Titus 2 Mentor

cheeky200386

Well-Known Member
I would love to find a Titus 2:3-5 older woman to mentor me in being a submissive wife. Someone who I could share my struggles with and they would rebuke and point me back to scripture, to pray for me. I want to so desperately to live out 1 Peter 3 with my unbelieving husband but am finding it virtually impossible to submit to him. Gentle and quiet are the complete opposite of me sadly. I realize more and more how pervasive and deep the roots of this evil feminist culture go in my thinking. It would be wonderful to have guidance on daily practical examples that I face.

Has anyone on here found someone like this and what did you notice in your growth and marriage? I'm thinking of asking my pastor if he knows of an older woman in church who would have the time and desire to teach me. Sadly all the women in my church, including my pastor's wife, are very feisty and irritable. I haven't met any gentle and meek ones personally.
 

Everlasting Life

Through Faith in Jesus
Hi there cheeky, are you feisty in Christ at times too? I can identify, believe it or not. :lol

Cheeky, I haven't really had a mentor but I suppose that my MIL has been a great example to me of one who's gentle and particularly who is really good at taking all she's struggling with to the Lord and patiently waiting for Him to either give guidance or for Him to work on her behalf. As all of us, she's not perfect but she knows Who is perfect and can perfectly help.

I know that for me I have to daily choose to put on Christ. Some health challenges can make it easy for me to be reactive as those issues are always there under the surface, so I've had to really learn to be prayerfully careful and alert to what's ticking inside and for God's help in proactively choosing to respond in a Christlike manner....in His power. Now, trust me, this is not a perfect walk but a determined to follow Christ walk.....with days that are not the best days for me and other days better. This is where I'm consistently so thankful for the Lord's abundant grace as He patiently grows me and has grown me in this.....little....by.....little. :) :hug

The other thing that has really helped me is remembering that I cannot change other people, nor am I responsible for their responses and actions. While I can influence by seeking to be a good model by God's strength, I needed to remember that other people are in their own walk and God is doing His own work in them.....which might take different paths and most importantly time than mine. So, with my husband and children I try to be very careful and purposeful to choose to respond gently, patiently and trusting God that He's working.

When at the place you are at right now Cheeky, I was in practice mode. What that looked like was a desire to respond better, fall on my face and then go to God for forgiveness and help. Over time with each type of situation that would get under my skin, God caused me to think on each situation carefully and have a spiritual plan of action when in the moment. A first step was to be aware of my emotions that were surfacing, then get myself into a place to pray post haste! And, I was completely honest with God about how upset I was, and why is there such a problem and what in the world is going on and I'm so tired of this........and then, Lord, please help me to choose your ways, your love, your kindness and to wait on you to work.

Little by little as I was in His word (the Tyndale Life Application Bible was extremely helpful in this. The commentary helps to show the points and lessons of passages and then asks questions that causes one to think about how to apply God's word practically in one's life) God was helping me and growing me in being able to respond Christlike.

And, He also was showing me things about my family to increase understanding and how to approach my family. For instance God showed me that my husband was like a tree that had been damaged and overly pruned in his life to the point of almost death. He needed time to recover from some difficult things that had deeply damaged him. And, I needed to give him time.....not add to that damage, along with allowing God to work in His time and in such a way that brings healing, restoration and health to him. I also needed to purposefully love him and respect him in the ways he needed, to foster a stronger relationship, openness to things of God and to give room for him to respond to God rather than reacting to me and my frustrations. This was an real turning point for me in changing my attitude and approach, which gave room for God to simply do His job. Its so much better when God is doing His job then me trying to 'help him'. :lol And, sometimes I would ask God to encourage me and show me little windows of His work so I wouldn't become discouraged. He was faithful to do this. :)

This process of changing my attitude and approach, in turn cause me to really consider how much I was trusting God to do His job. How much was I resting in Him, waiting for His plan to unfold and that if even it takes longer than I'm impatiently not wanting to wait, trusting that God will do His work. I have found that as I have really sought to focus on my life in the Lord and where He's prompting me to grow in Christ, that other issues have been taken care of by God as He's working on my husband and children. That doesn't mean that there aren't points of time that some things need to be addressed but if I do, I need to be very careful to put aside any anger and lovingly express where I'm struggling (not accusing him, but asking him for his help). That approach has been very helpful and keeps our relationship intact and open for God to work.

