Seventh Day Adventist

pythons

Member
At the end of the day - the SDA teaching was:

Ellen White, Review and Herald, Jan 14, 1909
We are to be partakers of knowledge. As I have seen pictures representing Satan coming to Christ in the wilderness of temptation in the form of a hideous monster, I have thought, How little the artists knew of the Bible! Before his fall, Satan was, next to Christ, the highest ANGEL in heaven

Perhaps that's the answer to the question I've been asking - about what it is about the Trinity Doctrine as taught by the Baptists the SDA's believe is unbiblical. I could be as simple as that.

Baptist Statement

The Lord our God is but one only living and true God; whose subsistence is in and of himself, infinite in being and perfection; whose essence cannot be comprehended by any but himself; a most pure spirit, invisible, without body, parts, or passions, who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; who is immutable, immense, eternal, incomprehensible, almighty, every way infinite, most holy, most wise, most free, most absolute; working all things according to the counsel of his own immutable and most righteous will for his own glory; most loving, gracious, merciful, long-suffering, abundant in goodness and truth, forgiving iniquity, transgression, and sin; the rewarder of them that diligently seek him, and withal most just and terrible in his judgments, hating all sin, and who will by no means clear the guilty.

Lutheran:
Our Churches, with common consent, do teach that the decree of the Council of Nicaea concerning the Unity of the Divine Essence and concerning the Three Persons, is true and to be believed without any doubting; that is to say, there is one Divine Essence which is called and which is God: eternal, without body, without parts, of infinite power, wisdom, and goodness, the Maker and Preserver of all things, visible and invisible; and yet there are three Persons, of the same essence and power, who also are coeternal, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. And the term “person” they use as the Fathers have used it, to signify, not a part or quality in another, but that which subsists of itself. They condemn all heresies which have sprung up against this article, as the Manichaeans, who assumed two principles, one Good and the other Evil: also the Valentinians, Arians, Eunomians, Mohammedans, and all such.
 

annieforjesus

Well-Known Member
Pythons, the first thought I have is, now just who is it that doesn't understand the Bible?... I'd say it's White....Satan was an angel, yes, But he is a created being!
No created being even comes close to the Creator...So, he was Never next to Christ..never. I'm not saying that Satan was not exquisite and special..we know that he was....whatever power that he has was given to him by God, our Creator..
 

annieforjesus

Well-Known Member
I wanted to add that in John chapter 14, Jesus was telling the disciples about leaving them and he referred to the prince of this world is coming, but he has no power over me...so "Next to" is a great misrepresentation, I think.
 

Everlasting Life

Through Faith in Jesus
The passage below gives great perspective of the VAST difference between even the mightiest angels and the Lord (which by the way gives answer as to why angels are not to be worshiped - including the fallen ones, but only the Lord)


All heaven will praise your great wonders, Lord;
myriads of angels will praise you for your faithfulness.
For who in all of heaven can compare with the Lord?
What mightiest angel is anything like the Lord?
The highest angelic powers stand in awe of God.
He is far more awesome than all who surround his throne.


Psalm 89:5-7


In this context we see again that Jesus Christ is one of great authority, even above the angels:

Don’t you realize that I could ask my Father for thousands of angels to protect us, and he would send them instantly? Matthew 26:53

“But when the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit upon his glorious throne. Matthew 25:31

For the Son of Man will come with his angels in the glory of his Father and will judge all people according to their deeds. Matthew 16:27

Then everyone will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds with great power and glory. And he will send out his angels to gather his chosen ones from all over the world—from the farthest ends of the earth and heaven. Matthew 13:26-27

In regards to Jesus referencing "his angels" it's interesting to note that the phrase is also used in regards to the Father and "His angels" in Revelation which denotes that only one in heaven with great authority would have "his angels":

All who are victorious will be clothed in white. I will never erase their names from the Book of Life, but I will announce before my Father and his angels that they are mine. Revelation 3:5





Then I looked again, and I heard the voices of thousands and millions of angels around the throne and of the living beings and the elders. And they sang in a mighty chorus:

“Worthy is the Lamb who was slaughtered—
to receive power and riches
and wisdom and strength
and honor and glory and blessing.”


And then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea. They sang:

“Blessing and honor and glory and power
belong to the one sitting on the throne
and to the Lamb forever and ever.”


And the four living beings said, “Amen!” And the twenty-four elders fell down and worshiped the Lamb.

