Third election looking likely with coalition talks at a deadlock

Chris

Administrator
Staff member
Third election looking likely with coalition talks at a deadlock
Events of the last week have pushed Blue and White away from the Likud.
By Lahav Harkov
October 30, 2019

A unity government looked highly unlikely as of Wednesday night, with both the Likud and Blue and White saying negotiations are at an impasse with no chance of a breakthrough. The parties’ negotiating teams are expected to meet on Thursday morning, despite their skepticism. While the parties have said publicly that they want a unity government, behind closed doors, sources in the negotiations do not see a path to a coalition. Blue and White leader Benny Gantz has 21 days left to form a government before the mandate to do so goes to the Knesset, which will then have 21 days for a majority of its members to back a candidate for prime minister. If that does not happen, a third election within a year will be called.


A senior Blue and White source said there has been almost no substance in their meetings with Likud so far, but he hoped they would delve into the political issues on Thursday. He said the Likud’s insistence that Netanyahu be prime minister first in a rotation was a nonstarter as long as Gantz has the mandate to form a government. Likud chief negotiator Yariv Levin said that after Gantz showed willingness to compromise after meeting with Netanyahu, the rest of the “cockpit” – Blue and White’s quadripartite leadership, which also includes Yair Lapid, Moshe Ya’alon and Gabi Ashkenazi – pushed back, leading Gantz to reverse course.
A Blue and White source hinted as much, calling Gantz “politically dense,” which has the positive aspect of him being genuine when he talks about wanting to hear from all parts of the political spectrum, but the negative of him not understanding how to negotiate.

Levin said of Blue and White: “I think they still believe they can form a minority government, and that some of them think another election will be good for them.” “Maybe some of them have a delusion that the bloc [of right-wing parties] will split apart,” he added. “The bloc is stable, very tight.” Gantz implied he was working on breaking up Netanyahu’s 55-seat bloc of religious and right-wing parties. “I can’t give in-depth details of the things that were brought up in conversations with me with the heads of factions, including those making up the 55-seat bloc,” Gantz wrote in a Facebook post marking a week since President Reuven Rivlin tasked him with forming a government. “I can only tell you that the picture drawn in the media is not necessarily accurate.”

Spokesmen and sources from all the factions in the bloc – Bayit Yehudi, New Right, Shas and United Torah Judaism – denied talking to Gantz in the past week, since he called the parties’ leaders immediately after receiving the mandate to build a coalition. At the time, all the bloc’s leaders told him they would not negotiate independently. The only party leader who spoke to Gantz was New Right’s Ayelet Shaked, who exchanged a few words with him in the Knesset plenum on Tuesday, in view of the press gallery and Knesset Channel cameras. But Shaked said the conversation was pleasantries and not coalition talks.

One source in the bloc said that his party is in touch with segments of Blue and White in an attempt to help bring about a unity government, but “there hasn’t been much to discuss, because elements in Blue and White are more interested in replacing Netanyahu than forming a government.” A source in another right-wing party expressed similar frustration at Gantz’s faction’s focus on getting rid of the prime minister. In addition to Blue and White not accepting the Likud negotiators as representing the entire religious-right bloc, the parties disagree on the details of the “president’s plan,” by which Gantz would be Netanyahu’s deputy who would replace him while Netanyahu went on an extended leave to handle his legal woes.

The parties still strongly disagree on when Netanyahu would take leave, and have yet to work out that detail in the negotiations. Blue and White has consistently said it will not sit in a coalition with a prime minister who is under indictment. Since Mandelblit is expected to announce his decision as to whether to indict Netanyahu and on what charges in the next few weeks, that would keep Netanyahu in office for a very short amount of time until Mandelblit formally submits the indictment. The Likud, however, seeks to keep Netanyahu in the Prime Minister’s Office as long as possible, even long after his trial has begun. The party’s negotiators have said Netanyahu should not have to leave office until testimony or the presentation of evidence in court has begun, but they have pushed for the deadline to be as late as a first conviction in court, before an appeal, a source in the negotiations confirmed.
Netanyahu would legally have to leave office only if he were convicted by the Supreme Court.