I wonder Cheeky if perhaps in your journey you could possibly start a sort of spiritual support group within your church with this? Just as struggling alcoholics need others like them to bolster and encourage and even see progress modeled, so too do we need this within our church communities for the various things we are trying to grow in Christ in. It may be that your honest journey with others will have an amazing impact for your church community and women. Just something to pray and think about. :)
 

Belle of Grace

Longing for Home
I realize more and more how pervasive and deep the roots of this evil feminist culture go in my thinking. It would be wonderful to have guidance on daily practical examples that I face.
Cheeky, you aren't the only one who has struggled with feminist ideas that were placed in my mind prior to the day I surrendered all to Him. I look back now and remember how I thought at that time. I was teaching at a Jr. College and enjoyed the camaraderie of another young woman who vocalized the feminist position on a regular basis. I always agreed with her, and it made me angry that we women had been so oppressed regarding domestic roles and in employment. Thankful that God's Word is what influences my thinking now, not the world's ideas of right and wrong.
 

cheeky200386

Well-Known Member
Hi there cheeky, are you feisty in Christ at times too? I can identify, believe it or not. :lol

Cheeky, I haven't really had a mentor but I suppose that my MIL has been a great example to me of one who's gentle and particularly who is really good at taking all she's struggling with to the Lord and patiently waiting for Him to either give guidance or for Him to work on her behalf. As all of us, she's not perfect but she knows Who is perfect and can perfectly help.

I know that for me I have to daily choose to put on Christ. Some health challenges can make it easy for me to be reactive as those issues are always there under the surface, so I've had to really learn to be prayerfully careful and alert to what's ticking inside and for God's help in proactively choosing to respond in a Christlike manner....in His power. Now, trust me, this is not a perfect walk but a determined to follow Christ walk.....with days that are not the best days for me and other days better. This is where I'm consistently so thankful for the Lord's abundant grace as He patiently grows me and has grown me in this.....little....by.....little. :) :hug

The other thing that has really helped me is remembering that I cannot change other people, nor am I responsible for their responses and actions. While I can influence by seeking to be a good model by God's strength, I needed to remember that other people are in their own walk and God is doing His own work in them.....which might take different paths and most importantly time than mine. So, with my husband and children I try to be very careful and purposeful to choose to respond gently, patiently and trusting God that He's working.

When at the place you are at right now Cheeky, I was in practice mode. What that looked like was a desire to respond better, fall on my face and then go to God for forgiveness and help. Over time with each type of situation that would get under my skin, God caused me to think on each situation carefully and have a spiritual plan of action when in the moment. A first step was to be aware of my emotions that were surfacing, then get myself into a place to pray post haste! And, I was completely honest with God about how upset I was, and why is there such a problem and what in the world is going on and I'm so tired of this........and then, Lord, please help me to choose your ways, your love, your kindness and to wait on you to work.

Little by little as I was in His word (the Tyndale Life Application Bible was extremely helpful in this. The commentary helps to show the points and lessons of passages and then asks questions that causes one to think about how to apply God's word practically in one's life) God was helping me and growing me in being able to respond Christlike.

And, He also was showing me things about my family to increase understanding and how to approach my family. For instance God showed me that my husband was like a tree that had been damaged and overly pruned in his life to the point of almost death. He needed time to recover from some difficult things that had deeply damaged him. And, I needed to give him time.....not add to that damage, along with allowing God to work in His time and in such a way that brings healing, restoration and health to him. I also needed to purposefully love him and respect him in the ways he needed, to foster a stronger relationship, openness to things of God and to give room for him to respond to God rather than reacting to me and my frustrations. This was an real turning point for me in changing my attitude and approach, which gave room for God to simply do His job. Its so much better when God is doing His job then me trying to 'help him'. :lol And, sometimes I would ask God to encourage me and show me little windows of His work so I wouldn't become discouraged. He was faithful to do this. :)

This process of changing my attitude and approach, in turn cause me to really consider how much I was trusting God to do His job. How much was I resting in Him, waiting for His plan to unfold and that if even it takes longer than I'm impatiently not wanting to wait, trusting that God will do His work. I have found that as I have really sought to focus on my life in the Lord and where He's prompting me to grow in Christ, that other issues have been taken care of by God as He's working on my husband and children. That doesn't mean that there aren't points of time that some things need to be addressed but if I do, I need to be very careful to put aside any anger and lovingly express where I'm struggling (not accusing him, but asking him for his help). That approach has been very helpful and keeps our relationship intact and open for God to work.

I wonder Cheeky if perhaps in your journey you could possibly start a sort of spiritual support group within your church with this? Just as struggling alcoholics need others like them to bolster and encourage and even see progress modeled, so too do we need this within our church communities for the various things we are trying to grow in Christ in. It may be that your honest journey with others will have an amazing impact for your church community and women. Just something to pray and think about. :)
That was encouraging to read. I am definitely fiesty but not in a cute way. My anger and bossiness has definitely hurt my marriage over the years. I've struggled to be submissive and gracious when I disagree with my husband. Now that we have a son, it feels 100 times harder.

