The Bible on How to Treat Women

depserv

Well-Known Member
I was on a political site yesterday where something said by Billy Graham's daughter was being discussed, and two posts were made that I think show a big lie being perpetrated on the ignorant by those who hate God's Word. Here they are, copied and pasted:

"The bible is clear on the matter. Man > Women. ""Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." (I Timothy 2:11-14). But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God." (I Corinthians 11:3). "For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man." (I Corinthians 11:8-9)""

"According to her religion, she is a woman and therefore has nothing to say. She needs to learn to be subservient and silent. Pray us back to the good old days so you can be chattel and we won't have to listen to your fear mongering dribble."

My response was that while the Bible is not consistent with feminism, it does tell us that a man should love his wife like Christ loved the church, and Christ died for the church, which shows great love. And when you look at how women are treated in Christian cultures compared to other cultures, it's clear that women are not treated like property. My question is, might there be a better response that I haven't thought of? This is a common theme used to drive people away from believing God's Word and it's good to have a good response to it.

This is the site by the way:
http://cnsnews.com/blog/michael-w-c...erica-were-last-generation#comment-2037383328
 

Hol

Worships Him
Good question, and the simple answer is to read of highly favored women throughout scripture. As far as women entrusted with teaching / leadership, three come to mind: Deborah, Priscilla & Lydia. There is Christ's mother Mary, and how special she was to be entrusted with His early rearing. Apostle Paul reminded Timothy to follow his early teaching from godly women.

But silence is good too, I get too wordy often, and that generally leads nowhere.

My church would not have a woman teaching men, but it isn't prohibited. Clear as mud? The deeper matter is submission to authority of scripture. Can a woman be so immersed in authority to Christ's Word that she can teach men? Yes, but the reality is that most women are not placed in a teaching role due to their strong humility & submissive abiding in Christ's headship (or a husband's). Often they teach from ambition.

One quick point, I recently read a study showing that women are scripturally not designed to lead in the role of Bishop or overseeing church discipline. That is reserved for men ❤
 

jonshaff

Fellow Servant
1 Timothy 5:14 I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully.

Wow...looks like major responsibility here.

Husband and wife...co-equals with different roles...Both very important to having a Godly, Christ centered Family unit.

edit...we home school and my wife POURS into my Kids the Word of God while I'm at work...HUGE RESPONSIBILITY Here

Thing is...Genesis tells us that a woman will desire to rule over the husband..A byproduct of the curse...

Genesis 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to (rule over) thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
 

mbrown1219

Heaven's Stables
My experience with users of those scriptures are they are the most abusive of women. They hide behind a false usage of scripture to get their way with women.
1 Timothy 5:14 I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully.

Wow...looks like major responsibility here.

Husband and wife...co-equals with different roles...Both very important to having a Godly, Christ centered Family unit.

edit...we home school and my wife POURS into my Kids the Word of God while I'm at work...HUGE RESPONSIBILITY Here

Thing is...Genesis tells us that a woman will desire to rule over the husband..A byproduct of the curse...

Genesis 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to (rule over) thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
That is where domestic abuse becomes an issue, when we pervert God's Word! IMO!

http://www.raptureforums.com/forums/threads/domestic-abuse.88183/

From Ephesians Chapter 5, clarification on the Genesis verses quoted by Jon that keep us from misusing scripture to excuse ourselves from a balanced comprehension of God's Word.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians+5&version=KJV

22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.

23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.

29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:

30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.

King James Version (KJV)
by Public Domain
 
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mbrown1219

Heaven's Stables
Was not finished posting is all Jon! Not meant to imply you are perverting God's word. I lost my place because of getting kicked off the 'net and did not get the next set of verses posted, the ones that tell us about everyone's role in relationships. Sorry to have offended you. I am trying to find the scriptures now for an edit. Stand by...

Not saying you misuse scripture Jon, but many abusers do that and should not. It is not good to beat each other up with our bibles. God never intended that. I know you do not do that Jon, but many people do.
 
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Almost Heaven

Well-Known Member
My question is, might there be a better response that I haven't thought of? This is a common theme used to drive people away from believing God's Word and it's good to have a good response to it.
This is the question posed by depserv. Although we have some excellent responses, the main question has been missed and it is an excellent question-how about we back up a couple of steps and answer the question-if someone were standing with you face to face how would you respond to this remark?

"According to her religion, she is a woman and therefore has nothing to say. She needs to learn to be subservient and silent. Pray us back to the good old days so you can be chattel and we won't have to listen to your fear mongering dribble."
 

jonshaff

Fellow Servant
This is the question posed by depserv. Although we have some excellent responses, the main question has been missed and it is an excellent question-how about we back up a couple of steps and answer the question-if someone were standing with you face to face how would you respond to this remark?

"According to her religion, she is a woman and therefore has nothing to say. She needs to learn to be subservient and silent. Pray us back to the good old days so you can be chattel and we won't have to listen to your fear mongering dribble."
I don't have a great response...but...

It really all goes back to they won't understand spiritual biblical matters unless they have the Holy Spirit teaching them.

