Russia’s Putin to NATO: Commit Suicide or Face All-Out War

Ghoti Ichthus

Pray so they do not serve alone. Ephesians 6:10-20
And then there's the relationship between Putin and the Russian Orthodox Church (ROC). In the West we're not used to having the church (or any religion) influence political leaders like ROC does Putin, nor are we used to government meddling in the affairs of the church at the head-of-denomination level as Putin does the ROC, nor are we used to having the political head of the country being the political head of the church. Likewise, we, in the West are not used to having a united theological front, as is the case with the ROC, or membership in the state church (ROC) being necessary for political (and economic) favor. Although the ROC Patriarch wields a great deal of power, he must still walk a tightrope between the political head of the church (Putin) and the theological/doctrinal positions and traditions of the ROC. As far as the ROC is concerned, the Western church has become weak and apostate.

Probably the closest thing we have in the West is the relationship between the British Monarchy and the Church of England.


Russia doesn't have any particular animosity toward Israel but he does have some against some of their leaders.

Russia has a long, strong history of persecuting Jewish people. Partly political and partly religious.

There's a great deal of Antisemitism in the ROC, in part due to some of their doctrines, theology, traditions, and history :cry


:pray :pray :amen :amen
 

Ghoti Ichthus

Pray so they do not serve alone. Ephesians 6:10-20
Russia has always resented the West's economic blockcade of Russia/the Soviet Union. This was effectively done by other-than-Societ Bloc countries refusing to take Rubles. So, Russia always had to obtain hard currency to pay debts, obligations, import goods and services, etc. using gold and other valuable considerations. NWO benfits Russia like no other country just because its currency becomes just has hard/liquid/wothless as every other country's, whether or not there is only one global currency, or the global government/IMF sets exchange rates, requires universal acceptance, and enforces via global monetary/currency policies. This is partly why Russia/USSR has distrusted the West for a very long time, and is part of the Cold War that never really ended.
 

athenasius

Well-Known Member
Former NATO Secretary-General Anders Fogh Rasmussen, in an opinion article published by Politico, warned that Putin is seeking Russian control over the security of Central and Eastern Europe:

Under the new Russian proposals, NATO would have to seek consent from Moscow to deploy troops in Central and Eastern Europe, refrain from ‘any military activity’ across Eastern Europe, the southern Caucuses and Central Asia, and halt any NATO drills near Russia. The agreement also demands a written guarantee that Ukraine will not be offered NATO membership, and a draft treaty with the United States would ban it from sending warships and aircrafts to ‘areas where they can strike targets on the territory of the other party,’ like the Baltics and the Black Sea.

“This is not a serious proposal from a man who wants peace.

“Putin is skilled at creating crises only to later extinguish them, like a firefighter trying to douse his own arson attack, and by threatening to invade Ukraine, he has calculated that the U.S. and other Western powers might negotiate directly with the Kremlin — potentially over their Eastern European and Baltic allies — offering concessions and allowing him to maintain influence over former Soviet countries in exchange for peace.

“Putin plays a bad hand well — but his tactics will only work if we fold. And it’s time for NATO to call Putin’s bluff.

“Under no circumstances should the U.S. or NATO give commitments on future enlargement, real or de facto…. NATO cannot have an open-door policy on enlargement in which it continues to allow Putin to act as the doorman.

“NATO cannot negotiate down the barrel of a gun. And if we back down now, that signal will be heard loud and clear by both the democracies that rely on us, and the autocrats who lament and fear our freedom.”
Putin is calculating that Biden is this generation's Neville Chamberlain who famously bought "peace in our time" by signing away the fate of Czechoslovakia to Hitler on the eve of WW2. It didn't deter or delay Hitler one bit, but it sure bought Hitler some time.

Rebekah Koffler, a Russian-born U.S. intelligence expert, argued that the evidence is overwhelming that Russia is about to invade Ukraine, and that Putin was taking advantage of the weakness of the United States under President Joe Biden:

“The Russian leader… believes he has a window of opportunity to act. He is worried that the risk of Kiev joining NATO will increase if a stronger U.S. leader…comes to power. He also knows that the Pentagon is only beginning its transition from counter-terrorism operations onto a new footing focused on major states such as China and Russia.

