The basis of our interest in Revelation is also the basis of understanding it.

usoutpost31

Well-Known Member
Revelation is a challenging book. Heavy on symbolism, there are many methods of interpreting it. Some that are really out there.

But here's what troubling to me. There is still a great deal of confusion about it, even among premillennialists, futurists, dispensationalists. And it led me to wonder why even the pre-tribulation rapture "watchers" are going so far off the reservation. To the point where they are promoting things that are not even in the Bible.

Take the Mark of the Beast prophecy. I keep running into this. People are in a panic, fearing they've accidentally received it. The vaccine being the latest hot candidate for the MOB. It's not just that they drew that conclusion. There is a not-insignificant group of Christians on the Internet who continually insist that the vax is the MOB. There's no reasoning with them. For them, it is the MOB. End of discussion. Then they push this idea on other confused Christians. They're so sure of themselves, that people believe them.

They are big on the concept of being "deceived". To them, it means people are tricked or fooled into doing something they don't understand. All the more reason to keep our heads on a swivel. Otherwise, someone will come up and sneak the MOB onto us. But the Bible doesn't just say they are deceived. It also says why they are deceived. False prophets, messiahs performing great signs and wonders. Making false proclamations about the return of Christ. Matt 24:5,11,23-26. The Antichrist performing signs and wonders. 2 Thess 2:9. The False prophet performing signs and wonders, such as bringing fire down from the sky. Rev 13:14.

For me, it's not hard to understand this. Revelation 13 lays it out really well. John of Patmos told us what would happen, how it would happen. But we need to read the whole chapter. We cannot just read the last three verses and ignore the fifteen that came before it.

There was the September 23 2017 "sign". And it didn't represent what Revelation 12 described, anyway. Yes, Jesus told us there would be signs in the sun, moon and stars. But he also told us what those signs would be, specifically. The sun and moon will be darkened (Matt 24:29). The sun will be black as a sackcloth of hair, the moon turned into blood, the stars of the sky fall to the earth, and the sky recedes like a scroll. Rev 6:12-14. These aren't vague signs left to interpretation, but specific and unmistakeable.

La Palma and Yellowstone. The BBC and their docudramas brought the concept of apocalyptic eruptions from these volcanoes to the American conscious. When the Cumbre Veija volcano erupted two years ago, I found myself in the position of needing to calm frightened Christians, who had been told by their favourite prophecy teachers they needed to "watch out" for a colossal tsunami that could threaten the US east coast. I had actually read the original scientific paper that brought forth this idea, as well as the subsequent further studies that showed this to be a remote possibility. But we had people invoking Revelation 8:8-9, saying if the volcano split in two, it would be a fulfillment of this judgment. Except even if that happened, it wouldn't have the effect of killing a third of the creatures in the sea.

Yellowstone indeed has a greater capacity for a destructive eruption than most of the volcanoes in the world. But even if it does erupt again, it most likely would be a smaller scale that would most affect the areas closest to it. A VEI 8 "super eruption" is very, very remote possibility. Popular culture, the media and social media has made it seem like a much greater threat than it is. We don't have to live in fear of it.

My point in all this....for a proper understanding of Bible prophecy, of Revelation, we have to root our understanding into the words that were actually written. We cannot allow popular culture to influence our beliefs. The secular world has its own ideas of how the world might end. It shouldn't play into ours. Neither can we lean on secret or esoteric interpretation of certain Bible passages.

These are things that are afflicting even the pre-Trib community today. Failure to be "Berean". Letting others tell us what we should believe about the times we live in. A lot of the mocking and scoffing is because people are departing from Scriptural truth and making up their own scenarios for how Revelation might come to pass today.

And honestly, it's costing us.
 

ItIsFinished!

Blood bought child of the King of kings.
Why would any pre-trib believer think it would be possible to take the MOB??

They won't even be here when it is implemented.
The Scriptures are clear on this.
The Church are not on earth during Revelation 13.
Maybe the problem is alot of those who claim to be pre-trib dispensentionalist , really are not.
They aren't if their theology contradicts them.
 

