shock treatments) could improve. Yes, I've grown a lot stronger in my steadfast belief in the Lord. But still, my son was not around for me to raise, and the nightmares and flashbacks continue. I'm not trying to fill the emptiness with food or pleasure, as you suggest. My emptiness comes in the shape of a little boy who used to fill my arms as I carried him. Neither am I on my way to hell.
I'm not talking about believers seeking counseling. I'm talking about the lost who are on their way to hell. When they see secular counselors they don't get the help they really need which is Jesus Christ. You said so yourself, you were already a believer when you saw your counselor. I'm happy you already knew the Lord. I fear for those that don't. I've also heard horror stories of believers who get awful advice from secular counselors too. Better to seek Godly counsel.
 

GotGrace

Well-Known Member
What about instances of sexual molestation by an older sibling, and you are the one blamed and punished for it? What about victims of rape and then having the child conceived from it taken away? What about when others say just get over it? What if you never got your child back? What if you wind up with multiple physical ailments that become permanent, because of these traumas?

:frown2 I know there are many who suffer from depression etc. and my heart simply goes out to you and all those suffering. Your post makes me want to cry Mary.

Mental health is such a complex subject that it is too big of a subject for my small brain to comment on.

I pray that Jesus walks so close to you and the others that are suffering that you can’t tell where he ends and you begin. Oh Lord let peace rule in the hearts and minds of these until you rapture us away to your great kingdom.

Amen!
 

daygo

Well-Known Member
:frown2 I know there are many who suffer from depression etc. and my heart simply goes out to you and all those suffering. Your post makes me want to cry Mary.

Mental health is such a complex subject that it is too big of a subject for my small brain to comment on.

I pray that Jesus walks so close to you and the others that are suffering that you can’t tell where he ends and you begin. Oh Lord let peace rule in the hearts and minds of these until you rapture us away to your great kingdom.

Amen!
Amen.
 

Chris

Administrator
Staff member
This is the first thing that I think of when thinking about this article is the way Freud applied dealing with mental problems:

Id, ego and super-ego
Description
The id, ego, and super-ego are the three distinct, interacting agents in the psychic apparatus defined in Sigmund Freud's structural model of the psyche. The three agents are theoretical constructs that describe the activities and interactions of the mental life of a person.


Isn't it a little beyond coincidence that Freud came up with his "trinity" of mental activity when we know that the REAL Trinity is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Rather dealing with sin nature (by being born again) and the only cure for it, they sometimes try to make SELF (natural man) feel better by not dealing with the sin problem. satan works in subtle ways sometimes. At least it is an interesting angle to see this at.

I think "Christian" counseling would be fine, but now that I am born again I can see how traditional models of counseling can be bad. JMHO.
 

daygo

Well-Known Member
This is the first thing that I think of when thinking about this article is the way Freud applied dealing with mental problems:

Id, ego and super-ego
Description
The id, ego, and super-ego are the three distinct, interacting agents in the psychic apparatus defined in Sigmund Freud's structural model of the psyche. The three agents are theoretical constructs that describe the activities and interactions of the mental life of a person.


Isn't it a little beyond coincidence that Freud came up with his "trinity" of mental activity when we know that the REAL Trinity is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Rather dealing with sin nature (by being born again) and the only cure for it, they sometimes try to make SELF (natural man) feel better by not dealing with the sin problem. satan works in subtle ways sometimes. At least it is an interesting angle to see this at.

I think "Christian" counseling would be fine, but now that I am born again I can see how traditional models of counseling can be bad. JMHO.
They most certainly can Chris, but as Christians we can show a better way can we not.
 

RestInHim

Well-Known Member
I can add to this and relate to it from an early childhood and indeed even to mid teens ...... and it perhaps(unknown) was instrumental in me being a perpetrator of all sorts of grievous evil toward myself and many many others for a number of years ....... I sought help in those "proffessional" people and places for "mental health" I got medications and counseling ..... and though for a period of time it seemed to work it did not last.

