Revolution

[anath]

so will I miss Open Door.

 

[WKUHilltopper]

Of course Jesus told Peter to put his sword up - Jesus HAD to go to the cross to finish His work of redemption for mankind - that hadn't been accomplished at that point.

People taking over our nation and then fight? Have you NOT seen the published goal of the islamists, and how the man in the Whitehouse is catering to them, sharia law is next, do you not know what that is all about? Oh, still no talk on "conspiracies", when they now admit it? This is unreal. Just what I expected. I'm deleting my membership from this group, but I do want to say a hearty good-bye to those here I've spent much time with thru the years - God bless each and everyone of you.

Man...this is a real bummer.

 

[Suzanne]

I PM'd Adrian with a question last night, and I told him that I would put it on the open board for him to answer.

America is a country that was founded on the right to worship freely, live freely, and for each person to decide on his or her own path as long as it didn't harm other people. This country was bought with the blood of men and women who were willing to die for their beliefs. Our continued freedom has been paid for by many, many men and women who have purchased our liberty with their very lives. I believe that America has continued to grow and become the strong nation that it is because God had plans for it. I personally think that those plans were to spread the gospel around the world and to protect Israel from all of the nations and people who would love to destroy it. In that, America, as a nation, has been successful, because a large portion of the population loved and worshiped God. That, of course, has been changing for a lot of years.

There are men and women on this forum who have served in the military or have family and friends who have served. These are quite often, in my opinion, the best that America has to offer, because many of them enlist in the military out of a deep obligation to protect our nation. As we all know, some of these wonderful people have lost their lives, some have lost their limbs, and some have emotional and/or psychological problems from the events that they have witnessed and participated in. When they get home from Iraq, Afghanistan, and etc., some don't have jobs to return to, and in some heartbreaking situations, no family. These people give more for our freedom than most of us can even imagine.

This forum has been blessed by having wonderful pastors, preachers, teachers and prayer warriors. Some of these Christians believe that we should accept whatever happens to us in this world because of the way that Jesus Christ lived His life and gave it so that all of us could have salvation for the sin that we all were born into and continue to do. There are other Christians who believe in defending themselves, their families, neighbors, etc., from anyone or any nation who would harm them. I'm not defending either position. Each person must turn to God for His guidance.

I do understand Adrian's and other people's points of view about following Jesus Christ's example. I also don't believe in overthrowing the government to suit my own beliefs. From a personal stand point, I would turn to God for help if our nation was invaded, or if I ever felt that I, or someone I loved, was threatened to the extent that I needed to fight.

Now that I have explained my point, hopefully, I will get to my question. If we as Christians should follow Christ's non-violent example, how do we justify the actions of our soldiers? Many of them are also Christians, and that is one of the main reasons that they fight. They believe in the Constitution and defend it everyday, as do our police officers and many others. I'm also wondering how much of the divisiveness on this issue is cultural rather than Biblical?

My goal in asking these questions was not to cause more dissension. I'm hoping that there will be more understanding.

 

[UCT]

Time for some more light hearted postings..... Hopefully this makes people laugh and we can remember we will not ever agree on everything, but we're still brothers and sisters in Christ. I rarely agree with anyone, but I've come to realize it's ME, not the other person. lol



A mother took her little boy to church.
While in church the little boy said, “Mommy, I have to pee.”

The mother said to the little boy, “It’s not appropriate to say the word ‘pee’ in church. So, from now on whenever you have to ‘pee’ just tell me that you have to ‘whisper’.”

The following Sunday, the little boy went to church with his father and during the service said to his father, “Daddy, I have to whisper.“

The father looked at him and said, “Okay, just whisper in my ear.”

 

[UCT]

To Open Door;

Don't leave the site. I disagree with many people on many things. We all do. It's just life. Good Christian websites are hard to find. Even if you disagree with some people on some issues, it's ok. I am a bit of a conspiracy theorist myself and agree some serious troubling times are ahead. I understand I'm in the minority and many will not believe as I do. The point I am trying to make is in this day and age, finding true brother and sisters in Christ is a HARD thing to do.... Walking away over a disagreement isn't the answer. Give it a day or two, then see what you think. Obviously people want you to continue posting here.

 

[mattfivefour]

Thank you for a very thoughtful post, Suzanne. Here is my response.

