Receiving The Spirit Question - Acts 8:14-17

WaitingOnHim

Renewed In Christ
Greetings to my much loved brothers and sisters on RF:

In reading through Acts 8:14-17, new Christians in Samaria were visited by Peter and John, who subsequently prayed for these new believers in order that they (the new believers) "might receive the Holy Spirit". Upon reading this, my first reaction was that the Samarians must not have been true believers to this point, only having knowledge of Christ, but not yet having true, saving faith.

In researching this a little further, David Guzik, quoted in the Blue Letter Bible, offers four trains of thought on this:

The fact that these Christians received the Holy Spirit in what seems to be a subsequent experience to their salvation has caused much controversy; there have been different explanations offered.

i. Some say they were never saved to begin with under Philip's preaching. When Peter and John came, they really trusted in Jesus and then received the Holy Spirit.

ii. Some say they were really saved, and then in a subsequent experience, they received the Holy Spirit in a pattern that believers should follow today.

iii. Some say they were really saved at Philip's preaching, yet God, in a unique move, withheld the gift of the Holy Spirit until it could be bestowed on them by Peter and John. God's purpose in this was to ensure continuity between the church in Jerusalem and the new church in Samaria, guarding against division.

iv. Some say they were really saved and did really receive the Holy Spirit at the time of conversion, but were given special gifts and graces of the Holy Spirit at the laying on of hands by Peter and John.

The last option seems to best explain what happened. Whatever the Samaritans experienced, it seems to have been more than the "regular" bestowal of the Holy Spirit at salvation. This is a filling of the Holy Spirit we should always desire and seek.


I was wondering how my brothers and sisters here interpret this passage of scripture.

Looking forward to your responses. :thumbup

God Bless.
 

TheOvercomers

Well-Known Member
This is very interesting brother. I think that Acts 8:16 rules out the last option. Could it be possible that the words of our Lord as spoken to Nicodemus concerning the Spirit and how he likened Him to the wind, and how it blows where it wants? Does this example in Acts confirm this fact? Now we also know that Jews and Samaritans had no dealings with each other, so I wonder if God used this opportunity to confirm the message of Philip by sending two more Jews and finish the work based on the testimony of "two or three witnesses so that every word may be established"?

Personally, I don't know, but this is very interesting.

God bless.
 

mbrown1219

Heaven's Stables
Here are some other resources which I will share here while I think about your OP (me thinking takes a good long while quite often...)

Acts 8:14-17 "When the apostles in Jerusalem heard tha..." NIV - Online Bible Study

https://bible.org/article/conversion-samaritans-acts-814-17-and-unified-progress-gospel-book-acts
Excerpt from this article:
Conclusion

So, then, since the Spirit was given in the initial outworking of the church in a way that promoted unity in the face of the real threat of disunity, let us not as Christians, use him or his gifts in a way that incites disunity in the body. He is the one who baptizes us into one body (1 Cor 12:13) and the one who gifts us all uniquely for a wonderful blend of diversity (not individualism) within unity (not uniformity). We need to celebrate our unique contributions under the umbrella of the universal Lordship of Christ and a solid understanding of the truth as found in Scripture and our sanctified experience. God is the Master designer of the church. (The reader is encouraged to examine 1 Cor 12-14 with a special focus on chapter 12.)
 

WaitingOnHim

Renewed In Christ
Thank you for the resources, sister Mary!

John Gill, in one of the links, appears to lean towards the belief that the Samaritans had received the Spirit as to salvation, but needed additional strengthening of the Spirit in order to receive and use each one's gifts to the fullest potential.