I eventually learnt through experience that psychology and God only "appear" to travel the same road and that for a very short distance only and then they go their own distinct ways, one way offers self delusion to fix things and the other leads to life and forgiveness if we choose
1 Thessalonians 5:16-18, that is "my" experience and so I agree with everything that T. A. McMahon says as perhaps that is their experience so sometimes love and truth compel us to speak which to some people seems to be unwisely...... I know I am guilty of telling family memebers what I think of psychologists my son in law works as one and he is/was a wonderful christian but after a number of years in the field his "thinking" has changed, but in man's direction not God's .......... and once again I see what believing in mans way of doing things to help can lead to .......
Because of "my" own experience also, I agree with everything that T.A. McMahon says.

I lean fully on God's word, "always and only" and "especially" in times of great suffering which I've been living with for 19 years, with severe/chronic debilitating physical pain as well as mental, emotional and psychological due to prescribed medication. Our minds are a battle field open to all kinds of deception and as I read through God's word I believe we are to be very cautious in regards to any counselling outside of His word and outside of the Body of Christ! Sadly, many many Churches/Christians I believe "are" trusting in counselling/psychology that falls outside of God's Word. Many are being deceived by man's ways and many "will want to have their ears tickled" and I believe this is a part of the last days apostasy/falling away. (2 Tim. 4: 3-4) (1 Tim. 4: 1)

The warning in 2 Tim. say that "they" will not endure sound doctrine. The "they" here speaks of the Church, us, God's people. This "sound" doctrine is "truth". Also, the Church will go looking for it... I believe that man's "psychology" has already infiltrated the Church in many ways, it's teaching, so called Christian books as well as counseling.

As you have shared here with us.... your experience, we are all as Christians living in this world that is full of sin, our own and the sin of others, we will all face trials and testings and some of them will sadly be horrible and heartbreaking, but, God not only knows of them, He has allowed/permitted them for our good and His glory. And, perhaps to some people this may sound unloving and uncaring and without compassion, but, I do not say that without knowing God's character and His love and His will for me and for all who come to Him in faith. He is sovereign over all. He doesn't like our sin, He hates sin, He hates the sin in all of us and what happens to all of us because of sin.

And, yes of course we are to show love and compassion towards each other and towards the world, but, sadly I also ask myself why we see so many within the Church who are "not" walking with the Lord? Much of the Church looks like the world. Our faith must be rooted and grounded in His Word, His truth. Jesus is truth, He is the rock on which we must stand. (Jn. 8: 32) We are to seek truth in God's word, speak truth, pursue righteousness and love. Many many things we see happening in the world and to people are wrong and evil and we are to speak truth into these situations, but we are not to think that we are responsible for them or responsible to change them by not trusting in God's plan and will for our lives. What many of us and many Christians have and are going through are part of God's will.

One last thing I'd like to share. I believe that we all say and do things that hurt others, not intentionally at times either, some people who are loving and want to walk in God's ways want to live rightly, but, because we live in a world of sin and we don't always have the "right" answers we can give counsel that is not necessarily wise. I know for me I was told that it was good and safe to take these drugs that I took, but, sadly it has not been so, I have been suffering horribly as I've said now for 19 years and I know of so many other's who are also. That being said, we can make choices for ourselves, for our children, for our spouses even after praying and asking God for wisdom and we can still fall short! We just live in a world of sin and this is what it will be until the Lord takes us home and we can trust Him in that what we are going through He loves us and is with us.

2 Timothy 3:10-17 King James Version (KJV)
" But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, long suffering, charity, patience,

Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.

Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;

And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works."





(1 Pet. 1: 3-9)
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance, incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls."