Matthew6:33

Withstand in the evil day. Eph 6:13
My brother the problem is that Christians are bible illiterate these days. It is impossible to understand revelation without having a strong understanding of the old testament. Yes it is very symbolic but the rest of scripture gives us the keys to those symbols. While we can't understand it all we can get close through proper prayer and bible study. Many false teachers these days. Many Christians looking to be told and not looking to seek for themselves. Bad combo.

Luke 11:9 NKJV — “So I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.
 

Tall Timbers

Imperfect but forgiven
Staff member
Why would any pre-trib believer think it would be possible to take the MOB??

They won't even be here when it is implemented.
The Scriptures are clear on this.
The Church are not on earth during Revelation 13.
Maybe the problem is alot of those who claim to be pre-trib dispensentionalist , really are not.

Only a sliver of Believers study the Bible. People still have their human nature and when they're ignorant on the topic sometimes take ownership of a theory that doesn't make Biblical sense. Maybe they trusted the person who shared the wrong information with them. Maybe it was a pastor in their church or a friend they look up to.

Clarity of Scripture varies from person to person. So does IQ. So does one's walk with God.
 

Tall Timbers

Imperfect but forgiven
Staff member
Also how many Churches actually teach it? <10% Maybe????? I always get sad when we get to Jude and class is like alright, up next we are going to the gospel of John. :mope

The number I hear thrown around is one in twenty churches teaches on eschatololgy, and even then some of them do so very rarely and there is probably a lot of questionable teachings among that 5%.
 

lightofmylife

Blessed Hope-Prepare To Fly!
The number I hear thrown around is one in twenty churches teaches on eschatololgy, and even then some of them do so very rarely and there is probably a lot of questionable teachings among that 5%.
These percentages are :cry that they were either not properly taught in seminary(I have heard cemetery) or purposely do not want to. A pastor should be equipped to know and teach the word :bibleof God.
 
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Chris

Administrator
Staff member
Revelation is a challenging book. Heavy on symbolism, there are many methods of interpreting it. Some that are really out there.

True. Which is why I recommend people read out section on the book of Revelation that can he found here for sound articles on the subject:

https://www.raptureforums.com/category/revelation/

There are 169 articles in that section alone. :thumbup

But here's what troubling to me. There is still a great deal of confusion about it, even among premillennialists, futurists, dispensationalists. And it led me to wonder why even the pre-tribulation rapture "watchers" are going so far off the reservation. To the point where they are promoting things that are not even in the Bible.

Take the Mark of the Beast prophecy. I keep running into this. People are in a panic, fearing they've accidentally received it. The vaccine being the latest hot candidate for the MOB. It's not just that they drew that conclusion. There is a not-insignificant group of Christians on the Internet who continually insist that the vax is the MOB. There's no reasoning with them. For them, it is the MOB. End of discussion. Then they push this idea on other confused Christians. They're so sure of themselves, that people believe them.

The Bible says the MoB will be in the hand or forehead. I never once saw anything get a vax in the hand or forehead. If people had actually read the Bible they would know the shot in the arm doesn't match either of those criteria. :doh

Sadly, many "prophecy" and other "Christian" sites ran with this topic and issue in order to create fear, clicks to their websites, etc. instead of reasoning with people and showing them the truth from God's Word. I resisted the speculation and sensationalism that many sites fell to in order to get readers and visitors. God's truth trumps everything.

They are big on the concept of being "deceived". To them, it means people are tricked or fooled into doing something they don't understand. All the more reason to keep our heads on a swivel. Otherwise, someone will come up and sneak the MOB onto us. But the Bible doesn't just say they are deceived. It also says why they are deceived. False prophets, messiahs performing great signs and wonders. Making false proclamations about the return of Christ. Matt 24:5,11,23-26. The Antichrist performing signs and wonders. 2 Thess 2:9. The False prophet performing signs and wonders, such as bringing fire down from the sky. Rev 13:14. For me, it's not hard to understand this. Revelation 13 lays it out really well. John of Patmos told us what would happen, how it would happen. But we need to read the whole chapter. We cannot just read the last three verses and ignore the fifteen that came before it.

