The excavation of Sodom

LisaJoe1986

Active Member
Not sure if this has ever been posted in the past, but I stumbled on many Youtube videos on this excavation project in Israel. www.digsodom.com. The videos are fascinating and explain how the Minoans of Crete influenced the architecture and certainly the lifestyle in this region. The excavation also shows complete, utter destruction from an aerial object that scorched the area from SW to NE. Dr. Steven Collins is the man who has the videos. He is from a Calvary Chapel in New Mexico. Today, after listening to this, I read that the pope has said that the real sin of Sodom is not homosexuality, but that they were not hospitable to visitors. After what I learned today, I can, without reservation, say "I don't think so.!"
 

cheeky200386

Well-Known Member
/me looks around North America... wonders the same thing.

That is my response when unbelievers criticize God as being cruel and judgemental. I tell them that he has been way too patient with humans throughout history and point them to read the Old Testament focusing on the stiff-necked Israelites after all God did. Like seriously?! How more loving can God be?! They usually just shut up.

My sister did seem surprised by my answer and thought she might check it out. It hasn't happened yet, but I keep praying God sends more laborers in her path.
 

JSTyler

Well-Known Member
That is my response when unbelievers criticize God as being cruel and judgemental. I tell them that he has been way too patient with humans throughout history and point them to read the Old Testament focusing on the stiff-necked Israelites after all God did. Like seriously?! How more loving can God be?! They usually just shut up.

My sister did seem surprised by my answer and thought she might check it out. It hasn't happened yet, but I keep praying God sends more laborers in her path.
I always liken our current cultural climate to a lot of the book of Jeremiah and specifically in Jeremiah 30 and God's warning through the Prophet. They had rebelled and transgressed to the point that though Israel and Judah will have a remnant, and of course their God will preserve them; what had happened, was happening and what was about to happen was down to "There is no remedy."

I'm not pretending to be a prophet, a teacher or prognosticator. I feel like one of the proverbial people standing on a street corner looking at the exact right moment, at the locus where the unavoidable calamitous collision is about to occur. You can see it shaping into something indescribable and can do nothing but point it out to those not yet trapped in the mess, with a slim hope to escape.
 

cheeky200386

Well-Known Member
I always liken our current cultural climate to a lot of the book of Jeremiah and specifically in Jeremiah 30 and God's warning through the Prophet. They had rebelled and transgressed to the point that though Israel and Judah will have a remnant, and of course their God will preserve them; what had happened, was happening and what was about to happen was down to "There is no remedy."

I'm not pretending to be a prophet, a teacher or prognosticator. I feel like one of the proverbial people standing on a street corner looking at the exact right moment, at the locus where the unavoidable calamitous collision is about to occur. You can see it shaping into something indescribable and can do nothing but point it out to those not yet trapped in the mess, with a slim hope to escape.

That's true. We can warn and pray. I try to imagine what it was like for those Prophets admist a majority that fell away. Tough times just like today.
 

LisaJoe1986

Active Member
I always liken our current cultural climate to a lot of the book of Jeremiah and specifically in Jeremiah 30 and God's warning through the Prophet. They had rebelled and transgressed to the point that though Israel and Judah will have a remnant, and of course their God will preserve them; what had happened, was happening and what was about to happen was down to "There is no remedy."

I'm not pretending to be a prophet, a teacher or prognosticator. I feel like one of the proverbial people standing on a street corner looking at the exact right moment, at the locus where the unavoidable calamitous collision is about to occur. You can see it shaping into something indescribable and can do nothing but point it out to those not yet trapped in the mess, with a slim hope to escape.
I had a sort of vision last year during a night when I woke up grieving over my lost family and how desperately I want to see them saved. I was at a marathon race standing on the street watching the runners go by and had been to the end and saw that beyond the finish line was a drop off to their death. They were running fiercely trying to get to that line while everyone on the street was cheering them on, except me. I was waving my hands trying to get their attention and screaming at them to stop and turn back. No one would pay attention to me. I think God was giving me a mental picture of what the year would bring for me, as I became more and more aware of where we were on His timeline.

