Refuting Calvinism

[cheeky200386]

I have to say I have a special hatred for Reformed Theology. When I first got saved, I was quickly ensared by teachers like John Piper and John Macarthur. Reformed teachers dominate YouTube. I didn't know any better and was in constant fear of my salvation status. It was the worst year of my life.

Praise the Lord he showed me the truth through scripture and I have never looked back. Now I'm finding that the homeschool world is inundated with Reformed Theology. It has been anger inducing to say the least. These folks creep into Fundamental Baptist churches too. I ended up debating a couple "visiting our church".

What's worse is that the believers of this doctrine rarely state it upfront. You end up wasting time purchasing a book or watching a video, only to notice a red flag. It seems no amount of scripture will work for these people. Grrrr!

P.s. I will quickly report any posts promoting Calvinism if this thread is allowed to survive.

 

[Andy C]

I have to say I have a special hatred for Reformed Theology. When I first got saved, I was quickly ensared by teachers like John Piper and John Macarthur. Reformed teachers dominate YouTube. I didn't know any better and was in constant fear of my salvation status. It was the worst year of my life.

Praise the Lord he showed me the truth through scripture and I have never looked back. Now I'm finding that the homeschool world is inundated with Reformed Theology. It has been anger inducing to say the least. These folks creep into Fundamental Baptist churches too. I ended up debating a couple "visiting our church".

What's worse is that the believers of this doctrine rarely state it upfront. You end up wasting time purchasing a book or watching a video, only to notice a red flag. It seems no amount of scripture will work for these people. Grrrr!

P.s. I will quickly report any posts promoting Calvinism if this thread is allowed to survive.

Concur with your thoughts. Calvinism is a cancer that is inflicting sickness upon the church.

 

[cheeky200386]

Concur with your thoughts. Calvinism is a cancer that is inflicting sickness upon the church.

How did it get this way? It's like Charismatic doctrine too. It's everywhere. I'm just so frustrated with how we battle with deception in the World but also in the Christian circles.

It just highlights to me the immense responsibility I have as a parent, to make sure my son and daughter on the way know the Bible like the back of their hand. I want them to know the Truth so well that they can sniff error from a mile away. No pressure! Lol

 

[Matthew6:33]

Calvinism is very annoying. I spoke with my brother about it because he started showing signs and red flags. It basically boils down to whether or not Jesus' redemptive work was finished on the cross when He said 'It is finished!' (Your salvation has been paid for!).

The problem also is that they confuse sanctification with salvation. Then while they are in the process of being sanctified they question their salvation

There was a really good post by @Mike Evans a while back with a link to a long testimony by a woman who escaped calvinism. I will try to find it. It may be worth a read.

 

[cheeky200386]

I'm actually thinking I should carry a statement of faith and hand it to every new Christian I meet. I can tell them that if they don't agree, we can't be friends.

 

[Matthew6:33]

It's like Charismatic doctrine too. It's everywhere.

Calvinism is the other side of the swinging pendulum. Usually an unsuspecting Christian will fall to one or the other, get burned, and retreat to the other side. Been there done that!

 

[cheeky200386]

Calvinism is very annoying. I spoke with my brother about it because he started showing signs and red flags. It basically boils down to whether or not Jesus' redemptive work was finished on the cross when He said 'It is finished!' (Your salvation has been paid for!).

The problem also is that they confuse sanctification with salvation. Then while they are in the process of being sanctified they question their salvation

There was a really good post by @Mike Evans a while back with a link to a long testimony by a woman who escaped calvinism. I will try to find it. It may be worth a read.

Thank you. It is so deceptive and destructive. You're right, they truly believe we must never be sure of our salvation when in reality, sanctification is a process and it's not a nice linear line.

 

[cheeky200386]

Calvinism is the other side of the swinging pendulum. Usually an unsuspecting Christian will fall to one or the other, get burned, and retreat to the other side. Been there done that!

I met a couple that left armenianism and then went full Calvinist. It was so upsetting. The wife was convinced she finally found the truth. I just told her, I've been there, done that and you're still not there. Keep studying. She ended the debate. They always do when they have no other scriptures but the same 2-3 they use.

