The Hard Truth

GotGrace

Well-Known Member
The Hard Truth
By Steve Schmutzer

I have little idea where this post is going to go. I guess I’m partly writing it as a personal catharsis, and so I advise you – I’m not feeling warm and fuzzy.

I’m not a gambler, but if you asked me to pick up the dice and roll ’em, I’m going to tell you America is done. No single issue prompts me to say that, but rather many of them.

America is hurtling down a steep one-way road with no U-Turn on the map. It is experiencing a comprehensive and catastrophic moral collapse. Read Romans 1:18-32. It’s basically today’s news, and it makes one point clear: America is so far gone that it’s already experiencing the wrath of God. It is done.

I don’t see any valid “if’s” on this issue anymore. The most qualified questions are those that responsibly weigh the “when’s” and “how’s.” America is now marinated in lies and depravities of the sort that – not long ago – used to cower in the closet and carefully pick their disguises before daring to crack the door.

Not anymore.

Patently obvious deceptions now proudly parade in the public forums. Intentional fraud is welcomed at every level of our governing structures. Myriad efforts are being expended to ruin anyone or anything that speaks the truth or shows the facts. Many millions of dollars are spent on marketing, policy, and PR campaigns to advance exactly the sort of corruption, evil, injustice, and debauchery that God routinely – and forcefully! – judged in the Scriptures.

We live in a time where the agendas of depopulation, immorality, lawlessness, intolerance, and tyranny are celebrated – while efforts to support virtue, common sense, law and order, free speech, and personal responsibility are ridiculed. Children have become a key target in all of this. They are the victims of every vile form of wickedness imaginable, and legislation is even being proposed to legitimize these evils.

This nation’s descent is breathtaking to see. We’re rocketing so quickly into a sticky morass of wickedness that you can almost hear the sonic boom.

It doesn’t help that so much of our nation’s population is woefully uninformed – – and it helps even less that they choose to stay that way. There is a vast swath of our society that refuses to spend one calorie of energy to study the truth and confront their ignorance. It’s so much easier for them to attack the facts instead.

It’s that ‘safety in numbers’ thing that seduces them to float downstream with the dead fish – – to hurl themselves off the cliff with the rest of the ignorant lemmings.

But the gravity of this situation is so in-your-face that it’s now impossible to overlook. One must WANT to not see it for what it really is.

Honestly, I expect this sort of foolishness from those who have rejected God. Romans 1:28 makes the case that those who have done this end up with minds that don’t work like they’re supposed to. They’re as dumb as a frying pan. There’s a direct connection between their consecutive choices and their constant idiocy.

So again – I expect such darkened people to do precisely what they’re not supposed to do. I expect them to reject common sense laws and values that find their source in God’s divinely inspired Word. I expect this from the masses that want nothing to do with a right relationship with Jesus Christ. Their whole motive is to energetically go in the opposite direction instead – no matter the consequences to themselves or to others, or their self-evident displays of ridiculousness.

Perhaps that’s why this entire situation gives me another very specific discomfiture. Maybe it’s why I’m saying all these things in the first place – because the bigger picture is even worse.

You see, this whole problem extends well beyond that group we typically expect to applaud fraudulent elections, promote fabricated ‘science,’ or support foolish laws. This problem is much bigger than the bunch who cuts off their genitals, wears masks while driving alone, waves rainbow flags, conceals their violence under black hoodies, touts BLM, or sets up filthy communes in public places.

Here’s the hard truth. There are plenty in the church who have already made it clear they identify more with the postures of those who show they have rejected God than they do with anyone who diligently seeks to be in a right relationship with Jesus Christ.

I’ve heard pastors foolishly claim wearing a mask is a sign of worship. I’ve heard other pastors chide their congregants for wanting secure borders, for supporting responsible conservative values, and for not accepting plainly fraudulent ‘medical science.’ I’ve had conversations with church leaders who vigorously support the ‘Palestinian cause’ and a ‘two-state solution’ over all clear Biblical instructions to the contrary.