A senior Blue and White source said the events of the last week have not changed the party negotiators’ mandate. Respect for the rule of law is a priority for Blue and White, and the investigation of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s top aides for allegedly harassing a witness in one of his corruption cases, Justice Minister Amir Ohana’s press conference claiming a conspiracy in the State Attorney’s Office and pro-Netanyahu demonstrations outside Attorney-General Avichai Mandelblit’s house have brought condemnation from Blue and White MKs, but no practical difference.

Likud negotiators said they tried to assuage at least one of Blue and White’s concerns about a rotation for the premiership between the parties’ respective leaders. One of Blue and White’s hesitations about a unity government has been that as prime minister, Netanyahu would have the authority to fire ministers from their party without input from Gantz, sparking another election before Netanyahu goes on leave and Gantz becomes prime minister. The Likud offered to amend the law so that the prime minister would not be able to fire ministers without agreement from his deputy prime minister, which would be Gantz when Netanyahu is in office.

Another compromise the Likud offered was Gantz replacing Netanyahu as prime minister to be part of the package the Knesset votes on when approving the formation of a government, in order not to risk there not being a majority when Gantz becomes premier. “It doesn’t really matter now,” Levin said, “because it’s not clear that they even want a government.” However, a senior Blue and White source said the Likud did not offer either compromise to negotiators, because they had yet to discuss any details of a rotation agreement.

https://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Third-election-looking-likely-with-coalition-talks-at-a-deadlock-606356
 

athenasius

Well-Known Member
barring a miracle --Israel will be in elections for an unprecedented third time this year.

Anything that touches that weird peace plan that Trump's son in law is working on has really unprecedented strange stuff happen-- not just all these elections. Saudi dissident Muslim Brotherhood journalists end up murdered in the Saudi Embassy, France erupts in yellow vest protests when Macron tries to move it along, and again Notre Dame burns to a crisp when Macron tries again to push that elusive peace plan out into the public eye.

3 elections this year can be chalked up to the peace plan not wanting to come out. Supposed to wait till after the first set of elections, nope, no show, because Israel was into a second round, surely after that said everyone, nope, second election same as the first, a little bit louder and a whole lot worse.

I don't think the third election will be the charm either. Nor do I think Gantz will somehow pull on his super statesman costume and emerge as a Prime Minister between now and then.

Instead I think the peace plan is the reason for the political turmoil, and I think it's God's hand holding it all back. I think there are many things that could happen as a result, one being an emboldened muslim opposition to Israel that seeks to take advantage of all the political upheaval. If they take the bait, God will see to it, they are chastened.

But whatever happens, the peace plan gets delayed one more time.

Is anyone surprised by now?
 

Anewcreationinjesus

Well-Known Member
It does make me wonder if it is being held back while more birth pangs increase before the rapture of the church, and if it is the plan that will be strengthened by the AC?? Or indeed yet another thing that ends up not succeeding which is why when the AC appears with his false peace, the world will fall for it.....

How close are we?? Only the Lord knows....
 

OnlyHim

Well-Known Member
What I find a little interesting is how the Hamas rockets have been silent and no major attack has come against Israel since the second election. It's almost as if the Lord is holding things back until Israel gets a government in place. It would seem to me that now would be a good time for Iran or others to attack given the political and governmental turmoil at present.
 

Andy C

Well-Known Member
barring a miracle --Israel will be in elections for an unprecedented third time this year.

Anything that touches that weird peace plan that Trump's son in law is working on has really unprecedented strange stuff happen-- not just all these elections. Saudi dissident Muslim Brotherhood journalists end up murdered in the Saudi Embassy, France erupts in yellow vest protests when Macron tries to move it along, and again Notre Dame burns to a crisp when Macron tries again to push that elusive peace plan out into the public eye.