 

[Andy C]

I met a couple that left armenianism and then went full Calvinist. It was so upsetting. The wife was convinced she finally found the truth. I just told her, I've been there, done that and you're still not there. Keep studying. She ended the debate. They always do when they have no other scriptures but the same 2-3 they use.

If that couple has any kids, ask the parents if they are sad that their kids could be going to hell and there is nothing they could ever do about it. Since they believe either your chosen or your not, how horrible it must feel knowing personal choice has no bearing, and that many are hell bound, with no chance of becoming saved.

 

[cheeky200386]

If that couple has any kids, ask the parents if they are sad that their kids could be going to hell and there is nothing they could ever do about it. Since they believe either your chosen or your not, how horrible it must feel knowing personal choice has no bearing, and that many are hell bound, with no chance of becoming saved.

I was tempted to say that but I just decided not to bring it up anymore. We don't really talk anymore. I only hear from their daughter, here and there, because she went to high school with me and she's an unbeliever. I don't see that lasting much longer eirher.

I do wish I had mentioned that before. I have a funny feeling that would not have gone over well. Lol

 

[cheeky200386]

I also love how they always try to end things with saying, "well we just can't be sure of these things and shouldn't think ourselves so arrogant to think we can". It's like huh? Now it's prideful to be sure of what God says about salvation?!

 

[UntilTheWholeWorldHears]

I admit, I don’t know much about Calvinism. What I know, I don’t agree 100%.
I didn’t know they preach you can lose salvation? I thought it was just the opposite of that. Once saved always saved, at least for the elect.
Do they don’t believe in the finished (paid in full) work of Jesus on the cross?

 

[cheeky200386]

I found this long quote from the Berean Call:

"Augustinian teachings that Calvin presented in his Institutes included the sovereignty that made God the cause of all (including sin), the predestination of some to salvation and of others to damnation, election and reprobation, faith as an irresistible gift from God—in fact, the key concepts at the heart of Calvinism.

We search in vain for evidence that Calvin ever disapproved of any of Augustine’s heresies. Calvinist Richard A. Muller admits, “John Calvin was part of a long line of thinkers who based their doctrine of predestination on the Augustinian interpretation of St. Paul.”31 In each expanded edition of his Institutes, Calvin quotes and relies upon Augustine more than ever.

Is Calvinism Really a Protestant Belief?

That many prominent evangelicals today are still under the spell of Augustine is evident—and astonishing, considering his numerous heresies. Norm Geisler has said, “St. Augustine was one of the greatest Christian thinkers of all time.”32 Yet Augustine said, “I should not believe the gospel unless I were moved to do so by the authority of the [Catholic ] Church.”33 That statement was quoted with great satisfaction by Pope John Paul II in his 1986 celebration of the 1600th anniversary of Augustine’s conversion. The Pope went on to say:

Augustine’s legacy...is the theological methods to which he remained absolutely faithful...full adherence to the authority of the faith...revealed through Scripture, Tradition and the Church.... Likewise the profound sense of mystery—“for it is better,” he exclaims, “to have a faithful ignorance than a presumptuous knowledge....” I express once again my fervent desire...that the authoritative teaching of such a great doctor and pastor may flourish ever more happily in the Church....34

In my debate with him, James White claims that “Calvin refuted this very passage in Institutes, and any fair reading of Augustine’s own writings disproves this misrepresentation by Hunt.”35 In fact, Calvin acknowledged the authenticity of the statement and attempted to defend it as legitimate reasoning for those who had not the assurance of faith by the Holy Spirit.36

Vance provides numerous astonishing quotations from Calvinists praising Augustine: “One of the greatest theological and philosophical minds that God has ever so seen fit to give to His church.”37 “The greatest Christian since New Testament times...greatest man that ever wrote Latin.”38 “[His] labors and writings, more than those of any other man in the age in which he lived, contributed to the promotion of sound doctrine and the revival of true religion.”39

Warfield adds, “Augustine determined for all time the doctrine of grace.”40 Yet he [Augustine] believed that grace came through the Roman Catholic sacraments. That Calvinists shower such praise upon Augustine makes it easier to comprehend why they heap the same praise on Calvin."

