Speak God's Truth With Love

kay ming

New Member
Some people, on this site, wanted to know how to treat with specific persons; for example, LGBTQ+ persons. Everyone seems to have a different take on the situation. Some people say that LGBTQ+ persons are born that way, and others say it doesn’t matter, just love them and let them live their lives. I agree with the “we should love them” part. Some people say that the LGBTQ+ lifestyle is a sin, and others say it is not. When I asked God for His take on the situation, He reminded me of this one profound truth: He created us, so we have to trust Him, in spite of our own human experiences. That brought an even deeper question to mind - since we’re currently in a fallen state, can any of us really hold our own experiences as the ‘gospel truth’? It breaks my heart when we try to define or redefine what sin is, and what it is not. Sin is any act that separates a person from God (Isaiah 59:2, KJV). I assure you, God isn’t busy debating with His angels whether an alcoholic, or an abusive person, or an idolater, or a sexually immoral person was born that way, or nurtured that way. God is a ‘bigger picture’ kind of God. He’s more focused on how He’s going to save us from sin.



There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death” (Proverbs 14:12, KJV). Read it three times for emphasis….



THIS IS MY PERSONAL TESTIMONY: Some years ago, I fell in love with a man. He said that I was the love of his life. My parents, on the other hand, wept. They warned me about the relationship. You see… I am their only daughter. They love me a lot. They said, “Please, Kay, leave this man alone. He will hurt you, and then he will use you. Trust us!”. I cared for this man a lot. We shared so many significant experiences together, so I thought that if my parents just got to know him, they would accept him. While the man was busy showering me with affection, my parents pleaded with me even more. They even reached out to my church to speak to me, and I was very angry with them for that. I was angry with my church too. Eventually, there came a time when the man began to make a lot of demands in our relationship, but when I couldn’t quite meet those demands, he began to hate me, and his hate intensified towards me. I was confused, so I tried to pacify the situation, by being gentle with him. But he wasn’t having any of it. When things got fully out of control, I ran back to my parents. They scolded me, then they embraced me. This isn’t a made-up story. These events really did happen. I just need you guys to understand something…in the beginning of that relationship, there were two opposing views: I thought the man loved me, but my parents knew he did not. Parents don’t always get it right sometimes. They’re only human. But substitute my parents with God. He is perfect. Now, I’ll ask you this earnest question…. since when is our God in the business of lying to us?



Take a journey, back into the past, with me. How far are we going? Well, we’re going back to the beginning, of course. Back to where it all began… Genesis. Let’s look at the scene where the serpent is tempting Eve in the garden. He cleverly twisted God’s words and Eve’s interpretation of God’s words, and then he deceived her. Then Eve looked at the fruit and saw it was good. She took it, ate it and offered some to her husband, Adam. Do you know what I would like to know? Why didn’t Eve say this to the serpent? - “Yes, this fruit DOES look good, but God told both my husband and me– if you eat the fruit, you will surely die. Now, listen here, serpent! I know God. He created both my husband and me. So, I trust (aka faith) that He wants what’s best for us. I know God, but I don’t know you. Get the hell away from me!”. When we read Genesis 2:17 (NIV), it goes: God said, “But you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.” What happened after Adam and Eve ate the fruit? Well, they got kicked out of the garden, then they lived a hard life outside of the garden, then they died. Did God lie to them? No. Unfortunately, throughout the course of human history, it seems to me that God is the one who keeps getting the shorter end of the stick. Think about this for a second - whenever God issues a command, He always informs us about the consequences beforehand; not after the fact. What I learned from this simple truth is that God is honest at all times. He’s unable to lie.



Okay, let’s leave the book of Genesis and jump ahead a little. Where are we going? Well, we’re going to visit our good friend, the apostle Paul. Now, before I take you to specific verses that Paul wrote, I want to take a few seconds to share some interesting facts about Paul’s life. The apostle Paul (originally named Saul), was born a Jew in Tarsus. He was present when the Jews stoned Stephen to death. While on the road to Damascus, (in pursuit of Christians), Paul had a supernatural encounter with Jesus Himself…but that encounter left Paul blind. But his sight was restored three days later by a man named Ananias, in the city of Damascus. Paul was then baptized, and through this experience, Paul received the Holy Spirit, who helped Paul to develop a personal relationship with God. So, immediately, Paul began to proclaim that Jesus is the messiah and the Son of God. I need you guys to remember everything you just read about Paul. It’s super important, okay. It will come in handy later. Anyways, three years later, Paul met the apostle, Peter, then eventually Jesus’ brother (James), and was henceforth recognized as the 13th apostle.



Now, I’ll tell you something about these apostles. These men were the “original gangster unit” for Christ. They were proxies of God, and they were serious defenders of the faith. They could not afford to slip up when it came to representing God’s Word, because God Himself would hold them accountable for it on judgment day. Apostles were not there to minimize God’s words or contradict it. Their main role was to serve as messengers of God, and to travel to distant lands, preaching the gospel as a means of establishing churches there. By extension, this required them to speak God’s truth, and to do so at all times. Remember that, okay! The apostles successfully accomplished their role, and they were not afraid to die to uphold God’s truth. In fact, all of them (with the exception of John the apostle), died gruesome deaths because they chose to preach God’s truth. They were unafraid, since they knew Jesus was waiting on the other side, to embrace them for their commitment to Him and His Word. Guys, you need to remember everything I said about Paul. Go back and read his testimony again, if you need to.



