Reasons why Zep 2 (Ps 83) comes before Ezek 38-39

RandallB

Well-Known Member
Possess land East of Dead Sea (Details)

Ezek 39 –> Gog/Magog buried In Israel, Valley of passengers/Travelers, East of the Dead Sea. (But this area is in Jordan today not Israel?!?!?!?)

Ezekiel 39:11 that God declared "a place there of graves IN ISRAEL" for Gog himself and the entire multitude of his military forces, and then specifically identified that location as the Valley of the Passengers (Travelers) which lies EAST OF THE DEAD SEA.

This valley is located on an east and west axis from the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan town of Dhiban. This land is definitely NOT in Israel today. It is part of Jordan. This area is in ancient Moab. Something must happen between now and Ezek 39 for Israel to possess this land.

Zep 2:9 "Therefore, as surely as I live, declares the LORD of hosts, The God of Israel, Surely Moab will be like Sodom And the sons of Ammon like Gomorrah-- A place possessed by nettles and salt pits, And a perpetual desolation. The remnant of My people will plunder them And the remainder of My nation will inherit them."

Thus Zep 2:9 states that Israel will possess Moab after the Zep judgments occur and & Isaiah 11:13-14 ( as a 2nd witness) agrees. As we have seen before these are the same judgments called for in Ps 83. The Lord Himself confirms this judgement on Moab & Ammon will happen --- “as surely as He lives”!!! This will definitely happen.

Isaiah 11:13-14: “Ephraim (House of Israel) will not be jealous of Judah (the Jews), nor Judah hostile toward Ephraim. They will swoop down on the slopes of Philistia (modern day Gaza) to the west; together they will plunder the people to the east. They will subdue Edom and Moab, and the Ammonites (modern day Jordan) will be subject to them.”

Therefore Zep 2 (& Ps 83) & Isa 11:13-14 MUST occur before Ezek 38/39. This will enable the burying of Ezek 39 "In Israel" , "Valley of Passengers/Travelers".

One of my favorite eschatologists, Dr. Arnold Fruchtenbaum, also teaches that Ezek 38/39 must occur at least 3.5 years BEFORE the Tribulation because of the "7 year burying of weapons issue".. So Zep 2 MUST happen even before then by a few months to a few years….

Here is the microphone drop --->

Zep 2 is talking about the Lord judging the nations that surround Israel in "His Wrath".
Christians are promised to be kept from the Time and the Place of His Wrath.
 

Jaybird

Well-Known Member
Possess land East of Dead Sea (Details)

Ezek 39 –> Gog/Magog buried In Israel, Valley of passengers/Travelers, East of the Dead Sea. (But this area is in Jordan today not Israel?!?!?!?)

Ezekiel 39:11 that God declared "a place there of graves IN ISRAEL" for Gog himself and the entire multitude of his military forces, and then specifically identified that location as the Valley of the Passengers (Travelers) which lies EAST OF THE DEAD SEA.

This valley is located on an east and west axis from the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan town of Dhiban. This land is definitely NOT in Israel today. It is part of Jordan. This area is in ancient Moab. Something must happen between now and Ezek 39 for Israel to possess this land.

Zep 2:9 "Therefore, as surely as I live, declares the LORD of hosts, The God of Israel, Surely Moab will be like Sodom And the sons of Ammon like Gomorrah-- A place possessed by nettles and salt pits, And a perpetual desolation. The remnant of My people will plunder them And the remainder of My nation will inherit them."

Thus Zep 2:9 states that Israel will possess Moab after the Zep judgments occur and & Isaiah 11:13-14 ( as a 2nd witness) agrees. As we have seen before these are the same judgments called for in Ps 83. The Lord Himself confirms this judgement on Moab & Ammon will happen --- “as surely as He lives”!!! This will definitely happen.

Isaiah 11:13-14: “Ephraim (House of Israel) will not be jealous of Judah (the Jews), nor Judah hostile toward Ephraim. They will swoop down on the slopes of Philistia (modern day Gaza) to the west; together they will plunder the people to the east. They will subdue Edom and Moab, and the Ammonites (modern day Jordan) will be subject to them.”

Therefore Zep 2 (& Ps 83) & Isa 11:13-14 MUST occur before Ezek 38/39. This will enable the burying of Ezek 39 "In Israel" , "Valley of Passengers/Travelers".