(Psalm 19: 7-4)

The law of the Lord is perfect,
reviving the soul;
the testimony of the Lord is sure,
making wise the simple;
the precepts of the Lord are right,
rejoicing the heart;
the commandment of the Lord is pure,
enlightening the eyes;
the fear of the Lord is clean,
enduring forever;
the rules of the Lord are true,
and righteous altogether.
More to be desired are they than gold,
even much fine gold;
sweeter also than honey
and drippings of the honeycomb.
Moreover, by them is your servant warned;
in keeping them there is great reward.
Who can discern his errors?
Declare me innocent from hidden faults.
Keep back your servant also from presumptuous sins;
let them not have dominion over me!
Then I shall be blameless,
and innocent of great transgression.
Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart
be acceptable in your sight,
O Lord, my rock and my redeemer."
 
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RestInHim

Well-Known Member
Every counselor I've had knew from the beginning that I'm a believer. No one tried to insinuate that I was asking for self-esteem. They each knew that I needed healing for grief from my son being taken away at a young age, and never getting him back. They knew that to me, it felt like a death. They also knew that I suffered severe flashbacks from PTSD, had been hospitalized for depression that not even 6 ECTs (shock treatments) could improve. Yes, I've grown a lot stronger in my steadfast belief in the Lord. But still, my son was not around for me to raise, and the nightmares and flashbacks continue. I'm not trying to fill the emptiness with food or pleasure, as you suggest. My emptiness comes in the shape of a little boy who used to fill my arms as I carried him. Neither am I on my way to hell.
Mary, I'm so sorry for all that you've gone through and I'm so glad to know that you are hear with all of us to love you, encourage you and wrap our arms around you. :bighug:hug God knows what you've gone through and what you are going through and He promises to be with you through it all.

(Is. 43: 1-3)
"But now, thus says the Lord, who created you, O Jacob,
And He who formed you, O Israel:
“Fear not, for I have redeemed you;
I have called you by your name;
You are Mine.
When you pass through the waters, I will be with you;
And through the rivers, they shall not overflow you.
When you walk through the fire, you shall not be burned,
Nor shall the flame scorch you.
For I am the Lord your God,
The Holy One of Israel, your Savior; "

You are not alone in your suffering and God promises that as you continue to trust in Him, He will strengthen you and give you peace and hope and joy. I know how difficult it is, I am in severe chronic physical pain as well as many other health issues and DH and I don't have any relationship with our 2 adult sons and grandchildren and family. It is an everyday, sometimes hourly and minute by minute constant relying on Him to bring me through.
God knows that what we go through causes us as humans to suffer in these ways, He doesn't expect us to just get up and be "healed", He knows we are not able to fix our problems and make everything right. He only wants us to go to Him and to simply trust Him, it doesn't mean it will all go away or that our faith is not strong enough, I too have had that and other things said to me and sadly many who do profess to be Christians don't often times show empathy and extend love in the right ways. Some I do believe have good intentions, but, I also believe that many are not walking in the truth and many may not also be true follower of Jesus.
Keep going to Him and trust Him, He knows and He will honor your faith and bless you.

(1 Thess. 5: 18)
"in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you "

Love in Christ Jesus
:pray
 

LisaJoe1986

Well-Known Member
I wonder if all the many problems with the article posted could potentially indicate the reality of what this author was trying to say. Perhaps we are all victims of wrong thinking perpetrated by psychology? I am not a biblical expert at all, but I do not see Jesus or anyone ever tell us to psychoanalyze our past. We are told that we become new, and when we focus on the beautiful, amazing, most-holy person who made us new and what He promises, He changes us. We recognize His perfect plan and how we and others have so horribly screwed all that up. It makes us long for His coming and reconciling all back to perfection.