I’m just scratching the surface of all the ways I’ve seen church leaders lose their moorings.

Furthermore, there is no shortage of “Christians” who march for BLM, advocate for LGBTQ lifestyles, embrace gender rebranding, and promote the fallacy of climate change which lies at the heart of globalism. All of this shows glaring faults in the integrity of their faith since this bunch are “Christians” who also pick their way through the Scriptures like they are at a buffet – – ignoring what they don’t like and overindulging in what they most want.

That’s the part that gnaws at me and causes me no end of frustration. The truth is there for them to know it, but so many within the church are woefully uninformed – – and they choose to stay that way. There is a large proportion of “Christians” that refuse to spend one calorie of energy to study the full counsel of God’s Word, to humbly yield to its instructions, and to confront their ignorance. It’s so much easier for them to run with the packs that believe as they do and attack the truth instead.

The standard pew-warmer today desperately needs a carnivore diet (1 Cor. 3:2), but as Paul lamented, many of them can’t handle it. Just as Paul recognized young believers needed “milk” instead, so I think he would chastise those churchgoers today who have obstinately remained content with a lactose diet. Hebrews 5:12 states we should be striving for “solid food,” but most “Christians” and their leadership would much rather sip their doctrines through a straw.

A leading giveaway of such “Christians” is their inability to perceive the present times for what is really happening and for what they really mean. If we take 2 Timothy 4:3 at face value – and I do! – then it’s less of an ‘inability’ than it is a ‘refusal.’

This passage makes it clear such “Christians” will not tolerate hearing the things from God’s Word that they MOST need to hear. They will consciously embrace the “fables” instead that are the values and choices of this world.

They do this by “gathering around them teachers to suit their own passions.” That means such “Christians” will openly support pastors, teachers, and other church leaders who show they are not yielded to the full counsel of Scripture, and who evidence by the things they say that they have dangerously “conformed to this world” (Romans 12:2). It also means such “Christians” will isolate and berate any other pastors, teachers, and other church leaders who call their choices into proper Biblical accountability.

Churches and “Christians” who behave in this manner are living proof that we are indeed in the last days. The Bible calls these folk “scoffers” in 2 Peter 3:3. This bunch is noted for ridiculing the things of God they want no part of, for denying the truth of Scripture when it confronts their choices, for following their own evil desires over the clear counsel of God’s Word, and for mocking those who wait for, long for, and earnestly study the issues around the Second Coming of Jesus Christ.

Jude goes one step further in Jude 1:18. He makes it clear that churches and fellowships will greatly suffer under the influence of these kinds of scoffers because they create division and introduce erosion. They may imagine themselves to be church leaders, they may imagine they are giving priority to the things they ought to be giving it to – – but Jude adds, “they do not have the Spirit” in vs. 19.

The surge of scoffers in the church today is a clear Biblical sign that we are in the last days. While there are many outside the church that plainly want nothing to do with the truth, there are many inside the church that are the same way.

I’ve come full circle to my opening comments. The prognosis for this nation is not good. You may choose to disagree with me on that – – but I urge you to “be as the Bereans” (Acts 17:11) and examine the Scriptures for yourself. This exercise will clarify all current events through the wisdom of God’s Word.

I believe – if you do – you will ultimately be prompted to say with a new hope, just as Paul did in 1 Corinthians 16:22, “Maranatha” (“Come, Lord Jesus”).

https://www.raptureforums.com/end-times/the-hard-truth/
This nation’s descent is breathtaking to see. We’re rocketing so quickly into a sticky morass of wickedness that you can almost hear the sonic boom.

A leading giveaway of such “Christians” is their inability to perceive the present times for what is really happening and for what they really mean. If we take 2 Timothy 4:3 at face value – and I do! – then it’s less of an ‘inability’ than it is a ‘refusal.

I see clearly the two statements above that I’ve have copied from the writer. I’m just dumbfounded at people who act like nothing is going on “it’s business as usual so let’s keep going as always.”