I love the idea of connecting with other women at church for support. I'll pray about that. I would really love a one on one friendship with an older woman who could come along side me as I struggle in this area. I can see the amazing help it would be to have another person who can rebuke and encourage him through example and God's Word.

God bless you for sharing the lessons you learned in your own marriage. Too bad you're not closer my way :D. I'll keep my eye out for an older lady willing to adopt me. Lol
 

cheeky200386

Well-Known Member
Cheeky, you aren't the only one who has struggled with feminist ideas that were placed in my mind prior to the day I surrendered all to Him. I look back now and remember how I thought at that time. I was teaching at a Jr. College and enjoyed the camaraderie of another young woman who vocalized the feminist position on a regular basis. I always agreed with her, and it made me angry that we women had been so oppressed regarding domestic roles and in employment. Thankful that God's Word is what influences my thinking now, not the world's ideas of right and wrong.
Yes it's some a common thinking pattern among women now. It's really sad. We see the fruit of it in the divorce rates, the rise in leftists ideas (they are mainly pushed by women), the doctrines of demons (also often led by women). Satan sure loves going after women. His strategy always works.
 

athenasius

Well-Known Member
I would love to find a Titus 2:3-5 older woman to mentor me in being a submissive wife. Someone who I could share my struggles with and they would rebuke and point me back to scripture, to pray for me. I want to so desperately to live out 1 Peter 3 with my unbelieving husband but am finding it virtually impossible to submit to him. Gentle and quiet are the complete opposite of me sadly. I realize more and more how pervasive and deep the roots of this evil feminist culture go in my thinking. It would be wonderful to have guidance on daily practical examples that I face.

Has anyone on here found someone like this and what did you notice in your growth and marriage? I'm thinking of asking my pastor if he knows of an older woman in church who would have the time and desire to teach me. Sadly all the women in my church, including my pastor's wife, are very feisty and irritable. I haven't met any gentle and meek ones personally.
Cheeky if you don't find her, at least right away, maybe the Holy Spirit is your mentor. I pray you find her, but if not, I know that God will carry you thru to that Titus woman that He is building in you.

The fact you feel convicted, and are working to change to conform to the image of Christ, submitting as He did, to the task of the Cross means that you are becoming that Titus woman. Nailing the old you to the Cross, and taking up your cross and following HIM.

Be careful of other people's teachings on submission, because they might not know exactly what you are up against, or what God is calling you to do in a particular circumstance.

I've seen abused women being told to stay in marriages that could've killed them or their kids because of the wrong understanding of submission.

First we submit to God, then our husband. If our husband is doing something wrong, we don't submit to his sin. If he isn't, then we submit, even if it doesn't make sense or seems hard.

I struggled with this a LOT in my earlier years. I look back and shudder and think only the Grace of God got us thru. But each day, I was confronted by the Holy Spirit over and over and over. I was willing to change even if I hated the process.

I constantly prayed for George's salvation. He wasn't saved when we married. I thought he was-- but I deceived myself on that subject. He wasn't. His actual salvation came about 8 or 9 years later. After much prayer.

And it wasn't all roses then either. George was worse after committing his life to the Lord.

Because of the attack of the enemy on new Christians. (Watch out for that when yours gets saved). That fed into my thoughts of divorce as a solution, so I had to lay that on the altar regularly too.

I was angry, there were a number of causes -- one big one I'll explain below, but change had to start with me.

He was verbally abusive with our kids, very angry, hair trigger temper at times. That made it so much more difficult. Because I couldn't accept that. I had to confront that.

I wasn't that picture perfect submissive wife that the devotionals written about submissive wives talk about. I wanted to be her. I was so torn, but not when my kids were the target of his anger.

So when that was happening, I was pushing back, the kids heard, because George didn't keep our arguments tidy after the kids were in bed like I'd have preferred. He didn't care if he hurt the kids. I pushed back equally loudly because if he wouldn't save it for later, the kids would've been more damaged by absorbing what their father was yelling about them without having me present the truth equally loudly.

I'd do it again, because in that situation submitting to sin wasn't the right thing. At the time I just felt like a failure.

Where it came to his inability to stop his parents from running our lives, I learnt more submission. And I grew to truly, deeply love them both, instead of disliking them. It took longer for me to stop trying to fix the debt by making more money. But that was later when I submitted to God about quitting nursing and homeschooling the kids. God got us thru it all. And God's lessons were best.