I went through an incredibly painful 7 month period after I got saved when I know God was delivering me from my baggage from my past. I cried very frequently and horrible memories, some very random, came into my mind. I had a lot of sorting to do, but I focused on Him and the new life He promised that I had just received. Unfortunately, behaving as that new person was not instantaneous. I had work to do to claim it and fight for it. I had put band aids on my wounds for a long time, but the master surgeon wanted to cut deep and get the infection out. The word was His tool. As I learned how wonderful and perfect He is and how He never willed for me to be hurt like I was, I began to have compassion and forgiveness for those I knew who had hurt me. I began to see my perpetrators as people who I needed to forgive and who needed Christ. That changed me. I had ventured back to my past and focused on it long enough. God said I was new and I needed to believe. One day, as I was driving with my kids in my van, the Holy Spirit spoke in my mind and said, " It's time to burn the bridge." I knew I would not be able to revisit those painful memories unless they were to be used as a tool to understand something or minister to others.

I want to share a very significant thing that happened to me during this time. It was a moment when I had a dream with my eyes open. I guess it was what one would call a vision. In my vision, I was crawling around on the floor frantically trying to gather pieces of a piece of pottery I had broken. It was a very plain, terra-cotta looking pot. While I was doing this, I felt a tap on my shoulder and I turned around to see the Lord holding an amazingly beautiful blue vase. He said, "While you are frantically trying to put the pieces of your life back together, I am here offering you this beautiful, new life." He wanted me to have that, and He paid a very big price for me to have it. God loves broken things and uses brokenness to bring us to Him, but He wants us to be whole. His word is powerful, and when we apply it to our life, it is better than anything any psychologist could ever do!

Here is a really cool thought. When Christians talk about how people in the world have been brain-washed, we need to completely disagree. We are born sinners and have the propensity to do terrible, horrific things and believe awful lies about ourselves, others, and the world around us. WE are the ones who are brain-washed. We have washed our minds with the water of the word. (Eph 5:26). We have not been conformed but we have been transformed by the renewing of our minds. (Rom 12:2) Those who are not born again have filthy, dirty brains and they need to be cleansed by God's holy word which is powerful enough to separate bone from marrow and judge the intentions of our hearts. (Heb 4:12)

If you struggle with a horrible past, use the word of God as a salve and let God do a mighty work in you! Finds scripture that speaks to your situation and print it and plaster it all over your home. Every time you begin to wander down the road of bad thinking walk to the nearest scripture and read it out loud and beg God to change your thinking and renew your mind. Be desperate to have deliverance and be willing to walk out of that way of living that you are so familiar with. Remember that the Israelites longed to go back to the familiarity of slavery in Egypt because it was what they knew and it was comfortable for them. Walking out deliverance can be a painful process, but we must fight for it because it is what God wants for us.

I am sorry if all this sounds simplistic to you. My past was not a cake-walk and I had some pretty awful stuff I needed to be free from. Jesus is faithful. His word is true. As a Christian, we need to not just believe "in" Jesus" but we need to BELIEVE Jesus. He said He would give us new life not fix the old one. Leave the past behind you! It is NOT who you are in Christ.
 

RestInHim

Well-Known Member
If you struggle with a horrible past, use the word of God as a salve and let God do a mighty work in you! Finds scripture that speaks to your situation and print it and plaster it all over your home. Every time you begin to wander down the road of bad thinking walk to the nearest scripture and read it out loud and beg God to change your thinking and renew your mind. Be desperate to have deliverance and be willing to walk out of that way of living that you are so familiar with. Remember that the Israelites longed to go back to the familiarity of slavery in Egypt because it was what they knew and it was comfortable for them. Walking out deliverance can be a painful process, but we must fight for it because it is what God wants for us.

I am sorry if all this sounds simplistic to you. My past was not a cake-walk and I had some pretty awful stuff I needed to be free from. Jesus is faithful. His word is true. As a Christian, we need to not just believe "in" Jesus" but we need to BELIEVE Jesus. He said He would give us new life not fix the old one. Leave the past behind you! It is NOT who you are in Christ.
We have been created to be in a relationship with our heavenly Father and for Him to bring healing to our lives, healing from sin and to give us a life of purpose and hope. We will all go through trials and sometimes these trials are not only in our past, but sometimes they can continue to affect our life on an ongoing basis and perhaps for the rest of our lives. Also, we will continue to go through other's as well and for some of us some of our past stays with us, ongoing illness and other trials which get added on.

