The Precedents for the Rapture

Wings Like Eagles

Well-Known Member
The reason why many call the Rapture, the "Secret Rapture" is that it is boldly spoken of by only one Apostle--the Apostle Paul. But there are hints of the Rapture--both by historical precedent, throughout the history of redemption, and by New Testament biblical writings. Some scholars argue that a Rapture of the Church will be forthcoming "suddenly" (the Greek is indeterminate and can mean "suddenly" as well as "soon). And it warns the seven churches of the Book of Revelation to be ready--as the Lord Himself warned His followers.

There are even hints in the Old Testament--Enoch "walked with God" and apparently God took him prior to the Flood judgment that He brought on the thoroughly wicked inhabitants of the Earth. Noah "a preacher of righteousness" and his family escaped certain death via the Ark--they were brought through the Flood miraculously. Lot and his daughters escaped the wrath God brought on the depraved Sodom and Gomorrah. The early Church in Jerusalem, escaped almost certain death through a series of events that led the Jerusalem believers to flee to Pella, in what is modern-day Jordan. Interestingly, Israeli Messianic believers in Jesus, believe that they will be under the Lord's protection, as they obediently flee to Jordan (to Petra). He warned them that they would need to do so in the time of the End. All of this leads to the conclusion that God's children will be removed to a place of safety prior to His coming judgment. The Church will be taken to the New Jerusalem prior the judgment on those who belong to this world and believing Israel will be sheltered throughout the judgments of the Tribulation in a place of safety. They will emerge to claim the Kingdom promised to them--from where they will rule the earth for 1,000 years of peace, joy and righteousness, while the Church enjoys the heavenly bliss of resurrected life in the New Jerusalem with their Saviour. Amen?
 

Andy C

Well-Known Member
The Church will be taken to the New Jerusalem prior the judgment on those who belong to this world and believing Israel will be sheltered throughout the judgments of the Tribulation in a place of safety. They will emerge to claim the Kingdom promised to them--from where they will rule the earth for 1,000 years of peace, joy and righteousness, while the Church enjoys the heavenly bliss of resurrected life in the New Jerusalem with their Saviour. Amen?
Israel will not flee to the sheltered place (most likely Petra) until the middle of the 7 year tribulation. Before this many will die in first 2 sets of judgements.

Thankfully, many gentile believers as well as Jews will survive the tribulation and enter the he MK.
 

Wings Like Eagles

Well-Known Member
Israel will not flee to the sheltered place (most likely Petra) until the middle of the 7 year tribulation. Before this many will die in first 2 sets of judgements.

Thankfully, many gentile believers as well as Jews will survive the tribulation and enter the he MK.
Yes--I realized my mistake too late to change it. I agree with you that those "left behind" will go through the first two sets of judgments even though it will be desperately awful as they are hunted and martyred by the Antichrist and his people.
 

Salluz

Aspiring Man of God
I heard an interesting comment (Sadly I forget from whom) that one of the reasons both Enoch and Elijah were taken to be with God without experiencing death was to establish the concept of the rapture by the testimony of two witnesses. The methods differed a bit, but it still stands that neither experienced death. The way God will take us to be with Him differs from both (Enoch simply vanished, Elijah went in a chariot of fire, we will meet Jesus in the air), but we have it on good testimony that it is possible to be with God without dying first.

I wonder what it will feel like to go from being mortal to immortal in the twinkling of an eye
 

kathymendel

Well-Known Member
Waaaaaaaaaaay beyond anything humans have EVER felt..........
More wonderful than any words could describe..........
And, to think, we will enjoy it forever and forever........... eternity..........
Thank you, Father, for your faithful promise to us that we will experience it all.
 

daygo

Well-Known Member
I heard an interesting comment (Sadly I forget from whom) that one of the reasons both Enoch and Elijah were taken to be with God without experiencing death was to establish the concept of the rapture by the testimony of two witnesses. The methods differed a bit, but it still stands that neither experienced death. The way God will take us to be with Him differs from both (Enoch simply vanished, Elijah went in a chariot of fire, we will meet Jesus in the air), but we have it on good testimony that it is possible to be with God without dying first.

I wonder what it will feel like to go from being mortal to immortal in the twinkling of an eye
Interesting thought, imo only I suppose but I can't see God taking Enoch without allowing him to say goodbye to his family and any friends.
 

Wings Like Eagles

Well-Known Member
Also, the Jews will not rule the earth in the millenium.......... we are told in scripture that Christ will reign over the world with a rod of iron, I believe.
The promises of ruling a Kingdom have not yet been fulfilled for believing Israel. Israel is much more than the Jews (and Jesus told us that some who say they are Jews are not even Jews--but rather, a "synagogue of Satan" in the letter to the church in Smyrna in Revelation 2). The Apostle Paul also speaks of those who say they are Jews but are not, in Romans 9. He tells us that a true Jew is one by faith, not by the Law.