3 elections this year can be chalked up to the peace plan not wanting to come out. Supposed to wait till after the first set of elections, nope, no show, because Israel was into a second round, surely after that said everyone, nope, second election same as the first, a little bit louder and a whole lot worse.

I don't think the third election will be the charm either. Nor do I think Gantz will somehow pull on his super statesman costume and emerge as a Prime Minister between now and then.

Instead I think the peace plan is the reason for the political turmoil, and I think it's God's hand holding it all back. I think there are many things that could happen as a result, one being an emboldened muslim opposition to Israel that seeks to take advantage of all the political upheaval. If they take the bait, God will see to it, they are chastened.

But whatever happens, the peace plan gets delayed one more time.

Is anyone surprised by now?
What do you believe the impact would be on Likud or Blue and White parties forming a government if Trumps peace plan were released in the next few days, vice waiting to release the plans until after a government is formed?
 

athenasius

Well-Known Member
What do you believe the impact would be on Likud or Blue and White parties forming a government if Trumps peace plan were released in the next few days, vice waiting to release the plans until after a government is formed?
Andy in answering I'm going to go into far more detail that you already know, --but for the sake of newcomers or visitors to the site I'm going to establish some salient facts.

So to answer-- It would depend on the contents. But we have a clue. The State Dept and Trump were fine with Netanyahu talking about annexation of the West Bank.

So if it came BEFORE the elections were sorted out;

I could see Gantz pitching a fit (Blue and White) if Israel is going to be able to go ahead with annexation of the West Bank starting with the Jordan River Valley with Trump's blessing.

It is my guess that Gantz's pre election position would likely try to throw the Mountains of Israel aka Judea and Samaria also known as the West Bank right out and back into Jordanian hands in a reaction against the plan, to get on the "good side" of the globalists, Arab neighbors etc. he would likely make it an election issue.

In case anyone thinks I'm nuts there, I'm thinking back to Moshe Dayan who famously and inexplicably gave control of the Temple Mount RIGHT BACK to Jordan's king under the control of the WAQF when they gained it back in the 1967 war.

Nobody could figure that out but there were 2 reasons I can see, #1 being GOD's Will. (delaying the Temple being built and the sacrifices being started again-- God has His own timetable and there are some prophetic scriptures that hint the Temple is part of the 7 year deal with the Antichrist)

Reason #2 I think is because the secular Jews like Moshe Dayan are more globalist and more likely to appease their enemies by giving away land. It's their knee jerk response. Dayan couldn't see how they could survive more attacks if they kept control of the Temple Mount because God simply didn't figure in his calculations.

In my estimate they are so blinded by the enemy because they don't read or believe their own Tanakh --our Old Testament-- that they don't recognize the foolishness of such actions. Truly the entrance of God's word gives understanding. They lack even that basic minimum.
Psalm 119:130 King James Version (KJV) The entrance of thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding unto the simple.

Gantz prefers to satisfy the demands of the UN and the world at large to give more land to appease Israel's sworn enemies. I don't think he is likely to change. When Netanyahu came out with the Annexation plans, Gantz was bucking and kicking a bit, and I notice he is ignoring some of the religious right who are pressing him right now on his position.

Gantz in my personal opinion is self centered enough-- like a lot of leftists and globalists that he would think that the Israeli voter would think like him, so he'd bet on it, and allow it to become an election issue. He would make the peace plan a referendum issue in the election following it's release.

ON THE OTHER SIDE with Likud, Right wing and Religious Jews under Netanyahu

Religious Jews like Netanyahu (Likud) who read and believe their Tanakh (Old Testament scriptures) are LESS likely to give away land, and they look forward to a time when they will control the land they rightfully have instead of giving it away to appease world demands and their enemies desire to take the land.

