The Gay Celibate Christian?

Chris

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The Gay Celibate Christian?
By Israel Wayne

Looking over a list of Christian conferences coming up in 2023 I ran across one that states it is for: “LGBTQ+ Christians who have committed to celibacy as a personal call in their spiritual journeys.”

Here are some of the bios of the speakers:

“(Speaker A) identifies as cis/gay/queer and is the mom of a grown son from a 25-year mixed-orientation marriage.”

“(Speaker B, He/Him) is passionate about the intersection of faith, sexuality, and… facilitates conversations among Christian sexual and gender minorities.”

“(Rev. Speaker C, she/her) is…an outspoken advocate for youth ministry and social justice, (she/her) has worked as a youth leader, Children, Youth and Family Pastor, (has used) theatrical and improvisational elements in services but also to respond to God as a worship light and (has been)…a drag king, and occasional amateur DJ.”

“(Speaker D) was raised in a Christian home that was heavily involved in addiction recovery ministries. While leading in a large evangelical campus fellowship her first two years of college, (she) had a crisis of faith and ultimately joined a new group specifically created for Queer people of faith on campus. Attending (this same conference) in 2019 was a huge turning point for her, where she felt able to fully embrace her identity. She has gone through a long period of deconstructing her faith and continues to ponder the liberating potential of faith. She frames Jesus as her earliest example of what a revolutionary can look like.”


It goes on.

Where the Battle Fiercely Rages​

This issue reminds me of the following quote:

“If I profess with the loudest voice and clearest exposition every portion of the truth of God except precisely that little point which the world and the devil are at that moment attacking, I am not confessing Christ, however boldly I may be professing Christianity. Where the battle rages, there the loyalty of the soldier is proved, and to be steady on all the battlefield besides is mere flight and disgrace to him, if he flinches at that one point.” — A follower of Martin Luther, 2 April 1526, quoted in Chronicles of the Schönberg-Cotta Family (New York, 1865), page 321.

The front-line of the battle in Evangelicalism today is that of sexual ethics: Marriage, divorce, remarriage, fornication, adultery, pornography, abortion, same-sex attraction, “sexual orientation,” “gender identity,” “gender fluidity,” “non-binary,” “non-conforming,” transgender, and of course, the entire alphabet soup of titles and “preferred gender pronouns.”

In 2014, the liberal Presbyterian Church USA (PCUSA) published an article promoting the acceptance of “gay” as a category for Christians but offering the suggestion of celibacy for those who are not “married.” The United Methodist Church (UMC) also led with this path.

Christian colleges and university are also impacted by this movement. For instance, Calvin University (a school in Grand Rapids, MI that is connected to the Dutch Reformed tradition) has (in 2022) denounced premarital sex and defined marriage as between a man and a woman, however it still allows a support group for LGBTQ students on campus. In the 2020-21 academic year, the school allowed a bisexual student to be elected as student body president.

Matthew Vines, a self-identified “gay” man, and a Presbyterian authored the popular book God and the Gay Christian: The Biblical Case in Support of Same-Sex Relationships. Vines promotes celibacy outside of marriage but believes “gay Christians” have a theological case for same-sex marriage.

He has helped to shift the nature of the dialogue on this issue among Evangelicals. He says, “It’s a subtle but significant shift. (People are now) saying, ‘There’s nothing wrong with being gay in and of itself,’ and that is a big change.”

Moving the Goalpost​

It is believed by many activists that the way to normalize all LGBTQIA+ issues is to take the path of least resistance with Evangelicals. If you claim to be celibate or “non-practicing,” then everyone drops their guard and chills out. Pragmatically, their theory seems to work. This approach has been repeatedly attempted in the more conservative Presbyterian Church in America (PCA) denomination, who so far has withstood the acceptance of those into positions of leadership who self-identify as “gay Christian,” “homosexual Christian,” or even “same-sex attracted Christian.” Even some Southern Baptists are moving in this direction. Some of their top seminary faculty have spoken at conferences that affirm the acceptance of “identity” as long as the individuals are non-practicing.

The Law of Identity​

Many LGBTQIA+ advocates claim Jesus never taught on the matter, and they infer from this that He must have approved of such ideas. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Jesus said, regarding sexuality:

“Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So, they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate” – (Matt. 19:4-6, ESV).

