Work4Peanuts
I like being just a Well-Known Member
Did you even read the rest of my post? I didn't disagree with you. I said they were destroyed because of their abominations, and basically that the USA is marching straight down the same path.
The excavation of Sodom
- Thread starter LisaJoe1986
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Rocky R.
Well-Known Member
Of course I did, I just wanted to add an extra bit of technical jargon. Of course I know the USA is under judgment because of the nation's sins, one of them emulating the abominations of Sodom. I lived in San Francisco before, seen it firsthand. Just wanted to say that fire incinerates any disease, too.
castcrowns
Well-Known Member
Well, what the men of Sodom had in mind for the angels...that was inhospitable, too.
castcrowns
Well-Known Member
Absolutely.
One thing I've noticed regarding other subjects in the Bible, is that many more details are found in some other books in the Bible.
And of course, the subject of Sodom is one of them.
I too just went to Kindle and ordered the Jasher book as well. I can't wait to read it. I think historical books such as these can help us put certain passages of the Bible in context of the culture they were written in. No, they are not inspired, but they definitely can help shed light on difficult to understand biblical customs or references. Thanks for the recommendation!Jasher is an ancient Jewish history text that is referenced in the Bible in Joshua 10:13 then 2 Samuel 1:18 and 2 Timothy 3:8. Ok that last one, isn't direct but the ONLY place a Jewish person such as Paul would know the names of Jannes and Jambres IS from the book of Jasher. The event Paul is talking about is recorded in Exodus 7:8-13 but the names aren't given. Except over in Jasher, they are.
I got my copy of Jasher buying it as a kindle book and it's called
Ancient Book of Jasher, A New Annotated Edition by Ken Johnson Th.D. 2008 edition
here is what Ken says in the preface:
The book of J is one of 13 ancient history books that are recommended reading by the Bible. Out of these 13 only Jasher is still in existence. If we are to believe the text itself, this was written over 3,500 years ago and is approx the same age as the biblical book of Genesis.
It covers the time period as Genesis and Exodus but has twice as much information in it than Genesis. It answers a lot of questions raised in Genesis.
There have been at least two forgeries calling themselves Jasher. The text that Ken used is the only version of Jasher that corresponds to what scripture says it contains. Much of the information in Jasher can also be found in the Babylonian Talmud, the Mishna, and Ginzberg's Legends of the Jews. This version that Ken used is the source that the Mishna and Talmud quote from as a source document (he explains that further). This text dates back to the first century AD as the Seder Olam was written around AD 169 and references this version.
The quote in Joshua referring to the same event also recorded in Jasher says 2 things: 1--the book predates Joshua. 2--The Bible recommends reading it.
Margery talking here-- if you are comfortable with historical sources that back up the Bible and line up with it and you don't expect it to be 100% accurate (any more than Josephus or others who may stretch an account here or there, or rely on a lot of hearsay) then you'd probably enjoy reading it.
I'm very happy with any of these types of books I've gotten that Ken has been releasing. He is a dispensational Calvary Chapel pastor by training with a special interest in ancient texts. A lot of the ancient texts he is bringing out are validated now by the Dead Sea scrolls, proving they are NOT forgeries from the Middle Ages (but a lot of those, including some ancient gnostic stuff is floating around so it pays to be careful of the sources you read from)
And speaking of Josephus, Ken mentioned that Josephus wrote that Jasher is a VERY reliable history book. I feel like I should tell you this like really ancient gossip, in a whisper.
Ya know what JOSEPHUS SAID?????? Shhhhh, he said... you can count on Jasher!
Why isn't it in the Bible? It was never considered part of the canon or inspired by God. It is thought to be an accurate history book. In NO WAY does it equal Scripture, nor should it be viewed as such.
The word Jasher isn't a name, it is a word meaning UPRIGHT. According to rabbinic legend, it and several other books like it were brought from Jerusalem to Spain after the fall in AD70. They were kept safely by the Jews till 1613 when the first official printed copy was published in Venice Italy. The first English translation was in 1840. Ken says the text does show signs of corruptuion, scribal errors etc and more problematic--embellishments!
Some of these embellishments or tall tales may simply be Hebrew idiomatic expressions long lost. Ken mentions lion faced men doing battle that Jasher has. That has been found to be an idiom that we might say as LION HEARTED men in battle. It just means fearless.
Others are wonderfully funny in spots, such as Abraham telling his dad Terah what happened to Terah's idols. That had me laughing myself silly into an asthma attack. That I don't think is a tall tale, but accounts of Abraham's birth and something that Nimrod did with a furnace that echoed the 3 friends of Daniel certainly stretch my ability to swallow a tall tale. Those stories have an added on later flavour. You'll be able to tell fairly easily which is which.
