This changed my thoughts about Satan

Hallelujah

Well-Known Member
My Dear Followers of Jesus Christ,

I have thought for the vast majority of my life about Satan - How he works. What role he plays, and the other fallen angels. And, often pondered why God allows things to happen. Such as, allow us to be tempted.

The truth is Bad things to happen to people. To good people. To bad people. To Christians. To unbelievers. And the list goes on.

I believed in the past that Satan was God's adversary. The following verse changed my perspective:

Luke 4:8 KJV

And Jesus answered and said unto him, (Words in red of Jesus) - "Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve."

My perspective changed.

I now see Satan as an instrument of God's wrath. I also fear God, and his judgement. Knowing this, helps me put on the breastplate of righteousness. And, battle with the sword all things that are evil and wrong. These battles are everywhere.

I, nor anyone else is perfect. We will all make mistakes. That's okay. The point is to keep on with the good fight, strive to be like Jesus.

Hallelujah!
 

Andy C

Well-Known Member
I don't see Satan as an instrument of God's wrath. If Satan had never tempted Eve in the Garden of Eden bringing sin into the world, God's wrath wouldn't be necessary, because their would not be sinners and unbelievers in the world.
Concur. In the below the dark one is described as an adversary.

1 Peter 5

5. Likewise you younger people, submit yourselves to your elders. Yes, all of you be submissive to one another, and be clothed with humility, for

“God resists the proud,
But gives grace to the humble.”
6 Therefore humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God, that He may exalt you in due time, 7 casting all your care upon Him, for He cares for you.

8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.
 

SarahRose

Well-Known Member
Personally I see Satan as one of God’s creations that foolishly decided to turn away from Him in pursuit of his own power.

It’s like the first example of being prideful and elevating oneself above the One who made them.

And, since Satan was powerful to begin with, he’s able to take a lot of angels and people down with him. Not that he forces anyone to go with him, but he is smart enough to make others think they too will be powerful by following him instead of God.
 

cheeky200386

Well-Known Member
I see Satan as God's and our adversary based on the scriptures listed above. I do also see how he is on a leash and God uses Satan's attacks against him. Persecution grows the church and our faith. It's kind of funny when I think of it that way. Satan thought he succeeded in killing Jesus but yet it destroyed his power. Lol

1 Corinthians 2:7-8 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
 

pixelpusher

Well-Known Member
Luke 4:8 KJV

And Jesus answered and said unto him, (Words in red of Jesus) - "Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve."

My perspective changed.

I now see Satan as an instrument of God's wrath.

So are you saying that because it says "Him only you shall serve", you're coming to the conclusion that Satan serves God as an instrument of His wrath?

A more expanded context is this:
_____________________________
5 And the devil, taking Him up into an high mountain, shewed unto Him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.

6 And the devil said unto Him, All this power will I give Thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.

7 If Thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be Thine.

8 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
____________________________


Satan wanted Jesus to take the action of worshipping him (Satan). Jesus declined, based on the 1st and 2nd Commandments, Deuteronomy 6, and other passages. When He said "thou shalt", He was speaking of Man, because that is to whom those verses and commands were given.


The truth is Bad things to happen to people. To good people. To bad people. To Christians. To unbelievers. And the list goes on.
That's of course because we live in a fallen world under the effects of sin and the curse.


I dont think Satan's rebellion caught The Father off guard. Our names were written before the foundation of the earth. I reckon it was all in His plan. I don't understand it.
I expect that the Church will be presented as an Exhibit in a future Courtroom at Satan's final condemnation. I don't understand it either. Lucifer knew the Glory of God, but he still rebelled. We've loved God and followed Him on faith, without fully knowing His glory.


I *guess* Satan is God's adversary in that he set himself against God, but as if it were possible for any being to even meet the rank of "adversary" against God, who could just say a word and such a one would simply cease to exist if God willed it. He is for sure OUR adversary tho.


