South African president blames NATO for Russia-Ukraine war

Chris

Administrator
Staff member
South African president blames NATO for Russia-Ukraine war
Kremlin said that Russia was putting colossal energy into talks on a possible peace deal with Ukraine.
By REUTERS, GADI ZAIG, JERUSALEM POST STAFF
Published: MARCH 17, 2022

South African President Cyril Ramaphosa on Thursday blamed NATO for the war in Ukraine and said he would resist calls to condemn Russia, in comments that cast doubt over whether he would be accepted by Ukraine or the West as a mediator. "The war could have been avoided if NATO had heeded the warnings from amongst its own leaders and officials over the years that its eastward expansion would lead to greater, not less, instability in the region," Ramaphosa said in response to questions in parliament. But he added that South Africa "cannot condone the use of force and violation of international law" - an apparent reference to Russia's Feb. 24 invasion of Ukraine.

Ramaphosa also revealed that Putin had assured him personally that negotiations were making progress. The South African leader said he had not yet talked with Ukraine's president Volodymyr Zelenskyy, but that he wanted to. On Friday, Ramaphosa said South Africa had been asked to mediate in the Russia-Ukraine conflict. He did not say who had asked him to intervene.

more.............. https://www.jpost.com/international/article-701571
 

twerpv

Well-Known Member
Completely false. First of all, Ukraine doesn't have nukes. Second, there was no military build up of foreign forces in Ukraine. Lastly, and most importantly, just because a country next to you makes allies with a country you don't like, doesn't give you the 'fight' to invade it.
 

twerpv

Well-Known Member
Well..Turkey didn't have nukes either, before they joined NATO. Now there are approx 50 nuclear missiles at the U.S. Incirlik Air Base in Turkey. Zelensky clearly wanted NATO membership at one point. Who's to say another 50 wouldn't have ended up in Ukraine ?
“wanted”….”wouldn’t have”…. Don’t equal DO. I may be in the minority here but there was no justification for Russia to invade Ukraine. Not to mention that nukes are a defensive deterrent to say, oh I don’t know, being invaded.
 

GHoe

Well-Known Member
You're right "wouldn't have" is future tense, and doesnt equal "do" (present tense). Whether it's right or not, "wouldnt have" is likely why Russia invaded Ukraine (possible future issues whether the threats perceived by Russia are agreed upon or not).

That's all anyone is saying. That statement btw is void of taking sides or justifying any actions. It's an analytical approach of viewing what has occurred, that's it.
 

DanLMP

Well-Known Member
My opinion:
Ramaphosa is correct. NATO is/was poking the bear.

Twerpv is correct. That didn't give Putin the right to invade Ukraine.

In a previous thread, I think, there were quotes from Putin after the dissolution of the USSR, in which he said that he wanted to work with the west to reinvigorate Russia and become a part of the western club. It would have been great if that could have occurred but I think there was too much animosity and distrust built up by the west against the USSR, who the west still considered Russia to be with a new name.

Zelenskyy is no angel. He too is a graduate of the WEF school for young leaders. So is Putin. That's an interesting dynamic.

Zelenskyy is being portrayed as a new world leader. I just saw a political cartoon saying as much. For those like us who are awaiting an anti-Christ figure...things that make you say yowzaa.

Putin has just cashed in all of his relationship chips with the western world. He has also reinvigorated NATO and has given them a revitalized reason to exist. Previously I was wondering how a "ten nation confederacy" could come out of Europe, especially considering how feckless they had become. Assuming those prophecies describing this confederacy are talking about NATO/the EU, I wonder no more.

The US, thanks to Biden and his handlers, have wiped out our position in the world. We are now a second class country with a big military. As planned.

The next step in the plan is to crash the world economy and continue with the take over of personal freedoms.
 

twerpv

Well-Known Member
BTW, I want to ‘say’ that I appreciate we can disagree and have ‘arguments’ and still be aligned with our faith. End of the day we all love Christ and that is our focus.
 

RestInHim

Well-Known Member
“wanted”….”wouldn’t have”…. Don’t equal DO. I may be in the minority here but there was no justification for Russia to invade Ukraine. Not to mention that nukes are a defensive deterrent to say, oh I don’t know, being invaded.

In Dec. 2021 Putin was urging the Ukraine to give an answer on their security concerns. Also, there we're numerous back and forth talks about the Minsk agreements which were a series of international agreements which sought to end the war in the Donbas region of Ukraine.

I want to ask why no one sees the 14,000 Russian lives in this area that have been lost to a war by the Ukraine government/Neo-Nazis (mostly) in the past 8 years. The U.S. has been funding training for these groups since 2015 and U.S. Congress in 2015 removed a ban on funding Neo-Nazi groups like Azov Battalion.

In late 2021, the US was one of just two countries to vetoa United Nations draft resolution combating the glorification of Nazism, neo-Nazism and other practices that contribute to fueling contemporary forms of racism. The other was Ukraine. Both countries have consistently voted against this resolution every single year since 2014.

Evil is evil no matter how one throws it.... I don't care which side of the fence one is on. In my opinion this war may not have started had NATO kept the agreement not to continue inching closer to Russia and had the war ended in Donbas.

Civilian casualties as well as military casualties are all heart wrenching no matter who or where they are from. It's the tax payers that pay for these wars run by megalomaniacs for their own evil agendas. I know enough that here in the West that the U.S. considers itself to be an Empire that is doing the world a favor by sticking it's nose where it doesn't belong often times. It's perfectly o.k. to cause all manner of :poop in other countries. I am not at all saying any negative to those who join any military force I do believe there are some who are genuinely fighting for good.

Again, I am not American and believe me when I say I believe my Country is just as corrupt as the U.S. government! What the U.S. does, Canada usually follows suit. But, let us all not forget about the loss of many civilian lives over decades by doing so. Like in March of 1999, the U.S. led NATO, unleashing a ruthless bombing campaign against the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia for 78 days, killing at least 2,500 innocent civilians and injuring around 10,000 people, most of them civilians. The number of innocent civilians killed over the past 2 decades can be estimated between 22,000 to 48,000 from countries such as Afghanistan, Somalia, Syria, Iraq.

There is much more I could say about Canada and the U.S. Many, too many lives are being lost to wars all over the world.
 
Top