Have any of you guys ever read Paul’s letters to the early churches? Doesn’t he come across as harsh in a lot of his letters? Yeah, he does. But I am here to reassure you that his admonitions always came from a source of love and God’s truth. And why not? The man deserves all bragging rights, because he has been beaten multiple times by mobs, shipwrecked at sea, shipwrecked onto foreign islands, imprisoned, slandered against and killed for speaking God’s truth. Have any of us gone through all of these disasters, while upholding God’s truth? No? Then we haven’t earned the privilege of misinterpreting and misrepresenting God’s words. Don’t kick or boo me off the stage, just yet! Permit me to continue speaking. It will be worth it. I promise! Thanks.



Now, check this out… I’m going to insert a couple of verses that most people don’t like to read, because they sound too harsh. But I always tell people, God would rather chastise us, than watch us destroy ourselves. Just remember the key points you read earlier on. Go back and read all of it again, if you must. Copy and paste it into smaller parts, and then share it with others, because it seems as if we’re sometimes forgetting the God we serve, in an attempt to do things our own way.



1 Corinthians 6:9-11 (NIV)-

(9) Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men. (10) nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. (11) And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.



It’s almost as if history is repeating itself all over again. Remember what happened in the garden of Eden? We need to remember, because we sometimes forget our spiritual history. In the garden, God gave Adam and Eve a very specific command. Then beforehand, He told them what would happen if they broke His command. The serpent deceived Adam and Eve. The serpent may go by many other names, but he is the great deceiver himself! (Revelation 12:9, KJV). What was the penalty for disobeying God? Adam and Eve were cast out of God’s presence, and eventually they died. Read Genesis chapters 2 and 3, AND 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 at the same time.



In 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, God gave Paul a very specific message to deliver to the churches. God shared these truths with Paul, then Paul shared God’s words with us. God is incapable of lying, and an apostle’s main role is to uphold the words (or truths) of God. Similar to the events of Genesis chapter 3, we read in 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, that the apostle Paul is warning us to not be deceived. Who has been deceiving mankind since the beginning? Satan, the deceiver himself. Let’s fast forward a little. In 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 God states a command, which is followed by a consequence. God tell us to not be deceived. That is the command. Then, He states that wrongdoers, like the sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, men who have sex with men, thieves, the greedy, drunkards, slanderers and swindlers will not inherit the kingdom of God. In other words, such persons will be cast from the presence of the Lord. Is that the end of God’s instructions to Paul? No. God offers the hope of redemption and salvation, through our Lord Jesus Christ. In 1 Corinthians 6:11, it is revealed that some of Paul’s audience used to engage in these aforementioned lifestyles. So, the question is, who or what changed these people’s lives? Paul says, “But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God” (1 Corinthians 6:11).

Does everyone here remember what Jesus, our Lord, did for us on that cross? What He did on that cross was no simple feat. He died a very excruciating death for me, you, and our loved ones. Please don’t minimize the significance of what He did on that cross. Please, don’t tell your friends and loved ones that because of God’s commandment to love each other, we can now love anyone, according to the desires of our own hearts. Matthew 12:36 states, “I say unto you, that every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment”. Rather, tell them that because of God’s love, He wants to free us from the lies of the deceiver, and through Jesus, He wants to demonstrate to us what perfect love looks like, and through the Holy Spirit, He wants to teach us how to express that love in righteous ways.



I’m going to say something that will anger some, and hurt others. But what I say comes from a source of God’s love and His Word. Those who feel angry, will feel angry because they aren’t ready to receive God’s truth yet. But those who feel hurt, will feel hurt because they know that what I’m saying is God’s truth. So, here it goes…sometimes, some of us, (including me), have unknowingly been doing the work of the deceiver. Yes, I was also deceived, so I can speak from experience. Read 2 Corinthians 11:14 (KJV) with me. It reads, “for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.” Read it over a couple of times, because this is another important truth from God, that God shares with Paul, then Paul shares it with us. Let me expose satan’s character to you, right now! Satan loves to imitate God. He also loves to separate us from the God who created us. He loves when we rebel against God, and he will go through extraordinary, backbreaking lengths, just to get us to doubt and rebel against God. Satan enjoys deceiving us. He loves to manipulate our emotions, simply so that he can introduce false teachings into our hearts. He loves when we question God’s authority and God’s sincerity in our lives. He loves to impersonate God’s love, then teach us false concepts about his version of love. Satan provokes us into viewing God’s character in a negative light, while beautifying his own. I’ve seen him deceive individuals, families, communities, and even entire churches.



Now, let me tell you about the character of God. God actually loves us. That’s basically it! Simple and straight to the point! God loves the apostle Paul. So, He couldn’t leave Paul to die in spiritual ignorance. But instead, God revealed Himself to Paul; firstly through our Lord Jesus Christ, then through the Holy Spirit. When Paul became filled with the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit influenced Paul in a deep, intrinsic way. Has this ever happened to anyone here? If it hasn’t happened to you yet, and you want to experience the presence of the Holy Spirit in your life, then pray, fast and read your bible. Ask God to minister unto you. Ask Him to reveal Himself unto you, through His Holy Spirit. Ask Him to help you to discern Him from other spirits.