Acts 8:16
(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them
They had received him as a spirit of illumination and sanctification, and as, a spirit of conversion and faith; they had been regenerated, enlightened, and sanctified by him; and were converted by him, and brought to believe in Christ, and live, by faith upon him; they were baptized believers, and no more; as yet, none of them had gifts qualifying them for the ministry; and still less could any of them speak with tongues, or prophesy, or work miracles; the Holy Ghost had not yet descended on them for such purposes:

only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus:
all as yet appeared in them was, that they were believers in Christ, and had been baptized in his name, upon a profession of their faith; and more than this they had been called to, or qualified for: the word "only", does not respect the form of baptism, as if they had been baptized only in the name of Christ; whereas they were doubtless baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost; but refers to baptism itself, which was the only ordinance as yet administered to them.
 

mbrown1219

Heaven's Stables
More to think about:

Question: "Why had the believers in Samaria not received the Holy Spirit (Acts 8)?"

Answer: In Acts 8:12 we read of a group of Samaritans who “believed Philip as he proclaimed the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, [and] they were baptized, both men and women.” However, when we get to Acts 8:16, we find that “the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.” We understand, based on passages such as 1 Corinthians 12:13, that Christians receive the Holy Spirit at the moment of salvation. How was it that the Samaritans whom Philip evangelized did not receive the Holy Spirit?

First, it is good to remember the book of Acts is a history of how God started the church. It is the record of the transition between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant, and much of what we see in Acts relates to that transition. The Samaritans’ manner of receiving of the Spirit should be taken for what it is—an accurate account of what happened in their case. It should not be construed as normative in every case. The believing Samaritans had been baptized in water, but, for God’s own reasons, they had not yet been baptized in the Spirit.

Second, we should note that the Spirit did come upon the Samaritans (Acts 8:14–17), but not until the apostles Peter and John were present. There are some good reasons why God waited until Peter and John were present before He sent the Holy Spirit upon the Samaritans:

1) Jesus had given Peter the “keys to the kingdom” (Matthew 16:19). Peter was present—and was the main spokesman—at Pentecost (Acts 2), when the Spirit was given to the Jews. Peter was present in Samaria (Acts 8), when the Spirit was given to the Samaritans. And Peter was present in Cornelius’s house (Acts 10), when the Spirit was given to the Gentiles. Jesus used Peter to “open the door” to each of these people groups.

2) The church was to be “built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets” (Ephesians 2:20). Philip had been a deacon in the Jerusalem church, but he was not one of the twelve apostles. Peter and John needed to be in Samaria for the “official” start of the Samaritan church, just as they had been in Jerusalem for the start of the Jewish church.

3) The presence of Peter and John kept the early church unified. Remember, there was great animosity between Jews and Samaritans (John 4:9). If the church in Samaria had begun on its own, with no connection to the “Jewish” church, the church in Jerusalem would never have accepted it. The Samaritans were known historically as corruptors of Judaism (John 4:20). So God made sure that Peter and John, apostles and Jews from Jerusalem, were present to witness the gift of the Spirit given to the Samaritans. God’s message: the church in Samaria was no heretical start-up. The Samaritans were part of the same church that had been started in Jerusalem, and they were filled with the same Spirit (see Galatians 3:28). Peter and John were eyewitnesses. Their testimony was clear: what happened in Samaria was not a separate religious movement. In this way, God prevented the early church from immediately dividing into different sects.

The Lord took pains to ensure the unity of the early church. Jesus had commanded the gospel to be preached in Samaria (Acts 1:8). Philip the evangelist obeyed that command, and God blessed. Whatever animosity existed between the Jews and the Samaritans was overcome by the unity of the Spirit. The church today should continue to “make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace” (Ephesians 4:3).

Recommended Resources: The Holy Spirit by Charles Ryrie and Logos Bible Software.

Read more: Why had the believers in Samaria not received the Holy Spirit (Acts 8)?

And study entire page at this link for various translations of the scripture Galatians 3:28, cross references, and commentaries: http://biblehub.com/galatians/3-28.htm <-----LINK
 

WaitingOnHim

Renewed In Christ
More to think about:

Question: "Why had the believers in Samaria not received the Holy Spirit (Acts 8)?"

