Russia wants contested church in Jerusalem to be handed over to Russia.

Andy C

Well-Known Member
How many of you think that before Russia comes against Israel they most be out of Ukraine?
I do believe the longer Russia is tied down in Ukraine, that will mean Ezekiel 38-39 will not happen until well after the war with Ukraine is over.
I also believe Ezekiel prophecy is before the rapture, or if there is a gap between the rapture and the eventual start of the tribulation, then this is when Ezekiel prophecy will happen.

We could be here longer than many of us believe we will be.
 

Spartan Sprinter 1

Formerly known as Shaun
I do believe the longer Russia is tied down in Ukraine, that will mean Ezekiel 38-39 will not happen until well after the war with Ukraine is over.
I also believe Ezekiel prophecy is before the rapture, or if there is a gap between the rapture and the eventual start of the tribulation, then this is when Ezekiel prophecy will happen.

We could be here longer than many of us believe we will be.

Yeah i'm hoping i'm wrong but i agree, i think God may show a bit more mercy and choose to tarry for a little while longer so more may come before he calls it a wrap and brings us home to him
 

Neonap

Well-Known Member
Yeah i'm hoping i'm wrong but i agree, i think God may show a bit more mercy and choose to tarry for a little while longer so more may come before he calls it a wrap and brings us home to him

2 Peter 3:9

9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

As much as we want Jesus to come right now, God is still searching for lost sheep. Many of us have family members and friends that are not saved, I think it's only God's good grace and mercy that He has not taken His bride with Him yet.

If the Rapture were to happen before 2017, I would have been left behind and would have to face the horrific 7 year Tribulation period. I hope that many of our loved ones will come to Jesus Christ before it's too late. We are all only one heartbeat away from Eternity.
 
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UntilTheWholeWorldHears

Well-Known Member
I do believe the longer Russia is tied down in Ukraine, that will mean Ezekiel 38-39 will not happen until well after the war with Ukraine is over.
I also believe Ezekiel prophecy is before the rapture, or if there is a gap between the rapture and the eventual start of the tribulation, then this is when Ezekiel prophecy will happen.

We could be here longer than many of us believe we will be.
I go back and forth on Ezekiel 38-39. Before or after the Rapture?
You can make a good case for each view.
However, what I believe is the strongest support for the “before” view is chapter four in the book of Revelation.
The church is caught up and no mention of the war in chapter four of the Ezekiel war.
Revelation is the perfect chronological order of the events after the rapture.
JMHO. Ultimately, God’s timing will be the perfect time.
 

JoyJoyJoy

I Shall Not Be Moved
I do believe the longer Russia is tied down in Ukraine, that will mean Ezekiel 38-39 will not happen until well after the war with Ukraine is over.
I also believe Ezekiel prophecy is before the rapture, or if there is a gap between the rapture and the eventual start of the tribulation, then this is when Ezekiel prophecy will happen.

We could be here longer than many of us believe we will be.
I know you listen to Brother Andy Woods. He has a different take on when the Ezekiel war will be....I think it's Middle East Meltdown #12...maybe 2/3 of the way in. Give it a listen.
Is it ok to post his teachings on here? I can try to find a written version to share????
 

Andy C

Well-Known Member
I know you listen to Brother Andy Woods. He has a different take on when the Ezekiel war will be....I think it's Middle East Meltdown #12...maybe 2/3 of the way in. Give it a listen.
Is it ok to post his teachings on here? I can try to find a written version to share????
If you look in the “Pastors Sermon” section of the forum, and go back several pages, you will find approx 100 written sermons by Woods. Mostly its the entire series on soteriology, and Daniel.
 

JoyJoyJoy

I Shall Not Be Moved
If you look in the “Pastors Sermon” section of the forum, and go back several pages, you will find approx 100 written sermons by Woods. Mostly its the entire series on soteriology, and Daniel.
I think I gave you the wrong episode. I think it's episode 11 that he talks about the timing of Gog/Magog.
 

athenasius

Well-Known Member
I was listening to Andy and he makes a very good case for the Rapture before Gog Magog happens.

