Stumping Atheists

Brother Albert R.

Jesus loved us and said we should Love our enemies
I have a special day each year that I set aside to argue with atheists. It’s the only day of the year I’ll argue with them, February 30th.
February 30 or 30 February is a date that does not occur on the Gregorian calendar, where the month of February contains only 28 days, or 29 days in a leap year. ... However, this date did happen once on the Swedish calendar in 1712.


I thought you were going to say April 1st...:bouncies
 
Something that struck me in the study of Biblical prophecies is the mind-boggling accuracy of the Bible.

For just 11 (out of the many) Old Testament prophecies to be fulfilled TO THE LETTER in one Man, Jesus Christ, you arrive at the staggering odds if 1 in 15 billiion billion!

(As there are currently less than 8 billion people alive on planet earth, the context of such a number is indeed amazing!)

This number is arrived at by doing simple math: (every attempt is made to keep the numbers as conservative as possible)

1. What are the odds that Jesus would be born in Bethlehem?
As there were (approx) 200 places that were named, the odds are given as 1 in 200

2. What are the odds that He would be betrayed by a friend?
1 in 12

3. What are the odds that He would be crucified?
As shown in previous responses this is a truly remarkable prophecy - a form of capital punishment invented by the Romans nearly a thousand years after the prophecy and then applied to a Jew - but again, for the sake of conservatism, we shall limit this answer to the number of ways in which capital punishment can be carried out - and we arrive at a number of 1 in 300.

4. They would cast lots for His garment.
1 in 20 (possible things that could have been done with His garment)

After just 4 prophecies we have:
1 over 200 times 1 over 12 times 1 over 300 times 1 over 20 which is 1 in 14,400,000 - one can easily see how by extrapolating all 11 prophecies we come to a result of 1 in 15 billion billion!

This type of infinitesimal accuracy in Biblical prophecy is impossible to ignore to explain away.

Josh McDowell records a substantial number of other prophecies (which follow the same amazing pattern) in his book 'Evidence Which Demands A Verdict'. All he does is record the prophecy and then relate how throughout history, these prophecies were fulfilled in fantastic detail - and then leaves the reader with one question: what is your verdict?

If you, as an atheist, really want to test the power of Biblical prophecy for yourself, you have an amazing opportunity! You see, there are still a number of outstanding prophecies (e.g. recorded in the Books of Daniel, Revelation, 1 & 2 Thessalonians, etc) which are FUTURE! So you will be able to see with your very own eyea, how God's promises come to pass, again, TO THE LETTER! But please, let me warn you, these are without doubt the most terrifying times that mankind ever has or ever will face and if you are there to witness them, you will wish that you had believed in God when you had the opportunity.

So - continue to ask questions, learn all you can, but please, do not fool yourself that all this is merely coincidence - you do so at ultimate risk....
 

Len

Well-Known Member
Two miracles come to mind, the virgin birth of Jesus (prophesied hundreds of years earlier in Isaiah 7:14) and all born again believers new birth experiences ...... millions of them ALL with the same father ....
 

crossnote

fully dependent upon His grace
Christians aren't called to stump unbelievers, but rather proclaim to them the Gospel of life through the death, burial and resurrection of our Lord.
Debate usually puts the Christian on the enemies turf, dealing with reason, logic, observations, etc.. Not that these things are wrong in and of themselves it's just that the Gospel isn't received through those ways...

1 ¶ And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.
2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. (1Cor 2:1, 2, 5, 7, 14, 12, 13)
 
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Andy C

Well-Known Member
Christians aren't called to stump unbelievers, but rather proclaim to them the Gospel of life through the death, burial and resurrection of our Lord.
Debate usually puts the Christian on the enemies turf, dealing with reason, logic, observations, etc.. Not that these things are wrong in and of themselves it's just that the Gospel isn't received through those ways...
Yes, proclaim the gospel. However, IMO, any conversation that has to do with Him, can cause the first little seeds to be planted, even with a diehard atheist.
 

Brother Albert R.

Jesus loved us and said we should Love our enemies
Debate usually puts the Christian on the enemies turf, dealing with reason, logic, observations, etc..
Why not use these methods, but under God's power! We are called to reason as God Himself does...
Isa.1:18-20
18“Come now, let us reason together,”
says the LORD.
“Though your sins are like scarlet,
they will be as white as snow;
though they are as red as crimson,
they will become like wool.
19If you are willing and obedient,
you will eat the best of the land.
20But if you resist and rebel,
you will be devoured by the sword.”

1 Pet.3:15
But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,

Acts 18:28

For he (Apollos) vigorously refuted his Jewish opponents in public debate, proving from the Scriptures that Jesus was the Messiah.

Acts 9:29
He (Paul) talked and debated with the Hellenistic Jews, but they tried to kill him.