A nation can (and a Christian nation MUST) defend itself against attack by another nation. It cannot permit itself to be overtaken by a nation that would overpower the will of the people and destroy the freedoms to worship as we do. This is Biblical. So to is the idea that a nation can defend another nation that is about to be brutalized if it views the cause as just. this all comes under the covering of the Biblical injunctions to protect the weak from those who are evil and would abuse them. And what applies to a nation, applies also to a Christian. He or she CAN defend themselves against physical attack. But just because we CAN do something does not mean we SHOULD. As Paul taught: all things are lawful for me; but not all things are expedient (wise and useful for the Kingdom's sake). We need to follow the direction of the Holy Spirit in such matters; and we can only do that as we are living close to God. The Holy Spirit is not something you keep in your back pocket and expect to pull out in case of emergency! The Holy Spirit is the third person of the Godhead, dwelling within us and unless our internal channel of communication with Him is kept open and our hearts and minds filled daily with God's Word, He will have no channel and no content with which to speak to us when we need Him to! If there is no normal communication, it is very unlikely there will be emergency communication.

As I said, I believe a Christian can—indeed, I think, MUST—defend a weak person who is about to be brutalized by a strong and wicked foe. You may recall that in his book The Cross and the Switchblade, David Wilkerson made no attempt to stop Nicky Cruz from possibly stabbing him when Cruz threatened him. In fact, as I recall, he responded to Cruz's threat that he would "cut him into a thousand pieces" by saying "Nicky if you cut me into a thousand pieces, every one of them will be crying 'Nicky I love you and God loves you, too!'" The power of the Holy Spirit working through the response He raised up in brother Dave at that moment began such a powerful work in Nicky Cruz's life that he not only wound up being born again but he left the Puerto Rican gang he led (despite their threat to kill him if he did) and became an evangelist among the various gangs and poor people of New York. But then having done that, Wilkerson also recounts seeing gang members begin to beat up a victim and he grabbed a baseball bat and waded into the midst of them swinging away, driving them off and saving the victim. See? there is a time to fight; but God has to lead.

And taking up a weapon to overthrow a democratically elected government is NEVER right. The will of the people must reign: even if it is something you just cannot live with.


As to surrendering to government— the issue is not so much surrendering ourselves to our government but surrendering ourselves to our God. Either we trust Him to lead us or we do not.

 

[Suzanne]

I don't disagree with anything that you've posted. : :

Speaking for myself, I don't believe that the Holy Spirit is something that you pull out in an emergency. The Holy Spirit has been with me for forty-five years. I did backslide when I was young, but the Lord never left me. I suffered when I sinned due to the influence of the Holy Spirit. I couldn't and wouldn't want to exist without Jesus Christ. I know enough about open door to know that he doesn't treat God lightly either. From what I have observed with him, he loves the Lord as much as anyone else on RF does. I guess that I'm confused about your post. :

 

[anath]

We Americans are fighting a much different war now. No longer is it nation against nation but against radical muslims whose goal is destroying America and Israel.
I believe there to be a demonic nature to this evil that much we are seeing is a spiritual war. If it comes to having to defend myself, I pray my heart is set on only pursuing justice and never about revenge.
I also pray for those who can be reached for Jesus that they will come to know the One True God.

 

[mattfivefour]

I agree with you, Suzanne. I have known open door since I joined this forum a few years ago and he is a man who I know truly loves God. I have always liked and respected him as a dear brother in Christ. So I was not implying that he or you or anyone else in particular was not trusting the Lord. If you got the impression that I was, I apologize: because that is not at all what I was saying. I was simply making a doctrinal point that those who are truly Christ's and live in His Word do not have to worry that when they need His direction in how to deal with a matter He will provide it. Those who do not, cannot count on having that same direction when they need it. Let every individual decide for themselves whether God is daily before their eyes, or only in their back pocket. No implication was intended in what I said.

And being filled with God's Word daily living in us and thus being open to His voice, we will act correctly when a situation arises ... whether that action has us saying "Cut me into a thousand pieces and each will cry God loves you" or picking up a baseball bat and flattening the foe.

Repeating the essence of the conclusion of my previous post— it all comes down to whom we trust. And if it is God, then we can completely give ourselves over to Him and He will give us what we need, when we need it. Our actions will flow from His will and His Word, not from our own fears or ideas of what is right. And THAT is surely the only correct answer to what we should do in a situation.

 

[Robert]

Thank you for a very thoughtful post, Suzanne. Here is my response.

