The Third Trumpet and Wormwood

Butch

Butch

Well-Known Member
https://www.raptureforums.com/forums/threads/first-four-trumpets.149445/

Relating to my thoughts concerning the destruction of "the third part" during the first four trumpets being concentrated rather than cumulative, consider the third trumpet and Wormwood. The impact of Wormwood will be to just one side of the earth ("When the plain sense of Scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense..."). Which side we are not told. But, the impact wipes out a third of the fresh (unsalty) water reservoirs on Earth. This is a concentrated hit. With what is on our side of the earth representing exactly one-third of the fresh water supplies on Earth, I submit that a logical guess would be that it is with our side of the earth that Wormwood has an appointment.
 
Butch

Butch

Well-Known Member
What John saw, he described as "a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp..." Are you thinking that what John saw was something besides a falling star, or what we would refer to as a large meteor or asteroid?
 
Butch

Butch

Well-Known Member
If it is as I am thinking it may be (a total Western Hemisphere cataclysm), the following is one of my concerns...

Consider: Some who believe that the pre-trib view is wrong suggest that it is also dangerous, in that the Church, if it thinks that it won't be going through any of Daniel's 70 Week, will be unprepared, if it does. Whatever the case, this would only represent a temporal concern. But, if my conviction is right, a much more serious concern---an eternal one---would relate to the lost. For example, there seems to be a mentality in the United States that if a lot of people end up disappearing one day, it may be that the much talked about rapture has indeed occurred, and those who find themselves left behind will still have a chance to be saved, as long as they don't take the mark of the beast. However, the possibility of the United States being destroyed during the sounding of the first four trumpets suggests that this chance will be minimal, if even existent. As Paul told the Corinthians, "behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation (II Cor. 6:2b).
 
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InsuranceGuy

Well-Known Member
Butch said:
If it is as I am thinking it may be (a total Western Hemisphere cataclysm), the following is one of my concerns...

Consider: Some who believe that the pre-trib view is wrong suggest that it is also dangerous, in that the Church, if it thinks that it won't be going through any of Daniel's 70 Week, will be unprepared, if it does. Whatever the case, this would only represent a temporal concern. But, if my conviction is right, a much more serious concern---an eternal one---would relate to the lost. For example, there seems to be a mentality in the United States that if a lot of people end up disappearing one day, it may be that the much talked about rapture has indeed occurred, and those who find themselves left behind will still have a chance to be saved, as long as they don't take the mark of the beast. However, the possibility of the United States being destroyed during the sounding of the first four trumpets suggests that this chance will be minimal, if even existent. As Paul told the Corinthians, "behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation (II Cor. 6:2b).
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And this is the danger of not accepting Christ now and being prepared. People playing chicken with their Salvation will likely find themselves on the wrong side of the Pearly Gates. It will not be easy to gain & maintain salvation after the Rapture. The Holy Spirit will not be prodding these people as he does today. Also, will people who didn't accept Christ Pre-Rapture even understand what goes into gaining/maintaining your salvation without the gift being free? In this Age, we are covered by the blood of Jesus for sins not yet committed. Post-Rapture, this is no longer the case. I tend to believe the people coming to Christ after the Rapture will be those who are new to the faith and had not heard the message prior, or at least had little information concerning it. Those who have heard, yet chose not believe, will be part of the Great Deception. I may change that stance, as I'm prone to do, but it seems fitting. What is that old saying? Those waiting until Midnight to accept Christ sometimes die at 11:55? I forget how it goes, but it does ring true.
 
cavalier973

cavalier973

Well-Known Member
I speculate that Yellowstone finally blows, taking out most of the continental U.S.

Maybe a direct meteor hit is what instigates this.

Possibilities like this reveal the danger of the "Left Behind" series, as good as the books were in raising interest and awareness of the Pre-Trib Rapture.

Americans who read the books may have the idea that the world kind of just goes on, that the judgements will be slow and obvious, and that they will have time to "dodge the meteors".

Americans have possibly had the greatest opportunity of any group on Earth to hear and respond to the Gospel; the judgement on America, therefore, will likely be substantially more severe and rapid.
 
Butch

Butch

Well-Known Member
https://www.raptureforums.com/forums/threads/first-four-trumpets.149445/post-842797368

In my original thread relating to this, in the above post (if I've done this right!), I mentioned that the "great mountain burning with fire" that is "cast into the sea" (Rev. 8:8) could be a mountain range such as the Rockies, being hurled by a nuclear explosion into the Pacific Ocean. Speculation of course, but based upon possibilities connected with what John saw. It is interesting that the bulk of the United States' land based nuclear arsenals are said to be located in the states of Montana, Wyoming, and North Dakota. You mentioned Yellowstone. It is mostly in Wyoming, with some in Montana (and also Idaho). Kinda interesting to think about, huh? Also, according to my research, the three named arsenals are all located on the eastern side of the Rockies, which means, if these were triggered while still in their silos, the inclination would be to blow the Rockies westward, in the direction of the Pacific. Just kinda interesting. Have you thought about any of this while holding a globe in your hands?

Whatever thoughts we might have concerning how it could all happen, I certainly believe that it will all happen EXACTLY as the Bible accounts read. One thing is certain this side of what is to take place: It is not going to be a good thing to be left behind at the rapture. It is so troubling that some will not come to Christ, even when given an invitation like the following---"And the Spirit and the Bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely" (Rev. 22:17).
 
athenasius

athenasius

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Well if you take into account, the seal judgements leading up to the trumpet judgements will take some time, before this star Wormwood falling into the sea there are possibilities that people in the seal judgements will have a warning, in advance of the trumpet judgements.

A running chance so to speak to seek Christ and salvation.

