Seals, Trumpets, and Bowls

[Rocky R.]

I wonder if the bowl judgements are poured out just days before our Lord Jesus’s return. If all the water in the world is turned to blood, then the max remaining time for people is three or four days.

I'm pretty sure the LORD has His ways of sustaining and providing for His own. What if the blood suddenly turns to water once a believer scoops some in their hands, or collects some in a bucket or bottle? The Trib saints can always pray and ask God to turn the blood to water before they consume it. But if He lets them die, then that might be better for them than living through the Tribulation and getting very, very, very old during the Millennium.

 

[Ghoti Ichthus]

I'm pretty sure the LORD has His ways of sustaining and providing for His own. What if the blood suddenly turns to water once a believer scoops some in their hands, or collects some in a bucket or bottle? The Trib saints can always pray and ask God to turn the blood to water before they consume it. But if He lets them die, then that might be better for them than living through the Tribulation and getting very, very, very old during the Millennium.

There is precedent for The Lord miraculously providing sustenance for His own. Manna from Heaven is the first thing that comes to mind.

 

[Chris]

There is precedent for 8

However, unless God allows the 144,000 Jews to get killed, and there are a lot more people killed/die during the Tribulation than what is written in Revelation, 8 is obviously way, way too low.


Really, really gross approximation:


Revelation 6:8, 1/4 of the world's population
Revelation 9:18, 1/3 of the world's population
Revelation 11:13, 7000


*Assumptions*
World population 7,777,972, 600
Christians (raptured before the Tribulation) (1/3 of the population) 2,592,657,533
Remaining world population at the beginning of the Tribulation 5,185,315,067
25 percent 1,296,328,767
Remaining 3,888,986,300
33.3 percent 1,295,032,438
Remaining 2,593,953,862
7000
Remaining before Armageddon 2,593,946,862


Sources:

World population (Population Clock)
https://www.census.gov/popclock/

World Population Review
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/most-christian-countries


PS; And there are probably math mistakes, as well

Those numbers are from a couple of God's direct judgements. What about the other 18 judgments? How many more are killed from disease, animals, wars, the AC, etc. we just can't know?

I just know that if Jesus does not return when He is supposed to and things played out there would be no flesh left. How long it would take to play out after 7 years I don't know.

I don't have the mind of God, none of us here do, so all we can do is speculate for whatever it is worth.

I would just personally think that 2.5 billion people left is very high with all that will be going on during that 7 years. Medical supplies, food, water, power, etc. are going to be in very short supply during the 7 year Tribulation period.

Some people out there (I'm not talking about you) probably think life is going to go on as normal so that they get a good night's sleep, get up take a shower, eat breakfast, drive to work, works 8 hours, go by the grocery store after work, go home cook dinner, watch TV, and then go to bed. Get up tomorrow and do all over again. I don't really think that is how it is going to work for 7 years. With all these judgments taking place, I think it is going to be really different. I don't think we can really understand the domino effect of having people so many people die. Who is going to be left to run the power grid, make medicines, get food to stores, maintain law and order, etc. when terrifying judgments are falling all over the world? I think it is going to be bad. Really bad.

There's a couple places offhand where the Bible mentions that people will have their hearts fail for what is coming upon the earth. The bible mentions people not repenting of their murders, etc. Lawlessness and panic will be the order of the day. It's going to be bad.

I think some above mentioned 500,000,000 to 1,000,000,000 worldwide would seem more likely. I would guess more toward the lower figure, but that is JMHO.

I'm just glad we won't be here to see and live it.

 

[Ghoti Ichthus]

I agree that 2.5B people remaining is probably high, but I didn't want to presume to insert a number or percentage where none exists. Just a rough (likely low ball) gross estimate for illustrative purposes.

There are those pesky 7 Thunders, too

 

[Chris]

I agree that 2.5B people remaining is probably high, but I didn't want to presume to insert a number or percentage where none exists. Just a rough (likely low ball) gross estimate for illustrative purposes.

There are those pesky 7 Thunders, too

Yep, the Bible doesn't say how many that will be left when Jesus returns so we can only speculate, for whatever that is worth, which is why I used the icons a lot in my post. I'm going to ponder my post above some more as it really is going to radically different in the Tribulation period. Things are not going to be as they are now and that disruption is going to cause people to die just from meds, food, power, etc. not being available.