The first law of formal logic is “The Law of Identity.” This very basic law asserts that “whatever a thing is, it is.” This kind of thesis also presents a “Classical Negation.” If something is true, the opposite is false (the Law of Non-Contradiction), and truth cannot in this sense be both true AND false (the Law of the Excluded Middle). So, when Jesus says there are two sexual categories of humans (male and female) in the original creation, He is describing a Universal Elimination all other possibilities.

A New Identity​

One of the churches the Apostle Paul founded in the middle of the first century had many of the same sexual problems that exist in America today. Rather than teaching them to see themselves as “Christian swindlers” “Christian adulterers,” or such, Paul emphasized their rebirth and new identity in Christ.

“Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God” – (1 Cor. 6:9-11, ESV, emphasis added).

Paul encouraged them to identify their past sins and struggles but to look forward, not back. You will never overcome a sin or habit that you believe you ARE. If something defines your very existence, you will never move past it because it controls you. You may be a male or female who struggles with same-sex attraction (or illicit heterosexual attraction), but rather than defining yourself by a temptation, you should not only abstain from sin, but pursue righteousness instead.

“We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin” – (Rom. 6:6).

This issue of identity is not just a side issue. It is the dam that holds back the floodgates of immorality in the Church. If you ARE something other than God says He made you to be, that makes Him out to be a liar. That makes humans, not God, the arbiters and definers of sexuality. The original argument in the garden from that serpent was, “Hath God REALLY said?” That is the enemy’s same approach today. God did not make anyone “gay” or “transgender.” He made them male and female. Sin has made them all these other things by which they self-identify. The solution is the same one the Church has been preaching for 2,000 years: The gospel of Jesus Christ that forgives sin and changes sinners.

https://www.raptureforums.com/politics-culture-wars/the-gay-celibate-christian/
 

MapleLeaf

Well-Known Member
It is a sin to want things that go against God's order. Embracing your sinful temptations and lusts as part of who you are is not OK. And how long can you say "I am not this" and abstain from acting out on that? Most of these "Side B" homosexual "Christians" eventually come out as "Side A" and it just as often comes out they had been secretly living the "side a" lifestyle the whole time they had been saying "Side B".
 

Spartan Sprinter 1

Formerly known as Shaun
It is a sin to want things that go against God's order. Embracing your sinful temptations and lusts as part of who you are is not OK. And how long can you say "I am not this" and abstain from acting out on that? Most of these "Side B" homosexual "Christians" eventually come out as "Side A" and it just as often comes out they had been secretly living the "side a" lifestyle the whole time they had been saying "Side B".
Yep that whole saying on a little bit of yeast ruins the bread comes to mind on this
 

usoutpost31

Well-Known Member
I know of at least two who have posted on this forum. Another who doesn't, and on his behalf I'll just say this.

This group is not accepted by anybody. They are continually pressured to conform to the world by the community they were once a part of. And scorned and excluded by the family to which they want to belong. He continues to acknowledge his same sex attraction publicly because he desires to be honest about it. He cannot claim that he is no longer tempted. He cannot marry and start a family because he does not want to live a lie.

This isn't because he isn't a believer. His faith is very strong. He just wants to have an honest conversation about it. And as someone who has battled sexual addiction and lust for many years and still hasn't won that battle; I know what he's talking about.

We need to treat them well. They have few friends. The devil is still after them and the world wants them to give in to their sinfulness.
 

twerpv

Well-Known Member
I know of at least two who have posted on this forum. Another who doesn't, and on his behalf I'll just say this.

This group is not accepted by anybody. They are continually pressured to conform to the world by the community they were once a part of. And scorned and excluded by the family to which they want to belong. He continues to acknowledge his same sex attraction publicly because he desires to be honest about it. He cannot claim that he is no longer tempted. He cannot marry and start a family because he does not want to live a lie.

This isn't because he isn't a believer. His faith is very strong. He just wants to have an honest conversation about it. And as someone who has battled sexual addiction and lust for many years and still hasn't won that battle; I know what he's talking about.

We need to treat them well. They have few friends. The devil is still after them and the world wants them to give in to their sinfulness.
Yes this. I am very anti-homosexual but I am very love them as God calls us to.
I am blessed that I am not afflicted with this sin but do feel and pray for those that are. It’s not because I’m special or ‘real good’, I’m just ….blessed.
 

rubyx1

rubyx1
Big difference between being tempted by sin and identifying yourself by the sin you are tempted with.