It was difficult to know the balance. When to support and submit, when to resist and put limits. How to support him in a Godly way, not enabling him to be abusive with the children, not papering over the problems, but constructively actively being a helpmate and a loving support.

It was a balancing act. First the Word BE IN THE BIBLE DAILY-- then I asked is this Godly? is it safe for the kids? If so, I was all for it. If not, then asking God quickly under my breath, WHAT NOW LORD?, how do I deal with this? A lot of that kind of prayer.

I remember one particular session in which I stopped him from verbally tearing apart our son yet again. I stopped him, put the kids to bed and confronted him. Our son was about 10 and our daughter about 7. About 3 years after G got saved.

He was frustrated, and threw my lack of submission in my face. I told him exactly what he was doing, and that it was wrong, and he went off to our bedroom in an angry huff. I remember just crumpling up on the couch, and praying DEAR GOD deal with him please, this is destroying our son. I can't deal with this anymore. Then I felt peace and left it alone, kept on reading my book.

An hour or two later he came out of our bedroom white and shaky. I asked what was wrong and he said God showed him what he had done, and it was very wrong, killing our son inside, and that he wasn't to discipline our kids any more but to leave it to me.

From that point on, he did change. He had the odd relapse but nothing like the rage that would come to the surface when he "disciplined". He left the discipline to me. It's an area he is weak in, doing that was my way of submitting, yet being that help mate. However this was our biggest battle. He has thanked me over and over for my actions in this time.

That was a few years before we began to homeschool the kids thru high school. I quit my career as an RN, leaving behind my ability to solve any debt crisis that we had. Then our financial problems got worse but not due to either of us this time, so more prayer. God brought us thru it all.

Now he is heartsick at what he once was, what he once did, and how close he came to driving me away and destroying our kids lives, especially our son who was his main target in those early years. He knows.

God intervened. Because I prayed thru each challenge.

Not from the submit at all costs model that I sometimes hear preached, but the Godly submission that doesn't throw the kids under the bus, or paper over the wrongs.

What I'm saying is focus on the submission to GOD first, then husband comes second. Submission must first be to God. Then the balancing act gets easier, to know when to submit, and when to resist.

Our son still has some scars from that. He is a healthy functioning Christian adult, as is our daughter, but they both remember.

It was bad, but I don't gas light them and pretend it didn't happen. We are honest about the past. Including George.

It's hard, life is hard. None of us get out without some scars. I'm pretty sure that your "fiesty" side is a response to injuries that you've endured, boundaries that were crossed and ignored. You might have to go back and confront the parts of your past where those injuries took place and apply the knowledge that you now have into that past situation.

If I could have prevented our children from taking damage, I would have, and I very nearly divorced over it. I most certainly would if that abuse had continued, or gotten physical. I was in constant prayer as each situation erupted.

He also did the hard work of changing.

I can't imagine life now without him, even though the way was a little rough and bumpy in spots. I love him dearly. I'm so glad he changed and I changed and we let God change us and remake us.

If I had divorced then, the kids wouldn't have gotten to know the love of their dad, the changes he made after that watershed moment, the life we all built in the years afterwards. And they'd have taken the damage from that divorce into their futures.

Like us, our kids live in a fallen world. Like all of us we all bear our share of the wounds and scars of living in this fallen world. None of us gets out of here unscathed by the battle, the warfare for our very souls.

Be careful to submit first and foremost to God, then to your husband. And always in prayer over each situation because we are all different.

There are no perfect ways to become the perfect Christian wife and mother.

Just allow yourself to be a broken woman taking it to the Lord in prayer for forgiveness, healing, for walking in Him, for wisdom for each day and each night as they come. That way you will all be healed and walk free of the past that each of you have endured.

Love
M
 
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cheeky200386

Well-Known Member
Cheeky if you don't find her, at least right away, maybe the Holy Spirit is your mentor. I pray you find her, but if not, I know that God will carry you thru to that Titus woman that He is building in you.

The fact you feel convicted, and are working to change to conform to the image of Christ, submitting as He did, to the task of the Cross means that you are becoming that Titus woman. Nailing the old you to the Cross, and taking up your cross and following HIM.

Be careful of other people's teachings on submission, because they might not know exactly what you are up against, or what God is calling you to do in a particular circumstance.

I've seen abused women being told to stay in marriages that could've killed them or their kids because of the wrong understanding of submission.

First we submit to God, then our husband. If our husband is doing something wrong, we don't submit to his sin. If he isn't, then we submit, even if it doesn't make sense or seems hard.

I struggled with this a LOT in my earlier years. I look back and shudder and think only the Grace of God got us thru. But each day, I was confronted by the Holy Spirit over and over and over. I was willing to change even if I hated the process.