I was just thinking since I made that post above, do you remember when people started dying here from COVID. Do you remember they cold storage trucks, make shift morgues, etc. when they did not have enough room for the dead? We saw images and video of other countries like India cremating people on pile after burning pile in open fields, etc. That was with just 10,000s of people dying in a short period of time. I'm struggling to get a picture of what the places would look like with 1.5 billion dying in a quick amount of time. And then some time later another third of the world. I can't imagine the disease, contamination, etc. that would come out of all those bodies.

And to think this will all come about because people have no love for their Father in Heaven.

 

[Ghoti Ichthus]

Some people out there probably think life is going to go on as normal so that they get a good night's sleep, get up take a shower, eat breakfast, drive to work, works 8 hours, go by the grocery store after work, go home cook dinner, watch TV, and then go to bed. Get up tomorrow and do all over again. I don;t really think that is who thing are going to work for 7 years. With all these judgments taking place, I think it is going to be really different. I don't think we can really understand the domino effect of having people so many people die. Who is going to be left to run the power grid, make medicines, get food to stores, maintain law and order, etc. when terrifying judgments are falling all over the world? I think it is going to be bad. Really bad.

I think some above mentioned 500,000,000 to 1,000,000,000 worldwide would seem more likely. I would guess more toward the lower figure, but that is JMHO.

I'm just glad we won't be here to see and live it.

WARNING: Grossness and disgustingness in my reply to Chris


Who's going to bury, burn, etc. all those dead people

Even with the lowest numbers of dead people (approximately 2.5 BILLION), the only practical and sanitary way of disposal will be by burning. Open air or crematory, the result will be a horrific stench (plus all the decaying bodies waiting for disposal), and the smell and taste getting into everything. These effects were well documented during the Holocaust. Enough burning causes haze and smoke pollution, as noted both during the Holocaust and more recently due to forest fires. Unfortunately, due to the high water content of bodies, even emaciated and dehydrated ones, burning requires significnt fuel for high heat and/or long burn times. Eventually, such fuel will run out, even if is being used to generate power to run electrically powered crematoria, necessitating disposal of bodies by some other means, at least for some.

If bodies are dumped into the oceans, lakes, rivers, and streams, as has happened during past calamaties, it will have the effect of turning the water putrid, non-potable, opaque, and thick, and really messing up the ecosystems and food chains (without the benefit of the rains and water from the fountains of the deep during the Flood to scrub and wash it). Thick enough, and even moving water becomes sluggish and stagnant, and wave action and currents are impacted. The condition and stagnation of the water will have the added effect of killing fish, and other wildlife in the water, adding to the rotting mess, and starting/perpetuating a domino effect of death, putrifaction, and decay. The lakes and rivers in Rwanda were illustrative of the results of dumping large numbers of dead bodies into bodies of water Polluting such large areas of the water will have the effect of killing tons and tons and tons of the algae that scrub carbon dioxide out of the air and water, leading to higher green house gas percentages and lower/depleted oxygen levels in the atmosphere. And lower levels of oxygen in the water, leading to slower rates of decomposition and consequent greater odor, increasing spread of death-promoting conditions in the water, and enhanced petri dish-like media for growth of germs and vermin to spread them

Mass graves have to be dug and covered, and use of lime is preferable. Lime is caustic and hard to store in damp or wet environments, and as a consumable item, subject to shortages or just pain non-availability. If fuel is a problem, the equipment to dig and cover the mass graves this will be useless, leading to use of next-to-die people to dig and cover. Mass graves take up real estate, specifically not paved over space, which is usually in short supply in urban areas. Use of rural and suburban land for mass graves would necessitate manpower, fuel, etc. for transport, and over time will become untenable.

Considering numbers and the worldwide dispersal of death, bodies will have to be disposed of in all sorts of ways, most of which are *unpleasant* The bodies that aren't disposed of effectively right away will become breeding grounds for disease and the vermin that spread it. Some of what will and is likely to happen during the events and conditions of the Tribulation is so gross and disgusting that I haven't posted it.

On the bright side, there will be a bunch of empty graves, complete with casket and maybe vault, and a lot of formerly occupied spaces in mausoleums and crypts


Like you, I'm glad we won't be here to see (and smell and taste) it.