Happy New Year, everyone. I pray 2020 will bring many of our loved ones to the only One who can save.
 

athenasius

Well-Known Member
I had a sort of vision last year during a night when I woke up grieving over my lost family and how desperately I want to see them saved. I was at a marathon race standing on the street watching the runners go by and had been to the end and saw that beyond the finish line was a drop off to their death. They were running fiercely trying to get to that line while everyone on the street was cheering them on, except me. I was waving my hands trying to get their attention and screaming at them to stop and turn back. No one would pay attention to me. I think God was giving me a mental picture of what the year would bring for me, as I became more and more aware of where we were on His timeline.

Happy New Year, everyone. I pray 2020 will bring many of our loved ones to the only One who can save.
:bighug LisaJoe!

That reminds me of a dream I had about my unsaved dad about 30 years ago. I had 2 dreams. The first was me being up on a high mountain side, looking down at a series of hurricanes out at sea that were coming into the shore below where many people were busy with daily life, not seeing or comprehending the coming destruction. That was kind of a look at what was presently happening back around 1989 when I dreamed these 2 dreams.

The second one was after the storms had begun to come ashore, and even high up on the mountainside the winds were blowing hard, with the rain pelting down. I was just inside the door of a stone house carved out of the side of the mountain where it was safe. The rugged old wooden door (the Cross?) was open and I was trying to persuade my dad to come in before the door was shut and everyone caught outside would die. That was sometime in the future I thought.

He refused, and finally I had to go in because the door was shutting and I belonged inside. Nothing I said persuaded him. They were both given to me about 1989.

He died spring of 2017 unsaved 28 years later. I was given many moments to speak to him about salvation, to try and persuade him but he always refused.

I was reminded of the dreams, after he died, and at the same time God gave me such peace and comfort knowing that I literally had done all I could, and that God had done all HE would within the limit of the free will that God gave Dad to choose Him or reject Him.

The comfort I can offer you is that between now and the time we leave, God will give you many moments to speak. And God will do everything possible to draw them.

And if your unsaved loved ones continue to choose not to believe, there's always the wake up call of the rapture to hope for. And if they choose not even then, God promises to wipe all our tears

I look back and I have comfort and peace knowing that my dad refused with his eyes wide open, he knew what he chose and I don't have regret because I was found trying to persuade him, just like in my dream, and that IS comforting now, but at the time of the dream I just dreaded it.

It's like the armour of Ephesians. Having done all---- STAND!
Ephesians 6:13 King James Version (KJV)
13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

I did all I could. But his free will that God gave him ensured that it was still his choice to make. The choice he made was awful, but I know I did all I could. There is a LOT of peace, and comfort in that. God has given me that. I figured the wound would be dreadful to bear, but it's not. I know heaven is where God dries all our tears, and takes the pain of remembrance away but I've felt more than a little bit of that comfort here and now. I know more comfort is coming, but you won't have to fear your own clear knowledge of the horror in that moment. God will take much of that sting away. Even before the former things pass away!

Revelation 21:4-6 King James Version (KJV)

4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.


5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.


6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
 

LisaJoe1986

Active Member
:bighug LisaJoe!

That reminds me of a dream I had about my unsaved dad about 30 years ago. I had 2 dreams. The first was me being up on a high mountain side, looking down at a series of hurricanes out at sea that were coming into the shore below where many people were busy with daily life, not seeing or comprehending the coming destruction. That was kind of a look at what was presently happening back around 1989 when I dreamed these 2 dreams.

The second one was after the storms had begun to come ashore, and even high up on the mountainside the winds were blowing hard, with the rain pelting down. I was just inside the door of a stone house carved out of the side of the mountain where it was safe. The rugged old wooden door (the Cross?) was open and I was trying to persuade my dad to come in before the door was shut and everyone caught outside would die. That was sometime in the future I thought.

He refused, and finally I had to go in because the door was shutting and I belonged inside. Nothing I said persuaded him. They were both given to me about 1989.

He died spring of 2017 unsaved 28 years later. I was given many moments to speak to him about salvation, to try and persuade him but he always refused.

I was reminded of the dreams, after he died, and at the same time God gave me such peace and comfort knowing that I literally had done all I could, and that God had done all HE would within the limit of the free will that God gave Dad to choose Him or reject Him.

The comfort I can offer you is that between now and the time we leave, God will give you many moments to speak. And God will do everything possible to draw them.