I find it very interesting and telling.

 

[cheeky200386]

I admit, I don’t know much about Calvinism. What I know, I don’t agree 100%.
I didn’t know they preach you can lose salvation? I thought it was just the opposite of that. Once saved always saved, at least for the elect.
Do they don’t believe in the finished (paid in full) work of Jesus on the cross?

They believe you can never be sure of your salvation. So I was constantly doubting where I was part of the elect. I was relying on whether I felt saved or was being righteous enough. It's disturbing. That if you don't persevere as a Saint that you might not be saved. They equate sanctification with salvation status. God forbid you struggle in sin. According to Calvin, the Corinthians weren't saved, yet we know they were.

 

[seated with Christ]

They believe you can never be sure of your salvation. So I was constantly doubting where I was part of the elect. I was relying on whether I felt saved or was being righteous enough. It's disturbing. That if you don't persevere as a Saint that you might not be saved. They equate sanctification with salvation status. God forbid you struggle in sin. According to Calvin, the Corinthians weren't saved, yet we know they were.

God also lifted me from doubting my standing with God, now I see the sonlight and the shadows are dispersed. Praise God!

 

[Tall Timbers]

I'm actually thinking I should carry a statement of faith and hand it to every new Christian I meet. I can tell them that if they don't agree, we can't be friends.

You might be able to help guide some of those new Christians into a healthy knowledge of their God and new found faith.

 

[Amethyst]

I think it’s a lot easier/better when they are clearly Calvinist.
That way you can run and shake the dust.
The plant I’m at now the pastor (age 30) comes form Fundamental background (not the skirt wearing kind) and he says he does not believe in Limited atonement and likely says he does not ascribe to all Calvinist theology “I have issues with some of what they teach”
But he has recommended various Calvinist authors books like Jerry Bridges
The problem is there’s so much biblical teaching that you can get fed and grow
but kind of wonder OK, are they only growing by listening to other calvinists?

Yea I have my antenna out all the time

But my alternatives here are 3 mega churches (watered down, rarely talk sin, only mistakes)
And sprinkled with small Methodist, Presbyterian churches everywhere.

:::still searching:::

 

[cheeky200386]

You might be able to help guide some of those new Christians into a healthy knowledge of their God and new found faith.

I inspired one of my friends to carry a statement of faith with her. She's been frustrated to find every women she tries to befriend ends up believing in crazy nonsense. Even people that go to an IFB church. They are everywhere!!!

 

[cheeky200386]

I think it’s a lot easier/better when they are clearly Calvinist.
That way you can run and shake the dust.
The plant I’m at now the pastor (age 30) comes form Fundamental background (not the skirt wearing kind) and he says he does not believe in Limited atonement and likely says he does not ascribe to all Calvinist theology “I have issues with some of what they teach”
But he has recommended various Calvinist authors books like Jerry Bridges
The problem is there’s so much biblical teaching that you can get fed and grow but kind of wonder OK, are they only growing by listening to other calvinists?

Yea I have my antenna out all the time

But my alternatives here are 3 mega churches (watered down, rarely talk sin, only mistakes)
And sprinkled with small Methodist, Presbyterian churches everywhere.

:::still searching:::

Yeah this couple I know, was constantly trying to recommend Reformed Theology books and podcasts. I just kept pushing back every time reminding them I fully reject Calvinism. They eventually stopped.

I recommended videos by Billy Crone and they never listened to it, so I'm like yeah ditto.

 

[Matthew6:33]

I inspired one of my friends to carry a statement of faith with her. She's been frustrated to find every women she tries to befriend ends up believing in crazy nonsense. Even people that go to an IFB church. They are everywhere!!!

It's just a sign of the times. The Lord will separate the wheat from the weeds eventually. Prayer helps convict the theologically confused.