“Russian troops are primed to fight in the cold, as they always have been, and Putin likely believes the West won’t wade into the snow to help Ukraine. Emboldened by his ability to blindside the West, such as by previously invading Georgia and taking Crimea, and by extorting concessions from Joe Biden, Putin is positioning to outmaneuver Washington.

“Regretfully, the Biden administration’s ‘experts,’ like Obama’s before them who fecklessly sought a ‘reset’ with Russia, are likely to fall into Putin’s trap.”
This is an EXCELLENT article.

Rebekah Koffler is one of the best analysts for Russian politics. And like always Putin thinks like a Russian, and winter is on his side. There is a joke, an old Russian proverb about General Winter being one of Russia's best generals.

The meaning of that goes back in time beyond Josephus who remarked in the first century about the tribes around Russia having a habit of drawing their enemies into the heartland of Russia and often winter was the final touch as the supply lines lengthen and the troops get weary of fighting on unfamiliar ground in winter conditions. Both Hitler and Napoleon were defeated by Russia's strategic use of "General Winter".
 

Ghoti Ichthus

Pray so they do not serve alone. Ephesians 6:10-20
And it's going to stink :eek :puke
Israel's buriers will bury the dead for seven months
Israel will burn the weapons for seven years and not have to cut down trees for fuel
They way this reads, Israel may at that time have regained all of the land in the deed God gave to Abraham (Nile to Euphrates), or at least more of it that it has now

18 In the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:
Genesis 15:18, KJV


I've always thought Gog is a large army/coalition from Russia, Ukraine, old Soviet bloc, islamic republics and countries, etc., and it fits with the descriptions in Ezekiel 38 and 39:
Evidently only the last remaining 6th of the army dies in Israel.

1 Therefore, thou son of man, prophesy against Gog, and say, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:
2 And I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee, and will cause thee to come up from the north parts, and will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel:
3 And I will smite thy bow out of thy left hand, and will cause thine arrows to fall out of thy right hand.
4 Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel, thou, and all thy bands, and the people that is with thee: I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the beasts of the field to be devoured.
5 Thou shalt fall upon the open field: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord God.
6 And I will send a fire on Magog, and among them that dwell carelessly in the isles: and they shall know that I am the Lord.
7 So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the Lord, the Holy One in Israel.
8 Behold, it is come, and it is done, saith the Lord God; this is the day whereof I have spoken.
9 And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:
10 So that they shall take no wood out of the field, neither cut down any out of the forests; for they shall burn the weapons with fire: and they shall spoil those that spoiled them, and rob those that robbed them, saith the Lord God.
11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it The valley of Hamongog.
12 And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land.
13 Yea, all the people of the land shall bury them; and it shall be to them a renown the day that I shall be glorified, saith the Lord God.
14 And they shall sever out men of continual employment, passing through the land to bury with the passengers those that remain upon the face of the earth, to cleanse it: after the end of seven months shall they search.
15 And the passengers that pass through the land, when any seeth a man's bone, then shall he set up a sign by it, till the buriers have buried it in the valley of Hamongog.
16 And also the name of the city shall be Hamonah. Thus shall they cleanse the land.
Ezekiel 39:1-16, KJV


Bibleatlas.org shows the valley of passengers (aka, valley of travelers, aka Dibon, aka valley of hamongog) on the east side of the Dead Sea, which is in modern-day Jordan
https://bibleatlas.org/full/valley_of_the_travelers.htm

Dhiban, Jordan
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhiban,_Jordan
 

Footsteps

Well-Known Member
Actual statement made by Putin recently regarding American vs Russian deaths in a nuclear war: “If we die, we will go to Heaven because we will be martyrs. If Americans die, they will just be dead (laughing).”
It appears Vlad never answered an altar call during his KGB career.
 