Revelation 5:11-14


Below is almost a kind of parallel passage in Revelation 7, one will note that the term Lamb and God are almost used interchangeably but keeping disctinction of God the Father and God the Son, the Lamb. Vs 15 speaks of God's throne, then he who sits on the throne, then in vs 17, the Lamb on the throne:


After this I saw a vast crowd, too great to count, from every nation and tribe and people and language, standing in front of the throne and before the Lamb. They were clothed in white robes and held palm branches in their hands. 10 And they were shouting with a great roar,

“Salvation comes from our God who sits on the throne
and from the Lamb!”


11 And all the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living beings. And they fell before the throne with their faces to the ground and worshiped God. 12 They sang,

“Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom
and thanksgiving and honor
and power and strength belong to our God
forever and ever! Amen.”


13 Then one of the twenty-four elders asked me, “Who are these who are clothed in white? Where did they come from?”


14 And I said to him, “Sir, you are the one who knows.”

Then he said to me, “These are the ones who died in[a] the great tribulation.[b] They have washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb and made them white.



15 “That is why they stand in front of God’s throne
and serve him day and night in his Temple.
And he who sits on the throne
will give them shelter.
16 They will never again be hungry or thirsty;
they will never be scorched by the heat of the sun.
17 For the Lamb on the throne[c]
will be their Shepherd.
He will lead them to springs of life-giving water.
And God will wipe every tear from their eyes.”


Revelation 7:9-17


Below are phrases that Jesus Christ used when He was on earth and He directly refers to Himself as God:

I heard a loud shout from the throne, saying, “Look, God’s home is now among his people! He will live with them, and they will be his people. God himself will be with them. He will wipe every tear from their eyes, and there will be no more death or sorrow or crying or pain. All these things are gone forever.”


And the one sitting on the throne said, “Look, I am making everything new!” And then he said to me, “Write this down, for what I tell you is trustworthy and true.” And he also said, “It is finished! I am the Alpha and the Omega—the Beginning and the End. To all who are thirsty I will give freely from the springs of the water of life. All who are victorious will inherit all these blessings, and I will be their God, and they will be my children.

Revelation 21:3-7


On the last day, the climax of the festival, Jesus stood and shouted to the crowds, “Anyone who is thirsty may come to me! Anyone who believes in me may come and drink! For the Scriptures declare, ‘Rivers of living water will flow from his heart.’” (When he said “living water,” he was speaking of the Spirit, who would be given to everyone believing in him. But the Spirit had not yet been given, because Jesus had not yet entered into his glory.) John 7:37-39


And what scripture is Jesus quoting? Isaiah 55 and take note, this is actually Jesus talking and in this passage, vs 5 He calls Himself God!!


“Is anyone thirsty?
Come and drink—
even if you have no money!
Come, take your choice of wine or milk—
it’s all free!
2 Why spend your money on food that does not give you strength?
Why pay for food that does you no good?
Listen to me, and you will eat what is good.
You will enjoy the finest food.


3 “Come to me with your ears wide open.
Listen, and you will find life.
I will make an everlasting covenant with you.
I will give you all the unfailing love I promised to David.
4 See how I used him to display my power among the peoples.
I made him a leader among the nations.
5 You also will command nations you do not know,
and peoples unknown to you will come running to obey,
because
I, the Lord your God,
the Holy One of Israel, have made you glorious.

Isaiah 55:1-5

In Revelation 1 it's stated again that Jesus is God:

.....Grace and peace to you from the one who is, who always was, and who is still to come; from the sevenfold Spirit before his throne; and from Jesus Christ. He is the faithful witness to these things, the first to rise from the dead, and the ruler of all the kings of the world.

All glory to him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by shedding his blood for us. He has made us a Kingdom of priests for God his Father. All glory and power to him forever and ever! Amen.



Look! He comes with the clouds of heaven.
And everyone will see him—
even those who pierced him.
And all the nations of the world
will mourn for him.
Yes! Amen!


I am the Alpha and the Omega—the beginning and the end,” says the Lord God. “I am the one who is, who always was, and who is still to come—the Almighty One. vs 4-8


And finally Hebrews lays to rest this idea that Jesus was an angel, but rather God calls Jesus Lord:

Long ago God spoke many times and in many ways to our ancestors through the prophets. And now in these final days, he has spoken to us through his Son. God promised everything to the Son as an inheritance, and through the Son he created the universe. The Son radiates God’s own glory and expresses the very character of God, and he sustains everything by the mighty power of his command. When he had cleansed us from our sins, he sat down in the place of honor at the right hand of the majestic God in heaven. This shows that the Son is far greater than the angels, just as the name God gave him is greater than their names.