Some persons will tell me that their loved ones; who are LGBTQ+ persons, aren’t living in sin, and their loved ones aren’t separated from God. In fact, some persons will tell me, “Kay, I’m a devoted Christian, and I’m an LGBTQ+ person. Some of my best friends and family members are LGBTQ+ persons too, and we’re all very spiritual. We’re spiritual to the point where we can even walk on water. You’re just talking a bunch of nonsense when you’re saying that my loved one’s actions are sinful, and that they are separated from God! Kay, I don’t know what kind of snake oil you’re selling these people, but I’m not buying it!”. Then, I’ll patiently reply, “Thanks for your contribution to our discussion. Can I get my mic back, please, so that I can reply? Thanks. Okay, so I’m also friends with LGBTQ+ persons. One of my best friends is gay. I’m also friends with a mature gay man who lives a permanently, celibate life because his spiritual journey has brought him to that point. I understand that everybody’s circumstances are different, and I certainly don’t have the authority to play judge, jury and executioner. I believe that the term, ‘sin separates us from God’ also speaks about an event which will take place on judgment day. So, yes, we may think that we’re living our best spiritual life now, but if we’re engaging in habitual sin (whatever they may be), and we haven’t repented, and we don’t live by faith, and we don’t allow God’s Holy Spirit to renew us spiritually, then on judgment day, we all run the risk of being permanently separated from God. We run the risk of being cast out from His presence, yet again. Unfortunately, someone is already selling us snake oil, but it’s not God, and it’s not me.” That’s exactly what I would tell them, word-for-word.



I’m certain that the Holy Spirit has reveal Himself to some of us, and He has transformed our lives in the most prolific ways. The transformative power of the Holy Spirit happened to me only after I developed a personal, intimate relationship with God. The Holy Spirit told me that the enemy is attacking my faith daily, and that’s why I need to seek out a personal relationship with Him. God told me that I needed to refresh my mind and spirit by reading the bible regularly. God also encouraged me to fast. The Holy Spirit actually wants to guide us to understand many things in life. God reminded me of a sad reality. He told me that some unbelievers know more about the bible than some members of the church. Even satan himself knows the bible cover to cover, and he tried to use his biblical knowledge to tempt Jesus in the wilderness. Some unbelievers (who know biblical knowledge), don’t believe God’s words, yet they will use that knowledge to argue facts with us. But guess what? At least they know it (or some version of it). So, we need to know it too, cover to cover. Over a period of time, the Holy Spirit has helped me to reshape my spiritual identity. It’s an ongoing process. In the context of 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, God can also do the same for people engaging in fornication, adultery, idolatry, homosexuality, and alcoholism etc. He did it then, so He is more than capable of doing it now.



So, how would I minister unto persons engaging in fornication, adultery, idolatry, homosexuality, alcoholism etc? I’d simply share God’s truth with them, and I’d share it with love. I’d tell them exactly this, “I care about you, and my love for you prevents me from lying to you. God loves us all, and He showed us His love by sending His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ, to die for us. Jesus died so that we wouldn’t feel the sting of eternal damnation and separation from Him. He died to reconnect us with the Father. Jesus loves you so much. He hurts whenever He sees us hurting ourselves and others. He doesn’t want to leave us in our sins. Because of what Jesus did for us, we are offered the gift of redemption and salvation. I want to encourage you to develop a personal relationship with God. Read your bible regularly. If you don’t have one, I’ll give you one. Pray, fast and seek God’s guidance, through the Holy Spirit. The road will be filled with challenges, but God will always be with you to help you overcome them.”



Aside from addressing their spiritual needs, I would address their practical needs, as well. For example, if the person is a habitual fornicator, I would put them on to a support group for persons with sexual addictions. If the person isn’t a habitual fornicator, but is known to fornicate, I would still put them on to a supportive church environment, which would nurture healthy spiritual developments in that person. If the person is an adulterer, then I would connect them to an experienced marriage counselor. If the person is an idolater, then I would connect them to a good church. If the person is an LGBTQ+ person, then I would put them on to an LGBTQ+ person who overcame the lifestyle and who is actively reaching out to others who want to overcome it as well. If the person is an alcoholic, then I would put them on to a good Alcoholics Anonymous support group. You won’t reach everyone, but please, reach out in love. Don’t let fear of rejection prevent you from reaching out. Also, under no circumstance do I stop praying for the people in my life, because I would want them to pray for me too. In all things, seek God’s guidance before ministering to others, regarding God’s Words.



Some people have told me that they aren’t sure if God can help them to overcome their sinful habits. I tell them, I serve a very powerful God, and He is more than able to help them! God started that process in Paul, the apostles, and the early churches, so He is able to do it in this present time, as well. My God created the heavens and the earth, and everything therein, in 6 days. He promised a very old man (Abraham) that his barren wife would bring forth a son, and that through this son, his descendants would become as numerous as the stars in the sky. God fulfilled His promise. He never lies! My God brought the Israelites out of Egypt and parted the Red Sea for them. He led the Israelites through the wilderness. He delivered Daniel from the lion’s den. My God is able to cure any illness and disease. He has the power to subdue demons. He has full authority over life and death. He created life and He can raise the dead. Yes people, we serve a very powerful God who can actually raise the dead, back onto life again! My God is omnipotent (all-powerful); omniscient (all-knowing); and omnipresent (everywhere). So, of course He is more than able to help us to overcome our sinful habits. Don’t forget the God you serve, or His power and authority. Set Him as the authority figure over your life. Remember your spiritual history.



Don’t give up! Be ye Spirit filled. God wants you to fall in love with Him all over again, just like when you fell in love with Him for the very first time. Seek a personal relationship with Him. Read your bible. Pray. Fast. Encounter Him. Let Him teach and lead you. He wants to. Then share Him with others. Read this entire message again, but this time, listen to the song below on repeat, while you read it. May God guide and keep you on your spiritual journey. God bless!