I think you have a very interesting and plausible theory.

I do quibble a little about all people in John's day thinking the earth was flat. The Jews had a slightly different take, they did have things like Job's description of earth being suspended in space, hung there by God. The inscribed circle of the day night boundary is there too. And I think Pythagorus of the old Greek guys did something to figure out that the earth was a sphere and came close with his math, but I might be wrong.

The middle ages had several Jewish Bible scholars doing some fairly advanced math, in which one of them proposed something that we only got round to recently, which is one of the things in String Theory which I'm NOT conversant with, but it had to do with the number of dimensions that are rolled up or wrapped up within our own, but not visible to us. And the old guys got there thru their reading of the Bible. One of those little tidbits I've stored in my memory. Goodness knows where I found it possibly one of Chuck Missler's forays into the odd bits and bobs that relate to science and the Bible.

LOL -- the old Jewish scholars are talking string theory and multiple dimensions, while poor old Copernicus was being censured by the Catholic church for disputing that the earth revolved around the sun. The Catholic church had it as dogma that the sun revolved around the earth. Which was slightly better than the flat earth theory.

It's bedtime round here, gonna say goodnite, but due to family visiting I won't be back for a few days, so forgive my absence from this thread and any apparent silence. I'm not ignoring your fascinating idea.
 
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Butch

Butch

Well-Known Member
https://www.raptureforums.com/forums/threads/first-four-trumpets.149445/post-842797666

Concerning what I said in my First Four Trumpets thread reply about "the flat earth concept that people had back then," I was speaking in general terms in response to Mikedexion's statement that "everyone in John's day knew the earth was flat..." But, I am figuring that even Mike was probably speaking colloquially.

Concerning the Seals, with there being no indication of a time frame between the 6th Seal cataclysm and the "third part" being taken out (except the 30 minutes silence---Rev.8:1), I have felt that everything from the opening of the 6th Seal through the sounding of the 4th Trumpet COULD occur within the same month, week, OR EVEN DAY. This would mean an Earth-wide cataclysm closely coupled with a concentrated Western Hemisphere cataclysm. For the earth, this back to back scenario (kinda like "the SAME day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, AND the windows of heaven were opened" (Gen. 7:11) would in short order bring the focus back to bear upon Israel's side of the earth, with the other lands of the Bible days and Roman Empire.

athenasius, I appreciate your reply. You two look like a wonderful couple and you have a very good way with words :smile2
 
I

InsuranceGuy

Well-Known Member
A question I have often pondered is how bad will things get, in terms of earth changes, prior to the Rapture. It seems most of them are set for a Post-Rapture occurrence, but something has always pushed me in the direction that we will see some horrific things happen prior to the Rapture as a warning. That could simply be me thinking in an earthly sense though, but with all the recent natural disasters in the last 20 years, it seems possible.
 
SonSeeker

SonSeeker

Well-Known Member
Butch said:
This would mean an Earth-wide cataclysm closely coupled with a concentrated Western Hemisphere cataclysm.
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Butch said:
I mentioned that the "great mountain burning with fire" that is "cast into the sea" (Rev. 8:8) could be a mountain range such as the Rockies, being hurled by a nuclear explosion into the Pacific Ocean. Speculation of course, but based upon possibilities connected with what John saw. It is interesting that the bulk of the United States' land based nuclear arsenals are said to be located in the states of Montana, Wyoming, and North Dakota.
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Interesting speculation. The "concentrated Western Hemisphere cataclysm", could also entail the Big One on our west coast. The "great mountain burning with fire" that is "cast into the sea", could be referring to Mt. Whitney, the highest peak in the Lower 48. Only God knows. A major quake on the West Coast could set off numerous volcanic eruptions up and down the coast, as all of the major mountain peaks from Mt. Baker down to Mt. Shasta are former volcanoes. Throw Yellowstone into the mix, and a wind from out of the west, and the USA would be toast!
Anyone else besides me, praying for the Rapture to occur before all this happens?
 
Butch

Butch

Well-Known Member
SonSeeker said:
Interesting speculation. The "concentrated Western Hemisphere cataclysm", could also entail the Big One on our west coast. The "great mountain burning with fire" that is "cast into the sea", could be referring to Mt. Whitney, the highest peak in the Lower 48. Only God knows. A major quake on the West Coast could set off numerous volcanic eruptions up and down the coast, as all of the major mountain peaks from Mt. Baker down to Mt. Shasta are former volcanoes. Throw Yellowstone into the mix, and a wind from out of the west, and the USA would be toast!
Anyone else besides me, praying for the Rapture to occur before all this happens?
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Talking about the Big One, for those of us around my neck of the woods, the New Madrid Fault is the Big One. They was sure it was on the verge of slipping again a few years back, but it remained quiet. It is notorious for forming Reelfoot Lake and causing the Mississippi to run backwards for several hours. I can imagine the pressure building there though, as with all the fault areas that have been on the quieter side. Building, building, building, awaiting our hemisphere's appointment with, hmmm, Wormwood perhaps? Who knows, it may slip before I finish this post. Who knows, we might be ushered safely to glory before I fin

P.S. Isn't it exciting to think about what we might be in the middle of doing when the trumpet sounds!
 
Butch

Butch

Well-Known Member
I noticed that in my #9 post, I failed to mention that the "great mountain burning with fire" (Rev. 8:8) that is "cast into the sea" would also be a concentrated cataclysm, in that it would not be hitting both sides of the earth. Of course, Wormwood could be slated for one side of the earth and this mountain slated for the other side. I think any "brainstorming" solutions that will align with Scripture are worthy of our serious consideration. I've just never seen the concentrated versus cumulative solution considered, and have yet to find evidence of anyone else's past consideration of it.
 
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