And if your unsaved loved ones continue to choose not to believe, there's always the wake up call of the rapture to hope for. And if they choose not even then, God promises to wipe all our tears

I look back and I have comfort and peace knowing that my dad refused with his eyes wide open, he knew what he chose and I don't have regret because I was found trying to persuade him, just like in my dream, and that IS comforting now, but at the time of the dream I just dreaded it.

It's like the armour of Ephesians. Having done all---- STAND!
Ephesians 6:13 King James Version (KJV)
13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

I did all I could. But his free will that God gave him ensured that it was still his choice to make. The choice he made was awful, but I know I did all I could. There is a LOT of peace, and comfort in that. God has given me that. I figured the wound would be dreadful to bear, but it's not. I know heaven is where God dries all our tears, and takes the pain of remembrance away but I've felt more than a little bit of that comfort here and now. I know more comfort is coming, but you won't have to fear your own clear knowledge of the horror in that moment. God will take much of that sting away. Even before the former things pass away!

Revelation 21:4-6 King James Version (KJV)

4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.


5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.


6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
Thank you, Athenasius, for the kind encouragement. I have tried very hard to reach out to my family and share God's plan with them, especially the redemption part. They avoid it and me now. It is good to hear that you found a place of peace and hope I can experience the same peace.
 

LisaJoe1986

Active Member
Lemme just say, that Jewish Historical Documentary evidence such as Jasher backs you up 100%.

After I read Jasher (which goes into serious detail) I didn't wonder WHY God destroyed them, I wondered at HIS MERCY and GRACE for taking so long.
Tell me a bit about Jasher. I have heard of him, but never read anything. I have read Josephus' account of the fall of Jerusalem, 70 AD, and THAT was horrific.
 

athenasius

Well-Known Member
Tell me a bit about Jasher. I have heard of him, but never read anything. I have read Josephus' account of the fall of Jerusalem, 70 AD, and THAT was horrific.
Jasher is an ancient Jewish history text that is referenced in the Bible in Joshua 10:13 then 2 Samuel 1:18 and 2 Timothy 3:8. Ok that last one, isn't direct but the ONLY place a Jewish person such as Paul would know the names of Jannes and Jambres IS from the book of Jasher. The event Paul is talking about is recorded in Exodus 7:8-13 but the names aren't given. Except over in Jasher, they are.

I got my copy of Jasher buying it as a kindle book and it's called

Ancient Book of Jasher, A New Annotated Edition by Ken Johnson Th.D. 2008 edition

here is what Ken says in the preface:
The book of J is one of 13 ancient history books that are recommended reading by the Bible. Out of these 13 only Jasher is still in existence. If we are to believe the text itself, this was written over 3,500 years ago and is approx the same age as the biblical book of Genesis.

It covers the time period as Genesis and Exodus but has twice as much information in it than Genesis. It answers a lot of questions raised in Genesis.

There have been at least two forgeries calling themselves Jasher. The text that Ken used is the only version of Jasher that corresponds to what scripture says it contains. Much of the information in Jasher can also be found in the Babylonian Talmud, the Mishna, and Ginzberg's Legends of the Jews. This version that Ken used is the source that the Mishna and Talmud quote from as a source document (he explains that further). This text dates back to the first century AD as the Seder Olam was written around AD 169 and references this version.

The quote in Joshua referring to the same event also recorded in Jasher says 2 things: 1--the book predates Joshua. 2--The Bible recommends reading it.

Margery talking here-- if you are comfortable with historical sources that back up the Bible and line up with it and you don't expect it to be 100% accurate (any more than Josephus or others who may stretch an account here or there, or rely on a lot of hearsay) then you'd probably enjoy reading it.

I'm very happy with any of these types of books I've gotten that Ken has been releasing. He is a dispensational Calvary Chapel pastor by training with a special interest in ancient texts. A lot of the ancient texts he is bringing out are validated now by the Dead Sea scrolls, proving they are NOT forgeries from the Middle Ages (but a lot of those, including some ancient gnostic stuff is floating around so it pays to be careful of the sources you read from)

And speaking of Josephus, Ken mentioned that Josephus wrote that Jasher is a VERY reliable history book. I feel like I should tell you this like really ancient gossip, in a whisper.

