The Lord's Prayer

DWB

DWB

Well-Known Member
I have recently started attending a local Church of Christ after years in the Episcopal and Methodist churches. Other than the no musical instruments I don't see that much difference in services. One thing that did stick out was that the Lord's Prayer was never recited or mentioned. Same with either of the creeds. So, I asked a member and was told the reason for not reciting the Lord's Prayer was that we are currently in the Kingdom so there was no need for that prayer any longer.

Another doctrine issue is an almost fanatical obsession with total immersion Baptism. Almost to the point that the act of Baptism is more important than faith. I have always thought faith was the number one requirement with Baptism being more of a profession of that faith.

My Biblical interpretations have always been the Kingdom comes after the rapture and Second Coming when Christ sets up His 1000-year Kingdom. I really like the people and message, but feel I am not learning or growing spiritually. Really, it's like I'm going backwards. I would appreciate any comments from other members.
 
Jesus himself taught us that “Lord’s prayer” by one of his audience request on how to pray. No where in scriptures tell us that we don’t need to recite that prayer. The possibility why those that told you that “Lord’s prayer” is not needed anymore because once Jesus went up to the cross, forgave us all of sin and declared “It is finished” then that prayer no longer needed. I disagreed. From personal experience when I first turned to God’s beloved Son Jesus I started with Lord’s prayer, memorized it and recite it daily. Not so long, being a baby in Christ, I felt a prompt from Him that reciting a prayer does not get His attention but He led me to start talking to Him instead. I was nervous know He is Holy and afraid to say anything else than Lord’s prayer so I ended up talking to Him through wisdom, understanding and knowledge of Lord’s prayer. My relationship with Him grew steadfastly. Eventually whatever I learned, still learning as always, from God’s Word I talk to Him in prayers on what I learned from Him. No one can increase you in His Word but Him alone.

“Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom you believed, even as the Lord gave to each one? I have planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the increase.So then neither is he who plants nor he who waters anything, but God who gives the increase. Now he who plants and he who waters are one, and each one will receive his own reward according to his own labor. For we are laborers together with God: You are God’s vineyard; you are God’s building.” 1 Corinthians 3:5-9 MEV

Hope that helped a bit.
 
DWB said:
I have recently started attending a local Church of Christ after years in the Episcopal and Methodist churches. Other than the no musical instruments I don't see that much difference in services. One thing that did stick out was that the Lord's Prayer was never recited or mentioned. Same with either of the creeds. So, I asked a member and was told the reason for not reciting the Lord's Prayer was that we are currently in the Kingdom so there was no need for that prayer any longer.

Another doctrine issue is an almost fanatical obsession with total immersion Baptism. Almost to the point that the act of Baptism is more important than faith. I have always thought faith was the number one requirement with Baptism being more of a profession of that faith.

My Biblical interpretations have always been the Kingdom comes after the rapture and Second Coming when Christ sets up His 1000-year Kingdom. I really like the people and message, but feel I am not learning or growing spiritually. Really, it's like I'm going backwards. I would appreciate any comments from other members.
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It is also my understanding that the "Kingdom" will start in the 1000 year time period after his Second Coming. These people sound like they believe in the "Kingdom Now" also known as "Dominion" theology. You can "Google" the terms and see what their main beliefs are and if they match up with what they are telling you. They do not believe in the Rapture since they believe that the church will basically purge the earth of evil prior to Christ's Second coming.

As for the obsession with baptism I would say this is a red flag. In John 6: 28-29 it states: "Then they inquired, “What must we do to perform the works of God?” Jesus replied, “The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent.” I would also point to the entire book of Hebrews where Paul is making the point that even the Old Testament patriarchs had FAITH. Paul says in Ephesians 2: 8-9 "For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast. One good question to ask yourself if you were in a hospital and had a "deathbed conversion" right before you died and were unable to be baptized do you really think it would matter? Baptism is not a requirement to be saved.

My two cents for what it's worth.
 
Jaybird said:
It is also my understanding that the "Kingdom" will start in the 1000 year time period after his Second Coming. These people sound like they believe in the "Kingdom Now" also known as "Dominion" theology. You can "Google" the terms and see what their main beliefs are and if they match up with what they are telling you. They do not believe in the Rapture since they believe that the church will basically purge the earth of evil prior to Christ's Second coming.

As for the obsession with baptism I would say this is a red flag. In John 6: 28-29 it states: "Then they inquired, “What must we do to perform the works of God?” Jesus replied, “The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent.” I would also point to the entire book of Hebrews where Paul is making the point that even the Old Testament patriarchs had FAITH. Paul says in Ephesians 2: 8-9 "For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast. One good question to ask yourself if you were in a hospital and had a "deathbed conversion" right before you died and were unable to be baptized do you really think it would matter? Baptism is not a requirement to be saved.