* admin edit *
 

Chris

Administrator
Staff member
That brought an even deeper question to mind - since we’re currently in a fallen state, can any of us really hold our own experiences as the ‘gospel truth’?

We are not to reply on our experiences, we are to rely solely on God’s Word. This is one reason e do not allow dreams, visions, etc. on the forums as we do not allow subjective, emotional, etc. type of things when it comes to interpreting or applying God’s Word.

Now, I’ll ask you this earnest question…. since when is our God in the business of lying to us?

God does not lie. He is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. He changes not. No one on here thinks God lies to us.

Unfortunately, throughout the course of human history, it seems to me that God is the one who keeps getting the shorter end of the stick.

Man always blames God, someone else, etc. for their problems and mistakes. A real truth that many don’t understand is that God does not send people to Hell. People use their free will to choose not to accept God’s remedy for sin in the completed work of Jesus Christ on the Cross. They don’t have to pay for it, they don’t have to earn it, they don’t have to do anything for it is EXCEPT receive and accept Jesus’s work on the Cross for their payment of their sins.

As for LGBTQ people we love them as I have family members that are gay. We do not condemn LGBTQ people here, but we also do not buy into lies like “I’m born this way” or “God loves me just the way I am while being an unrepentant sinner” as those are excuses and are not the truth. We are to contend for the truth, tell people about the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and help them find eternal salvation in Jesus Christ.

On of the biggest problems is that pesky little thing called ”free will” that got us all in the mess to start with. LGBTQ folks commit sexual sins like all the rest of us. Sin is sin. The truth is just ONE sin separates us for all eternity from our holy and righteous Father. This is why it is absolutely essential and important that people come to Jesus Christ for salvation. The Bible tells us there is no other name under Heaven in which to be saved. There is only one way to Heaven – through Jesus Christ.

We speak out about the influence and perversion of LGBTQ alternative lifestyles at Rapture Forums. We are not going to wink, nod, or back slap people into thinking the LGBTQ lifestyle is OK to God. It is NOT. Neither is any other type of sexual sins either. Neither is any sin of any type either.

When we are born again we sealed with the Holy Spirit at the moment of our belief in Jesus. If someone truly believes in Jesus and is born again, they will repent of their sin. Repent means to change your mind about you sins. It does NOT mean stopping of sins. None of us can do that. I don’t care if they were Billy Graham, Billy Sunday, etc. The Bible tells us that there is not ONE that is good. Period. God’s Word settles it all for us here.

But we are not going to stop exposing the LGBTQ’s satanic agenda in trying to pervert our children, we are not going to accept this lifestyle as “normal”, we are not going to accept drag queens trying to “groom” our kids, we are not going to accept pornography and sexually suggestive books in our school libraries, we are not going to accept gay marriage, etc. It is all wrong and it is all sin.

We do not seek to condemn anyone, but we will not compromise. All of us are sinners and sin many, many times every single day. Like I said we will not wink, nod, and accept sin. We must call it what it is. The Bible tells us that Jesus did not come to condemn the world, as the world was already condemned.

We have articles, commentaries, and more to help bring the truth to people trapped in the LGBTQ lifestyle. We even have links to information on the main site that shows people the truth about the LGBTQ lifestyles. See here:

http://www.healthhazardsofhomosexuality.info/

We always pray for people trapped in these destructive lifestyles and will continue to do so. We encourage everyone to pray for their unrepentant and unsaved family members. :pray :thumbup
 

Andy C

Well-Known Member
We are not to reply on our experiences, we are to rely solely on God’s Word. This is one reason e do not allow dreams, visions, etc. on the forums as we do not allow subjective, emotional, etc. type of things when it comes to interpreting or applying God’s Word.



God does not lie. He is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. He changes not. No one on here thinks God lies to us.



Man always blames God, someone else, etc. for their problems and mistakes. A real truth that many don’t understand is that God does not send people to Hell. People use their free will to choose not to accept God’s remedy for sin in the completed work of Jesus Christ on the Cross. They don’t have to pay for it, they don’t have to earn it, they don’t have to do anything for it is EXCEPT receive and accept Jesus’s work on the Cross for their payment of their sins.

As for LGBTQ people we love them as I have family members that are gay. We do not condemn LGBTQ people here, but we also do not buy into lies like “I’m born this way” or “God loves me just the way I am while being an unrepentant sinner” as those are excuses and are not the truth. We are to contend for the truth, tell people about the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and help them find eternal salvation in Jesus Christ.

On of the biggest problems is that pesky little thing called ”free will” that got us all in the mess to start with. LGBTQ folks commit sexual sins like all the rest of us. Sin is sin. The truth is just ONE sin separates us for all eternity from our holy and righteous Father. This is why it is absolutely essential and important that people come to Jesus Christ for salvation. The Bible tells us there is no other name under Heaven in which to be saved. There is only one way to Heaven – through Jesus Christ.

We speak out about the influence and perversion of LGBTQ alternative lifestyles at Rapture Forums. We are not going to wink, nod, or back slap people into thinking the LGBTQ lifestyle is OK to God. It is NOT. Neither is any other type of sexual sins either. Neither is any sin of any type either.