One of my favorite eschatologists, Dr. Arnold Fruchtenbaum, also teaches that Ezek 38/39 must occur at least 3.5 years BEFORE the Tribulation because of the "7 year burying of weapons issue".. So Zep 2 MUST happen even before then by a few months to a few years….

Here is the microphone drop --->

Zep 2 is talking about the Lord judging the nations that surround Israel in "His Wrath".
Christians are promised to be kept from the Time and the Place of His Wrath.
Very interesting post. It's not hard to believe that Ps 83 might occur in the near future. Damascus is the location of an airport that Russia uses as a base in the region to import weapons. I read an article over the weekend that Russia and Iran are putting pressure on Syria's Assad to relinquish control of Syria and flee the country. This would put Russia/Iran in control of Syria. We really haven't heard much from Assad as he is not a dominate voice in the region. However, if he flees Syria and Russia/Iran take control of Syria then Damascus becomes more critical and Syria seems like the perfect place to be launch an attack on Israel at some point in the future to take spoils (Ezek 38/39). Whatever the sequence of events turn out to be we can see the stage being set.
 

Starcrystal

Well-Known Member
All of the present activity is setting the stage. And it's happening at a fairly quick pace, similar to WW2.
Of course Isaiah 17 Damascus gets destroyed - perhaps a reason for Russia to attack with their coalition. Note also, in Ezekiel 38 Syria is NOT mentioned as part of that coalition that comes upon Israel. All the other north places are mentioned, but Syria has been Syria all along, while the other places names have changed.
 

katt

Well-Known Member
........ in Ezekiel 38 Syria is NOT mentioned as part of that coalition that comes upon Israel. All the other north places are mentioned, but Syria has been Syria all along, while the other places names have changed.
Babylon is also not mentioned, makes one wonder what happens to Iraq before Ezekiel 38?
 

Starcrystal

Well-Known Member
Babylon is also not mentioned, makes one wonder what happens to Iraq before Ezekiel 38?

Original Babylon was destroyed. Babylon has historically been associated with Rome & the Vatican, or a part of the Revived Roman Empire. When dealing with the Roman Empire in Daniel & Revelation, the 10 horns, 7 heads, 7 kings, etc, we also have to consider that the same 7 nations left that became Western Europe after the Ostrogoths, Heruli & vandals were destroyed or absorbed, are the same exact nations that "discovered" and then settled the Americas - specifically North America, since only Spain & Portugal ended up in Central & South America.
Those nations are Spain, Portugal, Britain, Italy, Switzerland, France, Germany.
Keep in mind the Netherlands, or Holland is of same ancestry as Germany, and Belgium has ancestral ties to both France & Netherlands.
These are all the people who came to the Americas from Columbus time till American independence in late 1700s. That covers all western European nations, so we can consider prophetically USA & Canada along with Europe as the financial Babylon at least. Iraq simply does not fit many of the descriptions of Revelations MYSTERY BABYLON.
 

katt

Well-Known Member
Original Babylon was destroyed. Babylon has historically been associated with Rome & the Vatican, or a part of the Revived Roman Empire. When dealing with the Roman Empire in Daniel & Revelation, the 10 horns, 7 heads, 7 kings, etc, we also have to consider that the same 7 nations left that became Western Europe after the Ostrogoths, Heruli & vandals were destroyed or absorbed, are the same exact nations that "discovered" and then settled the Americas - specifically North America, since only Spain & Portugal ended up in Central & South America.
Those nations are Spain, Portugal, Britain, Italy, Switzerland, France, Germany.
Keep in mind the Netherlands, or Holland is of same ancestry as Germany, and Belgium has ancestral ties to both France & Netherlands.
These are all the people who came to the Americas from Columbus time till American independence in late 1700s. That covers all western European nations, so we can consider prophetically USA & Canada along with Europe as the financial Babylon at least. Iraq simply does not fit many of the descriptions of Revelations MYSTERY BABYLON.
I would understand your explanation if it were not confusing the Ezekiel war with Armageddon. Iraq is Babylon just as Iran is Persia, I'd have to look it up, but in Ezekiel's day, I don't believe Persia had conquered Babylon. It is intriguing that Babylon is not on the list, this could mean that Persia had indeed conquered Babylon, which could also mean that Babylon (Iraq) could be in the coalition by default, which is something that has never occurred to me.
 

