Regarding Babylon:

[usoutpost31]

A summary of my notes on the subject -

• HISTORICAL BABYLON LEFT DESOLATE
  • Isaiah 13:19-20 says that Babylon "will be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah, it will never be inhabited, nor will it be settled from generation to generation;"
  • I take this literally - that the historical city of Babylon will never again be rebuilt. Therefore, "Mystery Babylon" must refer to something else.
• A HARLOT -
  • Revelation 17 refers to "Mystery Babylon" as a harlot on a scarlet beast
  • Ezekiel 16 refers at length to Jerusalem's harlotry
  • Jeremiah 3:6-10 refers several times to Israel as a harlot
  • Eze 6:9 refers to Israel playing the harlot
• ADORNED
  • Revelation 17 refers to Mystery Babylon as "arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls"
  • Exodus 39:1-7 describes the priestly garments as being made of blue, purple, and scarlet thread, with gems in settings of gold
  • 2 Chron 3:4-8,14 describes the temple interior as overlaid with gold, decorated with precious stones, with a veil of blue, purple, and crimson
• DEATHS OF THE PROPHETS
  • In Luke 13:33-34, Jesus says, "for it cannot be that a prophet should perish outside of Jerusalem. O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her!"
  • "perish" is the Greek word apollymi, meaning kill, destroy, ruin, put to death
  • The two witnesses are killed in Jerusalem - "in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified."
  • Mystery Babylon is "drunk with the blood of the saints and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus" (Rev 17:6)
  • "Rejoice over her, O heaven, and you holy apostles and prophets, for God has avenged you on her!" (Rev 18:20)
  • "And in her was found the blood of prophets and saints, and of all who were slain on the earth." (Rev 18:24)
• GREAT CITY
  • "And the woman whom you saw is that great city which reigns over the kings of the earth." (Rev 17:18)
  • "reigns" is the Greek word echō, which can mean to have or hold possession of the mind (refers to alarm, agitating emotions, etc.)
  • Jeremiah 22:8-9 says, "And many nations will pass by this city; and everyone will say to his neighbor, ‘Why has the LORD done so to this great city?’ Then they will answer, ‘Because they have forsaken the covenant of the LORD their God, and worshiped other gods and served them.’"
  • The two witnesses are killed in Jerusalem - "in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified."
  • When the 7th bowl is poured out, "the great city" is divided into three parts
    • In Zechariah 14:3-5, the Lord's feet touch down on the Mount of Olives and it is split - inhabitants of Jerusalem flee through the valley
    • Rev 18:4 - And I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues."
• SEVEN MOUNTAINS
  • "The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits." (Rev 17:9)
  • Historically and geographically, the seven hills of Jerusalem are Mount of Olives, Mount Scopus, Mount of Corruption, Mount Ophel, the Original Mount Zion, the New Mount Zion and the Hill on which the Antonia Fortress was built.
• SIT AS QUEEN
  • Rev 18:7 - "she says in her heart, ‘I sit as queen, and am no widow, and will not see sorrow.’"
  • Deut 29:19 - And so it may not happen, when he hears the words of this curse, that he blesses himself in his heart, saying, 'I shall have peace, even though i follow the dictates of my heart' - as though the drunkard could be included with the sober.
• DESTROYED IN A DAY
  • Rev 17:16 - And the ten horns which you saw on the beast, these will hate the harlot, make her desolate and naked, eat her flesh and burn her with fire.
  • Rev 18:8 - Therefore her plagues will come in one day—death and mourning and famine. And she will be utterly burned with fire, for strong is the Lord God who judges her.
  • Deut 29:20-23 - ‘The whole land is brimstone, salt, and burning; it is not sown, nor does it bear, nor does any grass grow there, like the overthrow of Sodom and Gomorrah, Admah, and Zeboiim, which the LORD overthrew in His anger and His wrath.’
  • Rev 18:19 - For in one hour she is made desolate.
• GLOBAL MOURNING
  • Rev 18:9-19 - the world mourns the fall of Mystery Babylon
  • Deut 29:24 - All nations would say, 'Why has the Lord done so to this land? What does the heat of this great anger mean?'

Also, if the antichrist sets himself up in the temple as a false god, then it would make sense that he would be "reigning" from Jersusalem, and not the historical city of Babylon.

Again, that's a summary of my notes. I've been using mind-mapping software to make a cross-referenced concept map and timeline as I study the end times prophecies.

Zechariah 14 would be in complete contradiction to this. When the Messiah returns, it's not to destroy Jerusalem but to save it.

And the nations of the world are not mourning Jerusalem, they have assembled there to destroy it.

 

[Batman]

So are we thinking the top choices are the true and rebuilt city of Babylon, the city of Jerusalem, the city of Rome, the Vatican, and mystery Babylon as in a system but not a true city? The way the Bible describes the destruction it sure seems like it has to be a city. I recall a great article series on RR several years ago about the campaign of Armageddon or the stages of Armageddon that covered this section as being the literal rebuilt city of Babylon. I love the debate and refuse to get angry or divisive about it but some do get very heated over this. If it is a city that is already built I suppose that makes more sense than a rebuilt Babylon, unless they seriously hurry to get it built and established as it seems to be in the Holy Scriptures.