I constantly prayed for George's salvation. He wasn't saved when we married. I thought he was-- but I deceived myself on that subject. He wasn't. His actual salvation came about 8 or 9 years later. After much prayer.

And it wasn't all roses then either. George was worse after committing his life to the Lord.

Because of the attack of the enemy on new Christians. (Watch out for that when yours gets saved). That fed into my thoughts of divorce as a solution, so I had to lay that on the altar regularly too.

I was angry, there were a number of causes -- one big one I'll explain below, but change had to start with me.

He was verbally abusive with our kids, very angry, hair trigger temper at times. That made it so much more difficult. Because I couldn't accept that. I had to confront that.

I wasn't that picture perfect submissive wife that the devotionals written about submissive wives talk about. I wanted to be her. I was so torn, but not when my kids were the target of his anger.

So when that was happening, I was pushing back, the kids heard, because George didn't keep our arguments tidy after the kids were in bed like I'd have preferred. He didn't care if he hurt the kids. I pushed back equally loudly because if he wouldn't save it for later, the kids would've been more damaged by absorbing what their father was yelling about them without having me present the truth equally loudly.

I'd do it again, because in that situation submitting to sin wasn't the right thing. At the time I just felt like a failure.

Where it came to his inability to stop his parents from running our lives, I learnt more submission. And I grew to truly, deeply love them both, instead of disliking them. It took longer for me to stop trying to fix the debt by making more money. But that was later when I submitted to God about quitting nursing and homeschooling the kids. God got us thru it all. And God's lessons were best.

It was difficult to know the balance. When to support and submit, when to resist and put limits. How to support him in a Godly way, not enabling him to be abusive with the children, not papering over the problems, but constructively actively being a helpmate and a loving support.

It was a balancing act. First the Word BE IN THE BIBLE DAILY-- then I asked is this Godly? is it safe for the kids? If so, I was all for it. If not, then asking God quickly under my breath, WHAT NOW LORD?, how do I deal with this? A lot of that kind of prayer.

I remember one particular session in which I stopped him from verbally tearing apart our son yet again. I stopped him, put the kids to bed and confronted him. Our son was about 10 and our daughter about 7. About 3 years after G got saved.

He was frustrated, and threw my lack of submission in my face. I told him exactly what he was doing, and that it was wrong, and he went off to our bedroom in an angry huff. I remember just crumpling up on the couch, and praying DEAR GOD deal with him please, this is destroying our son. I can't deal with this anymore. Then I felt peace and left it alone, kept on reading my book.

An hour or two later he came out of our bedroom white and shaky. I asked what was wrong and he said God showed him what he had done, and it was very wrong, killing our son inside, and that he wasn't to discipline our kids any more but to leave it to me.

From that point on, he did change. He had the odd relapse but nothing like the rage that would come to the surface when he "disciplined". He left the discipline to me. It's an area he is weak in, doing that was my way of submitting, yet being that help mate. However this was our biggest battle. He has thanked me over and over for my actions in this time.

That was a few years before we began to homeschool the kids thru high school. I quit my career as an RN, leaving behind my ability to solve any debt crisis that we had. Then our financial problems got worse but not due to either of us this time, so more prayer. God brought us thru it all.

Now he is heartsick at what he once was, what he once did, and how close he came to driving me away and destroying our kids lives, especially our son who was his main target in those early years. He knows.

God intervened. Because I prayed thru each challenge.

Not from the submit at all costs model that I sometimes hear preached, but the Godly submission that doesn't throw the kids under the bus, or paper over the wrongs.

What I'm saying is focus on the submission to GOD first, then husband comes second. Submission must first be to God. Then the balancing act gets easier, to know when to submit, and when to resist.

Our son still has some scars from that. He is a healthy functioning Christian adult, as is our daughter, but they both remember.

It was bad, but I don't gas light them and pretend it didn't happen. We are honest about the past. Including George.

It's hard, life is hard. None of us get out without some scars. I'm pretty sure that your "fiesty" side is a response to injuries that you've endured, boundaries that were crossed and ignored. You might have to go back and confront the parts of your past where those injuries took place and apply the knowledge that you now have into that past situation.

If I could have prevented our children from taking damage, I would have, and I very nearly divorced over it. I most certainly would if that abuse had continued, or gotten physical. I was in constant prayer as each situation erupted.

He also did the hard work of changing.

I can't imagine life now without him, even though the way was a little rough and bumpy in spots. I love him dearly. I'm so glad he changed and I changed and we let God change us and remake us.

If I had divorced then, the kids wouldn't have gotten to know the love of their dad, the changes he made after that watershed moment, the life we all built in the years afterwards. And they'd have taken the damage from that divorce into their futures.