1 Corinthians 2:13-14 And we speak about these things, not with words taught us by human wisdom, but with those taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual things to spiritual people.
The unbeliever does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him. And he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Usually, people like the ones mentioned above are only wanting to start a fight and not really willing to try and understand biblical concepts.

However, don't let that deter you from "giving people the reason you have Hope in you, with meekness and fear."
 

Almost Heaven

Well-Known Member
The following words by the apostle Paul are frequently used to denigrate the Bible as sexist—“I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner” (1 Timothy 2:12–13, emphasis added). The criticism that Paul’s teaching is sexist is silenced by a careful consideration of context.

First, Paul obviously does not intend to say that women must always be silent in church. Rather, in a culture in which women were largely illiterate and unlearned, Paul is saying that until a woman learns she must not presume to teach. If Paul had intended to say a woman must always be silent, he would not have given women instructions on how to pray or prophesy publicly in church (1 Corinthians 11:5).

Furthermore, by alluding to Eve’s deception in the garden, Paul underscores how crucial it is that women, like men, involve themselves in learning. Far from chastising Eve for her role in the Fall, Paul chastises the Jewish men of his day for excluding women from learning, thus leaving them vulnerable to deception. Just as Adam was responsible for failing to protect Eve from deception, so too the men of Paul’s day would be held responsible if they hindered women from studying and growing in their faith.

Finally, Paul’s words refute the matriarchal authoritarianism practiced by pagan cults in that day. Ephesus, where Timothy ministered, was the home of a cult dedicated to the pagan goddess Artemis. Worship of Artemis was conducted under the authority of an entirely female priesthood that exercised authoritarian dominion over male worshipers. Thus, Paul emphasizes that women should not presume undue authority over men. Paul neither elevates women over men nor men over women, but is rather concerned that men and women be granted equal opportunity to learn and grow in submission to one another and to God (1 Timothy 2:11; cf. Ephesians 5:21).
 

jonshaff

Fellow Servant
The following words by the apostle Paul are frequently used to denigrate the Bible as sexist—“I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner” (1 Timothy 2:12–13, emphasis added). The criticism that Paul’s teaching is sexist is silenced by a careful consideration of context.

First, Paul obviously does not intend to say that women must always be silent in church. Rather, in a culture in which women were largely illiterate and unlearned, Paul is saying that until a woman learns she must not presume to teach. If Paul had intended to say a woman must always be silent, he would not have given women instructions on how to pray or prophesy publicly in church (1 Corinthians 11:5).

Furthermore, by alluding to Eve’s deception in the garden, Paul underscores how crucial it is that women, like men, involve themselves in learning. Far from chastising Eve for her role in the Fall, Paul chastises the Jewish men of his day for excluding women from learning, thus leaving them vulnerable to deception. Just as Adam was responsible for failing to protect Eve from deception, so too the men of Paul’s day would be held responsible if they hindered women from studying and growing in their faith.

Finally, Paul’s words refute the matriarchal authoritarianism practiced by pagan cults in that day. Ephesus, where Timothy ministered, was the home of a cult dedicated to the pagan goddess Artemis. Worship of Artemis was conducted under the authority of an entirely female priesthood that exercised authoritarian dominion over male worshipers. Thus, Paul emphasizes that women should not presume undue authority over men. Paul neither elevates women over men nor men over women, but is rather concerned that men and women be granted equal opportunity to learn and grow in submission to one another and to God (1 Timothy 2:11; cf. Ephesians 5:21).

Please cite your source next time...

http://www.equip.org/bible_answers/must-women-be-silent-in-church/
 

mikhen7

Freed By Christ to Serve Christ
Genesis 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to (rule over) thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
Hi Jon. Good response. In reference the verse above I personally prefer to use the word "Control" rather than "Rule Over." (In today's semantics-some women take it the wrong way) Although "rule over" can be used if the correct interpretation is made from it. The nominal sentence does not have a verb; a future verb must be supplied, because the focus of the oracle is on the future struggle. The Hebrew ‏תְּשׁוּקָה‎ is also used in Gen. 4:7 with reference to Cain and the sin crouching at the door, with the desire to control or hunger after him.

The context is the result or consequence of sin with reference to the woman, who would now have a desire to have control with reference to men. To the Lord, it would be sinful for the woman to not recognize God's placement of the man with final say (after taking his wife's opinion lovingly and respectfully into consideration) in all matters imputed to him. In a godly relationship the wife has responsibilities that are God given and so does the man. If the man follows through with the sacrificial giving of himself to make sure his "suitable helper" is fully taken care of, emotionally, mentally, spiritually, and physically then she will naturally love and listen to her husbands godly advice.

When would submission not apply? When the husband is living in sin toward her. If he breaks his God ordained responsibility and strays from God he also abdicates his right to make wise and responsible decisions in regards to his wife and family. Although the principle applies between two non-believers it can only be simulated but not emulated. For it requires a man to be intimately related to God to know where his place is in reference to God, which is submission. If a man is not saved he does not have a model to follow and he cannot be empowered by God to be a godly husband. He can only come as close as his innate moral faculties allow--and that, only if he wants to.