The Old Testament prophecies must and will be fulfilled. God said that He would raise David to be their King and one can know that it is a mortal Kingdom because the "Prince" spoken of in the Book of Ezekiel is clearly mortal. Christ is the "King of Kings" but that doesn't mean that He must be here on earth to exercise His authority--which will, no doubt, be the rule of God's law throughout the earth --and not only the embrace of the law but of faith. Isaiah tells us that the Kingdom will consist of those who know the Lord. It will be a time of peace and righteousness until the very end, when Satan is loosed to inspire the final rebellion of mankind.

That does not mean that Christ/Messiah cannot come to earth--it just seems that He will rule from heaven over the "kings of the earth". It is my belief that He will be there, in the New Jerusalem with the Church, His Bride. The New Jerusalem doesn't come to earth until the final rebellion is judged, at the end of the Millennial Kingdom. If this is not so, the Book of Ezekiel makes no sense.
 

TheRedeemed

Well-Known Member
I heard an interesting comment (Sadly I forget from whom) that one of the reasons both Enoch and Elijah were taken to be with God without experiencing death was to establish the concept of the rapture by the testimony of two witnesses. The methods differed a bit, but it still stands that neither experienced death. The way God will take us to be with Him differs from both (Enoch simply vanished, Elijah went in a chariot of fire, we will meet Jesus in the air), but we have it on good testimony that it is possible to be with God without dying first.

I wonder what it will feel like to go from being mortal to immortal in the twinkling of an eye
I also think this makes them the two witnesses as it's also written that it is appointed unto men to die once then the judgment.

Since neither Enoch nor Elijiah have died, but the two witnesses do, this makes them both likely to be the two witnesses during the tribulation.

JMHO of course, some may have other ideas about who the two witnesses are though, but it's not something we, The Church, need to be concerned about.
 

kathymendel

Well-Known Member
Waaaaaaaaaaay beyond anything humans have EVER felt..........
More wonderful than any words could describe..........
And, to think, we will enjoy it forever and forever........... eternity..........
Thank you, Father, for your faithful promise to us that we will experience it all.
I also think this makes them the two witnesses as it's also written that it is appointed unto men to die once then the judgment.

Since neither Enoch nor Elijiah have died, but the two witnesses do, this makes them both likely to be the two witnesses during the tribulation.

JMHO of course, some may have other ideas about who the two witnesses are though, but it's not something we, The Church, need to be concerned about.
I am thinking the same thing, TheRedeemed. It makes sense to me. They were two living witnesses in the old testament, but will also be the two
witnesses in the new, during the trib............and, then they will die that one death.

Daygo, why do you question God's not letting Enoch say goodbye to his family? When we are raptured, we will not be saying goodbye to our
families...........it is instantaneous. Even when some of the chosen disciples wanted to return to say goodbye to their families before following Jesus, he
told them to "let the dead bury the dead"............ to just follow Him now.
 

Tall Timbers

Imperfect but forgiven
I also think this makes them the two witnesses as it's also written that it is appointed unto men to die once then the judgment.

If man being appointed to die once was a hard and fast rule, there would be no rapture. Given that there will be a rapture and all of those Believers living at the time of the rapture will escape death, I don't believe the rapture of Elijah and Enoch contributes to the possibility of their being the two witnesses. Just my humble opinion.
 

Wings Like Eagles

Well-Known Member
Waaaaaaaaaaay beyond anything humans have EVER felt..........
More wonderful than any words could describe..........
And, to think, we will enjoy it forever and forever........... eternity..........
Thank you, Father, for your faithful promise to us that we will experience it all.

I am thinking the same thing, TheRedeemed. It makes sense to me. They were two living witnesses in the old testament, but will also be the two witnesses in the new, during the trib............and, then they will die that one death.
And be resurrected. I have often thought that, not only would the Two Witnesses be resurrected as the world watched, but that the Tribulation martyrs would be resurrected, at the same time. What do all of you think?
 

Wings Like Eagles

Well-Known Member
Doesn't make sense with would God not do right as per Abraham saying in genesis, just my thinking can be wrong.
Christians die all the time without being able to say goodbye to their families (those who die in a car accident, die during surgery, etc.). Many early Christian martyrs likely died without saying goodbye to their families as well. If the families are believers--we will all meet and be with each other in the New Jerusalem for eternity. Our families are just meant to be temporary comforts to us here on earth ("it is not good for man to be alone"). What matters is being in heaven with our Lord first and then our families and friends second. Just sayin' :)
 

Wings Like Eagles

Well-Known Member
If man being appointed to die once was a hard and fast rule, there would be no rapture. Given that there will be a rapture and all of those Believers living at the time of the rapture will escape death, I don't believe the rapture of Elijah and Enoch contributes to the possibility of their being the two witnesses. Just my humble opinion.
There is also the matter of Lazarus. The Lord said quite definitely that "Lazarus is dead" to His disciples. Yet, since he is not with us today, we know that he died again.
 
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