So if as Netanyahu hinted just before Election #2, the peace plan is ok with Israel annexing her own territory-- then I expect Likud would use that to shore up support from the religious and right wing Jews as well as the so called settlers (rightful owners) in the West Bank.

The net effect of releasing the plan before the elections might just make Netanyahu the net winner of elections as the right and the religious groups band together to get things done. Gantz would be seen for the danger he poses to Israel's existence.

But a significant number of voters in the Left, and the NON Religious would vote with Gantz so it could go either way.

But that is how I'd think the two sides would react to an early peace plan release before round #3 of elections.

--------------

If the plan is deferred till AFTER the elections are sorted out

--then unless God intervenes
-- I see GANTZ winning this next round-- I tend to think he will win round 3 by a slim margin & create a coalition with the help of the Arab Muslim MKs-- and as leader he would likely want to put HIS own stamp on any peace plan released on his watch, by changing the contents, refusing the plan as a whole and kow towing to the UN and Jordan as fast as possible. He is quite happy to partner with the Muslim Arab Members of the Knesset (MKs) to try to create a government even before the votes were counted this second time round. I expect more of the same from him.

Benjamin Netanyahu and the whole right wing and religious groups would be upset and loud about it.

I could see Iran stirring up Lebanon some more, along with Gaza, Syria and so forth along with Jordan and the Arabs in the West Bank joining in till finally someone invades or does something to take advantage of Israel's divisions within itself. Then Israel would be forced to respond.

-----------------
So to summarize what could happen if the peace plan is revealed before the next round of elections-- I think Gantz might lose, and Netanyahu might win.

And based on their attitudes towards the Bible I see how different their responses are to the land.

Obviously God has timing in all this, and at times God allows bad leaders to rise to do things that work into His plans anyways while giving His people a needed wake up call.

Is that one of those times? Is Israel calling for a Saul to rule? Maybe.

Either way God is preparing the nation for the future, when they'll have to see that it is God and God alone who has their back, who protects Israel.

_______________

Salient facts:

The West Bank was Israel's heartland, settled by Jews and with towns that had Jews in them all down history. It was ceded to the new nation by right of the UN decision on the 1948 day of her birth, but snatched away by Jordan later that day. Israel took it back from Jordan 19 years later in 67 when Jordan AGAIN invaded while the UN stood by watching both times.

Unfortunately nobody cares to remember that Jordan evicted Jews who had LEGAL TITLE to land they'd bought and paid for or had been in the family for generations past (because JEWS have always had somewhat of a presence in Israel). Jordan destroyed their synagogues and took control of the holy sites such as the Tomb of the Patriarchs in Hebron where Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were buried with their wives, all except Rachel, whose tomb is in Bethlehem, as well as Shechem where Abraham built an altar and Joshua gathered all Israel between the Mountains of Gerazim and Ebal where the Jews recited the blessings and the curses of the Law. Joshua again calls them there to choose now whom you will serve. This city is now called Nablus, and it is a pivotal city in ancient Israel.

As the Jews began to trickle back home in the late 1800s to join the rag tag few that remained, the land began to bloom, and nearby Arabs from the surrounding nations began to make their way into Israel to take advantage of the newly opened job opportunities.

Then as Israel prospered and was about to become a nation in 1948, the Arabs were encouraged to rise up against them on the day of Independence in 1948. Israel heard of it, told them to stay peaceful, but that if they chose to fight they would never be welcomed back into Israel. Israel kept that promise, those who stayed peaceful, stayed in Israel to this day. Those who fought were defeated and driven out.

However the West Bank came into Jordan's possession. This area, of Judea and Samaria, the heartland of Israel was renamed, WEST BANK being that it was west of the Jordan River (which was the UN boundary of 1948). The Jews were expelled and their synagoges torn down.