Answer: In Acts 8:12 we read of a group of Samaritans who “believed Philip as he proclaimed the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, [and] they were baptized, both men and women.” However, when we get to Acts 8:16, we find that “the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.” We understand, based on passages such as 1 Corinthians 12:13, that Christians receive the Holy Spirit at the moment of salvation. How was it that the Samaritans whom Philip evangelized did not receive the Holy Spirit?

First, it is good to remember the book of Acts is a history of how God started the church. It is the record of the transition between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant, and much of what we see in Acts relates to that transition. The Samaritans’ manner of receiving of the Spirit should be taken for what it is—an accurate account of what happened in their case. It should not be construed as normative in every case. The believing Samaritans had been baptized in water, but, for God’s own reasons, they had not yet been baptized in the Spirit.

Second, we should note that the Spirit did come upon the Samaritans (Acts 8:14–17), but not until the apostles Peter and John were present. There are some good reasons why God waited until Peter and John were present before He sent the Holy Spirit upon the Samaritans:

1) Jesus had given Peter the “keys to the kingdom” (Matthew 16:19). Peter was present—and was the main spokesman—at Pentecost (Acts 2), when the Spirit was given to the Jews. Peter was present in Samaria (Acts 8), when the Spirit was given to the Samaritans. And Peter was present in Cornelius’s house (Acts 10), when the Spirit was given to the Gentiles. Jesus used Peter to “open the door” to each of these people groups.

2) The church was to be “built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets” (Ephesians 2:20). Philip had been a deacon in the Jerusalem church, but he was not one of the twelve apostles. Peter and John needed to be in Samaria for the “official” start of the Samaritan church, just as they had been in Jerusalem for the start of the Jewish church.

3) The presence of Peter and John kept the early church unified. Remember, there was great animosity between Jews and Samaritans (John 4:9). If the church in Samaria had begun on its own, with no connection to the “Jewish” church, the church in Jerusalem would never have accepted it. The Samaritans were known historically as corruptors of Judaism (John 4:20). So God made sure that Peter and John, apostles and Jews from Jerusalem, were present to witness the gift of the Spirit given to the Samaritans. God’s message: the church in Samaria was no heretical start-up. The Samaritans were part of the same church that had been started in Jerusalem, and they were filled with the same Spirit (see Galatians 3:28). Peter and John were eyewitnesses. Their testimony was clear: what happened in Samaria was not a separate religious movement. In this way, God prevented the early church from immediately dividing into different sects.

The Lord took pains to ensure the unity of the early church. Jesus had commanded the gospel to be preached in Samaria (Acts 1:8). Philip the evangelist obeyed that command, and God blessed. Whatever animosity existed between the Jews and the Samaritans was overcome by the unity of the Spirit. The church today should continue to “make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace” (Ephesians 4:3).

Recommended Resources: The Holy Spirit by Charles Ryrie and Logos Bible Software.

Read more: Why had the believers in Samaria not received the Holy Spirit (Acts 8)?

And study entire page at this link for various translations of the scripture, cross references, and commentaries: Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

That makes good sense to me, sister. You are a treasure, indeed. :nod
 

jonshaff

Fellow Servant
Notice Peter is the one who sees all three phases (for lack of better words) of God's Church coming together in the unity of the Spirit.

First Jews, then Samaritans, then Gentiles in Chapter 10 (with Cornelius).

This is seemingly when they received the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, still in line with a sort of "transition phase" from the Law to Grace, or what I'd rather call the Church Age (it's always been about God's Grace through Faith).

Acts 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

they didn't receive a particular gift, they received the indwelling of the Spirit of God

This IS NOT THE NORM, it was the establishment of the CHURCH.

We all receive the Gift of the Holy Spirit upon faithing in Christ.