It lines up with what I think about the wording in Ezek 38: 16, & 23 where it says this: I've bolded the bits I want to emphasize.

16 You will advance against my people Israel like a cloud that covers the land. In days to come, Gog, I will bring you against my land, so that the nations may know me when I am proved holy through you before their eyes.

23 And so I will show my greatness and my holiness, and I will make myself known in the sight of many nations. Then they will know that I am the Lord.’

and in Ezek 39: 6, 7, 13, 21, 23, 26, 27, 28 and 29

6 I will send fire on Magog and on those who live in safety in the coastlands, and they will know that I am the Lord.

7 “‘I will make known my holy name among my people Israel. I will no longer let my holy name be profaned, and the nations will know that I the Lord am the Holy One in Israel.

12 “‘For seven months the Israelites will be burying them in order to cleanse the land. 13 All the people of the land will bury them, and the day I display my glory will be a memorable day for them, declares the Sovereign Lord.

21 “I will display my glory among the nations, and all the nations will see the punishment I inflict and the hand I lay on them. 22 From that day forward the people of Israel will know that I am the Lord their God. 23 And the nations will know that the people of Israel went into exile for their sin, because they were unfaithful to me. So I hid my face from them and handed them over to their enemies, and they all fell by the sword.

25 “Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says: I will now restore the fortunes of Jacob and will have compassion on all the people of Israel, and I will be zealous for my holy name. 26 They will forget their shame and all the unfaithfulness they showed toward me when they lived in safety in their land with no one to make them afraid. 27 When I have brought them back from the nations and have gathered them from the countries of their enemies, I will be proved holy through them in the sight of many nations. 28 Then they will know that I am the Lord their God, for though I sent them into exile among the nations, I will gather them to their own land, not leaving any behind. 29 I will no longer hide my face from them, for I will pour out my Spirit on the people of Israel, declares the Sovereign Lord.”

In these verses 2 things stand out to me

1: the utter lack of the knowledge of God among the invaders and the people all around the world. Think about that. God has designed this event to in part to show that HE IS GOD to people who don't know Him. If this was before the Rapture, many of us around the world and even in the invaders of Gog Magog, would know Him. Just in Iran alone, many are coming to a saving knowledge of Jesus.

2 the complete PIVOT to ISRAEL as God's focus. Look at chapter 39: 7, 12, 22, 26, 28 and 29 which ALL speak of a change towards Israel as the focus of God's attention and loving restoration. This is the primary purpose of the Gog Magog event, as verse 29 says: I will no longer hide my face from them, for I will pour out my Spirit on the people of Israel, declares the Sovereign Lord.”

THOSE 2 Reasons are why I've always thought the Rapture has to happen before Gog Magog. And not too long before, because there will be people coming to God right away after the Rapture. So I don't think there is a long gap. I think there might be one, but not a huge one. Otherwise there would be a number of people around the world who do know God. God's pivot to Israel is complete by the wording thru ch 39.

Looking at Paul in Romans 11:25-27 where he speaks of us being grafted in, but when our full number is come in (Rapture) then God turns to Israel and the hardening in part is lifted.

25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, 26 and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written:

“The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
27 And this is my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”

Andy Woods spoke a bit on that, but the point that is really standing out for me now from listening to Andy is how God is looking at Israel's peace and safety.

When Andy talked thru the references in Ezek 38 and 39 of Israel dwelling in safety he was tying it to the peace treaty with the Antichrist in the very early days of the Tribulation.

As Andy points out if Babylon can burn for the entire Millennial Reign of Christ, then finishing off burning the weapons of Gog Magog is not a problem. I've been more inclined to see it Dr. Fruchtenbaum's way, BUT I think Dr Andy has a more solid argument for the peace treaty with the AC being the cause for Israel to be in that state of peace and security.