Later when Israel took it back in 67 (when Jordan tried invading again) they LET THE INVAVDERS STAY and keep "their" property. The Israeli's left the mosques in place, and allowed a limited form of self government while allowing a few Jews back onto farmland they'd previously owned and occupied. The world calls them settlers and calls this an occupation. In fact it's the other way around. Israel kindly let their attackers remain on Jewish soil, and they repaid the kindness by demanding ALL of Israel as they like to chant "From the River (Jordan) to the Sea (the Med) "Palestine" will be free. Free of Jews that is. Whose land it is and always was.

Whether Jewish or Christian the attitude towards ISRAEL and her existence divides on the Bible.

Of course people today who neither believe the Bible nor the existence of God, don't have any reason to think the land belongs to Israel or the Jews. That is the UN and most of the world.

If a Jew reads and believes his Old Testament-- he is more likely to understand and respect that GOD gave that land to the Jews and be unwilling to give it up.

If a Jew is secular, non religious and doesn't read or believe the Old Testament (his Tanakh) then he is LESS likely to understand the connection of the Jews to the land of Israel both historically and present day.

AND SAD AS IT IS TODAY we have a similar divide in Christianity between those who believe the Bible promises to the Jews remain for the Jews, and those who think God is thru with the Jew and Christians inherit all the blessing promises (but they rarely claim the curses) that are due to the Jew. Dominionism, Reconstructionism, and Replacement Theology are gaining ground among todays churches. That is the default position among many denominations and making inroads in the remaining few that are dispensational believers in God's Word.

Lynn Hybels wife of Bill Hybels is big on Christ at the Crossroads which has sought to turn support from the Jews of Israel to the "Palestinians" of the West Bank as the rightful owners of the land. The Hybels are part of the whole Church growth movement and are closely aligned with the Emergent and the Purpose Driven movements within Christianity but especially Evangelical Christianity where their efforts are paying off. Those groups as a rule embrace the Palestinians and demand the Jews give up their land. The support for Israel is dropping.

But God blesses those who bless Israel and those who curse her or try to give her land away are CURSED! By GOD!

Few Christians are left who understand that if God won't keep his promise to the Jew, then why would He keep His promise to you. But in fact God promises HE IS NOT DONE with Israel.

This is what Jeremiah 31:35-36 says:
35 This is what the Lord says,

he who appoints the sun
to shine by day,
who decrees the moon and stars
to shine by night,
who stirs up the sea
so that its waves roar—
the Lord Almighty is his name:
36 “Only if these decrees vanish from my sight,”
declares the Lord,
“will Israel ever cease
being a nation before me.”
 
Last edited:

Andy C

Well-Known Member
So to summarize what could happen if the peace plan is revealed before the next round of elections-- I think Gantz might lose, and Netanyahu might win.
Excellent, excellent commentary on the crazy events, and what could happen. Maybe Trump knows this and wants to “aide” BiBi, and get the whole worlds focus back on what our President can do, and focus away from what the democrats wish he did.

Our state department needs you so you have to move here and become a citizen...
 

athenasius

Well-Known Member
I'm praying for your govt too, that they will see and understand what needs doing.

But honestly Andy, I can't see the plan coming out before the elections in Israel. I think God is keeping it back for a special occasion. I actually think that Gantz wins the next round, by a slim margin.

He creates a false peace much as Nevile Chamberlain did in Britain on the eve of WW2. Everyone gets happy, peace in our time. Yep cue the "Peace and Safety" favourite quote in prophecy circles.

But at some point God will allow the Iranians to attack thru their proxies. And looking at the passages to do with the destruction of Elam I see a close connection to Syria and the passages about the destruction of Damascus. They are linked in those passages to Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon, Syria and to some degree Turkey and possibly Russia.

It's purest speculation but I think it might mean we could see a limited regional war in which Syria attempts to take the Golan back, and Israel responds. Iran brings Lebanon and Syria into it, Jordan gets sucked in and somehow Egypt gets sucked in too. In the process Iran takes a serious beating in the area of Elam.