The Son Is Greater Than the Angels

For God never said to any angel what he said to Jesus:

“You are my Son.
Today I have become your Father.”
God also said,

“I will be his Father,
and he will be my Son.”

And when he brought his supreme Son into the world, God said,

“Let all of God’s angels worship him.”

Regarding the angels, he says,

“He sends his angels like the winds,
his servants like flames of fire.”

But to the Son he says,

“Your throne, O God, endures forever and ever.
You rule with a scepter of justice.
You love justice and hate evil.
Therefore, O God, your God has anointed you,
pouring out the oil of joy on you more than on anyone else.”[g]

He also says to the Son,

“In the beginning, Lord, you laid the foundation of the earth
and made the heavens with your hands.
They will perish, but you remain forever.
They will wear out like old clothing.
You will fold them up like a cloak
and discard them like old clothing.
But you are always the same;
you will live forever.”

And God never said to any of the angels,

“Sit in the place of honor at my right hand
until I humble your enemies,
making them a footstool under your feet.”

Therefore, angels are only servants—spirits sent to care for people who will inherit salvation.


Hebrews 1:1-14


Psalm 110 is one of the passages quoted here:

The Lord said to my Lord,
“Sit in the place of honor at my right hand
until I humble your enemies,
making them a footstool under your feet.”

The Lord will extend your powerful kingdom from Jerusalem;
you will rule over your enemies.
When you go to war,
your people will serve you willingly.
You are arrayed in holy garments,
and your strength will be renewed each day like the morning dew.

The Lord has taken an oath and will not break his vow:
“You are a priest forever in the order of Melchizedek.”


vs 1-4
 
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pythons

Member
Well, at the very least we know who would be behind trying to diminish Jesus Christ. :sad

Yes, agreed.

There is no doubt Lucifer was defecating foul Doctrines into the ears and mouths of the early SDA Pioneers. As a young unpopular girl Ellen would have suffered many indignities at the hands of her contemporaries and I'm pretty sure she was intoxicated with joy when suddenly she found herself drowning in favor and respect within a community of people (albeit a heretical community that repudiated the Trinity). The icing on the cake would have been the head anti-Trinitarian (James White) found Ellen sexually attractive and proposed marriage to her. It would have been in that context that Ellen White affirmed heretical teachings by claiming God Almighty showed her that those same heretical Doctrines were Bible truth.
 

Psalm37v4

Hated and laughed at by the world but loved by God
I just wanted to add that there are SDA churches who reject Ellen White’s teachings but still believe in soul sleep, Saturday worship, etc. I’m not sure but I think “Amazing Facts” and Doug Batchelor is an example of an SDA church that rejects her teachings.
 

pythons

Member
I just wanted to add that there are SDA churches who reject Ellen White’s teachings but still believe in soul sleep, Saturday worship, etc. I’m not sure but I think “Amazing Facts” and Doug Batchelor is an example of an SDA church that rejects her teachings.

What you say is possible I suppose. I know that years ago, Doug Batchelor had a satellite webpage through Oregon State University, it sold Amazing facts DVD's and also hosted a discussion forum. Early in my Apologetic career I had a debate on that forum and at that time those SDA's who were selling Doug's DVD's and moderating the forum were definitely Anti-Trinitarian.

The early SDA's were adamant that Father God had flesh, rectum, liver, basically EVERY organ, member and part of a perfect hominid human man. The SDA Church was founded upon those specific beliefs of a flesh Father. Below is there teaching on the subject.

"OF late the question has repeatedly come to me, Does it make any real difference whether we believe in the personality of God, as long as we believe in God? My answer invariably is, It depends altogether upon the standpoint from which we view it. If from the Spiritualist's, ,the Christian Scientist's, the Universalist's, or if from the standpoint of any other " ist " or " ism," it makes but little or no difference. But from the standpoint of Seventh-day Adventists it makes all the difference in the world. No man who is a Seventh-day Adventist can understandingly take that position; neither can 'a Seventh-day Adventist 'hold that position for a moment. In it is involved a denial of the " Father and the Son," the law of Moses, the prophets, the psalms, the holy angels, the personality of the devil, and all that is according to sound doctrine." page 9 of:
https://documents.adventistarchives.org/Periodicals/RH/RH19031008-V80-40.pdf
(personality of God article).