He continues to fill us with Him as we desire our will to be poured out and His will and power and Grace to be poured in.
 

mbrown1219

Heaven's Stables
:yeah: Oh good, Jon got here in time to save me from having to think! Thank you Jon! That's good payback for me praying you through college. :hug
 

jonshaff

Fellow Servant
:yeah: Oh good, Jon got here in time to save me from having to think! Thank you Jon! That's good payback for me praying you through college. :hug

I typed my response out and forgot to hit send...then I came back and hit send after about a half dozen good responses lol
 

mattfivefour

Well-Known Member
I do not make this an issue which breaks fellowship with others nor do I attempt to force my beliefs on others ... but I personally believe there IS a separate Baptism of the Holy Spirit which endues us from on high. And this has nothing to do with denominational Pentecostalism. I believe it is Scriptural and, in fact, it is something many preachers of old experienced—including one of America's greatest Baptist preachers. Yes, D.L. Moody believed that the Baptism in the Holy Spirit was a second work of grace subsequent to salvation and was necessary for power in service. Indeed, his own ministry seems to support this as it never really took off until after he received this "baptism" in New York. He taught all his Bible School students the need for this "baptism" and most of them received it. And he always insisted that his protege, R. A. Torrey, preach it continually. The following is from R.A. Torrey's sermon on why God used D/L. Moody.

7. Definitely Endued with Power from on High

The seventh thing that was the secret of why God used D. L. Moody was that he had a very definite enduement with power from on High, a very clear and definite baptism with the Holy Ghost. Moody knew he had "the baptism with the Holy Ghost"; he had no doubt about it. In his early days he was a great hustler; he had a tremendous desire to do something, but he had no real power. He worked very largely in the energy of the flesh.​

But there were two humble Free Methodist women who used to come over to his meetings in the Y.M.C.A. One was "Auntie Cook" and the other, Mrs. Snow. (I think her name was not Snow at that time.) These two women would come to Mr. Moody at the close of his meetings and say: "We are praying for you." Finally, Mr. Moody became somewhat nettled and said to them one night: "Why are you praying for me? Why don't you pray for the unsaved?" They replied: "We are praying that you may get the power." Mr. Moody did not know what that meant, but he got to thinking about it, and then went to these women and said: "I wish you would tell me what you mean"; and they told him about the definite baptism with the Holy Ghost. Then he asked that he might pray with them and not they merely pray for him.


Auntie Cook once told me of the intense fervor with which Mr. Moody prayed on that occasion. She told me in words that I scarcely dare repeat, though I have never forgotten them. And he not only prayed with them, but he also prayed alone.


Not long after, one day on his way to England, he was walking up Wall Street in New York; (Mr. Moody very seldom told this and I almost hesitate to tell it) and in the midst of the bustle and hurry of that city his prayer was answered; the power of God fell upon him as he walked up the street and he had to hurry off to the house of a friend and ask that he might have a room by himself, and in that room he stayed alone for hours; and the Holy Ghost came upon him, filling his soul with such joy that at last he had to ask God to withhold His hand, lest he die on the spot from very joy. He went out from that place with the power of the Holy Ghost upon him, and when he got to London (partly through the prayers of a bedridden saint in Mr. Lessey's church), the power of God wrought through him mightily in North London, and hundreds were added to the churches; and that was what led to his being invited over to the wonderful campaign that followed in later years.


Time and again Mr. Moody would come to me and say: "Torrey, I want you to preach on the baptism with the Holy Ghost." I do not know how many times he asked me to speak on that subject. Once, when I had been invited to preach in the Fifth Avenue Presbyterian Church, New York (invited at Mr. Moody's suggestion; had it not been for his suggestion the invitation would never have been extended to me), just before I started for New York, Mr. Moody drove up to my house and said: "Torrey, they want you to preach at the Fifth Avenue Presbyterian Church in New York. It is a great big church, cost a million dollars to build it." Then he continued: "Torrey, I just want to ask one thing of you. I want to tell you what to preach about. You will preach that sermon of yours on 'Ten Reasons Why I Believe the Bible to Be the Word of God' and your sermon on 'The Baptism With the Holy Ghost.'"