I feel like I’ve already grieved the loss of this great nation. The powers that be just keep working at destroying it with a battering ram of their ideologies.

The wrath of God will be the when the judgements begin with the seals.
 

ItIsFinished!

Blood bought child of the King of kings.
I for one believe we have a bit farther to go in our decline as a society (to include other parts of the world) and I think God is being quite remarkably patient and sparing in the collective moral decline.
Hopefully not much further of a decline.

70,000,000 babies murdered.
The biggest producer of pornography .
Homosexual revolution.
Same sex marriage.
Draq Queens reading devil's literature to children.
Majority of the churches asleep.
Cities becoming cesspools.
Out of control drug problem.
Major alcohol abuse and addiction.
First ammendment under attack.
Second ammendment under attack.
Supreme court justice cannot define a woman.
Multiple genders .
Child mutilation.
Insane political corruption.
Brazen crimes.
Human trafficking.

This is just America. Although alot on that list could be applicable to many countries.

There is much more that can be added to the list.
How much more depravity is needed?
How much more time?

It isn't that God is remarkably patient, He is
wonderfully gracious and merciful.
 

lightofmylife

Blessed Hope-Prepare To Fly!
Hopefully not much further of a decline.

70,000,000 babies murdered.
The biggest producer of pornography .
Homosexual revolution.
Same sex marriage.
Draq Queens reading devil's literature to children.
Majority of the churches asleep.
Cities becoming cesspools.
Out of control drug problem.
Major alcohol abuse and addiction.
First ammendment under attack.
Second ammendment under attack.
Supreme court justice cannot define a woman.
Multiple genders .
Child mutilation.
Insane political corruption.
Brazen crimes.
Human trafficking.

This is just America. Although alot on that list could be applicable to many countries.

There is much more that can be added to the list.
How much more depravity is needed?
How much more time?

It isn't that God is remarkably patient, He is
wonderfully gracious and merciful.
Excellent :thumbup :thumbupanswers of hard :tappingfoot truth about the time we live in. Hopefully, we about to go home. :rapture
 

GHoe

Well-Known Member
Hopefully not much further of a decline.

70,000,000 babies murdered.
The biggest producer of pornography .
Homosexual revolution.
Same sex marriage.
Draq Queens reading devil's literature to children.
Majority of the churches asleep.
Cities becoming cesspools.
Out of control drug problem.
Major alcohol abuse and addiction.
First ammendment under attack.
Second ammendment under attack.
Supreme court justice cannot define a woman.
Multiple genders .
Child mutilation.
Insane political corruption.
Brazen crimes.
Human trafficking.

This is just America. Although alot on that list could be applicable to many countries.

There is much more that can be added to the list.
How much more depravity is needed?
How much more time?

It isn't that God is remarkably patient, He is
wonderfully gracious and merciful.
I hear ya.

The only answers / consolations I have for how much more depravity is needed ? and how much more time is necessary ? are the following verses. When I meditate on these verses, I have a hard time asking how much more God will allow or why he allows what I can't understand. He is sovereign and His will and His Love is perfect, that's all I can say and for me, all I need to know.

2 Peter 3:9,
"The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance."

And

Isaiah 55:8-9,
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the Lord.
“As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.
 

ItIsFinished!

Blood bought child of the King of kings.
I hear ya.

The only answers / consolations I have for how much more depravity is needed ? and how much more time is necessary ? are the following verses. When I meditate on these verses, I have a hard time asking how much more God will allow or why he allows what I can't understand.

2 Peter 3:9,
"The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance."

And

Isaiah 55:8-9,
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the Lord.
“As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.
Right.
I personally don't question God about these matters , however I do question man on their thoughts about the matter.

I love those verses .
Especially,

Second Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his
promise , as some men count slackness ; but
is longsuffering to us-ward , not willing that
any should perish , but that all should come
to repentance.

Calvinist probably don't address that verse to often.