When we are born again we sealed with the Holy Spirit at the moment of our belief in Jesus. If someone truly believes in Jesus and is born again, they will repent of their sin. Repent means to change your mind about you sins. It does NOT mean stopping of sins. None of us can do that. I don’t care if they were Billy Graham, Billy Sunday, etc. The Bible tells us that there is not ONE that is good. Period. God’s Word settles it all for us here.

But we are not going to stop exposing the LGBTQ’s satanic agenda in trying to pervert our children, we are not going to accept this lifestyle as “normal”, we are not going to accept drag queens trying to “groom” our kids, we are not going to accept pornography and sexually suggestive books in our school libraries, we are not going to accept gay marriage, etc. It is all wrong and it is all sin.

We do not seek to condemn anyone, but we will not compromise. All of us are sinners and sin many, many times every single day. Like I said we will not wink, nod, and accept sin. We must call it what it is. The Bible tells us that Jesus did not come to condemn the world, as the world was already condemned.

We have articles, commentaries, and more to help bring the truth to people trapped in the LGBTQ lifestyle. We even have links to information on the main site that shows people the truth about the LGBTQ lifestyles. See here:

http://www.healthhazardsofhomosexuality.info/

We always pray for people trapped in these destructive lifestyles and will continue to do so. We encourage everyone to pray for their unrepentant and unsaved family members. :pray :thumbup
I nominate your response as the best post of the year brother!
 

Jojo4124

Well-Known Member
Some people, on this site, wanted to know how to treat with specific persons; for example, LGBTQ+ persons. Everyone seems to have a different take on the situation. Some people say that LGBTQ+ persons are born that way, and others say it doesn’t matter, just love them and let them live their lives. I agree with the “we should love them” part. Some people say that the LGBTQ+ lifestyle is a sin, and others say it is not. When I asked God for His take on the situation, He reminded me of this one profound truth: He created us, so we have to trust Him, in spite of our own human experiences. That brought an even deeper question to mind - since we’re currently in a fallen state, can any of us really hold our own experiences as the ‘gospel truth’? It breaks my heart when we try to define or redefine what sin is, and what it is not. Sin is any act that separates a person from God (Isaiah 59:2, KJV). I assure you, God isn’t busy debating with His angels whether an alcoholic, or an abusive person, or an idolater, or a sexually immoral person was born that way, or nurtured that way. God is a ‘bigger picture’ kind of God. He’s more focused on how He’s going to save us from sin.



There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death” (Proverbs 14:12, KJV). Read it three times for emphasis….



THIS IS MY PERSONAL TESTIMONY: Some years ago, I fell in love with a man. He said that I was the love of his life. My parents, on the other hand, wept. They warned me about the relationship. You see… I am their only daughter. They love me a lot. They said, “Please, Kay, leave this man alone. He will hurt you, and then he will use you. Trust us!”. I cared for this man a lot. We shared so many significant experiences together, so I thought that if my parents just got to know him, they would accept him. While the man was busy showering me with affection, my parents pleaded with me even more. They even reached out to my church to speak to me, and I was very angry with them for that. I was angry with my church too. Eventually, there came a time when the man began to make a lot of demands in our relationship, but when I couldn’t quite meet those demands, he began to hate me, and his hate intensified towards me. I was confused, so I tried to pacify the situation, by being gentle with him. But he wasn’t having any of it. When things got fully out of control, I ran back to my parents. They scolded me, then they embraced me. This isn’t a made-up story. These events really did happen. I just need you guys to understand something…in the beginning of that relationship, there were two opposing views: I thought the man loved me, but my parents knew he did not. Parents don’t always get it right sometimes. They’re only human. But substitute my parents with God. He is perfect. Now, I’ll ask you this earnest question…. since when is our God in the business of lying to us?



Take a journey, back into the past, with me. How far are we going? Well, we’re going back to the beginning, of course. Back to where it all began… Genesis. Let’s look at the scene where the serpent is tempting Eve in the garden. He cleverly twisted God’s words and Eve’s interpretation of God’s words, and then he deceived her. Then Eve looked at the fruit and saw it was good. She took it, ate it and offered some to her husband, Adam. Do you know what I would like to know? Why didn’t Eve say this to the serpent? - “Yes, this fruit DOES look good, but God told both my husband and me– if you eat the fruit, you will surely die. Now, listen here, serpent! I know God. He created both my husband and me. So, I trust (aka faith) that He wants what’s best for us. I know God, but I don’t know you. Get the hell away from me!”. When we read Genesis 2:17 (NIV), it goes: God said, “But you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.” What happened after Adam and Eve ate the fruit? Well, they got kicked out of the garden, then they lived a hard life outside of the garden, then they died. Did God lie to them? No. Unfortunately, throughout the course of human history, it seems to me that God is the one who keeps getting the shorter end of the stick. Think about this for a second - whenever God issues a command, He always informs us about the consequences beforehand; not after the fact. What I learned from this simple truth is that God is honest at all times. He’s unable to lie.



Okay, let’s leave the book of Genesis and jump ahead a little. Where are we going? Well, we’re going to visit our good friend, the apostle Paul. Now, before I take you to specific verses that Paul wrote, I want to take a few seconds to share some interesting facts about Paul’s life. The apostle Paul (originally named Saul), was born a Jew in Tarsus. He was present when the Jews stoned Stephen to death. While on the road to Damascus, (in pursuit of Christians), Paul had a supernatural encounter with Jesus Himself…but that encounter left Paul blind. But his sight was restored three days later by a man named Ananias, in the city of Damascus. Paul was then baptized, and through this experience, Paul received the Holy Spirit, who helped Paul to develop a personal relationship with God. So, immediately, Paul began to proclaim that Jesus is the messiah and the Son of God. I need you guys to remember everything you just read about Paul. It’s super important, okay. It will come in handy later. Anyways, three years later, Paul met the apostle, Peter, then eventually Jesus’ brother (James), and was henceforth recognized as the 13th apostle.