:wink Ya know what JOSEPHUS SAID?????? Shhhhh, he said... you can count on Jasher! :lol

Why isn't it in the Bible? It was never considered part of the canon or inspired by God. It is thought to be an accurate history book. In NO WAY does it equal Scripture, nor should it be viewed as such.

The word Jasher isn't a name, it is a word meaning UPRIGHT. According to rabbinic legend, it and several other books like it were brought from Jerusalem to Spain after the fall in AD70. They were kept safely by the Jews till 1613 when the first official printed copy was published in Venice Italy. The first English translation was in 1840. Ken says the text does show signs of corruptuion, scribal errors etc and more problematic--embellishments!

Some of these embellishments or tall tales may simply be Hebrew idiomatic expressions long lost. Ken mentions lion faced men doing battle that Jasher has. That has been found to be an idiom that we might say as LION HEARTED men in battle. It just means fearless.

Others are wonderfully funny in spots, such as Abraham telling his dad Terah what happened to Terah's idols. That had me laughing myself silly into an asthma attack. That I don't think is a tall tale, but accounts of Abraham's birth and something that Nimrod did with a furnace that echoed the 3 friends of Daniel certainly stretch my ability to swallow a tall tale. Those stories have an added on later flavour. You'll be able to tell fairly easily which is which.

Another point to be aware of, is that the Mormons have been involved with this book (they got it published in English in 1840) to shore up their claims to their bogus book of Mormon. Ken says, if they can show you a real historical book, they think you might be susceptible to swallowing their OTHER stuff. However Jasher contradicts Mormon teaching in some portions so they don't officially recommend it. And the translation is accurate.

The first 7 chapters deal with Creation to the Flood.
Chapter 8-26 span the life of Abraham.
In there, there are verifiable accounts from the Rape of the Sabines, to Pharoah Rikayon (I can't remember where he shows up in the King lists of Egypt or if he became one of their pantheon of "gods" but he is in other history somewhere)
Chapter 27 explains the death of Nimrod. There is a lot about the whole business of Babel and Nimrod in there during Abraham's life that sheds light on the way Babylon is portrayed --what happened, and the seeds of the Babylonian religion that would later infect the world as the language groups moved outward.
The Amorites, Edomites, Canaanites and others are documented.
Chapter 41 is Joseph's dream and down to his death in Chapter 56 there is a lot of detail that is fascinating.
Chapter 57 Zepho makes war-- this has to do with the legend of Romulus and Remus and the founding of Rome.
By Chapter 65 the Jews are enslaved.
Moses is born in Chapter 68. in 78 he is called by God
Chapter 79 Moses confronts Pharoah.
Chapter 82, the Law is given at Sinai
85 Moabites seduce Israel
87 Moses dies
Chapter 88 Joshua enters the land, 89 the conquest of Canaan, 90 Joshua divides the land
It ends with chapter 91 Rule of the Elders.

Whenever I read it, it's like a good book. you keep turning those pages, going slowly at the end, because it's going to finish, and it feels so sad to leave the book at the end knowing what else they faced in the years to come.

I highly recommend it for anyone who enjoys history and who won't try to see it as Bible truth, but rather as a good if flawed historical source of the time.

And Lisa I'm pretty certain the story of how Abraham dealt with Terah's idols will have you in whoops of laughter, it will tickle your funny bone for SURE!!!
 
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LisaJoe1986

Active Member
Jasher is an ancient Jewish history text that is referenced in the Bible in Joshua 10:13 then 2 Samuel 1:18 and 2 Timothy 3:8. Ok that last one, isn't direct but the ONLY place a Jewish person such as Paul would know the names of Jannes and Jambres IS from the book of Jasher. The event Paul is talking about is recorded in Exodus 7:8-13 but the names aren't given. Except over in Jasher, they are.

I got my copy of Jasher buying it as a kindle book and it's called

Ancient Book of Jasher, A New Annotated Edition by Ken Johnson Th.D. 2008 edition

here is what Ken says in the preface:
The book of J is one of 13 ancient history books that are recommended reading by the Bible. Out of these 13 only Jasher is still in existence. If we are to believe the text itself, this was written over 3,500 years ago and is approx the same age as the biblical book of Genesis.

It covers the time period as Genesis and Exodus but has twice as much information in it than Genesis. It answers a lot of questions raised in Genesis.