Ghoti Ichthus

Pray so they do not serve alone. Ephesians 6:10-20
Actual statement made by Putin recently regarding American vs Russian deaths in a nuclear war: “If we die, we will go to Heaven because we will be martyrs. If Americans die, they will just be dead (laughing).”
It appears Vlad never answered an altar call during his KGB career.

For Putin to say this is actually not surprising. More and more the Eastern Church, of which Putin is a member, views the West as hopelessly corrupt (sinful). The Orthodox Church considers itself the original Church and recognizes RCC as a (corrupt) part of it. Many Orthodox view Protestant Churches as less than the original church because they broke off from the RCC and accuse Protestants of doing/believing anything willy-nilly, not following the Bible, and being weak (apostate and not properly influencing mores and society). Depending on the denomination, some Orthodox don't even view it as Christian because of watered down theology, doctrine, and practice, plus the break from RCC. This is actually kind of hypocritical since it was the Orthodox that split from RCC in 1054 (Great Schism), even though the Church leaders of the day voted on and acknowledged the Primacy of Rome during the first ecumenical council. In a way, the Orthodox were the first Protestants :lol

Here endeth a very brief and superficial, teensy-weensy, teeny-tiny, snippet of Church history :lol


Interesting that Putin's statement about going to Heaven because of martyrdom is congruent with islamic teaching of jihadis going to paradise when martyred :cry


[ducks rocks]
 

Wings Like Eagles

Well-Known Member
For Putin to say this is actually not surprising. More and more the Eastern Church, of which Putin is a member, views the West as hopelessly corrupt (sinful). The Orthodox Church considers itself the original Church and recognizes RCC as a (corrupt) part of it. Many Orthodox view Protestant Churches as less than the original church because they broke off from the RCC and accuse Protestants of doing/believing anything willy-nilly, not following the Bible, and being weak (apostate and not properly influencing mores and society). Depending on the denomination, some Orthodox don't even view it as Christian because of watered down theology, doctrine, and practice, plus the break from RCC. This is actually kind of hypocritical since it was the Orthodox that split from RCC in 1054 (Great Schism), even though the Church leaders of the day voted on and acknowledged the Primacy of Rome during the first ecumenical council. In a way, the Orthodox were the first Protestants :lol

Here endeth a very brief and superficial, teensy-weensy, teeny-tiny, snippet of Church history :lol


Interesting that Putin's statement about going to Heaven because of martyrdom is congruent with islamic teaching of jihadis going to paradise when martyred :cry


[ducks rocks]
The difference would of course be that Christian martyrdom is being killed for being among the faithful; Islamic "martyrdom" as frequently perpetrated, would be committing murder in the process of committing suicide--big difference.

The Orthodox churches trace their heritage back to the Greek Fathers and are very diligent in their study of very early believers and their practice of the faith. The Orthodox believe that the RCC went awry when they began to accept the authority of churchmen over that of Scripture. They, unlike the RCC believe in "the primacy of Holy Scripture" insisting that it is the "source of the Christian faith". In that, evangelicals would have more in common with the Orthodox faith than with Catholicism. The RCC holds that the Church is the "pillar of the faith".

What one sees about Orthodoxy when examining it from a Western, rationalistic perspective, is that it tends to include a great deal more mysticism and extra-biblical tradition than would be the case with Protestantism which broke further and further away from mysticism and tradition with each denominational iteration. I am firmly Baptist in my outlook, rejecting many traditions of both Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism as being unbiblical. But, sometimes, I long for a filling of our churches with what the Greek Fathers seem to have had (and emphasized strongly)--a warmth and appreciation for the Lord's passionate devotion to His Church and a heartfelt joy. (Too often, Baptist adherents have been described as "baptized in pickle juice"--probably has to do with the influence of Calvinism). There are a number of evangelicals who have converted to Eastern Orthodoxy of late.