 

[Ghoti Ichthus]

And to think this will all come about because people have no love for their Father in Heaven.

Some don't know their Father in Heaven, or even that He exists

Time to be about The Lord's work . . .

 

[cavalier973]

Revelation 19:17-18

“Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, “Come and gather together for the supper of the great God, that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, both small and great.”

The birds clean up the mess, apparently. At least, after the Battle of Armegeddon.

 

[Hidden]

Much of the action in Revelation happens during the three woes, namely:

First Woe - the Fifth Trumpet - Abaddon and his locusts come out of the bottomless pit
Second Woe - The Sixth Trumpet - the four angels released from the Euphrates
Third Woe - The Seventh Trumpet - the 7 bowls of wrath

It's interesting to note that during the second and the third woes, we are introduced into the following:
- The Two Witnesses
- Israel flees to the desert
- Satan and his angels thrown into the earth
- The First and the Second Beast
- The Three Angels
- The 144,000 on Mount Zion (the firstfruits of Israel
- The Trumpet Martyrs (standing beside the sea of glass in heaven)

 

[daygo]

I agree that 2.5B people remaining is probably high, but I didn't want to presume to insert a number or percentage where none exists. Just a rough (likely low ball) gross estimate for illustrative purposes.

There are those pesky 7 Thunders, too

I agree, simple maths tell you so unless rapture is decades away, imo less than a billion possibly as low as 500, 000, 000.

 

[Kenny64]

The prelude to the opening of the seven seals in John’s vision is a search for someone worthy to open the heavenly scroll in Revelation 5. John writes, “I saw in the right hand of him who sat on the throne a scroll with writing on both sides and sealed with seven seals” (Revelation 5:1). This scroll contains the judgments of God; the fact that it is written on both sides indicates the extensive nature of the judgment pending. A mighty angel cries out, “Who is worthy to break the seals and open the scroll?” (verse 2). No one was found worthy of breaking the seals and opening the scroll, a fact that causes John to mourn (verse 3–4). If the scroll could not be opened, then wickedness would not be judged and evil would continue to infect the earth.

As John is weeping over the unopened scroll and its unbroken seven seals, he receives good news: “The Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed. He is able to open the scroll and its seven seals” (Revelation 5:5). “Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing at the center of the throne. . . . He went and took the scroll from the right hand of him who sat on the throne” (verses 6–7). This is a picture of Jesus Christ, the Lamb who was slain who is also the Lion of judgment. Jesus is the only one worthy to judge the world (cf. John 5:22). As He takes the scroll to open the seals and pronounce judgment on the unbelieving world, the beings in heaven glorify Him with a new song:
“You are worthy to take the scroll
and to open its seals,
because you were slain,
and with your blood you purchased for God
persons from every tribe and language and people and nation. . . .
Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain,
to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength
and honor and glory and praise!” (verses 9 and 12).

Amid the worship due to Him, the Lamb begins to open the seals (Revelation 6:1). With each seal opened, the scroll is able to be unrolled a little more, revealing bit by bit the judgments God has in store during the tribulation period. The first four of the seven seals release what are known as the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, because the judgments appear symbolically as a horse and rider bringing devastation in their wake.

The first seal. The first seal introduces the Antichrist (Revelation 6:1–2). From the biblical description, we gather several details: he rides a white horse, which speaks of peace; at the beginning of the tribulation, the Antichrist will come under the pretense of bringing peace to the world (cf. Daniel 9:27). He is given a crown, which indicates that the Antichrist will exercise great authority (cf. Daniel 7:24–25). He holds a bow, which shows his true intentions, and he advances “as a conqueror bent on conquest” (Revelation 6:2).

The second seal. When the Lamb opens the second seal, great warfare breaks out on the earth (Revelation 6:3–4). This is symbolized by a rider with a large sword on a fiery red horse.

The third seal. The breaking of the third of the seven seals causes famine (Revelation 6:5–6). The rider that John sees is riding a black horse and “holding a pair of scales in his hand.” Then John hears a declaration that people will have to work all day to earn just a little food.

The fourth seal. The fourth seal is opened, and John sees a pale horse. “Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him” (Revelation 6:7–8). The result of this fourth seal is that one fourth of the earth’s population are killed “by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth.”

 

[Kenny64]

quoted by Hidden:
For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. (Colossians 3:3
and Amen