And THAT lines up with Ezek 39: 26 which seems to contrast with the peace and safety verses of Ezek 38 such as v 8, 10 and 14 because God is angry with that peace in Ezek 39:26

26 They will forget their shame and all the unfaithfulness they showed toward me when they lived in safety in their land with no one to make them afraid.

I never spotted that connection till after listening to Dr Andy Woods, and it pops up with God saying their SHAME and ALL the UNFAITHFULNESS that they showed toward me when they lived in safety in their land.

I used to just think of that as Israel being largely secular and the religious Israeli's resisting Christ. But it's CONTRASTED with the way God is speaking to the invaders in Ezek 38 about going in when Israel is in peace and safety.

It almost sounds like that peace and safety was bought by being unfaithful to God. And that is exactly what happens with the Treaty with Death and Hades.

Ezek 38 God is speaking to the invaders and mentions the peace and safety and is angry about the invasion. He keeps His thoughts on the unfaithful way they got peace and safety for Ezek 39 when He discusses more about how this Gog Magog invasion is designed to bring Israel back to belief in Him.
 

athenasius

Well-Known Member
How many of you think that before Russia comes against Israel they most be out of Ukraine?
and that is another interesting thought.

I'm going to say it won't matter whether they are bogged down in the Ukraine because of the wording here:

Ezek 38:4
4 I will turn you around, put hooks in your jaws and bring you out with your whole army—your horses, your horsemen fully armed, and a great horde with large and small shields, all of them brandishing their swords.

IN FACT it rather suggests that Russia might be bogged down somewhere else, doing something else with their whole army.

And if God allows it, at that time for God's purposes as He will, it won't matter if it doesn't look possible from a human standpoint.

Now I happen to think that the Ukraine is doing 2 things for Russia. And a thought on a third

1 sort of a training exercise. When Ezek 38 & 39 happen, they will come with full force. Because God will be obviously defeating the undefeatable. Right now the Ukrainians are keeping them busy and pushing them out of some areas, forcing the Russians to retreat to the Eastern Ukraine and concentrate on taking Mariupol and the land bridge to the Crimean peninsula. By the time Ezek 38 happens, this force will be unbeatable.

2 Gog needs Magog back in the fold so to speak. One of Putin's reasons to invade is the Ukraine is the heart of Russian history, it's where things began. He is taking it to "cleanse it" of any anti Russian activity (what he calls de nazification) but also cleansing it of the not quite Russian Orthodox churches. The Ukraine has a unique blend of Catholic churches with an Eastern Orthodox flavour, but it's not Russian Orthodox. Putin may see this as cleansing the land of false religion as well. He used the Black Madonna Icon which in Russian thought always went ahead of them in battle to fly over the Crimea and the Ukraine before he invaded the Crimea.

3: --it keeps Russia busy. Right now they are getting very angry with Israel, but the Ukraine is first on their agenda. Later however....

Some VERY speculative "what if" thoughts of mine:
I think if the Rapture were to occur today-- much of the resistance in the Ukraine would go. There are a lot of Ukrainian believers in God who have been having prayer rallies, begging other Christians around the world to pray for them etc. I'm of the opinion that one of the reasons Russia is having trouble is that they don't have prayer support of that calibre.

So IF I'm right (and I might be dead wrong on all or any of this) that suggests that the Rapture might remove the resistance to Putin's invasion.

Gog gets Magog back,

we are outta here

and while Russia has been occupied with grabbing the Ukraine,

the AC might be rising fast right after the Rapture. A peace treaty in the mideast, a calm before the storm. For all we know that peace treaty might come as a European gas and oil deal in exchange for the promise of peace in the middle east.

Russia would then have to take care of business with Israel.

And Russia would have that hook in the jaw, drawing them back down towards Israel.
 
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