Like us, our kids live in a fallen world. Like all of us we all bear our share of the wounds and scars of living in this fallen world. None of us gets out of here unscathed by the battle, the warfare for our very souls.

Be careful to submit first and foremost to God, then to your husband. And always in prayer over each situation because we are all different.

There are no perfect ways to become the perfect Christian wife and mother.

Just allow yourself to be a broken woman taking it to the Lord in prayer for forgiveness, healing, for walking in Him, for wisdom for each day and each night as they come. That way you will all be healed and walk free of the past that each of you have endured.

Love
M
This brought tears to my eyes. Can you adopt me?! In all seriousness though, your story is incredible and I hear the wisdom of a faith that was tested through fire.

Oh yes, I saw physical and verbal abuse growing up between my parents and verbal abuse towards us kids. At a young age I learned to be sensitive of the emotional environment to know how to survive it. Being with my husband has taught me a lot about my codependency.

Since becoming a Christian, God has freed me of a lot of that. My anger is still explosive and as my parents did, using sarcasm and underhanded comments to attach are my specialty. I'm ashamed to admit it, but I have gotten physical by pushing my husband on a couple of occasions.

The challenge I face is in reeling in my temper when I feel my husband micromanage my decisions to ones I don't see that big (don't let Peter eat that there, wipe his hand now, etc ..). It's a miracle he trusts me alone with Peter when he's not there. I saw him do that with his daughter and years later she complained how stifling it was.

Mike knows this but is so rigid that he doesn't always catch it in the moment. I struggle because I know it's not sin but man is it suffocating. I always snap and yell it at him, wanting to just escape. Yet with so many bigger issues, he seems to lack care.

I completely agree that sin is a hard no, but as you shared it often gets muddied. I just know I will not be able to be quiet if I see him deflating my son with his micromanaging, and harshness. He speaks to us as if we're army recruits. Loud and harsh. It really boils my blood.

Since having Peter, the fighting has just escalated because now he has my parenting to comment on and our son to deal with. My mama bear is constantly on edge. I've spoken to Mike on this, he'll admit to these issues but nothing changes.

I know what you mean about Satan attacking so viciously once we're first saved. I remember it for myself but I hadn't thought of that for Mike in the future.

What was it that you believe made your husband worse post salvation? It sounds like he had the anger problem already. I'm definitely going to pray about this for Mike and me.

Thank you for being so open in sharing your past struggles. It definitely helps me in seeing how difficult it is for others too. It's not just a cut and dry formula.
 
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cheeky200386

Well-Known Member
Cheeky if you don't find her, at least right away, maybe the Holy Spirit is your mentor. I pray you find her, but if not, I know that God will carry you thru to that Titus woman that He is building in you.

The fact you feel convicted, and are working to change to conform to the image of Christ, submitting as He did, to the task of the Cross means that you are becoming that Titus woman. Nailing the old you to the Cross, and taking up your cross and following HIM.

Be careful of other people's teachings on submission, because they might not know exactly what you are up against, or what God is calling you to do in a particular circumstance.

I've seen abused women being told to stay in marriages that could've killed them or their kids because of the wrong understanding of submission.

First we submit to God, then our husband. If our husband is doing something wrong, we don't submit to his sin. If he isn't, then we submit, even if it doesn't make sense or seems hard.

I struggled with this a LOT in my earlier years. I look back and shudder and think only the Grace of God got us thru. But each day, I was confronted by the Holy Spirit over and over and over. I was willing to change even if I hated the process.

I constantly prayed for George's salvation. He wasn't saved when we married. I thought he was-- but I deceived myself on that subject. He wasn't. His actual salvation came about 8 or 9 years later. After much prayer.

And it wasn't all roses then either. George was worse after committing his life to the Lord.

Because of the attack of the enemy on new Christians. (Watch out for that when yours gets saved). That fed into my thoughts of divorce as a solution, so I had to lay that on the altar regularly too.

I was angry, there were a number of causes -- one big one I'll explain below, but change had to start with me.

He was verbally abusive with our kids, very angry, hair trigger temper at times. That made it so much more difficult. Because I couldn't accept that. I had to confront that.

I wasn't that picture perfect submissive wife that the devotionals written about submissive wives talk about. I wanted to be her. I was so torn, but not when my kids were the target of his anger.

So when that was happening, I was pushing back, the kids heard, because George didn't keep our arguments tidy after the kids were in bed like I'd have preferred. He didn't care if he hurt the kids. I pushed back equally loudly because if he wouldn't save it for later, the kids would've been more damaged by absorbing what their father was yelling about them without having me present the truth equally loudly.