All glory to God for His longsuffering !!!
✝️
 

heisable2

Well-Known Member
The bad things happening in America isn't God's
wrath.
It is sins natural collective course of consequences.
What is an example of God's wrath? What should we be looking for here. Should we blame it all on the consequence of sin? Satan is a big factor in this and he certainly missing things up big time. But the worst is still yet to come.

So does God's wrath only happen in the tribulation?

I really enjoyed the first article with lots of thought given to how it was worded and using God's word as proof

Thank God we can freely speak about how we feel and all of us may not agree with each other and that's okay.

But we all can agree on is the time is short. Eventually there's going to be one last soul to be saved and then up we go. So let's not waste any time. We can agree to disagree, but I do think that America is going downhill.
 

lightofmylife

Blessed Hope-Prepare To Fly!
What is an example of God's wrath? What should we be looking for here. Should we blame it all on the consequence of sin? Satan is a big factor in this and he certainly missing things up big time. But the worst is still yet to come.

So does God's wrath only happen in the tribulation?

I really enjoyed the first article with lots of thought given to how it was worded and using God's word as proof

Thank God we can freely speak about how we feel and all of us may not agree with each other and that's okay.

But we all can agree on is the time is short. Eventually there's going to be one last soul to be saved and then up we go. So let's not waste any time. We can agree to disagree, but I do think that America is going downhill.
Scripture :bible says it is going to get worse and worse people deceiving and being deceived. Everything is falling into place as The :biblesays it will. For Christians we are going :rapture home, and I :prayfor many more salvations.
 
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ItIsFinished!

Blood bought child of the King of kings.
What is an example of God's wrath? What should we be looking for here. Should we blame it all on the consequence of sin? Satan is a big factor in this and he certainly missing things up big time. But the worst is still yet to come.

So does God's wrath only happen in the tribulation?

I really enjoyed the first article with lots of thought given to how it was worded and using God's word as proof

Thank God we can freely speak about how we feel and all of us may not agree with each other and that's okay.

But we all can agree on is the time is short. Eventually there's going to be one last soul to be saved and then up we go. So let's not waste any time. We can agree to disagree, but I do think that America is going downhill.
America going downhill has nothing to do with the wrath of God.
It is because of sin this country is suffering.
Almost everything wrong with this country and abroad is because of sin.
God's blessings will be withheld ( example: he will not bless same sex marriage ).
God WILL NOT bless sin.

However, blessings withheld do not equate to God's wrath.
We are in the Age of Grace which will come to an abrupt close most likely sooner than later. The wrath to come isn't for The Church.

First Thessalonians 1:10
And to wait for his Son from heaven,
whom he raised from the dead , even Jesus ,
which delivered us from the wrath to come.

First Thessalonians 5:9

For God hath not appointed us to wrath,
but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ.




There is absolutely nothing that needs to happen before Christ calls us (The Church) up to meet Him in the air/clouds.
There is no " one more or one last soul " that needs to be redeemed for the Rapture to take place.
The Rapture is a signless event .

The Tribulation is when the wrath of God is unleashed upon a wicked and depraved world.
A world that seems to refuse to repent.
However some will and do. Some.
All glory to God , The Church/ Bride/ Body of Christ WILL NOT be subjected to His wrath.

As far as examples of His wrath , the OT has alot of them.
However , The Book of Revelation describes God's wrath over a dozen times.
However, The Redeemed will not be here !!!

Praise The Lamb of God!
✝️
 

ItIsFinished!

Blood bought child of the King of kings.
Why are we still here?
Could it be God is giving us opportunity to participate in prayer and witness. Sharing your faith with others is awkward at times, and prayer can be hard work, There are still pockets in the world where new churches are being planted such as Myanmar to use as an example.
We're you asking or telling?
I'm somewhat confused. The part of my post you quoted ??
 

DWB

Well-Known Member
100% ??
So you believe the wrath of God has come upon America ?
Can you give a few examples as to how God's wrath has come upon America ?
I don't think we have seen God's wrath, if we had we would know it. But we have seen a huge loss of believers combined with the indifference of many non-believers who used to have some type of moral compass. There is no morality in this country except for us believers, and many find it easier to just look the other way. This country was founded on Biblical morality, and without the Biblical influence, the country can't function as it was intended. That's the reason for all the problems, a system that was designed for a moral people doesn't work for a country which has no morals.
 