Andy Wood's series on Angelology is informative about these things.
 

Matthew6:33

Withstand in the evil day. Eph 6:13
Satan is a created being. He was given free will and great authority in the angelic realm however it was not enough for him. He wanted more. He wanted to be God.
So the Lord took away his authority and any glory that he had to make an example and mockery of him. Satan is in a perpetual state of rebellion against God and everything that is good because of this. He is basically in a temper tantrum state against God.

God could destroy him in an instant and do away with all evil but if He did that there would be no free will, no love, and no opportunity for God to greatly reveal His power, grace, and glory to all of creation.

I think our big problems understanding all of this is that we have a very limited perspective on eternity and God's power.
 

Hallelujah

Well-Known Member
Hello Everyone,

Love all of the comments...This is what I love about discussions and debates. I believe this is how we grow! Let's grow together!

NKJV 2 Timothy 3:16 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction of righteousness.

Disclaimer: I do not claim to be "all knowing." You will find grammatical errors in my posts. Perhaps even a wrong perspective take on scripture. I am still learning. With all this being said - I am simply an "unprofitable servant." - (Luke 17:10)

Nevertheless, my beliefs here based on my previous post about Satan is unchanged.

Allow me to clarify...

When He said "thou shalt", He was speaking of Man

Perhaps he was speaking of man. Perhaps he was making a statement of what He himself should/will do as commanded by God.

KJV Dictionary Definition: thou​

thou​

THOU, pron. in the obj. thee. The second personal pronoun, in the singular number; the pronoun which is used in addressing persons in the solemn style.
He was speaking of Man, because that is to whom those verses and commands were given.
Jesus was a man. God in the flesh.

I believe the following - God created everything and everyone. If God did not choose to allow Satan to have dominion over the earth...
God could destroy him in an instant and do away with all evil but if He did that there would be no free will, no love, and no opportunity for God to greatly reveal His power, grace, and glory to all of creation.

I do not believe that God has any adversary. His will - will be done. If He wishes for something not to happen, He will stop it, instantly. Even Satan.

1 Corinthians 10:13 - NKJV

"No Temptation has overtaken you such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it."

Satan has his limits. He is limited by God. - "An instrument of God's wrath"


Hallelujah!
 
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Everlasting Life

Through Faith in Jesus
I do agree that for a time and only as God allows, satan is used by God for His own purposes. We see this in Job (Job 1), 1 Kings 22 and we see this in Revelation where he's released for a short time in what seems to be a testing of hearts and revealing of the human nature's propensity to sin, even in a perfect kingdom world of our Lord Jesus Christ.

“All right, you may test him,” the Lord said to Satan. “Do whatever you want with everything he possesses, but don’t harm him physically.” So Satan left the Lord’s presence.

Job 1:12

Then Micaiah continued, “Listen to what the Lord says! I saw the Lord sitting on his throne with all the armies of heaven around him, on his right and on his left. 20 And the Lord said, ‘Who can entice Ahab to go into battle against Ramoth-gilead so he can be killed?’

“There were many suggestions, and finally a spirit approached the Lord and said, ‘I can do it!’



“‘How will you do this?’ the Lord asked.

“And the spirit replied, ‘I will go out and inspire all of Ahab’s prophets to speak lies.’

“‘You will succeed,’ said the Lord. ‘Go ahead and do it.’


1 Kings 22:19-22


Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven with the key to the bottomless pit and a heavy chain in his hand. He seized the dragon—that old serpent, who is the devil, Satan—and bound him in chains for a thousand years. The angel threw him into the bottomless pit, which he then shut and locked so Satan could not deceive the nations anymore until the thousand years were finished. Afterward he must be released for a little while.

.....When the thousand years come to an end, Satan will be let out of his prison. He will go out to deceive the nations—called Gog and Magog—in every corner of the earth. He will gather them together for battle—a mighty army, as numberless as sand along the seashore. And I saw them as they went up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded God’s people and the beloved city. But fire from heaven came down on the attacking armies and consumed them.