A nation can (and a Christian nation MUST) defend itself against attack by another nation. It cannot permit itself to be overtaken by a nation that would overpower the will of the people and destroy the freedoms to worship as we do. This is Biblical. So to is the idea that a nation can defend another nation that is about to be brutalized if it views the cause as just. this all comes under the covering of the Biblical injunctions to protect the weak from those who are evil and would abuse them. And what applies to a nation, applies also to a Christian. He or she CAN defend themselves against physical attack. But just because we CAN do something does not mean we SHOULD. As Paul taught: all things are lawful for me; but not all things are expedient (wise and useful for the Kingdom's sake). We need to follow the direction of the Holy Spirit in such matters; and we can only do that as we are living close to God. The Holy Spirit is not something you keep in your back pocket and expect to pull out in case of emergency! The Holy Spirit is the third person of the Godhead, dwelling within us and unless our internal channel of communication with Him is kept open and our hearts and minds filled daily with God's Word, He will have no channel and no content with which to speak to us when we need Him to! If there is no normal communication, it is very unlikely there will be emergency communication.

As I said, I believe a Christian can—indeed, I think, MUST—defend a weak person who is about to be brutalized by a strong and wicked foe. You may recall that in his book The Cross and the Switchblade, David Wilkerson made no attempt to stop Nicky Cruz from possibly stabbing him when Cruz threatened him. In fact, as I recall, he responded to Cruz's threat that he would "cut him into a thousand pieces" by saying "Nicky if you cut me into a thousand pieces, every one of them will be crying 'Nicky I love you and God loves you, too!'" The power of the Holy Spirit working through the response He raised up in brother Dave at that moment began such a powerful work in Nicky Cruz's life that he not only wound up being born again but he left the Puerto Rican gang he led (despite their threat to kill him if he did) and became an evangelist among the various gangs and poor people of New York. But then having done that, Wilkerson also recounts seeing gang members begin to beat up a victim and he grabbed a baseball bat and waded into the midst of them swinging away, driving them off and saving the victim. See? there is a time to fight; but God has to lead.

And taking up a weapon to overthrow a democratically elected government is NEVER right. The will of the people must reign: even if it is something you just cannot live with.


As to surrendering to government— the issue is not so much surrendering ourselves to our government but surrendering ourselves to our God. Either we trust Him to lead us or we do not.

Thank you for posting this, bro.

On that note: I am not "anti-gun", I just do not want an armed uprising when I do not believe that is God's will for us. I personally have seen what violence does, and have seen it tear families apart down to the last raw fiber. I would not let a victim suffer, but I'm not in favor of violent overthrow either.

 

[Suzanne]

Thank you for posting this, bro.

On that note: I am not "anti-gun", I just do not want an armed uprising when I do not believe that is God's will for us. I personally have seen what violence does, and have seen it tear families apart down to the last raw fiber. I would not let a victim suffer, but I'm not in favor of violent overthrow either.

Robert, Troy (open door) is a man much like you, Adrian, WKU, etc. He has a wife, children, grandchildren, and people he deeply cares for. He loves the Lord and stays grounded in the word of God and prayer the way that you do. He's not going to rise up and overthrow the government, but he would defend what he loves and believes in if he had to.

He does see that there is a one-world government that is coming to fruition quickly. There are many Christians who see that too. It has really become apparent since 9/11 happened. I don't know anymore about how much real conspiracy there is from the people involved than you or anyone else does. We all know where the real spirit of conspiracy comes from, and it isn't from people. Some people see it as simply the left and right of politics, and there are others who know that it's more than that and will continue to steadily grow until it comes to completion during the tribulation. Thank God that you, I, and the other Christians on RF, won't be here to see it. We will all be with the Lord at that time.

Love You, brother.

 

[Suzanne]

I agree with you, Suzanne. I have known open door since I joined this forum a few years ago and he is a man who I know truly loves God. I have always liked and respected him as a dear brother in Christ. So I was not implying that he or you or anyone else in particular was not trusting the Lord. If you got the impression that I was, I apologize: because that is not at all what I was saying. I was simply making a doctrinal point that those who are truly Christ's and live in His Word do not have to worry that when they need His direction in how to deal with a matter He will provide it. Those who do not, cannot count on having that same direction when they need it. Let every individual decide for themselves whether God is daily before their eyes, or only in their back pocket. No implication was intended in what I said.

And being filled with God's Word daily living in us and thus being open to His voice, we will act correctly when a situation arises ... whether that action has us saying "Cut me into a thousand pieces and each will cry God loves you" or picking up a baseball bat and flattening the foe.

Repeating the essence of the conclusion of my previous post— it all comes down to whom we trust. And if it is God, then we can completely give ourselves over to Him and He will give us what we need, when we need it. Our actions will flow from His will and His Word, not from our own fears or ideas of what is right. And THAT is surely the only correct answer to what we should do in a situation.

I agree with you, brother.