As for the Great Schism, from the POV of the Orthodox it was regrettable but necessary because of several centuries of theological disagreement. They did not recognize the Bishop of Rome (the Pope) as being the "head of the Church" but insisted that Christ was the head of the Church and that He desired for His Church to "live by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God". The final straw was when, in 1053, the Pope ordered the Greek churches of southern Italy to follow Latin practices. If they refused, they were to be closed. The Orthodox retaliated by doing the same with Latin churches in the East, while beginning the formal process of separation.
 

Wings Like Eagles

Well-Known Member
And then there's the relationship between Putin and the Russian Orthodox Church (ROC). In the West we're not used to having the church (or any religion) influence political leaders like ROC does Putin, nor are we used to government meddling in the affairs of the church at the head-of-denomination level as Putin does the ROC, nor are we used to having the political head of the country being the political head of the church. Likewise, we, in the West are not used to having a united theological front, as is the case with the ROC, or membership in the state church (ROC) being necessary for political (and economic) favor. Although the ROC Patriarch wields a great deal of power, he must still walk a tightrope between the political head of the church (Putin) and the theological/doctrinal positions and traditions of the ROC. As far as the ROC is concerned, the Western church has become weak and apostate.

Probably the closest thing we have in the West is the relationship between the British Monarchy and the Church of England.




Russia has a long, strong history of persecuting Jewish people. Partly political and partly religious.

There's a great deal of Antisemitism in the ROC, in part due to some of their doctrines, theology, traditions, and history :cry

that
:pray :pray :amen :amen
There is a long strong history of Antisemitism from Russia to the Atlantic Ocean--the Russians are certainly not alone in that. The Russians have been cast in the role of of Gog/Magog for far too long. Russia didn't even exist in the time that Ezekiel was writing. "Rosh" simply means "head" in Hebrew--has nothing to do with Russians who are mainly Nordic peoples that spread into the area that we now call Russia, long after the time of Ezekiel. Ezekiel was concerned with Israel's much closer neighboring nations. An amusing side note on the settlement of Russia after many many centuries of being a barren waste, is that it took the invention of gun powder by the Chinese and then its dissemination to the West to cause any significant settling of Russia because of the problem of ferocious bears.
 

Hidden

Well-Known Member
For Putin to say this is actually not surprising. More and more the Eastern Church, of which Putin is a member, views the West as hopelessly corrupt (sinful). The Orthodox Church considers itself the original Church and recognizes RCC as a (corrupt) part of it. Many Orthodox view Protestant Churches as less than the original church because they broke off from the RCC and accuse Protestants of doing/believing anything willy-nilly, not following the Bible, and being weak (apostate and not properly influencing mores and society). Depending on the denomination, some Orthodox don't even view it as Christian because of watered down theology, doctrine, and practice, plus the break from RCC. This is actually kind of hypocritical since it was the Orthodox that split from RCC in 1054 (Great Schism), even though the Church leaders of the day voted on and acknowledged the Primacy of Rome during the first ecumenical council. In a way, the Orthodox were the first Protestants :lol

Here endeth a very brief and superficial, teensy-weensy, teeny-tiny, snippet of Church history :lol


Interesting that Putin's statement about going to Heaven because of martyrdom is congruent with islamic teaching of jihadis going to paradise when martyred :cry


[ducks rocks]

My visit in Georgia last October was my first exposure to Orthodox churches. We visited a number of churches during our three-day guided trip. and there are tons of them. Growing up in a heavily Catholic country and the family on my mother side being staunch Catholic, I was amazed that there's this whole other strain of false Christianity that existed.

I've only read about it in books, but seeing all those churches in person is something else. Their patron saint is Nino, who in Philippine Catholicism is baby Jesus, but in Georgia she's a woman who supposedly spread "Christianity" in the 4th or 5th century. I've joked with friends during the tour that this was so long ago that Malays who populated my country probably hadn't even reached our shores and Georgians already had these huge cathedrals. They also had nuns and monks in those cathedrals and monasteries and they watch out and remind tourists who take pictures inside because it's not allowed. History is interesting, and I believe we'll get to see all of it in the archives of heaven.
 