Revelation 20:1-3, 7-9


So, I can see that God does have purpose for allowing the enemy of our souls certain rope in our world with limits and eventual imprisonment forever, as has been discussed. And, while we are to be wary and congnizent of the enemy of our souls, we can do this by keeping our eyes on Christ, to follow Him and rejoice in His victory over our enemy and more importantly, rejoice that our names are registered in heaven. :)



...When the seventy-two disciples returned, they joyfully reported to him, “Lord, even the demons obey us when we use your name!”

“Yes,” he told them, “I saw Satan fall from heaven like lightning! Look, I have given you authority over all the power of the enemy, and you can walk among snakes and scorpions and crush them. Nothing will injure you. But don’t rejoice because evil spirits obey you; rejoice because your names are registered in heaven.”

Luke 10:17-20
 

Andy C

Well-Known Member
Hello Everyone,

Love all of the comments...This is what I love about discussions and debates. I believe this is how we grow! Let's grow together!

NKJV 2 Timothy 3:16 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction of righteousness.

Disclaimer: I do not claim to be "all knowing." You will find grammatical errors in my posts. Perhaps even a wrong perspective take on scripture. I am still learning. With all this being said - I am simply an "unprofitable servant." - (Luke 17:10)

Nevertheless, my beliefs here based on my previous post about Satan is unchanged.

Allow me to clarify...



Perhaps he was speaking of man. Perhaps he was making a statement of what He himself should/will do as commanded by God.

KJV Dictionary Definition: thou​

thou​

THOU, pron. in the obj. thee. The second personal pronoun, in the singular number; the pronoun which is used in addressing persons in the solemn style.

Jesus was a man. God in the flesh.

I believe the following - God created everything and everyone. If God did not choose to allow Satan to have dominion over the earth...


I do not believe that God has any adversary. His will - will be done. If He wishes for something not to happen, He will stop it, instantly. Even Satan.

1 Corinthians 10:13 - NKJV

"No Temptation has overtaken you such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it."

Satan has his limits. He is limited by God. - "An instrument of God's wrath"


Hallelujah!
Yes, no one can be equal with God, any power satan has, has been allowed by God.

Satan clearly is not equal with God, but by any definition of the word “adversary”, that satan clearly is. Adversary is an opponent in a contest, conflict or dispute, which the dark one is. Clearly satan is not a strong opponent (as compared to God) , kind of like a young kids little league team playing the LA Dodgers. The kids would not have a chance, but they would still be an opponent.

Perhaps there might be a better word for you to hang on to for this discussion vice “adversary, and then we can all grow together.
 

Hallelujah

Well-Known Member
Yes, no one can be equal with God, any power satan has, has been allowed by God.

Satan clearly is not equal with God, but by any definition of the word “adversary”, that satan clearly is. Adversary is an opponent in a contest, conflict or dispute, which the dark one is. Clearly satan is not a strong opponent (as compared to God) , kind of like a young kids little league team playing the LA Dodgers. The kids would not have a chance, but they would still be an opponent.

Perhaps there might be a better word for you to hang on to for this discussion vice “adversary, and then we can all grow together.
Well said - I believe it is futile to debate a whole topic over a single word. But, It does in fact change so much about a meaning/or a point. Event a simple comma or period can completely ruin a sentence and its intended use. I believe growth happens with the scripture. As for the debates or thoughts shared - they will be written by men and women and let's face it, we all make mistakes. The goal I suppose is to provoke thought. Through going to the Bible we can discuss thoughts and the different perspectives the scripture gives us. Ultimately, may God and His glory be manifested through his word. Great feedback - I got a lot from this discussion!
 
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Chris

Administrator
Staff member
Satan existed before the Creation. He and the rest of the angels in Heaven had "free will" and were capable of making right and wrong decisions.