I'd do it again, because in that situation submitting to sin wasn't the right thing. At the time I just felt like a failure.

Where it came to his inability to stop his parents from running our lives, I learnt more submission. And I grew to truly, deeply love them both, instead of disliking them. It took longer for me to stop trying to fix the debt by making more money. But that was later when I submitted to God about quitting nursing and homeschooling the kids. God got us thru it all. And God's lessons were best.

It was difficult to know the balance. When to support and submit, when to resist and put limits. How to support him in a Godly way, not enabling him to be abusive with the children, not papering over the problems, but constructively actively being a helpmate and a loving support.

It was a balancing act. First the Word BE IN THE BIBLE DAILY-- then I asked is this Godly? is it safe for the kids? If so, I was all for it. If not, then asking God quickly under my breath, WHAT NOW LORD?, how do I deal with this? A lot of that kind of prayer.

I remember one particular session in which I stopped him from verbally tearing apart our son yet again. I stopped him, put the kids to bed and confronted him. Our son was about 10 and our daughter about 7. About 3 years after G got saved.

He was frustrated, and threw my lack of submission in my face. I told him exactly what he was doing, and that it was wrong, and he went off to our bedroom in an angry huff. I remember just crumpling up on the couch, and praying DEAR GOD deal with him please, this is destroying our son. I can't deal with this anymore. Then I felt peace and left it alone, kept on reading my book.

An hour or two later he came out of our bedroom white and shaky. I asked what was wrong and he said God showed him what he had done, and it was very wrong, killing our son inside, and that he wasn't to discipline our kids any more but to leave it to me.

From that point on, he did change. He had the odd relapse but nothing like the rage that would come to the surface when he "disciplined". He left the discipline to me. It's an area he is weak in, doing that was my way of submitting, yet being that help mate. However this was our biggest battle. He has thanked me over and over for my actions in this time.

That was a few years before we began to homeschool the kids thru high school. I quit my career as an RN, leaving behind my ability to solve any debt crisis that we had. Then our financial problems got worse but not due to either of us this time, so more prayer. God brought us thru it all.

Now he is heartsick at what he once was, what he once did, and how close he came to driving me away and destroying our kids lives, especially our son who was his main target in those early years. He knows.

God intervened. Because I prayed thru each challenge.

Not from the submit at all costs model that I sometimes hear preached, but the Godly submission that doesn't throw the kids under the bus, or paper over the wrongs.

What I'm saying is focus on the submission to GOD first, then husband comes second. Submission must first be to God. Then the balancing act gets easier, to know when to submit, and when to resist.

Our son still has some scars from that. He is a healthy functioning Christian adult, as is our daughter, but they both remember.

It was bad, but I don't gas light them and pretend it didn't happen. We are honest about the past. Including George.

It's hard, life is hard. None of us get out without some scars. I'm pretty sure that your "fiesty" side is a response to injuries that you've endured, boundaries that were crossed and ignored. You might have to go back and confront the parts of your past where those injuries took place and apply the knowledge that you now have into that past situation.

If I could have prevented our children from taking damage, I would have, and I very nearly divorced over it. I most certainly would if that abuse had continued, or gotten physical. I was in constant prayer as each situation erupted.

He also did the hard work of changing.

I can't imagine life now without him, even though the way was a little rough and bumpy in spots. I love him dearly. I'm so glad he changed and I changed and we let God change us and remake us.

If I had divorced then, the kids wouldn't have gotten to know the love of their dad, the changes he made after that watershed moment, the life we all built in the years afterwards. And they'd have taken the damage from that divorce into their futures.

Like us, our kids live in a fallen world. Like all of us we all bear our share of the wounds and scars of living in this fallen world. None of us gets out of here unscathed by the battle, the warfare for our very souls.

Be careful to submit first and foremost to God, then to your husband. And always in prayer over each situation because we are all different.

There are no perfect ways to become the perfect Christian wife and mother.

Just allow yourself to be a broken woman taking it to the Lord in prayer for forgiveness, healing, for walking in Him, for wisdom for each day and each night as they come. That way you will all be healed and walk free of the past that each of you have endured.

Love
M
Thank you so much for the reminder to submit to God first and get in his Word Daily. I do believe God will help me in the moment responses the closer I am to him. Lately I've been reading his word here and there not studying it like I have in the past. This spiritual battle of my marriage is definitely the hardest thing I have ever done. I'm sure parenting will rise up higher once Peter gets older and more defiant.
 