IMHO the Church plays a dangerous game by not getting this right.
per the 2 responses above, this is the trap that too many in the church have fallen for that we are not treating them well or loving them enough. That is a load of manure.*sorry to put it that way* They always use the word love but really their definition of love is to forget what God called and judged it and to embrace it not see it as wrong/sinful because that would be hateful and offensive. I am going to stay on topic but that mentality isn`t just with this particular thing but many others things also. feelings and emotions dictate rather than his written word.
 

Bethlehem57

Well-Known Member
Yes this. I am very anti-homosexual but I am very love them as God calls us to.
I am blessed that I am not afflicted with this sin but do feel and pray for those that are. It’s not because I’m special or ‘real good’, I’m just ….blessed.
Exactly! Sin is sin and Satan goes after us because we belong to Him. The Holy Spirit will continue to convict us of any sin in our lives. Its our responsibility, as born-again believers, to listen to Him and pray, repent, pray and keep praying to drive away the temptations that Satan knows attract/attack believers with. Grace upon grace and mercy to those who pray and repent, staying close to the Lord!

I am guilty as I will always be until I am clothed in my perfect body. Praying for those of us who struggle with all temptations; that the Lord grant us grace and mercy to win for His glory!
 

Wally

Choose your words carefully...
As I think about it, the hymn below in the present tense is correct, but once Christ has laid hold of us, we should be singing,

.... Just as I was.....

We do need to put off the old man, not embrace him.
The battle is tough enough with him clambering all over us, always trying to keep a grip, like some cosmic wrestling match from a Star Trek episode....

Yet we are to focus on Christ and His work in us. We have His power, His strength. We need to learn to appropriate it continuously.

Those who want to live in the old have little or no root or risk being choked by weeds. They will not fare well.
 

Andy C

Well-Known Member
As I think about it, the hymn below in the present tense is correct, but once Christ has laid hold of us, we should be singing,

.... Just as I was.....

We do need to put off the old man, not embrace him.
The battle is tough enough with him clambering all over us, always trying to keep a grip, like some cosmic wrestling match from a Star Trek episode....

Yet we are to focus on Christ and His work in us. We have His power, His strength. We need to learn to appropriate it continuously.

Those who want to live in the old have little or no root or risk being choked by weeds. They will not fare well.
What do you think the meaning is in what Paul wrote below?

Romans 7
14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.

21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
 

JoyJoyJoy

I Shall Not Be Moved
For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
This is meat.
O wreched man that I am!!! ....this describes me in all ways. Don't we all wrestle with our 'old man' until death of our mortal bodies??
Thank God for His Mercy!!!
 

Wally

Choose your words carefully...
It states the condition of the natural man. The one we deal with every day. And it points to our only Hope - Jesus Christ.
Certainly it's not an excuse to sin. For Paul also says:

1 Corinthians 9:26-27 HCSB

26 Therefore I do not run like one who runs aimlessly or box like one beating the air. 27 Instead, I discipline my body and bring it under strict control, so that after preaching to others, I myself will not be disqualified.


Hebrews 12:11
No discipline seems enjoyable at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it yields the fruit of peace and righteousness to those who have been trained by it.

1 Timothy 4:7-9

7 But have nothing to do with irreverent and silly myths. Rather, train yourself in godliness,

8 for the training of the body has a limited benefit,

but godliness is beneficial in every way,

since it holds promise for the present life

and also for the life to come.

9 This saying is trustworthy and deserves full acceptance.

Colossians 3:9
Do not lie to one another, since you have put off the old self with its practices


We have a new life to live in Christ. It is an active, growing, life long process.
 

soundingthealarm

Well-Known Member
Proverbs 6:16-19 These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

Repentance isn't improved behavior, IT IS at it pertains to salvation recognition of our need and BELIEF IN THE SAVIOR.

Repentace doesn't equal human perfection, it is the awareness of our broken state and that ONLY JESUS is our substituted perfection.

I totally feel for those BELIEVERS who battle that temptation because they are put in a special category with seeming less grace available but I'm pretty sure 70 X 7 doesn't have a sin category disclaimer.

I do understand as a culture the acceptance of such seems to be the fault of why we have so digressed as YET I would say just the opposite, I would say it was the unacceptance of being willing to UNDERSTAND that it was a real temptation to be dealt with NOT LEGALISTICALLY but by the Spirit of Grace.