I got there by reading Jeremiah

but it's all over on this thread here: https://www.raptureforums.com/forums/threads/idf-chief-says-all-fronts-fragile-could-deteriorate-into-a-war.153572/#post-842883269

and I still think it's not so much a Ps 83 war as it is a Jeremiah 49 and Ez 32 war but that doesn't sound as tidy. And those passages include people groups that Ps 83 doesn't include so I'm not sure but I prefer to think of it more in the lines of a Damascus Event war that somehow ends up with Iran losing their nukes and possibly their leadership because by Ez 38 they aren't all ready to wipe Israel out, just steal anything that isn't nailed down.

And then there's YEMEN aka Sheba. Somehow they come back into line with Dedan or modern day Saudi Arabia. I could see that happening if Iran loses it's ability to control it's proxies in Yemen. It would fit with Lebanon getting hit hard as per these scriptures.

I spent a good while thinking about those scriptures. Still am.
 

athenasius

Well-Known Member
And to put it bluntly, the enemies of Israel won't attack if she has a strong leader. And strong friends.

The kind of direct attacks envisioned by Iran, Hezbollah of Lebanon, Syria and so on haven't happened under Netanyahu because he is a strong leader who regularly appears with Trump and Putin who are seen as the BIGGEST STRONGEST leaders in the world today. That is a signal EVERY Arab or Persian in the region can read perfectly. It's a cultural message.

All the enemies of Israel can do, is the kind of terrorism that Hamas, Fatah, Hezbollah use; tunnels, riots, burning kites, & launching rockets that occasionally land where they were aimed causing a bit of damage and irritating local Jewish communities that have to put up with it all. They murder at will, when they have opportunity, ditto kidnap people and murder them after making ransom demands. But not all out invasion.

What Gantz and the left fail to realize is that their enemies don't respect weakness or the rules at the UN or agreements they sign. And giving in by giving up land IS weakness. Oh they will smile and assure Gantz that they are happy to negotiate but a leader like Gantz is a signal to the Arabs and the Iranians that Israel is ripe for the taking.

So I think (speculating) that God will allow Gantz to win. By a small margin. Without the peace plan getting in the way.

This next bit is IF Gantz wins (If Bibi wins, it's a bit more time with a good leader)

IF Gantz wins for a period of time, all will be well while the Arabs and the Persians conspire. Gantz will pat himself on the back feeling vindicated that senior diplomatic leaders like he is, can bring about peace by being "reasonable" with the neighbors. He doesn't need any American peace plan, oh no, not him.

Netanyahu will have smoke coming out his ears and anyone in earshot will hear the truth. But I think Bibi is sidelined for a moment while God is preparing Israel to look weak.

Because no matter WHO is leader of Israel, no matter WHAT they do right or wrong, GOD has Israel's best interest at heart, and He will make sure that she will win any wars whether or not the IDF is ready or Gantz is a schmuck who lets his cellphone get hacked by Iran AND Russia, makes deals with Arab enemies or does other silly stuff.

God's plans rule.

And sooner or later those prophecies IF and only IF they pertain to today will be seen soon on the headline news.

And that is what I don't know and can't say, whether or not those scriptures are actually for this time period. I think they are. A lot of prophecy teachers think they are, but till we actually see Damascus completely burnt out overnight as Isaiah 17 and Jeremiah 49 said along with Amos 1 and Zech 9 none of us knows for sure. That is the thing about prophecy. You know it ahead, but only WHEN it happens can you see the literal fulfillment. There may be partial fulfillment in the past, pointing to the future which can be confusing too.

Just as God allowed Pharaoh to respond by hardening his heart, I think God is allowing Israel's neighbors to think that God has forgotten Israel, and that Israel is weak, ripe for the plucking. It's what is in their hearts.

I could see that happening as God allows the Israeli voters to vote as THEIR hearts lead too! As a lesson.

It will draw their enemies in to attack, and God will deal with them. As He said. Whether we are talking about Jeremiah 49, Isaiah 17, Ez 32 or Ez 38.
 
Last edited:
Top