Now, I’ll tell you something about these apostles. These men were the “original gangster unit” for Christ. They were proxies of God, and they were serious defenders of the faith. They could not afford to slip up when it came to representing God’s Word, because God Himself would hold them accountable for it on judgment day. Apostles were not there to minimize God’s words or contradict it. Their main role was to serve as messengers of God, and to travel to distant lands, preaching the gospel as a means of establishing churches there. By extension, this required them to speak God’s truth, and to do so at all times. Remember that, okay! The apostles successfully accomplished their role, and they were not afraid to die to uphold God’s truth. In fact, all of them (with the exception of John the apostle), died gruesome deaths because they chose to preach God’s truth. They were unafraid, since they knew Jesus was waiting on the other side, to embrace them for their commitment to Him and His Word. Guys, you need to remember everything I said about Paul. Go back and read his testimony again, if you need to.



Have any of you guys ever read Paul’s letters to the early churches? Doesn’t he come across as harsh in a lot of his letters? Yeah, he does. But I am here to reassure you that his admonitions always came from a source of love and God’s truth. And why not? The man deserves all bragging rights, because he has been beaten multiple times by mobs, shipwrecked at sea, shipwrecked onto foreign islands, imprisoned, slandered against and killed for speaking God’s truth. Have any of us gone through all of these disasters, while upholding God’s truth? No? Then we haven’t earned the privilege of misinterpreting and misrepresenting God’s words. Don’t kick or boo me off the stage, just yet! Permit me to continue speaking. It will be worth it. I promise! Thanks.



Now, check this out… I’m going to insert a couple of verses that most people don’t like to read, because they sound too harsh. But I always tell people, God would rather chastise us, than watch us destroy ourselves. Just remember the key points you read earlier on. Go back and read all of it again, if you must. Copy and paste it into smaller parts, and then share it with others, because it seems as if we’re sometimes forgetting the God we serve, in an attempt to do things our own way.



1 Corinthians 6:9-11 (NIV)-

(9) Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men. (10) nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. (11) And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.



It’s almost as if history is repeating itself all over again. Remember what happened in the garden of Eden? We need to remember, because we sometimes forget our spiritual history. In the garden, God gave Adam and Eve a very specific command. Then beforehand, He told them what would happen if they broke His command. The serpent deceived Adam and Eve. The serpent may go by many other names, but he is the great deceiver himself! (Revelation 12:9, KJV). What was the penalty for disobeying God? Adam and Eve were cast out of God’s presence, and eventually they died. Read Genesis chapters 2 and 3, AND 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 at the same time.



In 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, God gave Paul a very specific message to deliver to the churches. God shared these truths with Paul, then Paul shared God’s words with us. God is incapable of lying, and an apostle’s main role is to uphold the words (or truths) of God. Similar to the events of Genesis chapter 3, we read in 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, that the apostle Paul is warning us to not be deceived. Who has been deceiving mankind since the beginning? Satan, the deceiver himself. Let’s fast forward a little. In 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 God states a command, which is followed by a consequence. God tell us to not be deceived. That is the command. Then, He states that wrongdoers, like the sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, men who have sex with men, thieves, the greedy, drunkards, slanderers and swindlers will not inherit the kingdom of God. In other words, such persons will be cast from the presence of the Lord. Is that the end of God’s instructions to Paul? No. God offers the hope of redemption and salvation, through our Lord Jesus Christ. In 1 Corinthians 6:11, it is revealed that some of Paul’s audience used to engage in these aforementioned lifestyles. So, the question is, who or what changed these people’s lives? Paul says, “But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God” (1 Corinthians 6:11).

Does everyone here remember what Jesus, our Lord, did for us on that cross? What He did on that cross was no simple feat. He died a very excruciating death for me, you, and our loved ones. Please don’t minimize the significance of what He did on that cross. Please, don’t tell your friends and loved ones that because of God’s commandment to love each other, we can now love anyone, according to the desires of our own hearts. Matthew 12:36 states, “I say unto you, that every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment”. Rather, tell them that because of God’s love, He wants to free us from the lies of the deceiver, and through Jesus, He wants to demonstrate to us what perfect love looks like, and through the Holy Spirit, He wants to teach us how to express that love in righteous ways.



I’m going to say something that will anger some, and hurt others. But what I say comes from a source of God’s love and His Word. Those who feel angry, will feel angry because they aren’t ready to receive God’s truth yet. But those who feel hurt, will feel hurt because they know that what I’m saying is God’s truth. So, here it goes…sometimes, some of us, (including me), have unknowingly been doing the work of the deceiver. Yes, I was also deceived, so I can speak from experience. Read 2 Corinthians 11:14 (KJV) with me. It reads, “for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.” Read it over a couple of times, because this is another important truth from God, that God shares with Paul, then Paul shares it with us. Let me expose satan’s character to you, right now! Satan loves to imitate God. He also loves to separate us from the God who created us. He loves when we rebel against God, and he will go through extraordinary, backbreaking lengths, just to get us to doubt and rebel against God. Satan enjoys deceiving us. He loves to manipulate our emotions, simply so that he can introduce false teachings into our hearts. He loves when we question God’s authority and God’s sincerity in our lives. He loves to impersonate God’s love, then teach us false concepts about his version of love. Satan provokes us into viewing God’s character in a negative light, while beautifying his own. I’ve seen him deceive individuals, families, communities, and even entire churches.