There have been at least two forgeries calling themselves Jasher. The text that Ken used is the only version of Jasher that corresponds to what scripture says it contains. Much of the information in Jasher can also be found in the Babylonian Talmud, the Mishna, and Ginzberg's Legends of the Jews. This version that Ken used is the source that the Mishna and Talmud quote from as a source document (he explains that further). This text dates back to the first century AD as the Seder Olam was written around AD 169 and references this version.

The quote in Joshua referring to the same event also recorded in Jasher says 2 things: 1--the book predates Joshua. 2--The Bible recommends reading it.

Margery talking here-- if you are comfortable with historical sources that back up the Bible and line up with it and you don't expect it to be 100% accurate (any more than Josephus or others who may stretch an account here or there, or rely on a lot of hearsay) then you'd probably enjoy reading it.

I'm very happy with any of these types of books I've gotten that Ken has been releasing. He is a dispensational Calvary Chapel pastor by training with a special interest in ancient texts. A lot of the ancient texts he is bringing out are validated now by the Dead Sea scrolls, proving they are NOT forgeries from the Middle Ages (but a lot of those, including some ancient gnostic stuff is floating around so it pays to be careful of the sources you read from)

And speaking of Josephus, Ken mentioned that Josephus wrote that Jasher is a VERY reliable history book. I feel like I should tell you this like really ancient gossip, in a whisper.

:wink Ya know what JOSEPHUS SAID?????? Shhhhh, he said... you can count on Jasher! :lol

Why isn't it in the Bible? It was never considered part of the canon or inspired by God. It is thought to be an accurate history book. In NO WAY does it equal Scripture, nor should it be viewed as such.

The word Jasher isn't a name, it is a word meaning UPRIGHT. According to rabbinic legend, it and several other books like it were brought from Jerusalem to Spain after the fall in AD70. They were kept safely by the Jews till 1613 when the first official printed copy was published in Venice Italy. The first English translation was in 1840. Ken says the text does show signs of corruptuion, scribal errors etc and more problematic--embellishments!

Some of these embellishments or tall tales may simply be Hebrew idiomatic expressions long lost. Ken mentions lion faced men doing battle that Jasher has. That has been found to be an idiom that we might say as LION HEARTED men in battle. It just means fearless.

Others are wonderfully funny in spots, such as Abraham telling his dad Terah what happened to Terah's idols. That had me laughing myself silly into an asthma attack. That I don't think is a tall tale, but accounts of Abraham's birth and something that Nimrod did with a furnace that echoed the 3 friends of Daniel certainly stretch my ability to swallow a tall tale. Those stories have an added on later flavour. You'll be able to tell fairly easily which is which.

Another point to be aware of, is that the Mormons have been involved with this book (they got it published in English in 1840) to shore up their claims to their bogus book of Mormon. Ken says, if they can show you a real historical book, they think you might be susceptible to swallowing their OTHER stuff. However Jasher contradicts Mormon teaching in some portions so they don't officially recommend it. And the translation is accurate.

The first 7 chapters deal with Creation to the Flood.
Chapter 8-26 span the life of Abraham.
In there, there are verifiable accounts from the Rape of the Sabines, to Pharoah Rikayon (I can't remember where he shows up in the King lists of Egypt or if he became one of their pantheon of "gods" but he is in other history somewhere)
Chapter 27 explains the death of Nimrod. There is a lot about the whole business of Babel and Nimrod in there during Abraham's life that sheds light on the way Babylon is portrayed --what happened, and the seeds of the Babylonian religion that would later infect the world as the language groups moved outward.
The Amorites, Edomites, Canaanites and others are documented.
Chapter 41 is Joseph's dream and down to his death in Chapter 56 there is a lot of detail that is fascinating.
Chapter 57 Zepho makes war-- this has to do with the legend of Romulus and Remus and the founding of Rome.
By Chapter 65 the Jews are enslaved.
Moses is born in Chapter 68. in 78 he is called by God
Chapter 79 Moses confronts Pharoah.
Chapter 82, the Law is given at Sinai
85 Moabites seduce Israel
87 Moses dies
Chapter 88 Joshua enters the land, 89 the conquest of Canaan, 90 Joshua divides the land
It ends with chapter 91 Rule of the Elders.