Time and again, when a call came to me to go off to some church, he would come up to me and say: "Now, Torrey, be sure and preach on the baptism with the Holy Ghost." I do not know how many times he said that to me. Once I asked him: "Mr. Moody, don't you think I have any sermons but those two: 'Ten Reasons Why I Believe the Bible to Be the Word of God' and 'The Baptism With the Holy Ghost'?" "Never mind that," he replied, "you give them those two sermons.


Once he had some teachers at Northfield — fine men, all of them, but they did not believe in a definite baptism with the Holy Ghost for the individual. They believed that every child of God was baptized with the Holy Ghost, and they did not believe in any special baptism with the Holy Ghost for the individual. Mr. Moody came to me and said: "Torrey, will you come up to my house after the meeting tonight and I will get those men to come, and I want you to talk this thing out with them."


Of course, I very readily consented, and Mr. Moody and I talked for a long time, but they did not altogether see eye to eye with us. And when they went, Mr. Moody signaled me to remain for a few moments. Mr. Moody sat there with his chin on his breast, as he so often sat when he was in deep thought; then he looked up and said: "Oh, why will they split hairs? Why don't they see that this is just the one thing that they themselves need? They are good teachers, they are wonderful teachers, and I am so glad to have them here; but why will they not see that the baptism with the Holy Ghost is just the one touch that they themselves need?"


I shall never forget the eighth of July, 1894, to my dying day. It was the closing day of the Northfield Students' Conference -- the gathering of the students from the eastern colleges. Mr. Moody had asked me to preach on Saturday night and Sunday morning on the baptism with the Holy Ghost. On Saturday night I had spoken about, "The Baptism With the Holy Ghost: What It Is; What It Does; the Need of It and the Possibility of It." On Sunday morning I spoke on "The Baptism With the Holy Spirit: How to Get It." It was just exactly twelve o'clock when I finished my morning sermon, and I took out my watch and said: "Mr. Moody has invited us all to go up to the mountain at three o'clock this afternoon to pray for the power of the Holy Spirit. It is three hours to three o'clock. Some of you cannot wait three hours. You do not need to wait. Go to your rooms; go out into the woods; go to your tent; go anywhere where you can get alone with God and have this matter out with Him."


At three o'clock we all gathered in front of Mr. Moody's mother's house (she was then still living), and then began to pass down the lane, through the gate, up on the mountainside. There were four hundred and fifty-six of us in all; I know the number because Paul Moody counted us as we passed through the gate.​
After a while Mr. Moody said: "I don't think we need to go any further; let us sit down here." We sat down on stumps and logs and on the ground. Mr. Moody said: "Have any of you students anything to say?" I think about seventy-five of them arose, one after the other, and said: "Mr. Moody, I could not wait till three o'clock; I have been alone with God since the morning service, and I believe I have a right to say that I have been baptized with the Holy Spirit."


When these testimonies were over, Mr. Moody said: "Young men, I can't see any reason why we shouldn't kneel down here right now and ask God that the Holy Ghost may fall upon us just as definitely as He fell upon the apostles on the Day of Pentecost. Let us pray." And we did pray, there on the mountainside. As we had gone up the mountainside heavy clouds had been gathering, and just as we began to pray those clouds broke and the raindrops began to fall through the overhanging pines. But there was another cloud that had been gathering over Northfield for ten days, a cloud big with the mercy and grace and power of God; and as we began to pray our prayers seemed to pierce that cloud and the Holy Ghost fell upon us. Men and women, that is what we all need: the Baptism with the Holy Ghost.​
 

jonshaff

Fellow Servant
I do not make this an issue which breaks fellowship with others nor do I attempt to force my beliefs on others ... but I personally believe there IS a separate Baptism of the Holy Spirit which endues us from on high. And this has nothing to do with denominational Pentecostalism. I believe it is Scriptural and, in fact, it is something many preachers of old experienced—including one of America's greatest Baptist preachers. Yes, D.L. Moody believed that the Baptism in the Holy Spirit was a second work of grace subsequent to salvation and was necessary for power in service. Indeed, his own ministry seems to support this as it never really took off until after he received this "baptism" in New York. He taught all his Bible School students the need for this "baptism" and most of them received it. And he always insisted that his protege, R. A. Torrey, preach it continually. The following is from R.A. Torrey's sermon on why God used D/L. Moody.