My two cents for what it's worth.
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My thought exactly. I'm trying to find a permanent church home and I really like this church; it's very close to home, several neighbors attend, met several very nice families. I'm trying to decide if these differences are worth changing church homes again. My thinking is that if long as the gospel is preached, do these differences make it a deal breaker. As long as the focus is on the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ maybe I should live with the other differences. I don't have to change my views on end time events.
 
DWB said:
I have recently started attending a local Church of Christ after years in the Episcopal and Methodist churches. Other than the no musical instruments I don't see that much difference in services. One thing that did stick out was that the Lord's Prayer was never recited or mentioned. Same with either of the creeds. So, I asked a member and was told the reason for not reciting the Lord's Prayer was that we are currently in the Kingdom so there was no need for that prayer any longer.

Another doctrine issue is an almost fanatical obsession with total immersion Baptism. Almost to the point that the act of Baptism is more important than faith. I have always thought faith was the number one requirement with Baptism being more of a profession of that faith.

My Biblical interpretations have always been the Kingdom comes after the rapture and Second Coming when Christ sets up His 1000-year Kingdom. I really like the people and message, but feel I am not learning or growing spiritually. Really, it's like I'm going backwards. I would appreciate any comments from other members.
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I have my alarm set for 6:00 am, noon, 3:00 pm and 8:00 pm. I say prayers patterned after the Lord's prayer. It's an act of obedience to me. Also I think, when the alarm goes off, What if that was the Rapture? What would it catch me doing?
 
Roads Scholar said:
I have my alarm set for 6:00 am, noon, 3:00 pm and 8:00 pm. I say prayers patterned after the Lord's prayer. It's an act of obedience to me. Also I think, when the alarm goes off, What if that was the Rapture? What would it catch me doing?
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Also, the thing I like about the Church of Christ is that they partake of Communion every Sunday. More obedience.
 
If my memory serves me correctly, Church of Christ are Amillennial as far as End Times are concerned.
 
DWB said:
My thought exactly. I'm trying to find a permanent church home and I really like this church; it's very close to home, several neighbors attend, met several very nice families. I'm trying to decide if these differences are worth changing church homes again. My thinking is that if long as the gospel is preached, do these differences make it a deal breaker. As long as the focus is on the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ maybe I should live with the other differences. I don't have to change my views on end time events.
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Agree, most of churches in UK are amilleniel as far as I know. Probably why there's no teaching on bible prophecy.
 
I went to a church of Christ they asked me which I believed, was I saved before or after I was baptized, I said before, they said I was wrong, I wasn't saved till after the baptism, apparently, they believe salvation doesn't kick in till after baptism.
 
Tasman said:
If my memory serves me correctly, Church of Christ are Amillennial as far as End Times are concerned.
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Oh yes the one I went to was during the release of the left behind series. His glorious appearring was coming out at that time I was in the middle of reading it then the preacher preached on it and said this is not going to happen nowhere in the Bible did it say that Jesus is going to set foot on the Mount of Olives and rule the world from Jerusalem for a thousand years nowhere in the New testament does it say that, he went on to say that someone of his congregation argued with him about it and he said show me where it says that and he could not find it anywhere, well at the time I didn't know about Zachariah 14 and apparently the Church of Christ doesn't really think much of the Old testament because Zachariah 14 clearly states that he will step foot on the Mount of Olives and it will split down the middle and everything else about it but apparently the Church of Christ doesn't believe any of that because the preacher preached that it wasn't going to happen that day, yeah I've had my experience with the Church of Christ.
 
katt said:
I went to a church of Christ they asked me which I believed, was I saved before or after I was baptized, I said before, they said I was wrong, I wasn't saved till after the baptism, apparently, they believe salvation doesn't kick in till after baptism.
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When did the thief on the cross next to Jesus get baptized?
 
Tink said:
When did the thief on the cross next to Jesus get baptized?
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My Question has always been, if Paul had died before he was baptized where would he be now? But I thought that question would cause the preacher to see me as a trouble maker. I was much younger then, now days? I'd ask in a heartbeat. But I saw he and the elders were adamant on the subject and there was no changing their minds. So, I dropped it.
 
Tink said:
When did the thief on the cross next to Jesus get baptized?
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When did the people in the Hall of Faith, Hebrews Chapter 11, get baptized? They were not baptized, their faith in the coming Redeemer was counted to them as righteousness.

The book of Job is thought to have been written before Moses wrote the Pentateuch.

Job 19:25-26 says
I know that my redeemer lives, and that in the end he will stand on the earth.; And after my skin has been destroyed, yet in my flesh I will see God;

Job was not Jewish, he was a Gentile. There were no Jews in the time of Job. Yet Job had faith in the coming Redeemer and his faith saved him.

Salvation has always been By Grace Alone, Through Faith Alone, In Christ Alone.
 
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