ItIsFinished!

Blood bought child of the King of kings.
I don't think we have seen God's wrath, if we had we would know it. But we have seen a huge loss of believers combined with the indifference of many non-believers who used to have some type of moral compass. There is no morality in this country except for us believers, and many find it easier to just look the other way. This country was founded on Biblical morality, and without the Biblical influence, the country can't function as it was intended. That's the reason for all the problems, a system that was designed for a moral people doesn't work for a country which has no morals.
Exactly. If we were under the wrath of God , we would certainly know it.
Is this country falling further and further away from God?
Absolutely.
Why?
SIN.
God's wrath will not be poured out while The Church is still here.
Unfortunately it appears not everyone agrees.
 

Wally

Choose Your Words Carefully...
Lamentations 3:1

I am the man who has seen affliction under the rod of God’s wrath.


God's wrath has many manifestations which have been poured out on nations, peoples, even persons over time. Israel particularly suffered for her spiritual adultery.
Even in the Tribulation, God's wrath focuses on some subjects, while others face trials that probably don't seem much less severe.

God's wrath is not a once and done, final action. However His wrath does culminate during the Tribulation.
But even in His wrath there is mercy,

Mark 13:20
Unless the Lord limited those days, no one would survive. But He limited those days because of the elect, whom He chose.
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord does not delay His promise, as some understand delay, but is patient with you, not wanting any to perish but all to come to repentance.
 

ItIsFinished!

Blood bought child of the King of kings.
Lamentations 3:1

I am the man who has seen affliction under the rod of God’s wrath.


God's wrath has many manifestations which have been poured out on nations, peoples, even persons over time. Israel particularly suffered for her spiritual adultery.
Even in the Tribulation, God's wrath focuses on some subjects, while others face trials that probably don't seem much less severe.

God's wrath is not a once and done, final action. However His wrath does culminate during the Tribulation.
But even in His wrath there is mercy,

Mark 13:20
Unless the Lord limited those days, no one would survive. But He limited those days because of the elect, whom He chose.
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord does not delay His promise, as some understand delay, but is patient with you, not wanting any to perish but all to come to repentance.
Agreed He is not done with His wrath yet , but we currently are not under his wrath.
I think that needs to be understood .
Israel was in trouble alot mainly due to idolatry.
 

JoyJoyJoy

I Shall Not Be Moved
Concerning His wrath...it will be poured out over the entire earth.

As much evil as we see in the US, I do think we are nowhere near the depravity, poverty or evil seen in other areas of the world.

I think of parts of Africa, China, the ME, the Orient, and know that we can fall a lot farther. Their governments are probably more corrupt, the Orient has long had a reputation for child prostitution, we don't have pre-teen boys walking the streets with heavy artillery, we can afford to feed our children, we worship and witness in security for the most part, every member of this board has access to a computer, and the list goes on. But these other countries that I consider in worse moral shape have not yet tasted His wrath.

Just because we are seeing an uptick in open evil does not mean we are feeling His wrath. We are joining the rest of the secular world, perhaps.

Its sad to see the way the way America is going. As it has been pointed out in this thread, our home is not in this weary, sin sick world.
 
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Andy C

Well-Known Member
Agreed He is not done with His wrath yet , but we currently are not under his wrath.
I think that needs to be understood .
Israel was in trouble alot mainly due to idolatry.
Concur.

Here is an excerpt from the below linked article by Jack Kelley about Gods wrath

From these and other passages we can safely conclude that New Testament references to God’s Wrath overwhelmingly describe a specific period of judgment upon the post rapture world, beginning early in Daniel’s 70th Week and ending just before the 2nd Coming. His Wrath consists of three named sets of judgments and and possibly an additional one that God has kept secret”.

https://gracethrufaith.com/end-times-prophecy/the-wrath-of-god/
 
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