7. Definitely Endued with Power from on High

The seventh thing that was the secret of why God used D. L. Moody was that he had a very definite enduement with power from on High, a very clear and definite baptism with the Holy Ghost. Moody knew he had "the baptism with the Holy Ghost"; he had no doubt about it. In his early days he was a great hustler; he had a tremendous desire to do something, but he had no real power. He worked very largely in the energy of the flesh.​

But there were two humble Free Methodist women who used to come over to his meetings in the Y.M.C.A. One was "Auntie Cook" and the other, Mrs. Snow. (I think her name was not Snow at that time.) These two women would come to Mr. Moody at the close of his meetings and say: "We are praying for you." Finally, Mr. Moody became somewhat nettled and said to them one night: "Why are you praying for me? Why don't you pray for the unsaved?" They replied: "We are praying that you may get the power." Mr. Moody did not know what that meant, but he got to thinking about it, and then went to these women and said: "I wish you would tell me what you mean"; and they told him about the definite baptism with the Holy Ghost. Then he asked that he might pray with them and not they merely pray for him.


Auntie Cook once told me of the intense fervor with which Mr. Moody prayed on that occasion. She told me in words that I scarcely dare repeat, though I have never forgotten them. And he not only prayed with them, but he also prayed alone.


Not long after, one day on his way to England, he was walking up Wall Street in New York; (Mr. Moody very seldom told this and I almost hesitate to tell it) and in the midst of the bustle and hurry of that city his prayer was answered; the power of God fell upon him as he walked up the street and he had to hurry off to the house of a friend and ask that he might have a room by himself, and in that room he stayed alone for hours; and the Holy Ghost came upon him, filling his soul with such joy that at last he had to ask God to withhold His hand, lest he die on the spot from very joy. He went out from that place with the power of the Holy Ghost upon him, and when he got to London (partly through the prayers of a bedridden saint in Mr. Lessey's church), the power of God wrought through him mightily in North London, and hundreds were added to the churches; and that was what led to his being invited over to the wonderful campaign that followed in later years.


Time and again Mr. Moody would come to me and say: "Torrey, I want you to preach on the baptism with the Holy Ghost." I do not know how many times he asked me to speak on that subject. Once, when I had been invited to preach in the Fifth Avenue Presbyterian Church, New York (invited at Mr. Moody's suggestion; had it not been for his suggestion the invitation would never have been extended to me), just before I started for New York, Mr. Moody drove up to my house and said: "Torrey, they want you to preach at the Fifth Avenue Presbyterian Church in New York. It is a great big church, cost a million dollars to build it." Then he continued: "Torrey, I just want to ask one thing of you. I want to tell you what to preach about. You will preach that sermon of yours on 'Ten Reasons Why I Believe the Bible to Be the Word of God' and your sermon on 'The Baptism With the Holy Ghost.'"


Time and again, when a call came to me to go off to some church, he would come up to me and say: "Now, Torrey, be sure and preach on the baptism with the Holy Ghost." I do not know how many times he said that to me. Once I asked him: "Mr. Moody, don't you think I have any sermons but those two: 'Ten Reasons Why I Believe the Bible to Be the Word of God' and 'The Baptism With the Holy Ghost'?" "Never mind that," he replied, "you give them those two sermons.


Once he had some teachers at Northfield — fine men, all of them, but they did not believe in a definite baptism with the Holy Ghost for the individual. They believed that every child of God was baptized with the Holy Ghost, and they did not believe in any special baptism with the Holy Ghost for the individual. Mr. Moody came to me and said: "Torrey, will you come up to my house after the meeting tonight and I will get those men to come, and I want you to talk this thing out with them."