Whenever I read it, it's like a good book. you keep turning those pages, going slowly at the end, because it's going to finish, and it feels so sad to leave the book at the end knowing what else they faced in the years to come.

I highly recommend it for anyone who enjoys history and who won't try to see it as Bible truth, but rather as a good if flawed historical source of the time.

And Lisa I'm pretty certain the story of how Abraham dealt with Terah's idols will have you in whoops of laughter, it will tickle your funny bone for SURE!!!
Thanks Margery, I just ordered it on Amazon. Can't wait to dig in. Do you have a recommended version of Enoch too? I read it years ago and it was quite interesting. I might revisit that one too. It was kind of creepy, if I recall correctly. NOT nighttime reading. I would love to hear your thoughts on it too!
 

athenasius

Well-Known Member
For Enoch again I'd recommend Ken Johnson, same author, and in fact ANY of his historical books are great. What Ken does is take the old texts, reprint them but often with a commentary from a dispensational, pretrib, pre mill, literal grammatical historical point of view. In short, his theology is a match to what we have here on Rapture Forums.

I enjoyed Enoch very much, and Ken points out where the later insertions are likely to have happened, and what the significance is of some of the passages. That one is helpful for getting to know a little more about Enoch to Noah in the preflood era. Ken will tie into appropriate Bible passages that line up with what Enoch is saying which is extremely helpful. Enoch is directly quoted in Jude but it's also in the background of ideas that Peter, Paul and John reference.

If you delve into any of the old historical books-- the ones that date back to the first century AD or before Ken's your guy for a safe tour thru the dusty mildewed age spotted scrolls that people have dug up.

There is some pretty ancient nasty stuff that people have reprinted as well-- that comes out of the early heresies and gnostic cults.

Kind of like the zombie apocalypse in ancient scroll form. The early church killed them, and the writings were somewhat obscured over time, but then they've popped back up, to bite us again!

Some are coming from the Nag Hamadi library that was discovered in Egypt (home to some of the WORST heretical cults of the early church) dug up, translated and bringing old gnostic stuff back to life to plague the church again.

He has one of his books, that is called Demonic Gospels, simply to make sure people understand that there are a lot of old GNOSTIC heretical writings floating around, from that era. In that book he explains WHAT they teach and exactly WHAT REAL Christianity teaches in comparison. Kind of a spot the heresy and de bunk it tour.

Or in my analogy-- with the zombie apocalypse-- Killing those ideas with the sword of the Spirit, the Bible, making those zombie scrolls go back to being dead.

Why that might be useful is that the Emergent Church is breathlessly enthusiastically importing these ideas including ones that crept into the Desert Fathers (watch out for them, that is a gang of snakes and vipers) or reading these gnostic texts without the Biblical knowledge to even understand how they pervert Christianity. The Desert Fathers stuff is responsible for a lot of contemplative prayer, walking the maze and other really pagan concepts that came from gnostics who should remain DEAD AND SILENT. But thanks to the uncritical enthusiasm and total lack of discernment these deadly ideas are making Laodiceans everywhere just quiver with delight.

Ken is a safe tour guide so to speak thru the perils of the early years of the Church as well as thru the old Jewish historical stuff.
 
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Rocky R.

Well-Known Member
Not sure if this has ever been posted in the past, but I stumbled on many Youtube videos on this excavation project in Israel. www.digsodom.com. The videos are fascinating and explain how the Minoans of Crete influenced the architecture and certainly the lifestyle in this region. The excavation also shows complete, utter destruction from an aerial object that scorched the area from SW to NE. Dr. Steven Collins is the man who has the videos. He is from a Calvary Chapel in New Mexico. Today, after listening to this, I read that the pope has said that the real sin of Sodom is not homosexuality, but that they were not hospitable to visitors. After what I learned today, I can, without reservation, say "I don't think so.!"

Inhospitality? That's what my pro-homosexual, pro-gay-marriage, pro-fill-in-the-perversion-here professor in college said about Sodom and Gommorah!
 

Amethyst

Angie ... †
Lemme just say, that Jewish Historical Documentary evidence such as Jasher backs you up 100%.