The early Adventists believed that Father God consisted of "parts" down to each individual organ required to sustain a living human man. Thus it was taught that God actually smelled the sacrifice with real nostrils, savored a sacrificial meal by taste buds and raw apatite, etc. The Adventists while Ellen White was alive lambasted the Baptists, Methodists, Lutherans, Catholics & Greek Orthodox for claiming in their Creeds and Doctrinal Statements that God (which SDA's believed to be the Father only) was spirit and didn't contain body or parts.

To settle any doubts I'm not reflecting SDA belief here I urge all to read the following article in the Sabbath Herald: page one, "The Personality of God".

https://documents.adventistarchives.org/Periodicals/RH/RH18780905-V52-11.pdf

That article spells it out rather bluntly.
 

Trudy Wingate

New Member
Some of these groups look attractive on their face. Some of them, perhaps all of them, have some good -- but lost -- people in their flocks. They are still cult groups. Beware of them, and give them a wide detour.
 

Psalm37v4

Hated and laughed at by the world but loved by God
I know this is an old thread, but I thought I'd share a few other things....
There are some SDA churches out there that reject most if not all of EGW's teachings, but still promote false doctrines like Soul Sleep, Sabbath keeping, etc. When I lived in Albany, NY there was a preacher who claimed he wasn't part of the SDA but still taught the doctrines I listed. Also, the shows "Amazing Facts" and "It Is Written" promote SDA doctrines.
I knew a woman who was a follower of the former SDA preacher I mentioned. It took me a few months to discern it, but I discovered she was promoting the same things they do. She also stated we should learn to speak Hebrew.
Be VERY careful folks.
 

pythons

Member
It is a very different group of folks for sure! I've met a couple of very smart and Biblically knowledgeable SDA's (one SDA Pastor in particular) who was rather frank in admitting that Ellen White was not a theologian and unfortunately taught heresy to her flock. I think there is an internal debate going on within the SDA Church as to the continuing status of Ellen White as there have been some additional discoveries about Ellen White that would make many SDA's question her traditional status of a prophet - things that would be jaw dropping for SDA's. Such as:

Google search videos for: "Ellen White and the Apocrypha" (SDA Q&A)

What you will see shows Ellen White used the Apocrypha heavily in her writings.
 

ItIsFinished!

Blood bought child of the King of kings.
It is a very different group of folks for sure! I've met a couple of very smart and Biblically knowledgeable SDA's (one SDA Pastor in particular) who was rather frank in admitting that Ellen White was not a theologian and unfortunately taught heresy to her flock. I think there is an internal debate going on within the SDA Church as to the continuing status of Ellen White as there have been some additional discoveries about Ellen White that would make many SDA's question her traditional status of a prophet - things that would be jaw dropping for SDA's. Such as:

Google search videos for: "Ellen White and the Apocrypha" (SDA Q&A)

What you will see shows Ellen White used the Apocrypha heavily in her writings.
Yeah she was a false teacher and wannabe prophetess of God.
 

paul289

Well-Known Member
I only discovered Amazing Facts at the gym because it was on, so I only got casual glimpses of Doug Batchelor's theology. For the most part, it was interesting stuff, but I got a bit concerned when he claimed that the dead in hell do not stay there forever, because Sodom didn't burn forever, and Sodom was a type of hell. Eventually, he says, they will have paid their dues and can come up to heaven. But that violates God's declaration that hell is a place of everlasting torment. That's when I decided to not listen to him. Didn't even realize he was SDA, but I did find it odd that he was so proud of the massive new building they built. Also, just today found out that a Bible reference site I've used a few times is post-tribulational and buys into the Darby lie.
 

ItIsFinished!

Blood bought child of the King of kings.
I only discovered Amazing Facts at the gym because it was on, so I only got casual glimpses of Doug Batchelor's theology. For the most part, it was interesting stuff, but I got a bit concerned when he claimed that the dead in hell do not stay there forever, because Sodom didn't burn forever, and Sodom was a type of hell. Eventually, he says, they will have paid their dues and can come up to heaven. But that violates God's declaration that hell is a place of everlasting torment. That's when I decided to not listen to him. Didn't even realize he was SDA, but I did find it odd that he was so proud of the massive new building they built. Also, just today found out that a Bible reference site I've used a few times is post-tribulational and buys into the Darby lie.
Well , those in Hell are only there temporarliy.
After The Great White Throne Judgment , they and Hell are placed into The Lake of Fire.
The final eternal place for the unjust.
 

Set free 47

Well-Known Member
What I mainly see the SDA as putting its members back under the Law of Moses. They are not alone; other churches today do the same thing, putting what we do at the forefront instead what Christ has done for us. See Galatians chapters 1 thru 3.
 
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