As godly men we have desires that we take to God and a godly man will not try to usurp God's authority. Instead, a godly man will humbly take his requests to God and relish in all that he promises. A Godly man knows what true submission is and can emulate his submissive spirit toward God as a model for his wife. What I mean by that is, since God knows how to give "good gifts" to man and desires to do this abundantly (cp. Matt.7:11; Luke 11:13), and since man knows what a joy it is to receive those gifts, he models it and in turn gives all that is "good" within his power to his wife. A wife who sees this spirit of love, respect, and generosity coming from her husband is overjoyed to be related to him in her "suitable helper role" as a wife. Submission is not a problem here.

If the wife lives apart from the Lord then she too, will not be able to live in the role God gave her. She will fight, control, and even try to usurp his position because she is not rightly related to God. This can be a thorn in the side of a godly man or a source for violence toward her if ungodly or acting ungodly.

All the passages I have seen in this thread have to be interpreted with regards to God's love and model of His love for humanity.

God Bless

OP, that person clearly is taking God's word out of context in order to use it to purposely control her. We are never told to force our will on a woman. In the context of a rightly related to God man--one who is not living sinfully toward his wife--force is never ever an issue. A godly man respects and welcomes her role as a suitable helper and partner in all decision making processes. The only time a woman will rebel against her husband is when he is not fulfilling his role as a godly man and head of the household. Incidently the word for suitable helper means one "who goes before" her mate as if to fight with and for him -- to help him. God knew his responsibility would be to heavy to bear alone so He created the one perfect for the mission and he cloned her from mans DNA (the rib). This process would ensure that Adams helper would also be aligned with all that Adam was. When we seek God for a suitable mate we are asking Him to bring to us the one compatible as well.

We could go on....
 
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jonshaff

Fellow Servant
Hi Jon. Good response. In reference the verse above I personally prefer to use the word "Control" rather than "Rule Over." (In today's semantics-some women take it the wrong way) Although "rule over" can be used if the correct interpretation is made from it. The nominal sentence does not have a verb; a future verb must be supplied, because the focus of the oracle is on the future struggle. The Hebrew ‏תְּשׁוּקָה‎ is also used in Gen. 4:7 with reference to Cain and the sin crouching at the door, with the desire to control or hunger after him.

The context is the result or consequence of sin with reference to the woman, who would now have a desire to have control with reference to men. To the Lord, it would be sinful for the woman to not recognize God's placement of the man with final say (after taking his wife's opinion lovingly and respectfully into consideration) in all matters imputed to him. In a godly relationship the wife has responsibilities that are God given and so does the man. If the man follows through with the sacrificial giving of himself to make sure his "suitable helper" is fully taken care of, emotionally, mentally, spiritually, and physically then she will naturally love and listen to her husbands godly advice.

When would submission not apply? When the husband is living in sin toward her. If he breaks his God ordained responsibility and strays from God he also abdicates his right to make wise and responsible decisions in regards to his wife and family. Although the principle applies between two non-believers it can only be simulated but not emulated. For it requires a man to be intimately related to God to know where his place is in reference to God, which is submission. If a man is not saved he does not have a model to follow and he cannot be empowered by God to be a godly husband. He can only come as close as his innate moral faculties allow--and that, only if he wants to.

As godly men we have desires that we take to God and a godly man will not try to usurp God's authority. Instead, a godly man will humbly take his requests to God and relish in all that he promises. A Godly man knows what true submission is and can emulate his submissive spirit toward God as a model for his wife. What I mean by that is, since God knows how to give "good gifts" to man and desires to do this abundantly (cp. Matt.7:11; Luke 11:13), and since man knows what a joy it is to receive those gifts, he models it and in turn gives all that is "good" within his power to his wife. A wife who sees this spirit of love, respect, and generosity coming from her husband is overjoyed to be related to him in her "suitable helper role" as a wife. Submission is not a problem here.

If the wife lives apart from the Lord then she too, will not be able to live in the role God gave her. She will fight, control, and even try to usurp his position because she is not rightly related to God. This can be a thorn in the side of a godly man or a source for violence toward her if ungodly or acting ungodly.

All the passage I have seen in this thread have to be interpreted with regards to God's love and model of His love for humanity.

God Bless

OP, that person clearly is taking God's word out of context in order to use it to purposely control her. We are never told to force our will on a woman. In the context of a rightly related to God man--one who is not living sinfully toward his wife--force is never ever an issue. A godly man respects and welcomes her role as a suitable helper and partner in all decision making processes. The only time a woman will rebel against her husband is when he is not fulfilling his role as a godly man and head of the household. Incidently the word for suitable helper means one "who goes before" her mate as if to fight with and for him -- to help him. God knew his responsibility would be to heavy to bear alone so He created the one perfect for the mission and he cloned her from mans DNA (the rib). This process would ensure that Adams helper would also be aligned with all that Adam was. When we seek God for a suitable mate we are asking Him to bring to us the one compatible as well.

We could go on....
Awesome post, brother!
 
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