Response to a question by a now banned member

mattfivefour

Well-Known Member
Warum, in the hope that you are still reading here despite having been removed from forum membership due to your persistent references to false teachers and preachers despite having been warned against doing so, I have written the following. I pray it helps you.

My friend, you posed an interesting question in a deleted thread. You asked, "So the more written Word I learn" ... even from false teachers (regardless of who they are) ... because they repeat "a whole bunch of verses from the Pauline Epistles and from the Gospels, that's good for me, right?" Let me help here: the answer, my friend, is a resounding "No!" And I will tell you why.

Romans 12:2 tells us to "be transformed by the renewing of your mind.;" The force of the verb transformed reveals a continual renewing transformation. It is, from the context, clear that the renewing of our minds involves a transformation from conformity to the life of the World to conformity to the life that comes from God.. But how is this renewing of the mind to occur? There are many passages in Scripture that tells us that it is God's Word that renews our minds. Psalm 19:7-11 tells us that:

7 The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul; the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple;
8 The statutes of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart; the commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes;
9 The fear of the Lord is clean, enduring forever; the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether.
10 More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold; sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
11 Moreover by them Your servant is warned, and in keeping them there is great reward.

But perhaps the greatest exposition of this truth is the 119th Psalm. In its verses we find deep and powerful truths that are able to transform us, so much so that entire books have been written on this psalm. In fact, last year I edited a book for Christian author Bernie Lutchman, entitled One One Nine. which he wrote for Christians to teach (as he said) "the lessons that will make a rich intimate walk with their Creator possible." In other words, he wrote it to help reveal its transformational power. Truly the Word of God provides all that we need .

So then, is simply reading or hearing the Word sufficient? If it were, then Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses and adherents of a host of other false religions would be renewed in their minds. But they are not. Why? Because the Word by itself is powerless. In fact, 2 Corinthians 3:6 tells us that the "letter kills," but "the Spirit gives life." You see the Word without the Holy Spirit is just words, although they be God's Words. It is the Holy Spirit who energizes them and uses them to transform us ... by conviction, by instruction, by revelation, by inspiration, and by the discipline of rebuke.

That this is true can be seen in Ephesians 5:25-27. It reads, "Christ loved the church and gave Himself up for her to sanctify her, cleansing her by the washing with water through the Word." Water in the Bible is one of the metaphors for the Holy Spirit. When on the last day of the Feast of Tabernacles Jesus stood up in the Temple and cried out, "If anyone is thirsty, let him come to Me and drink. Whoever believes in Me, as the Scripture has said: ‘Streams of living water will flow from within him’ (John 7:37-38),” we find the next verse explaining that "He was speaking about the Holy Spirit." Water is a symbol of the Holy Spirit. So, to continue with our Ephesians 5 passage regarding the members of Christ's Church being cleansed or washed (the Greek word means to "make pure, "to remove all admixture," in other words transformation from one state to another) by the Holy Spirit through the Word, we find it is "to present her to Himself as a glorious church, without stain or wrinkle or any such blemish, but holy and blameless." Once again the idea of transformation is plainly put forth.

However, without the Holy Spirit Scripture is worse than powerless: it can actually harm ... by leading people into false belief. Every false sect that has sprung up out of Christianity has come from men without the Spirit of God reading and pulling from the Word the ideas that seem right to them. So, reading the Word without being re-born by the Holy Spirit—in other words, without the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, without the direction of the Holy Spirit, without submission to the Holy Spirit—will only lead to death. We MUST read the Word in the light of the ministry of the Holy Spirit. When we do, we find that (to continue our Romans 12:2 verse with which I began) we then "will be able to test and approve what is the good, pleasing, and perfect will of God."

False teachers proclaim a false gospel. And the Holy Spirit, speaking through Paul, is crystal clear about how they are to be treated. In Romans 16:17 he instructs us to "watch out for those who create divisions and obstacles that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Turn away from them." And in Galatians 1:8-9 He is even more blunt. Paul writes, "even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed."

False teachers speak God's words with poison hidden in their message ... a poison that is gathered from somewhere other than the Word of God rightly divided. I am reminded of the story of Elisha and the pot of poisoned stew as recorded in 2 Kings 4:38-41. The account goes like this:

"And Elisha returned to Gilgal, and there was a famine in the land. Now the sons of the prophets were sitting before him; and he said to his servant, 'Put on the large pot, and boil stew for the sons of the prophets.' So one went out into the field to gather herbs, and found a wild vine, and gathered from it a lapful of wild gourds, and came and sliced them into the pot of stew, though they did not know what they were. Then they served it to the men to eat. Now it happened, as they were eating the stew, that they cried out and said, 'Man of God, there is death in the pot!' And they could not eat it. So he said, 'Then bring some flour.' And he put it it into the pot, and said, 'Serve to the people, that they may eat.' And there was nothing harmful in the pot."

The wild gourds were gathered by men who did not know what they were and they were added to the pot. Their intention may have been good, but their choice was bad. The prophets (men of God who discerned the voice of God) instantly knew upon tasting it that it would poison them. Elisha had them add flour (a type of the pure Word of God) to the pot and the stew was no longer harmful.

In the Wilderness, Satan used the words of God out of context to attempt to deceive Jesus into corrupting His ministry. But Jesus in union with the Holy Spirit used the pure Word of God (that is to say, the Word of God in context) to defeat the Devil's plan.