We need to be very careful in assuming that if a person is suffering ongoing issues from past traumas or injuries that they are "not" exercising enough faith, or, that they are not trusting God enough, or not in His word enough, or not praying enough. We are not promised a life free from suffering and that includes any suffering. What I believe we need to look at is if that a person who is dealing with whatever has happened or is happening if they are in a relationship and trusting Him, in His word, which does not mean that they will not longer have symptoms. Sometimes I believe that we can rush in and judge someone else's walk with the Lord by assuming that they should be past such and such and dealing better with they suffering, whatever it may be.



For example, brain damage/dysfunction can happen in different ways, are we to believe that a person who has suffered brain damage/dysfunction just go in and fix the problem, or that pills will fix the problem or that even God's word will fix it completely? We cannot just assume that symptoms such as OCD, mental anxiety, depression, mood swings/anger, PTS, even psychosis can be fixed because we live in a world that is broken because of sin, because of our sin and the sin of others. Our bodies fall apart, they get sick, sick from all kinds of things, sick from the poison we are eating and even from drugs.

People are suffering and I've seen too often how those who are suffering are being judged and criticized for not pulling up their boot straps and getting into a more happy/joyful/positive mood. Well, sometimes when people suffer, their brains have been affected! The brain is not immune to sickness and suffering and this often times does mean that symptoms can seem like they are not trying to get better or that most importantly not trusting God. Is it possible that those who are suffering or who have suffered the most are the one's who have a greater trust in Him because they are not leaning on their own understanding, because they are not trying to live in their own strength but in His. I know that this is what it is like for me... I cannot change or stop what has and is continuing to happen in my life, my health, as I have severe neurological damage and suffering with all kinds of emotional, mental and physical health problems. I live everyday with a brain that does not function like a normal healthy person and even a normal healthy person has to deal with renewing their mind, but, one can only imagine what it's like with severe neurological damage. Often times society doesn't want to deal with people who have suffered in horrible ways and who's lives have been affected to the point where there health, mentally and emotionally is affected.

Much like someone who gets diabetes, it can stay with someone for the rest of their lives. We do have to acknowledge that illness/tragedy whatever it may be can manifest itself emotionally, mentally and psychologically and also affect someone physically. Our bodies are not immune to break downs, post traumatic stress, anxiety, depression and so on.

I still agree that we as Christians need to stay clear of any of man's psychology because it does not deal with our sin, our whole being which is in Christ Jesus. That being said, I also believe that many who are Christians and who have or are suffering horribly, who seek God through His Word, who are in a relationship with Him and who have reached out to the Body of Christ have not always found the love and support that is needed.

I have known many who have gone to God's Word, but, also needed other Christians to help them bear their burdens but we're rejected, judged and criticized. So, we need to ask ourselves that if this is happening what needs to change? I believe we need to be the one's to love those who are wanting to grow right where they are, in their hurts, their sufferings. We need to be careful that we are not acting in pride by thinking/assuming we know what someone else is going through and that for some it might be a daily struggle and I will say it again, it does not mean they are not trusting in God, it does not mean they are not growing in their faith just because they are still suffering PTS or anxiety/panic attacks or mood swings or whatever. I have had things said to me in my suffering by other Christians that was just not right, I was told that I didn't have enough faith, I was told that I just need to laugh more and so on. I'd really like to see someone else who is experiencing the symptoms of severe chronic pain and not able to take anything for it for almost 20 years and daily seizures and mental/emotional symptoms added in walk around with a constant smile and not be affected! While someone who says these things can have a health issue hit them and run to the e.r. to be given a narcotic because they can't handle the pain? I have seen the most beautiful Christians suffer horribly and still trust in Jesus through it all and I have known some who have also taken their life.