After I read Jasher (which goes into serious detail) I didn't wonder WHY God destroyed them, I wondered at HIS MERCY and GRACE for taking so long.
Ugh looking at excerpts you cannot help but think of today with the Antifa and BLM crowds performing atrocities and injustices but then turning and crying that the cops aren't protecting *them* when citizens protect themselves!! :mad:
 

Work4Peanuts

I like being just a Well-Known Member
Inhospitality? That's what my pro-homosexual, pro-gay-marriage, pro-fill-in-the-perversion-here professor in college said about Sodom and Gommorah!
Inhospitality is referred to as one of the sins of Sodom according to Ezekiel 16:49-50.

"Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had arrogance, abundant food and careless ease, but she did not help the poor and needy. 50 Thus they were haughty and committed abominations before Me. Therefore I removed them when I saw it."

Their pride and apathy for the poor while living in abundance caused them to commit abominations. It certainly is inhospitable to try to homosexually gang rape visitors to the city. They were destroyed for their abominations, but the description of Sodom in the passage above feels uncomfortably familiar to this American in this day and age.
 

Rocky R.

Well-Known Member
Inhospitality is referred to as one of the sins of Sodom according to Ezekiel 16:49-50.

"Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had arrogance, abundant food and careless ease, but she did not help the poor and needy. 50 Thus they were haughty and committed abominations before Me. Therefore I removed them when I saw it."

Their pride and apathy for the poor while living in abundance caused them to commit abominations. It certainly is inhospitable to try to homosexually gang rape visitors to the city. They were destroyed for their abominations, but the description of Sodom in the passage above feels uncomfortably familiar to this American in this day and age.
Sure, they were guilty of that as well -- the inhospitality bit. But why did He rain fire on Sodom and Gommorah in the execution of His judgment? Because fire will kill any disease, and any STDs those Sodomites were carrying.
 
For Enoch again I'd recommend Ken Johnson, same author, and in fact ANY of his historical books are great. What Ken does is take the old texts, reprint them but often with a commentary from a dispensational, pretrib, pre mill, literal grammatical historical point of view. In short, his theology is a match to what we have here on Rapture Forums.

I enjoyed Enoch very much, and Ken points out where the later insertions are likely to have happened, and what the significance is of some of the passages. That one is helpful for getting to know a little more about Enoch to Noah in the preflood era. Ken will tie into appropriate Bible passages that line up with what Enoch is saying which is extremely helpful. Enoch is directly quoted in Jude but it's also in the background of ideas that Peter, Paul and John reference.

If you delve into any of the old historical books-- the ones that date back to the first century AD or before Ken's your guy for a safe tour thru the dusty mildewed age spotted scrolls that people have dug up.

There is some pretty ancient nasty stuff that people have reprinted as well-- that comes out of the early heresies and gnostic cults.

Kind of like the zombie apocalypse in ancient scroll form. The early church killed them, and the writings were somewhat obscured over time, but then they've popped back up, to bite us again!

Some are coming from the Nag Hamadi library that was discovered in Egypt (home to some of the WORST heretical cults of the early church) dug up, translated and bringing old gnostic stuff back to life to plague the church again.

He has one of his books, that is called Demonic Gospels, simply to make sure people understand that there are a lot of old GNOSTIC heretical writings floating around, from that era. In that book he explains WHAT they teach and exactly WHAT REAL Christianity teaches in comparison. Kind of a spot the heresy and de bunk it tour.

Or in my analogy-- with the zombie apocalypse-- Killing those ideas with the sword of the Spirit, the Bible, making those zombie scrolls go back to being dead.

Why that might be useful is that the Emergent Church is breathlessly enthusiastically importing these ideas including ones that crept into the Desert Fathers (watch out for them, that is a gang of snakes and vipers) or reading these gnostic texts without the Biblical knowledge to even understand how they pervert Christianity. The Desert Fathers stuff is responsible for a lot of contemplative prayer, walking the maze and other really pagan concepts that came from gnostics who should remain DEAD AND SILENT. But thanks to the uncritical enthusiasm and total lack of discernment these deadly ideas are making Laodiceans everywhere just quiver with delight.

Ken is a safe tour guide so to speak thru the perils of the early years of the Church as well as thru the old Jewish historical stuff.
Thanks, I ordered a copy of the Jasher book and will probably order the Enoch book too.
 
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