As a pastor, it is my responsibility to feed the flock, to discern danger, to reveal it, and confront it, in order to protect the flock. When I discern poison in the pot, I must act— I must warn, I must protect, and I must quickly add the pure Word of God to make the "stew" safe. Brother, I tell you that the preachers and teachers you have mentioned in previous posts have poison in the stew they provide. For the sake of your soul and those of the people who may rely upon your words as a Christian of long standing, avoid those men and their teaching. No good thing can come from bad trees or flow from bad wells. Please heed my warning and stick to the sound men of God throughout history, not the charlatans who sound good but whose "truth" is not that of God, despite their quoting many of His words.

I pray this helps. If not you, then someone.
 

borrowedtime

Well-Known Member
If I may Matt, I think awhile ago (and in all honestly still am) not on board the most popular view on here that some way some how the Gospel of the Kingdom is compatible with the Gospel of Grace.

I can say as someone who has made Romans through Philemon the pinnacle of my Bible study, that I’m still not sure what Warum was getting at.

I respect your desire to post to him/her. But I think it was an antagonist who had no intensions or debating. With my primary focus in Paul’s epistles I’m not sure where he was going often and his “ive been a Christian for 40 years” seemed like a shut down more than anything. CS Lewis lived the vast majority of his life unsaved and changed after his 40 years so I’m not sure what Warum was getting at.
 

mattfivefour

Well-Known Member
I agree. My spidey senses were tingling every time I read one of his posts. But I do not get to choose the ones to whom I speak. When God lays it on my heart, I have to try to respond. And God doesn't make mistakes. He laid this on my heart; so if Warum is not ever going to see this post, then someone else who needs it will.
 

borrowedtime

Well-Known Member
I totally agree with you and am sorry if that came across as I somehow thought you were crazy/foolish. I’ve often said things amongst deaf ears hoping someone other than the desired target would hear and seeds would be planted and the Lord would water as needed.

In this instance my intentions with my statement don’t apply and I apologize.
 

Andy C

Well-Known Member
I agree. My spidey senses were tingling every time I read one of his posts. But I do not get to choose the ones to whom I speak. When God lays it on my heart, I have to try to respond. And God doesn't make mistakes. He laid this on my heart; so if Warum is not ever going to see this post, then someone else who needs it will.
He was easy to spot, had no intention of a true dialogue.

I hope your Well written message is viewed by him.
 

Kerbluey

Well-Known Member
It’s amusing though that there may be those whose initial motivations were wicked but who ended up getting a dose of truth, hehe. When I was a WoFer I intentionally read debates on the other RR board just to smirk. Lo and behold, all that truth finally sunk in! :D I love that!
 

athenasius

Well-Known Member
Agree with you all. He had a thread and several posts that caught my eye, wanting to know why WOF was wrong, but didn't seem to be interested in an answer. There seems to have been an uptick in this sort of activity lately from all kinds of directions. Kind of like some sort of nasty version of Whack A Mole-- you dealt with that one with the "lovely familiar" name who didn't appear to be Christian at all, then onto the various members of NAR, WOF and other sects who seem to come on merely to "educate" us.

Adrian and Chris THANK YOU BOTH for keeping the boards safe from such poisonous doctrines being inserted into various threads.
 

TheRedeemed

Well-Known Member
This post by Adrian, makes me think about a little alarm bell within that I have inherited since becoming born again.

I am able to discern quite quickly when a pastor, or poster here or writer anywhere else is not biblically sound.

This was not always the case e.g. in my ‘recommended‘ list on YouTube today there was a video with the title ‘Three types of Christians who will be left behind at the rapture’

Ten years ago I would probably have clicked and watched such a video, but today I ejected it from my list without even viewing it.

The Holy Spirit within is responsible for that of course and not me!

The person Adrian alludes to, set my bell a ringing several times and I also felt they insulted a few of us here too. Yet another aspect I watch out for in people claiming to be Christians.

Just for the record too, the pastor in said video is frequently on God TV here in the U.K., but I’ve learned to watch out for most of them on there too over the years. Again ten years ago, and because I knew the pastor from the aforementioned TV channel, would have made me even more likely to watch it back then.

Discernment comes with genuine faith and belief as well as lots of years of reading the Word and sharing opinions with other genuine believers. This was also what Adrian was pointing out.

I am not entirely sure here, but Wurum nar Wurum (or something to that effect) I believe is a phrase that means ‘walk away’, possibly German, or Eastern European.

Perhaps they knew that about their screen name too? That’s what we’re to do with people we encounter who spread a false word and create discord amongst the brethren.
 
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Batfan7

Well-Known Member
I believe the whole book of 2 Peter is dedicated to warnings of false teachers, so it's not something God takes lightly.

Thanks for keeping these boards free of falsehood as much as possible. I've read comments/posts on other sites that are left to stand and sometimes just cringe at the awful falsehood allowed to remain (just because it's a comment). Yuck.
 

Kerbluey

Well-Known Member
Oh, so that guy was WoF?? I never saw his posts. He was here to be argumentive but got truth instead. Exactly what God did with me in leading me out. That’s funny!! I’m not taking deception lightly, just amused by the ways God outsmarts our devious little plans.
 

JamesSuth

Well-Known Member
So then, is simply reading or hearing the Word sufficient? If it were, then Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses and adherents of a host of other false religions would be renewed in their minds. But they are not. Why? Because the Word by itself is powerless. In fact, 2 Corinthians 3:6 tells us that the "letter kills," but "the Spirit gives life." You see the Word without the Holy Spirit is just words, although they be God's Words. It is the Holy Spirit who energizes them and uses them to transform us ... by conviction, by instruction, by revelation, by inspiration, and by the discipline of rebuke.
Well, I found that very helpful. I've often wonder how on earth people could have the Bible and yet not be following Christ. I've read 2 Corinthians 3:6 many times and didn't pick up on what it was saying - without the Spirit the Word alone does not have that power to transform.
 
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