THAT is how I have to win my battle as a husband and father in a culture with women wearing clothing to seduce eyes on every single turn ....I'm 55 year old male and since puberty that has been my battle and if it wasn't for grace and mercy and 70 X 7 I would of been made to feel hopeless.

The letter kills, but the Spirit brings life. If I hear a fellow believer have the gonads to confess to me, that is their battle, I KNOW for a fact that their carnal man sure didn't lead them to confess their weakness!! Cause our carnal man is at war with God. That is REPENTANCE its recognizing your wretched, blind and destitute and crying out to THE SAVIOR and trusting in HIS FINISHED WORK!!!

Now we can sure go ahead and talk about walking it out in discipline no doubt,....growing in grace and knowledge and walking in victory BUT don't throw stones at believers cause it seems worse than your self righteousness.

James makes it clear we are guilty of ALL SIN categorically ALL.

Thank God Jesus took ALL OUR GUILT and SHAME to the Cross and paid for it all.

*****This is talking about those who KNOW that is wrong and are confessing that weakness/battle, THE GROUP WHO PROUDLY SAY GAY AND PROUD CHRISTIANS is obviously not "repentant" but rather living in rebellion that would be like a single christian man saying he was going to choose to be "PROUD FORNICATING CHRISTIAN" or "PROUD ADULTEROUS CHRISTIAN" ...completely different mindset.
 

Wally

Choose your words carefully...
In Life saving, sometimes you have to let the victim drown, so they don't pull you down with them,
but you still pull them to shore and do CPR.

Love doesn't want to drown in sin with sinners, it wants to point to a Deliverer and Life Giver and lead the way if needed.
We were once no different than them, lost and dead in our sins. But now we have hope and that hope is based on the Word of Truth.

But if they want to go right back out especially amongst the sharks, about all you can do is throw a life line.

Of course perfect love has no fear and will swim out again and again to rescue the lost.
Thank You Lord Jesus for Your uncomprehendable Love.
 
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cheeky200386

Well-Known Member
It states the condition of the natural man. The one we deal with every day. And it points to our only Hope - Jesus Christ.
Certainly it's not an excuse to sin. For Paul also says:

1 Corinthians 9:26-27 HCSB

26 Therefore I do not run like one who runs aimlessly or box like one beating the air. 27 Instead, I discipline my body and bring it under strict control, so that after preaching to others, I myself will not be disqualified.


Hebrews 12:11
No discipline seems enjoyable at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it yields the fruit of peace and righteousness to those who have been trained by it.

1 Timothy 4:7-9

7 But have nothing to do with irreverent and silly myths. Rather, train yourself in godliness,

8 for the training of the body has a limited benefit,

but godliness is beneficial in every way,

since it holds promise for the present life

and also for the life to come.

9 This saying is trustworthy and deserves full acceptance.

Colossians 3:9
Do not lie to one another, since you have put off the old self with its practices


We have a new life to live in Christ. It is an active, growing, life long process.
AMEN!
 

Wally

Choose your words carefully...
All our works are filthy rags.
Salvation is from the Lord.
Grace is Grace.
It is by Faith, believing Christ and His Gospel.

Period.


But two witnesses challenge me every day:

Keith Green's: Asleep in the Light

And Dr Graham's: If you were charged with being a Christian, would their be enough evidence to convict you?


Neither question my salvation, but shed a deep introspect on my walk with my Savior.

Am I learning and emulating?

Or am I wandering around aimlessly, constantly being reigned in by the Teacher only to show I didn't learn the lesson....
There are millions of stubborn kids like me. We are even foolish enough to argue with the Teacher, but that doesn't stop Him.
His patience and love are without measure. And He will complete His work in us.

And although He lets me go to recess, I treasure His smile when He finds me in study hall instead.
 

cheeky200386

Well-Known Member
Sometimes on this forum, there seems to be a inching up to the legalists line, or works based salvation, but not quite crossing that line.
It's funny, because I see that sometimes there seems to be a belief that we shouldn't be able to tell the difference between a lost person and a Christian. As if there are absolutely no standards or differences. Yet, we are to know false teachers and we are to make sure we are not unequally yoked with unbelievers. How can we know that unless we can determine when someone is of the brethren?

My determination is ultimately if they profess an understanding of the Gospel. I observe behaviors for any initial red flags but then I look for the profession of faith. That is the final guage.
 
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