I agree that God wants to do a work in us, to change us to become more like Him and that will happen through the washing of His word, through our trusting in Him, but, even in our broken bodies and minds, some of us will suffer sins of anxiety, depression, PTS, anger, psychosis, whatever, and these are a part of our sin sick world. How is a person going to "feel" if these symptoms are a part of their life, all their lives? And, how are they going to feel when others don't understand because they've never walked in this type of suffering? When they think it has more to do with not enough faith or that their negative and then they are judged and shunned? If God has allowed/permitted certain kinds of sufferings in peoples lives their is I believe a purpose and even when that person will struggle a long time with it or for the rest of their lives, it is I believe God's purpose to conform them to His image in a relationship with them and their faith growing but it does not mean they will be instantaneously healed.
In my personal life, I am growing and trusting God to do His work in me, it has been and continues to be a daily struggle as I continue to struggle with ill health/pain, does it look perfect? No, I guess I could say it is far from perfect or even good! Sin affects every part of our lives and not only has this affected my marriage, but, my DH is not a Christians so in addition to ill health, it is a daily struggle also to walk out my daily life with God. I have some good days and some days are not so good and some really bad days. I fail miserably, I don't know if my marriage will survive and many days I want to give up, not because I don't trust Him, but, because of the ill health, the marriage and just too much.

But, in His grace, He continues to sustain me. He has carried me through all of it this far and I know that He will continue to do so, but, if I think that I can do it in my own strength I am not trusting Him. Therefore let us all be careful not to pass judgment because some are struggling more than others and we think they should be past it or that they should be doing better.

May we all be given a heart like Jesus to remember that we are first to love and to remember that it is only in and through Him that we can show that love and that in our own strength we will fail.
 

Mary Cole

Well-Known Member
We have been created to be in a relationship with our heavenly Father and for Him to bring healing to our lives, healing from sin and to give us a life of purpose and hope. We will all go through trials and sometimes these trials are not only in our past, but sometimes they can continue to affect our life on an ongoing basis and perhaps for the rest of our lives. Also, we will continue to go through other's as well and for some of us some of our past stays with us, ongoing illness and other trials which get added on.

We need to be very careful in assuming that if a person is suffering ongoing issues from past traumas or injuries that they are "not" exercising enough faith, or, that they are not trusting God enough, or not in His word enough, or not praying enough. We are not promised a life free from suffering and that includes any suffering. What I believe we need to look at is if that a person who is dealing with whatever has happened or is happening if they are in a relationship and trusting Him, in His word, which does not mean that they will not longer have symptoms. Sometimes I believe that we can rush in and judge someone else's walk with the Lord by assuming that they should be past such and such and dealing better with they suffering, whatever it may be.



For example, brain damage/dysfunction can happen in different ways, are we to believe that a person who has suffered brain damage/dysfunction just go in and fix the problem, or that pills will fix the problem or that even God's word will fix it completely? We cannot just assume that symptoms such as OCD, mental anxiety, depression, mood swings/anger, PTS, even psychosis can be fixed because we live in a world that is broken because of sin, because of our sin and the sin of others. Our bodies fall apart, they get sick, sick from all kinds of things, sick from the poison we are eating and even from drugs.

People are suffering and I've seen too often how those who are suffering are being judged and criticized for not pulling up their boot straps and getting into a more happy/joyful/positive mood. Well, sometimes when people suffer, their brains have been affected! The brain is not immune to sickness and suffering and this often times does mean that symptoms can seem like they are not trying to get better or that most importantly not trusting God. Is it possible that those who are suffering or who have suffered the most are the one's who have a greater trust in Him because they are not leaning on their own understanding, because they are not trying to live in their own strength but in His. I know that this is what it is like for me... I cannot change or stop what has and is continuing to happen in my life, my health, as I have severe neurological damage and suffering with all kinds of emotional, mental and physical health problems. I live everyday with a brain that does not function like a normal healthy person and even a normal healthy person has to deal with renewing their mind, but, one can only imagine what it's like with severe neurological damage. Often times society doesn't want to deal with people who have suffered in horrible ways and who's lives have been affected to the point where there health, mentally and emotionally is affected.