Now, let me tell you about the character of God. God actually loves us. That’s basically it! Simple and straight to the point! God loves the apostle Paul. So, He couldn’t leave Paul to die in spiritual ignorance. But instead, God revealed Himself to Paul; firstly through our Lord Jesus Christ, then through the Holy Spirit. When Paul became filled with the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit influenced Paul in a deep, intrinsic way. Has this ever happened to anyone here? If it hasn’t happened to you yet, and you want to experience the presence of the Holy Spirit in your life, then pray, fast and read your bible. Ask God to minister unto you. Ask Him to reveal Himself unto you, through His Holy Spirit. Ask Him to help you to discern Him from other spirits.



Some persons will tell me that their loved ones; who are LGBTQ+ persons, aren’t living in sin, and their loved ones aren’t separated from God. In fact, some persons will tell me, “Kay, I’m a devoted Christian, and I’m an LGBTQ+ person. Some of my best friends and family members are LGBTQ+ persons too, and we’re all very spiritual. We’re spiritual to the point where we can even walk on water. You’re just talking a bunch of nonsense when you’re saying that my loved one’s actions are sinful, and that they are separated from God! Kay, I don’t know what kind of snake oil you’re selling these people, but I’m not buying it!”. Then, I’ll patiently reply, “Thanks for your contribution to our discussion. Can I get my mic back, please, so that I can reply? Thanks. Okay, so I’m also friends with LGBTQ+ persons. One of my best friends is gay. I’m also friends with a mature gay man who lives a permanently, celibate life because his spiritual journey has brought him to that point. I understand that everybody’s circumstances are different, and I certainly don’t have the authority to play judge, jury and executioner. I believe that the term, ‘sin separates us from God’ also speaks about an event which will take place on judgment day. So, yes, we may think that we’re living our best spiritual life now, but if we’re engaging in habitual sin (whatever they may be), and we haven’t repented, and we don’t live by faith, and we don’t allow God’s Holy Spirit to renew us spiritually, then on judgment day, we all run the risk of being permanently separated from God. We run the risk of being cast out from His presence, yet again. Unfortunately, someone is already selling us snake oil, but it’s not God, and it’s not me.” That’s exactly what I would tell them, word-for-word.



I’m certain that the Holy Spirit has reveal Himself to some of us, and He has transformed our lives in the most prolific ways. The transformative power of the Holy Spirit happened to me only after I developed a personal, intimate relationship with God. The Holy Spirit told me that the enemy is attacking my faith daily, and that’s why I need to seek out a personal relationship with Him. God told me that I needed to refresh my mind and spirit by reading the bible regularly. God also encouraged me to fast. The Holy Spirit actually wants to guide us to understand many things in life. God reminded me of a sad reality. He told me that some unbelievers know more about the bible than some members of the church. Even satan himself knows the bible cover to cover, and he tried to use his biblical knowledge to tempt Jesus in the wilderness. Some unbelievers (who know biblical knowledge), don’t believe God’s words, yet they will use that knowledge to argue facts with us. But guess what? At least they know it (or some version of it). So, we need to know it too, cover to cover. Over a period of time, the Holy Spirit has helped me to reshape my spiritual identity. It’s an ongoing process. In the context of 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, God can also do the same for people engaging in fornication, adultery, idolatry, homosexuality, and alcoholism etc. He did it then, so He is more than capable of doing it now.



So, how would I minister unto persons engaging in fornication, adultery, idolatry, homosexuality, alcoholism etc? I’d simply share God’s truth with them, and I’d share it with love. I’d tell them exactly this, “I care about you, and my love for you prevents me from lying to you. God loves us all, and He showed us His love by sending His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ, to die for us. Jesus died so that we wouldn’t feel the sting of eternal damnation and separation from Him. He died to reconnect us with the Father. Jesus loves you so much. He hurts whenever He sees us hurting ourselves and others. He doesn’t want to leave us in our sins. Because of what Jesus did for us, we are offered the gift of redemption and salvation. I want to encourage you to develop a personal relationship with God. Read your bible regularly. If you don’t have one, I’ll give you one. Pray, fast and seek God’s guidance, through the Holy Spirit. The road will be filled with challenges, but God will always be with you to help you overcome them.”



Aside from addressing their spiritual needs, I would address their practical needs, as well. For example, if the person is a habitual fornicator, I would put them on to a support group for persons with sexual addictions. If the person isn’t a habitual fornicator, but is known to fornicate, I would still put them on to a supportive church environment, which would nurture healthy spiritual developments in that person. If the person is an adulterer, then I would connect them to an experienced marriage counselor. If the person is an idolater, then I would connect them to a good church. If the person is an LGBTQ+ person, then I would put them on to an LGBTQ+ person who overcame the lifestyle and who is actively reaching out to others who want to overcome it as well. If the person is an alcoholic, then I would put them on to a good Alcoholics Anonymous support group. You won’t reach everyone, but please, reach out in love. Don’t let fear of rejection prevent you from reaching out. Also, under no circumstance do I stop praying for the people in my life, because I would want them to pray for me too. In all things, seek God’s guidance before ministering to others, regarding God’s Words.