 

[kboswell]

This person makes the claim the USA is mystery Babylon if I read the article correctly....Front page of RaptureReady.com

America Is Lost; Get Ready To Defend What’s Yours :: By Vanessa P.​

Published on: October 25, 2020 by RRadmin7

Some interesting points for sure, but I've generally leaned towards Rome, or more specifically Vatican City.

 

[Lovin Jesus]

https://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/babylon-wheres-the-mystery/

BABYLON … WHERE’S THE MYSTERY?

Q:
A pastor who I respect greatly for his faithfulness and God given ability to teach, once discussed the Babylon contradiction with me and as time and circumstances develop I believe that he was close to the answer or at least a possible explanation.

On Rev 17 and Zech. 5 two points seem to be in conflict until one thing is taken into consideration, the way literal and symbolic seems to travel in parallel track.

Babylon on the plains of Shinar might point to a political or military center of power. Babylon over the seven hills might be pointing to religious center of power. What do you think?

A:
Almost every attempt to explain Revelation 17-18 begins with the opinion that it can’t be taken literally. I believe that it can. The Mystery Babylon of Rev 17 is a religious power in a city on seven hills. It’s the one-world church of the end times. At the beginning of Rev 17 it is shown in control of the one world government (riders control horses) but by verse 17 the anti-Christ strips away its power, and moves it from Rome to Babylon (Zech 5:5-11). The Babylon of Rev. 18 is the surviving entity, no longer a mystery but an obvious world dominating governmental, commercial, religious entity of which the anti-Christ is both chief executive and object of worship.

 

[castcrowns]

This person makes the claim the USA is mystery Babylon if I read the article correctly....Front page of RaptureReady.com

America Is Lost; Get Ready To Defend What’s Yours :: By Vanessa P.​

Published on: October 25, 2020 by RRadmin7

Some interesting points for sure, but I've generally leaned towards Rome, or more specifically Vatican City.

I'm with you.

I think it's either Rome, or ancient Babylon.

The case for Rome is the seven hills reference, which Rome is famous for. Also, some claim that MB has a port city.
Ancient Rome's seaport is silted up, but the nearest port which serves the city is about an hour away called Civitaveccia.

There is a reference to the land of Shinar. Perhaps shipping is achieved from the Persian Gulf up the Euphrates River?

I doubt that city is in America. Not out of loyalty to my country, but because I don't see it in scripture.

The only scriptural reference to the USA is found in Ezekiel 38:13...as one of the Young Lions of the Merchants of Tarshish.

There is much debate over which country is Tarshish, but it will be known when this prophecy is fulfilled.

I think the Isle of Britain is Tarshish. Both were rich in tin and silver. Tarshish was the intended destination of Jonah, because it was the furthest away.
The Lion is symbolic for England, so the young lions are likely the USA, Canada, and Australia.

 

[Andy C]

https://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/babylon-wheres-the-mystery/

BABYLON … WHERE’S THE MYSTERY?

Q:
A pastor who I respect greatly for his faithfulness and God given ability to teach, once discussed the Babylon contradiction with me and as time and circumstances develop I believe that he was close to the answer or at least a possible explanation.

On Rev 17 and Zech. 5 two points seem to be in conflict until one thing is taken into consideration, the way literal and symbolic seems to travel in parallel track.

Babylon on the plains of Shinar might point to a political or military center of power. Babylon over the seven hills might be pointing to religious center of power. What do you think?

A:
Almost every attempt to explain Revelation 17-18 begins with the opinion that it can’t be taken literally. I believe that it can. The Mystery Babylon of Rev 17 is a religious power in a city on seven hills. It’s the one-world church of the end times. At the beginning of Rev 17 it is shown in control of the one world government (riders control horses) but by verse 17 the anti-Christ strips away its power, and moves it from Rome to Babylon (Zech 5:5-11). The Babylon of Rev. 18 is the surviving entity, no longer a mystery but an obvious world dominating governmental, commercial, religious entity of which the anti-Christ is both chief executive and object of worship.

I agree with Jack.

Dr Arnold Fruchtenbaum calls the OWG religious system, ”The Ecclesiastical Babylon”. For the first half of the tribulation, this is the false religion
for all the people. In the second half of the tribulation, the AC with the FP, will do away with this system and cause all to worship the AC.

Revelation 17 writes about the “Ecclesiastical Babylon”

Revelation 18 writes about the destruction of the actual, physical city of Babylon.

 

[annieforjesus]

This has been a question that has baffled me for years..I know that the other names and terms seem to be literal. but the literal city of Babylon is not on seven hills and the description of the harlot and murderer of the saints just seems to fit Rome... But I just don't know so I'll continue to be confused about it I guess.