 

[Suzanne]

We Americans are fighting a much different war now. No longer is it nation against nation but against radical muslims whose goal is destroying America and Israel.
I believe there to be a demonic nature to this evil that much we are seeing is a spiritual war. If it comes to having to defend myself, I pray my heart is set on only pursuing justice and never about revenge.
I also pray for those who can be reached for Jesus that they will come to know the One True God.

Amen to that, sister. :

 

[TexasThunder]

I have not posted here on RF in a very long time, but after reading this thread I feel compelled to throw my 2 cents in. I hate for anyone to leave, especially when its over a disagreement a stance or view. This whole notion of possible revolution is tricky. If you look at history, Christians have always fought in wars from ancient times to modern days. But that doesnt mean always mean taking up the sword, but we should be fighting using the WORD.

I think times are going to start really getting tough not only in the US but all over, I really cant remember when things have been good all over the globe. But we are on a prophetic slide towards the book of Revelation, if we are not already moving swiftly. I have guns, grew up hunting, fishing, enjoying the outdoors. I could I kill a deer to feed my family, most certainly, and I will also tell you I can make great sausage or deer chili with it! Could I kill an human? I dont know. I am not a sheep in the sense that I will roll over and take anything that comes. I protect my family, believe in the right of free speach, to bear arms, to protect my property. But this is such a different country than what I grew up in during the 60's - 80's. I see cameras on every stop light, even in sleepy country towns. We know something is wrong in our country, and if enough people get fed up or if we have a terrible disaster then some will break and there could be outright lawlessness.

Anyone that really reads and studies the Bible knows whats coming and who the Victory belongs to. Daniel did not take any sort of pepper spray in that dungeon to keep the lions away or have a gun strapped to his hip. He relied on the ONLY thing we can really count on in and that is Gods loving grace. As Christians we need to be mindful of what the Bible says, take care of each other, and pray for those who would want to do us harm, go out of your way for them in how you treat them if you have to as a witness. This is not our home, were just passing through.

I probably have no right to post after being absent for so long. But I had to take a break from prophesy overload and just observe and live without always being on the edge of my seat. I have dealt with troubles also but God has a way of getting your attention and putting us on the right path again. When things are getting tough, lock and load should not be the first reaction, but pull together and lift each other up and help, pray, follow scripture. I may not always do it, im a flawed human, and stubborn man, but we have to try.

 

[mattfivefour]

I have not posted here on RF in a very long time, but after reading this thread I feel compelled to throw my 2 cents in. I hate for anyone to leave, especially when its over a disagreement a stance or view. This whole notion of possible revolution is tricky. If you look at history, Christians have always fought in wars from ancient times to modern days. But that doesnt mean always mean taking up the sword, but we should be fighting using the WORD.

I think times are going to start really getting tough not only in the US but all over, I really cant remember when things have been good all over the globe. But we are on a prophetic slide towards the book of Revelation, if we are not already moving swiftly. I have guns, grew up hunting, fishing, enjoying the outdoors. I could I kill a deer to feed my family, most certainly, and I will also tell you I can make great sausage or deer chili with it! Could I kill an human? I dont know. I am not a sheep in the sense that I will roll over and take anything that comes. I protect my family, believe in the right of free speach, to bear arms, to protect my property. But this is such a different country than what I grew up in during the 60's - 80's. I see cameras on every stop light, even in sleepy country towns. We know something is wrong in our country, and if enough people get fed up or if we have a terrible disaster then some will break and there could be outright lawlessness.

Anyone that really reads and studies the Bible knows whats coming and who the Victory belongs to. Daniel did not take any sort of pepper spray in that dungeon to keep the lions away or have a gun strapped to his hip. He relied on the ONLY thing we can really count on in and that is Gods loving grace. As Christians we need to be mindful of what the Bible says, take care of each other, and pray for those who would want to do us harm, go out of your way for them in how you treat them if you have to as a witness. This is not our home, were just passing through.

I probably have no right to post after being absent for so long. But I had to take a break from prophesy overload and just observe and live without always being on the edge of my seat. I have dealt with troubles also but God has a way of getting your attention and putting us on the right path again. When things are getting tough, lock and load should not be the first reaction, but pull together and lift each other up and help, pray, follow scripture. I may not always do it, im a flawed human, and stubborn man, but we have to try.

My brother, you are a child of the Living God and thus have every right to weigh in on any scriptural matter. These words of yours above are wise and balanced.


(BTW, welcome back. )

 

[Icguy]

Gonna throw my 2cents in here about gun control. Take a deep breath and release slowly. It will help you stay on the target. :