There are definitely a lot of false teachers and false prophets out there sowing confusion in the end times. :sad

There was the September 23 2017 "sign". And it didn't represent what Revelation 12 described, anyway. Yes, Jesus told us there would be signs in the sun, moon and stars. But he also told us what those signs would be, specifically. The sun and moon will be darkened (Matt 24:29). The sun will be black as a sackcloth of hair, the moon turned into blood, the stars of the sky fall to the earth, and the sky recedes like a scroll. Rev 6:12-14. These aren't vague signs left to interpretation, but specific and unmistakeable.

La Palma and Yellowstone. The BBC and their docudramas brought the concept of apocalyptic eruptions from these volcanoes to the American conscious. When the Cumbre Veija volcano erupted two years ago, I found myself in the position of needing to calm frightened Christians, who had been told by their favourite prophecy teachers they needed to "watch out" for a colossal tsunami that could threaten the US east coast. I had actually read the original scientific paper that brought forth this idea, as well as the subsequent further studies that showed this to be a remote possibility. But we had people invoking Revelation 8:8-9, saying if the volcano split in two, it would be a fulfillment of this judgment. Except even if that happened, it wouldn't have the effect of killing a third of the creatures in the sea.

Yellowstone indeed has a greater capacity for a destructive eruption than most of the volcanoes in the world. But even if it does erupt again, it most likely would be a smaller scale that would most affect the areas closest to it. A VEI 8 "super eruption" is very, very remote possibility. Popular culture, the media and social media has made it seem like a much greater threat than it is. We don't have to live in fear of it.

My point in all this....for a proper understanding of Bible prophecy, of Revelation, we have to root our understanding into the words that were actually written. We cannot allow popular culture to influence our beliefs. The secular world has its own ideas of how the world might end. It shouldn't play into ours. Neither can we lean on secret or esoteric interpretation of certain Bible passages.

These are things that are afflicting even the pre-Trib community today. Failure to be "Berean". Letting others tell us what we should believe about the times we live in. A lot of the mocking and scoffing is because people are departing from Scriptural truth and making up their own scenarios for how Revelation might come to pass today.

And honestly, it's costing us.

I agree. People need to read the Bible themselves and search the scriptures to see if what people say is true. Even their favorite Bible prophecy teachers. This is what the Bereans were praised for doing.

There are a lot of people who desperately want to appear like they have a "truth" that no one else saw or taught before so that they can exalt themselves. The expense at their attempts to raise themselves up is that it comes at the expense of God's Word. I don't think God will take that lightly. :eek

This is why we don't allow date-setting on the rapture, etc. where people take liberties with the scriptures and do what we call "newspaper exegesis". We need to read the Bible and see what it says, then look around in the news to see if what the Bible says is coming true in the world. Not look around in the news and then try to shoehorn current events to fit into the Bible. :doh

Sadly, there is a lot of that these days. :ohno
 

usoutpost31

Well-Known Member
Why would any pre-trib believer think it would be possible to take the MOB??
A lot of people think it won't happen the way John of Patmos saw it. That it's just too obvious if it happened that way. Instead the Mark will be something secret, done in the dark. They lean heavily on the deception aspect. People will take it, unsuspectingly.

If you're a sole believer, in a group of six or seven, and the rest of them are all saying that ____ is the MOB. And they're all very confident in that position.

It's just hard for that lone person not to be rattled by this. Especially when they're not sure themselves.
 

Les St. Amand

Well-Known Member
Also how many Churches actually teach it? <10% Maybe????? I always get sad when we get to Jude and class is like alright, up next we are going to the gospels. :mope
My church is actually going through the book of Revelation right now. We are in chapter 4 right now. We have two that preach alternately. One is going through Revelation, the other going through Collossians. Last week's sermon was dedicated pretty much learning about angels and their roles, etc.
Never heard teaching like that before from the pulpit. Feel mighty blessed to be part of this church.
 

daygo

Well-Known Member
Good one usoutpost31, all I can say is that we are all sinners and tend to have the danger of fitting scripture around our own thinking, so when something happens like a natural disaster or a pandemic you get all these theories and dependent on your thinking at the time could get you getting nervous and wondering if this or that is true over time this can then get exasperated and you'll believe whatever suits you to calm down. Offshoot is stick to scripture and the literal interpretation of it, if you get my drift.
 
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