Belle of Grace

Longing for Home
Lately I've been reading his word here and there not studying it like I have in the past.
Cheeky, last week I prayed and asked the Lord to help me get going with a systematic Bible reading plan. I know that hit & miss reading is not often helpful, unless it's in the Psalms. But reading an entire book of the Bible before moving to another place in it, helps to give us proper context, without which we will not have a clear understanding of what we're reading. I have been reading Matthew. In addition to reading it, I've also been listening to some sermons by Andy Woods on Matthew. The series is called The Coming Kingdom. He does a great job of explaining the gospel of the Kingdom vs. the gospel message of grace for individual salvation. Matthew is often taught incorrectly because the two perspectives are often conflated & confused.
 

Everlasting Life

Through Faith in Jesus
First of all, some great suggestions and sharing in this thread!!
God intervened. Because I prayed thru each challenge.

Not from the submit at all costs model that I sometimes hear preached, but the Godly submission that doesn't throw the kids under the bus, or paper over the wrongs.

athenasius, great, wonderful, hard earned wisdom!!! And, what a wonderful testimony of God's work in response to your looking to Him! Very encouraging and strengthening! I love how you speak of submission that's good for all involved. I had to make a similar decision with another, extended family member myself and that was really tough but the right path.


I've spoken to Mike on this, he'll admit to these issues


I was wondering Cheeky, if perhaps a starting point (after reading God's Word, prayer and submission to God) is having a conversation with Mike, during a time when you both are at ease and he's feeling relaxed, about possibly having an agreed upon signal that he's stifling your son (just keep it to this subject), so in the moment that small signal will communicate what's happening and what's needed (and pray silently at the same time for God's help). Since it's your son that you are most concerned about right now, this might be a smaller step in the right direction.

Do you have a suggested replacement action he could consider doing instead? Replacing unhelpful actions with better actions and having that in mind is a good idea (and thank him for doing this when he does!!). Then, later, perhaps you can ask him what exactly his concern is when he's engaging in this? Is this how he was raised or is he worried about something? What's ticking behind this? Is your son stirring up some things for him (God does use our children to draw us to Him and grow us in Him)?

You might also consider how you would like to purposefully (and Godly) respond to Mike in the moment if he's is having a hard time and not moving towards gentleness with your son. What do you need to do to not allow further hurt? And, perhaps be thinking what are your boundaries? When conversation begins in a critical way towards you, would it just be best to go into another room to give him space to re-think his actions?

Of course the ultimate answer is his need to put faith in Jesus, however, in the process of this, developing deeper care and concern for where your husband is coming from is very helpful (I'm not talking about enabling bad behavior here, but rather kind of helping him investigate what's happening for him inside during these moments).

I'm just thinking of some actionable application ideas.

With that being said, I'm praying for your husband and this situation. Cheeky, you've shown wonderful humbleness and honesty in seeking help and desiring what God desires......this is commendable for it's the humble heart that God draws close to.


The high and lofty one who lives in eternity,
the Holy One, says this:
“I live in the high and holy place
with those whose spirits are contrite and humble.
I restore the crushed spirit of the humble


Isaiah 57:15
 

Jojo4124

Well-Known Member
We "adopted" a grandma When we were 1st in the ministry. Her hub had passed. She was full of the joy of the Lord and ŕead the Bible for hours daily. She had a stack of missonary's cards she'd pray for. What a gift she was to us...she was a real Grandma to my kids.

She'd gone thru a lot of trials in her life, and could worship Jesus like she did! Always a hymn on her lips!

Maybe an elderly lady, even at a nursing home if they allow that now. Many elderly love being "adopted" n have such wisdom to share. Both parties benefit a ton. Isn't God amazing how He does things?!!

Praying God brings you to someone or them to you! Keep a look out!!! God will give you the desires of your heart as they honor Him! You have a beautiful heart!!!!
 

cheeky200386

Well-Known Member
Cheeky, last week I prayed and asked the Lord to help me get going with a systematic Bible reading plan. I know that hit & miss reading is not often helpful, unless it's in the Psalms. But reading an entire book of the Bible before moving to another place in it, helps to give us proper context, without which we will not have a clear understanding of what we're reading. I have been reading Matthew. In addition to reading it, I've also been listening to some sermons by Andy Woods on Matthew. The series is called The Coming Kingdom. He does a great job of explaining the gospel of the Kingdom vs. the gospel message of grace for individual salvation. Matthew is often taught incorrectly because the two perspectives are often conflated & confused.
Oh sorry I mean that I have been inconsistent with my reading in general. I completely agree with you, reading out of context doesn't help with understanding of what's being said. I started all over from Genesis again and have taken longer than I should because I'll read a chapter today and then won't go back until a few days later. I should already be done with this read through of the Bible already.

I find it easier to listen to Sermons on Bible verse studies than sitting down these days.
 
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