Much like someone who gets diabetes, it can stay with someone for the rest of their lives. We do have to acknowledge that illness/tragedy whatever it may be can manifest itself emotionally, mentally and psychologically and also affect someone physically. Our bodies are not immune to break downs, post traumatic stress, anxiety, depression and so on.

I still agree that we as Christians need to stay clear of any of man's psychology because it does not deal with our sin, our whole being which is in Christ Jesus. That being said, I also believe that many who are Christians and who have or are suffering horribly, who seek God through His Word, who are in a relationship with Him and who have reached out to the Body of Christ have not always found the love and support that is needed.

I have known many who have gone to God's Word, but, also needed other Christians to help them bear their burdens but we're rejected, judged and criticized. So, we need to ask ourselves that if this is happening what needs to change? I believe we need to be the one's to love those who are wanting to grow right where they are, in their hurts, their sufferings. We need to be careful that we are not acting in pride by thinking/assuming we know what someone else is going through and that for some it might be a daily struggle and I will say it again, it does not mean they are not trusting in God, it does not mean they are not growing in their faith just because they are still suffering PTS or anxiety/panic attacks or mood swings or whatever. I have had things said to me in my suffering by other Christians that was just not right, I was told that I didn't have enough faith, I was told that I just need to laugh more and so on. I'd really like to see someone else who is experiencing the symptoms of severe chronic pain and not able to take anything for it for almost 20 years and daily seizures and mental/emotional symptoms added in walk around with a constant smile and not be affected! While someone who says these things can have a health issue hit them and run to the e.r. to be given a narcotic because they can't handle the pain? I have seen the most beautiful Christians suffer horribly and still trust in Jesus through it all and I have known some who have also taken their life.

I agree that God wants to do a work in us, to change us to become more like Him and that will happen through the washing of His word, through our trusting in Him, but, even in our broken bodies and minds, some of us will suffer sins of anxiety, depression, PTS, anger, psychosis, whatever, and these are a part of our sin sick world. How is a person going to "feel" if these symptoms are a part of their life, all their lives? And, how are they going to feel when others don't understand because they've never walked in this type of suffering? When they think it has more to do with not enough faith or that their negative and then they are judged and shunned? If God has allowed/permitted certain kinds of sufferings in peoples lives their is I believe a purpose and even when that person will struggle a long time with it or for the rest of their lives, it is I believe God's purpose to conform them to His image in a relationship with them and their faith growing but it does not mean they will be instantaneously healed.
In my personal life, I am growing and trusting God to do His work in me, it has been and continues to be a daily struggle as I continue to struggle with ill health/pain, does it look perfect? No, I guess I could say it is far from perfect or even good! Sin affects every part of our lives and not only has this affected my marriage, but, my DH is not a Christians so in addition to ill health, it is a daily struggle also to walk out my daily life with God. I have some good days and some days are not so good and some really bad days. I fail miserably, I don't know if my marriage will survive and many days I want to give up, not because I don't trust Him, but, because of the ill health, the marriage and just too much.

But, in His grace, He continues to sustain me. He has carried me through all of it this far and I know that He will continue to do so, but, if I think that I can do it in my own strength I am not trusting Him. Therefore let us all be careful not to pass judgment because some are struggling more than others and we think they should be past it or that they should be doing better.

May we all be given a heart like Jesus to remember that we are first to love and to remember that it is only in and through Him that we can show that love and that in our own strength we will fail.
This!:agree
 
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