Ghoti Ichthus

Pray so they do not serve alone. Ephesians 6:10-20
The difference would of course be that Christian martyrdom is being killed for being among the faithful; Islamic "martyrdom" as frequently perpetrated, would be committing murder in the process of committing suicide--big difference.

The Orthodox churches trace their heritage back to the Greek Fathers and are very diligent in their study of very early believers and their practice of the faith. The Orthodox believe that the RCC went awry when they began to accept the authority of churchmen over that of Scripture. They, unlike the RCC believe in "the primacy of Holy Scripture" insisting that it is the "source of the Christian faith". In that, evangelicals would have more in common with the Orthodox faith than with Catholicism. The RCC holds that the Church is the "pillar of the faith".

What one sees about Orthodoxy when examining it from a Western, rationalistic perspective, is that it tends to include a great deal more mysticism and extra-biblical tradition than would be the case with Protestantism which broke further and further away from mysticism and tradition with each denominational iteration. I am firmly Baptist in my outlook, rejecting many traditions of both Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism as being unbiblical. But, sometimes, I long for a filling of our churches with what the Greek Fathers seem to have had (and emphasized strongly)--a warmth and appreciation for the Lord's passionate devotion to His Church and a heartfelt joy. (Too often, Baptist adherents have been described as "baptized in pickle juice"--probably has to do with the influence of Calvinism). There are a number of evangelicals who have converted to Eastern Orthodoxy of late.

As for the Great Schism, from the POV of the Orthodox it was regrettable but necessary because of several centuries of theological disagreement. They did not recognize the Bishop of Rome (the Pope) as being the "head of the Church" but insisted that Christ was the head of the Church and that He desired for His Church to "live by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God". The final straw was when, in 1053, the Pope ordered the Greek churches of southern Italy to follow Latin practices. If they refused, they were to be closed. The Orthodox retaliated by doing the same with Latin churches in the East, while beginning the formal process of separation.

The filioque was the proverbial last straw . . .
 

Ghoti Ichthus

Pray so they do not serve alone. Ephesians 6:10-20
There is a long strong history of Antisemitism from Russia to the Atlantic Ocean--the Russians are certainly not alone in that. The Russians have been cast in the role of of Gog/Magog for far too long. Russia didn't even exist in the time that Ezekiel was writing. "Rosh" simply means "head" in Hebrew--has nothing to do with Russians who are mainly Nordic peoples that spread into the area that we now call Russia, long after the time of Ezekiel. Ezekiel was concerned with Israel's much closer neighboring nations. An amusing side note on the settlement of Russia after many many centuries of being a barren waste, is that it took the invention of gun powder by the Chinese and then its dissemination to the West to cause any significant settling of Russia because of the problem of ferocious bears.

Russian bear dogs (Caucasian Ovcharka official breed name) and their predecessors were used to hunt and defend against bears. Still are in some places.
They're also used inside some Soviet Russian prisons.

What is modern-day Russia, etc. has been inhabied since at least 1000 BC, and organized known government from 800s BC.

Tracing from Table of Nations in Genesis to modern peoples, Gog/Magog is Russia and other north European peoples.
God knew all of history before it happened, so there is nothing mysterious about the Bible identifying/describing various modern nations even before they existed.
 

Ghoti Ichthus

Pray so they do not serve alone. Ephesians 6:10-20
ROOT while editing the above post [sigh]
The following on RF, especially the last two, may be of interest, reference identification of peoples and countries:

https://www.raptureforums.com/pete-garcia/the-noah-chronicles-volume-i/
https://www.raptureforums.com/pete-garcia/the-noah-chronicles-volume-ii/
https://www.raptureforums.com/pete-garcia/the-noah-chronicles-volume-iii/
https://www.raptureforums.com/pete-garcia/the-noah-chronicles-volume-iv/

Also, from the website with the original article, from which much of the above came:
http://soundchristian.com/magog/
 