Another point to be aware of, is that the Mormons have been involved with this book (they got it published in English in 1840) to shore up their claims to their bogus book of Mormon. Ken says, if they can show you a real historical book, they think you might be susceptible to swallowing their OTHER stuff. However Jasher contradicts Mormon teaching in some portions so they don't officially recommend it. And the translation is accurate.
The first 7 chapters deal with Creation to the Flood.
Chapter 8-26 span the life of Abraham.
In there, there are verifiable accounts from the Rape of the Sabines, to Pharoah Rikayon (I can't remember where he shows up in the King lists of Egypt or if he became one of their pantheon of "gods" but he is in other history somewhere)
Chapter 27 explains the death of Nimrod. There is a lot about the whole business of Babel and Nimrod in there during Abraham's life that sheds light on the way Babylon is portrayed --what happened, and the seeds of the Babylonian religion that would later infect the world as the language groups moved outward.
The Amorites, Edomites, Canaanites and others are documented.
Chapter 41 is Joseph's dream and down to his death in Chapter 56 there is a lot of detail that is fascinating.
Chapter 57 Zepho makes war-- this has to do with the legend of Romulus and Remus and the founding of Rome.
By Chapter 65 the Jews are enslaved.
Moses is born in Chapter 68. in 78 he is called by God
Chapter 79 Moses confronts Pharoah.
Chapter 82, the Law is given at Sinai
85 Moabites seduce Israel
87 Moses dies
Chapter 88 Joshua enters the land, 89 the conquest of Canaan, 90 Joshua divides the land
It ends with chapter 91 Rule of the Elders.
Whenever I read it, it's like a good book. you keep turning those pages, going slowly at the end, because it's going to finish, and it feels so sad to leave the book at the end knowing what else they faced in the years to come.
I highly recommend it for anyone who enjoys history and who won't try to see it as Bible truth, but rather as a good if flawed historical source of the time.
And Lisa I'm pretty certain the story of how Abraham dealt with Terah's idols will have you in whoops of laughter, it will tickle your funny bone for SURE!!!
Cloud Watcher
Well-Known Member
I downloaded Jasher on my Kindle today and started reading. It's interesting.
I was driving around the Dead Sea a couple of years ago and saw a marker that read "Lot's Wife". Apparently it is a pillar of salt close to that region of the Dead Sea where those two towns were. I went back and looked from the road but saw nothing. Due to time constraints didn't bother stopping and hiking to where it was to view it, but looking back (okay pun intended) I should have made a better attempt to check it out. Would have been somewhat interesting.
Cloud Watcher
Well-Known Member
Jasher mentions that people used to name cities they built with their own name. Sodom and Gomorrah were The grandsons of Noah's son Ham.
Hhhmmm.. I take alot of these location identifiers with a huge pinch of salt..(pardon the pun). I know there is not much rain in the area but salt does erode away with moisture, wind and sunlight. I find it hard to believe a woman sized lump of salt would remain in place over several thousand years. It's just a thing for the tourists I suspect. Of course I could be wrong. Do we think the woman was LITERALLY turned onto a pillar of salt or was her body encrusted with salt deposits during the event?
Ghoti Ichthus
Pray so they do not serve alone. Ephesians 6:10-20
The Bible is either true or it isn't.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2 Timothy 3:16, KJV
I saw her when I was over there.
Lot's wife was turned into a pillar of salt, as the Bible says. Some erosion has occurred, but she was still there in 1985. Confirmed by a Bedouin in the area that had nothing to gain or lose from telling me. The climate over there is very conducive to preserving stuff. God may well have wanted her to stand as a reminder because He commanded us to remember her, so He certainly could have made sure she was preserved. It makes sense that He would preserve her as a witness for us.
26 But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt.
Genesis 19:26, KJV
26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.
32 Remember Lot's wife.
33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
Luke 17:26-33, KJV
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Ghoti Ichthus
Pray so they do not serve alone. Ephesians 6:10-20
Jasher is available free online. I got mine from Parson Tom website, but there are other places, such as Christian Classics Ethereal Library CCEL and internet sacred text archive.
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lamborgini
Well-Known Member
Verse 31 kind of confuses me.
Len
Well-Known Member
I think it is just showing what can happen if you look back as with Lots wife bad things might happen if you were to return to get your stuff or even just think about getting it ....
Tall Timbers
Imperfect but forgiven
I believe she was literally turned into a pillar of salt.
Speaking, of salt...looks like you have more salt on your face than the Morton Salt girl! Try a little more pepper!
Tall Timbers
Imperfect but forgiven
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Well....to say 'became' does not say she literally was transformed into a pillar of salt. You are reading that into the text. Paul said he became all things to all men in order to win some. Did he literally become a gentile? No....its a descriptive term. Of course God could have transformed her on a molecular level into sodium chloride. I think it's more likely that she was consumed by the event and overtaken whereas lot and his family was delivered. If she is still there, I suspect her body is there, encapsulated in rock salt. In the end, it doesnt matter. God judged and destroyed sodom. Its historically proven the event happened.