Of course, I very readily consented, and Mr. Moody and I talked for a long time, but they did not altogether see eye to eye with us. And when they went, Mr. Moody signaled me to remain for a few moments. Mr. Moody sat there with his chin on his breast, as he so often sat when he was in deep thought; then he looked up and said: "Oh, why will they split hairs? Why don't they see that this is just the one thing that they themselves need? They are good teachers, they are wonderful teachers, and I am so glad to have them here; but why will they not see that the baptism with the Holy Ghost is just the one touch that they themselves need?"


I shall never forget the eighth of July, 1894, to my dying day. It was the closing day of the Northfield Students' Conference -- the gathering of the students from the eastern colleges. Mr. Moody had asked me to preach on Saturday night and Sunday morning on the baptism with the Holy Ghost. On Saturday night I had spoken about, "The Baptism With the Holy Ghost: What It Is; What It Does; the Need of It and the Possibility of It." On Sunday morning I spoke on "The Baptism With the Holy Spirit: How to Get It." It was just exactly twelve o'clock when I finished my morning sermon, and I took out my watch and said: "Mr. Moody has invited us all to go up to the mountain at three o'clock this afternoon to pray for the power of the Holy Spirit. It is three hours to three o'clock. Some of you cannot wait three hours. You do not need to wait. Go to your rooms; go out into the woods; go to your tent; go anywhere where you can get alone with God and have this matter out with Him."


At three o'clock we all gathered in front of Mr. Moody's mother's house (she was then still living), and then began to pass down the lane, through the gate, up on the mountainside. There were four hundred and fifty-six of us in all; I know the number because Paul Moody counted us as we passed through the gate.​
After a while Mr. Moody said: "I don't think we need to go any further; let us sit down here." We sat down on stumps and logs and on the ground. Mr. Moody said: "Have any of you students anything to say?" I think about seventy-five of them arose, one after the other, and said: "Mr. Moody, I could not wait till three o'clock; I have been alone with God since the morning service, and I believe I have a right to say that I have been baptized with the Holy Spirit."


When these testimonies were over, Mr. Moody said: "Young men, I can't see any reason why we shouldn't kneel down here right now and ask God that the Holy Ghost may fall upon us just as definitely as He fell upon the apostles on the Day of Pentecost. Let us pray." And we did pray, there on the mountainside. As we had gone up the mountainside heavy clouds had been gathering, and just as we began to pray those clouds broke and the raindrops began to fall through the overhanging pines. But there was another cloud that had been gathering over Northfield for ten days, a cloud big with the mercy and grace and power of God; and as we began to pray our prayers seemed to pierce that cloud and the Holy Ghost fell upon us. Men and women, that is what we all need: the Baptism with the Holy Ghost.​
My dearest brother Adrian, regardless of your stance on the baptism of the Holy Spirit, it's very evident that this passage in question pertains to the initial indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Let us not get this confused. :hug
 

jonshaff

Fellow Servant
I suspect Mr Moody would have disagreed with you.

:scratch:

It's not about mr. Moody's Subjective experience. Scripture is clearly showing a Historical narrative of peoples receiving the Holy Spirit for the first time by the empowered hand of Peter.

What scriptures would refute this?
 

WaitingOnHim

Renewed In Christ
Very interesting discussion and viewpoints on this.

I enjoy reading the different perspectives being offered and appreciate each input!
 

jonshaff

Fellow Servant
I want to add that I'm all FOR the Holy Spirit continuing to empower us and fill us with His Mercies and Graces (unmerited gifts).

2 Timothy 1:6 Wherefore I put thee in remembrance that thou stir up the gift of God, which is in thee by the putting on of my hands.

But in this passage from the OP, we see a special unfolding of the Church, not to be confused with God charging specific individuals for a specific calling.

I pray this makes sense
 

ShilohRose

Well-Known Member
I was reared in a Baptist church, which teaches that the Holy Spirit comes to reside in the believer at the time of salvation. What I'm wondering is this: what is different about this indwelling of the Holy Spirit? If it is an additional gift, I'll baldly say that I want it.
 
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