Acts 28:23-31
23So they set a day to meet with Paul, and many people came to the place he was staying. He expounded to them from morning to evening, testifying about the kingdom of God and persuading them about Jesus from the Law of Moses and the Prophets.
24Some of them were convinced by what he said, but others refused to believe. 25They disagreed among themselves and began to leave after Paul had made this final statement: “The Holy Spirit was right when He spoke to your fathers through Isaiah the prophet:
26‘Go to this people and say,
“You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.”
27For this people’s heart has grown callous;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts,
and turn, and I would heal them.’
28Be advised, therefore, that God’s salvation has been sent to the Gentiles, and they will listen!”
30Paul stayed there two full years in his own rented house, welcoming all who came to visit him. 31Boldly and freely he proclaimed the kingdom of God and taught about the Lord Jesus Christ.
 
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Eschatology

New Member
Hello everybody! I, as you may be able to tell from my username, am an atheist. I, along with a group of people do a weekly podcast on atheism. In accordance with the forum rules, I am not going to promote the podcast. That said, we are interested in hearing the other side of the argument, and so, I would like to hear from you the best arguments you can give defending Christianity, tell me what proves there must be a god beyond a shadow of a doubt. Do your best to provide an argument that will stump an atheist.

I am not here to argue, this is intended as a one sided platform where you can express yourself. I'm also not allowed to respond anyways :p So with those things in mind, rest assured, I'm looking for a challenge not a conflict.
If you truly want to challenge your belief system, check out videos by Dr. Sean McDowell. He has debated many atheists. There is also, of course, the debate between William Lane Craig vs. Christopher Hitchens.
 

crossnote

fully dependent upon His grace
If you truly want to challenge your belief system, check out videos by Dr. Sean McDowell. He has debated many atheists. There is also, of course, the debate between William Lane Craig vs. Christopher Hitchens.
For an older version, there video versions of Josh (Sean's father), and John Warwick Montgomery- probably the best apologist of the 20th Century.
 

Wings Like Eagles

Well-Known Member
Haven't read down through this very LOOOOOOONG thread so I don't know if this is territory that has been visited or not: Defending the truth is to benefit God's people--it is not for unbelievers. There are NO intellectual arguments that can convince an unbeliever. God, in His word, says, "Not by might, not by power, but by My Spirit, says the Lord of Heaven's Armies." (Zechariah 4:6) He has, can and will assert His sovereignty over stubborn and rebellious humanity but, He prefers that humans would turn from their wicked ways, confess that they are helpless without His grace and seek His guidance. He sent His Son to lead us. He sends His Holy Spirit to "convict us of sin, righteousness and judgment". This is His ministry of reconciliation. We can choose His gracious gift of redemption and receive His indwelling presence, or we can turn away and be forever damned. No one can force it on us and no one can take it away from us, once having made the choice. A simple, yet profound choice.
 

crossnote

fully dependent upon His grace
Haven't read down through this very LOOOOOOONG thread so I don't know if this is territory that has been visited or not: Defending the truth is to benefit God's people--it is not for unbelievers. There are NO intellectual arguments that can convince an unbeliever. God, in His word, says, "Not by might, not by power, but by My Spirit, says the Lord of Heaven's Armies." (Zechariah 4:6) He has, can and will assert His sovereignty over stubborn and rebellious humanity but, He prefers that humans would turn from their wicked ways, confess that they are helpless without His grace and seek His guidance. He sent His Son to lead us. He sends His Holy Spirit to "convict us of sin, righteousness and judgment". This is His ministry of reconciliation. We can choose His gracious gift of redemption and receive His indwelling presence, or we can turn away and be forever damned. No one can force it on us and no one can take it away from us, once having made the choice. A simple, yet profound choice.
I tend to agree. Bringing someone to the Lord through apologetics is similar to 'bringing spmeone to the Lord', through getting them to recite the sinner's prayer. It must be the Lord's work with or without the aide of such maneuvers.
 

Wings Like Eagles

Well-Known Member
If the goal is to stump a person who considers themselves an aetheist, your time would be better spent tossing pearls before swine.
Amen. There is only one way to reach the lost--presenting the gospel and praying for them. We pray that the Father would draw them to His Son, that the Holy Spirit would convince them that they are sinners in desperate need of a Saviour and that they would turn from their life of sin and seek His forgiveness. Apologetics--defending the faith, is just that, defending faith. When I argue with atheists, I do so for the sake of believers who may be watching. Evangelism is for the unbelievers in our lives. As we witness about the source of our faith and show our faith through the fruits of His indwelling Spirit, even rank pagans, like Simon Magus in the Book of Acts understood that real faith was powerful and wanted to buy what he saw!!
 
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