Some people have told me that they aren’t sure if God can help them to overcome their sinful habits. I tell them, I serve a very powerful God, and He is more than able to help them! God started that process in Paul, the apostles, and the early churches, so He is able to do it in this present time, as well. My God created the heavens and the earth, and everything therein, in 6 days. He promised a very old man (Abraham) that his barren wife would bring forth a son, and that through this son, his descendants would become as numerous as the stars in the sky. God fulfilled His promise. He never lies! My God brought the Israelites out of Egypt and parted the Red Sea for them. He led the Israelites through the wilderness. He delivered Daniel from the lion’s den. My God is able to cure any illness and disease. He has the power to subdue demons. He has full authority over life and death. He created life and He can raise the dead. Yes people, we serve a very powerful God who can actually raise the dead, back onto life again! My God is omnipotent (all-powerful); omniscient (all-knowing); and omnipresent (everywhere). So, of course He is more than able to help us to overcome our sinful habits. Don’t forget the God you serve, or His power and authority. Set Him as the authority figure over your life. Remember your spiritual history.



Don’t give up! Be ye Spirit filled. God wants you to fall in love with Him all over again, just like when you fell in love with Him for the very first time. Seek a personal relationship with Him. Read your bible. Pray. Fast. Encounter Him. Let Him teach and lead you. He wants to. Then share Him with others. Read this entire message again, but this time, listen to the song below on repeat, while you read it. May God guide and keep you on your spiritual journey. God bless!

* admin edit *
Kay Ming, ty for your encouragement to seek God for everything.

I was married to a man who was a children's pastor who had no empathy and narcissistic tendencies. It is easy to be drawn to these charismatic people who claim to know God, but once married they dont spend time with Him or His Word (yes, my "preacher" husband never sought God or prayed with me and our children and was abusive to us. It does happen. He loved the wives submit Bible verses but ignored the "love your wives as Christ loved the church and gave Himself up for her" verse. Narcissistic abuse is insidious and rarely acknowkedged by the Church because narcs have such a charming nature and they serve in such a way as to bring accolades and praise of people to themselves (not God)...but sheep are easily fooled, as I was, because unless you've had a narc in your life, you dont understand them n how satan uses some people in your life to try to destroy you n your faith. 2 Timothy 3 describes such people n tells us to have nothing to do with such self consumed people who claim to be Christ followers.

I know this wasnt the main point of your post, but just wanted to say that I can relate to being married to a wolf. Who was in the ministry. There are a lot of wolves in sheep clothing in the church...the Bible warns us about this. Thats why it is important to know the Word...and also to avoid these people. Not to argue with them (Proverbs says not to argue with a fool or you will appear to be a fool too) and not to codependently try to get them to see the light...people devoid of empathy feel that they do nothing wrong. I wish the Church would recognize abuse more and realize that abusers are resistant tov stop abusing as they enjoy the benefits of it. For me to continue to accept someone's abuse actually enables them in their sin. But most of the pastors I worked with encouraged people to remain in the abuse (many abusive people give lots of money to the church...so pastors are reluctant to address it...or to disciplin Biblically. So sin remains in the church.
 

kay ming

New Member
Kay Ming, ty for your encouragement to seek God for everything.

I was married to a man who was a children's pastor who had no empathy and narcissistic tendencies. It is easy to be drawn to these charismatic people who claim to know God, but once married they dont spend time with Him or His Word (yes, my "preacher" husband never sought God or prayed with me and our children and was abusive to us. It does happen. He loved the wives submit Bible verses but ignored the "love your wives as Christ loved the church and gave Himself up for her" verse. Narcissistic abuse is insidious and rarely acknowkedged by the Church because narcs have such a charming nature and they serve in such a way as to bring accolades and praise of people to themselves (not God)...but sheep are easily fooled, as I was, because unless you've had a narc in your life, you dont understand them n how satan uses some people in your life to try to destroy you n your faith. 2 Timothy 3 describes such people n tells us to have nothing to do with such self consumed people who claim to be Christ followers.

I know this wasnt the main point of your post, but just wanted to say that I can relate to being married to a wolf. Who was in the ministry. There are a lot of wolves in sheep clothing in the church...the Bible warns us about this. Thats why it is important to know the Word...and also to avoid these people. Not to argue with them (Proverbs says not to argue with a fool or you will appear to be a fool too) and not to codependently try to get them to see the light...people devoid of empathy feel that they do nothing wrong. I wish the Church would recognize abuse more and realize that abusers are resistant tov stop abusing as they enjoy the benefits of it. For me to continue to accept someone's abuse actually enables them in their sin. But most of the pastors I worked with encouraged people to remain in the abuse (many abusive people give lots of money to the church...so pastors are reluctant to address it...or to disciplin Biblically. So sin remains in the church.
Hey Jojo. May God guide us all to be the people we need to be. In spite of our painful experiences, the beautiful thing is that God's love never fails us. God bless.
 

Matthew6:33

Withstand in the evil day. Eph 6:13
So, yes, we may think that we’re living our best spiritual life now, but if we’re engaging in habitual sin (whatever they may be), and we haven’t repented, and we don’t live by faith, and we don’t allow God’s Holy Spirit to renew us spiritually, then on judgment day, we all run the risk of being permanently separated from God. We run the risk of being cast out from His presence, yet again.
Are you addressing unbelievers or backslidden Christians here? It is an important distinction and was not clear.

Thank you for posting. Welcome to RF.
 
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