Wings Like Eagles

Well-Known Member
The filioque was the proverbial last straw . . .
Depends on who you believe. The controversy over the filioque was a centuries-old dispute (going back to at least the 4th century). The position among the "rigorists" in the Eastern Church was that the filioque diminished the role of the Holy Spirit and was contrary to their interpretation of the words of Christ in John 15:26, when He explicitly states that He (Jesus) would send the Advocate--"the Spirit of Truth who goes out from the Father..." The RCC tries to downplay the political role that the RCC played in the Schism. In any case, I have "no dog in the hunt" but I think that the Eastern Church is right on the matter of the filioque and I would consider them as brothers and sisters in Christ for their upholding the primacy of Scripture. There are many among the RCC hierarchy (especially the Vatican) who I believe are the enemies of Christ. I have argued with a few Catholics online (some of them quite well-versed on twisting Scripture) on other Christian websites and...well, enough said.
 

Wings Like Eagles

Well-Known Member
Russian bear dogs (Caucasian Ovcharka official breed name) and their predecessors were used to hunt and defend against bears. Still are in some places.
They're also used inside some Soviet Russian prisons.

What is modern-day Russia, etc. has been inhabied since at least 1000 BC, and organized known government from 800s BC.

Tracing from Table of Nations in Genesis to modern peoples, Gog/Magog is Russia and other north European peoples.
God knew all of history before it happened, so there is nothing mysterious about the Bible identifying/describing various modern nations even before they existed.
This website, I believe, explains well what is likely an error in identifying Russia as "Magog":

https://www.endtime-insights.org/2022/01/is-russia-rosh.html
 

Rocky R.

Well-Known Member
When the Philistines taunted Israel with Goliath, David met him in the name of God.
So who should our champion be?

Kamala Harris
General Mark Milley
Andrew Cuomo
Chris Cuomo
Perry Como
Pete Buttigieg
Bevis
Alfalfa
Bette Midler
Steven Colbert
Other (insert name)
I know you're trying to be funny, but REALLY?! Are you saying the U.S. is David in this matchup? We're far from being "after God's own heart", but I digress. What's that lineup going to do?

Kamala Harris would bribe the giant with s*x.
Mark Milley would drill the soldiers on why they shouldn't be racist towards Goliath.
Andrew Cuomo would be shaking so bad the ladies would feel his trembling hand where it don't belong...
Goliath would tell Fredo Cuomo to get lost, and then Fredo wouldn't say a word
Pete Buttigieg would cheat on his "partner" with Goliath

We've got nobody to stand in the gap for this nation, sans the prayers of all the remnant saints who lift up these United States in their supplications. President Plugs would forget who we're fighting and where he put those nuclear launch codes while Jen Psaki holds a press conference to tell everyone that her boss is the smartest man in the universe -- sharp as a tack because he actually remembered to sniff her hair in the morning. I say give it about until March, and then Putin invades Ukraine while Xi Jinping does his thing against Taiwan.
 

Footsteps

Well-Known Member
I know you're trying to be funny, but REALLY?! Are you saying the U.S. is David in this matchup? We're far from being "after God's own heart", but I digress. What's that lineup going to do?

Kamala Harris would bribe the giant with s*x.
Mark Milley would drill the soldiers on why they shouldn't be racist towards Goliath.
Andrew Cuomo would be shaking so bad the ladies would feel his trembling hand where it don't belong...
Goliath would tell Fredo Cuomo to get lost, and then Fredo wouldn't say a word
Pete Buttigieg would cheat on his "partner" with Goliath

We've got nobody to stand in the gap for this nation, sans the prayers of all the remnant saints who lift up these United States in their supplications. President Plugs would forget who we're fighting and where he put those nuclear launch codes while Jen Psaki holds a press conference to tell everyone that her boss is the smartest man in the universe -- sharp as a tack because he actually remembered to sniff her hair in the morning. I say give it about until March, and then Putin invades Ukraine while Xi Jinping does his thing against Taiwan.
You did a good job detailing the reasons our current “champions in charge” are a band of “(Clowns) on the Run”.
 
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