When he made his mistake, the Bible tells us that "sin was found in him" and that he managed to convince about a 1/3 of the angels in Heaven to rebel with him.

Satan and the fallen angels are not given a chance for redemption as they are without excuse as they saw everything that none of us have seen. We walk by faith not by sight.

Satan was a created being just like us, but he and the angels had far more abilities, powers, etc. than we do. They have had access to the throne of God and for that reason they are without excuse. Chances are they watched God go through the whole Creation process. They were probably with the remaining angels in Heaven, are witnesses to the Creation.

I believe Satan like everyone else, has a choice to make and that is basically - "Are you on God's side or not?"

Obviously, Satan and the fallen angels said "we are not on God's side". And because of this and the position that he had before the Fall led to him taking over planet Earth when Adam and Eve sinned.

I don;t think we have all the details, we just have what God wants us to know. We don;t have all the details about the Creation account, God just tells us what we need to know for His purposes.

Just as God can use us fallen men to help do His will, I believe that turn a bad situation into a good one. If that person is willing.

I think God allows Satan to do what he does because the Bible tells us that Satan has to ask for permission to do some things. I think Satan became the "adversary" because he was as the Bible says the greatest of the created beings.

I don't think Satan is God's wrath. Satan is just a willing tool in that as I said God can use people to do further his purposes. Satan does not want to do God's purpose, but somehow God was able to use even Satan in getting people to make a decision for God or not. That doesn;'t mean God is making Satan do what he does, Satan does that on His own. Satan's tricks don't work on God as God know everything. Satan doesn't have that advantage, but that is what makes God who he is - God.

Here's a link to the Satanology teaching from Dr. Fruchtenbaum on the topic of Satan.

http://www.arielcontent.org/dcs/pdf/mbs077m.pdf

And more on "elect" angels:

http://www.arielcontent.org/dcs/pdf/mbs073m.pdf

And finally, info on "fallen" angels:

http://www.arielcontent.org/dcs/pdf/mbs082m.pdf

I hope that helps. :)
 

Matthew6:33

Withstand in the evil day. Eph 6:13
Fun fact: the hebrew word for Satan actually means "adversary" - I think it is literally translated as "the satan" or "the adversary"

Great explanation @Chris

I will throw some things out there that I have thought about and it definitely can make things more interesting (at least in my brain lol).

Does Satan always ask God for permission to do something? I think of a child in rebellion... Are they quick to ask their parent for something? Especially permission? Probably not.

If Satan doesn't ask and just tries to do something God will intervene if it is not in His permissive/allowable will. What could happen?

Now say Satan does ask permission to do something and God grants him permission... Satan has got to think to himself 'why is God letting me do this?' he probably gets pretty worried that he could potentially be used to bring forth greater glory to God. Now he may think twice about what he wants to do. Does he have to follow through after he asks God?

Say God doesn't grant permission to do something. This probably makes Satan want to target an area or those around that area in an even greater way.

I believe things in the spiritual realm may be much more complicated than they appear to us in the flesh.

Of coarse this is all just human speculation.
 

Wally

Choose your words carefully...
As God created all, all can be used as instruments if one wants to see it that way.

As we have being, thought, reason, and have to answer for our actions, there is a different relationship to God as opposed to a thing, like a shovel.

satan himself becomes a victim of God's wrath, eventually to be bound, later released, then judged and cast into the lake of fire to be tormented forever.


Where we can be used as instruments of God, please be careful not to confuse our responsibility and God's sovereignty.
There are some that would blame God for our failures as well as satan's actions.
 

Hallelujah

Well-Known Member
I don't think Satan is God's wrath.
This is correct. Not "God's wrath" simply an instrument of his wrath to come. For those of us that are saved through grace. We are washed white as snow. You see, we all get to choose. Right, or wrong. We will be judged based on all the wrong decisions, or sin that we choose to commit. Love is a choice.
 
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