Starcrystal

Well-Known Member
I would understand your explanation if it were not confusing the Ezekiel war with Armageddon. Iraq is Babylon just as Iran is Persia, I'd have to look it up, but in Ezekiel's day, I don't believe Persia had conquered Babylon. It is intriguing that Babylon is not on the list, this could mean that Persia had indeed conquered Babylon, which could also mean that Babylon (Iraq) could be in the coalition by default, which is something that has never occurred to me.


During the Babylonian captivity, with Babylon still in power, way before Cyrus. His prophecies span from about 593 to 571 BC. Babylon doesn't fall to the Persians until October 539 BC

Ezekiel 1:2-3 "In the fifth day of the month, which was the fifth year of king Jehoiachin’s captivity, 3 the word of the Lord came expressly unto Ezekiel the priest"

Ezekiel 29:17-20 "And it came to pass in the seven and twentieth year, in the first month, in the first day of the month, the word of the Lord came unto me, saying, Son of man, Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon caused his army to serve a great service against Tyrus: every head was made bald, and every shoulder was peeled: yet had he no wages, nor his army, for Tyrus, for the service that he had served against it: therefore thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will give the land of Egypt unto Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon; and he shall take her multitude, and take her spoil, and take her prey; and it shall be the wages for his army. I have given him the land of Egypt for his labour wherewith he served against it, because they wrought for me, saith the Lord God."

However, I still believe modern Babylon to be Rome/Europe, and by extension N. America, which would include the NATO alliance. That would be the Mystery Babylon in Revelation 17 & 18. I don't believe Ezekiel 38-39 is Armageddon. It does not involve the entire world. Many nations are not mentioned, and/or sit out (Ezek. 38:13)
"Sheba, and Dedan, and the merchants of Tarshish, with all the young lions thereof, shall say unto thee, Art thou come to take a spoil? hast thou gathered thy company to take a prey? to carry away silver and gold, to take away cattle and goods, to take a great spoil?"

Some also believe the young lions of Tarshish to be America. This is from Oxford Bible Church in UK:
"The Merchants of Tarshish are not part of the invading forces for they protest against Russia when she invades Israel.Tarshish in Ezekiel's day was in the farthest western regions of the known world (Spain and/or the British Isles). It was wealthy and flourishing, exporting silver, iron, tin and lead through the seafaring Phoenicians (Jeremiah 10:9; Ezekiel 27:12,25). This hints at it being the UK. Tarshish occupied the uttermost parts of the west. It could be used by Ezekiel to represent the nations of western Europe that will join Saudi Arabia in denouncing the invasion. When God commanded Jonah to go preach to Nineveh (500 miles NE of Israel), he headed to Tarshish, which was as far in the other direction as he could go (see Jonah 1:1-3).

Tarshish is associated in Scripture with the West. “The western kings of Tarshish and the islands will bring him tribute”(Psalm 72:10, NLT).

The Merchants of Tarshish receive their name from the ancient city of Tarshish, where they once traded their goods. These merchant men could represent all of the nations of Western Europe that would one day become the Roman Empire.

Biblical Tarshish may be Tartessus, a Phoenician colony, an important outpost in a string of colonies that extended as far north as the tin islands of Britain. Tin was used in making bronze and was worth a fortune in eastern markets. The Phoenicians had virtual monopoly of the trade, and Tartessus was one of their important terminals for the shipment of the wealth of the world between east and west. Tarshish was a maritime centre of great importance, linked with Palestine and with contacts as far west as the ancients went. This gives us some clues for identifying prophetic Tarshish.

Note that Ezekiel refers not just to Tarshish, but to “the merchants of Tarshish with all its villages” (NASB) or“Tarshish, with all its young lions” (KJV). This phrase is a Hebrew idiom meaning nations that have come out of Tarshish. The young lions of Tarshish are a reference to the colonies that emerged from Britain and Europe - including the USA. Out of the Merchants of Tarshish came the colonial Empires. The most successful of these was Great Britain. The symbol of Great Britain is a lion. That symbol exists to this day and no other empire had more young lions than Great Britain. The present young lions are the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and the Commonwealth. These young lion nations that came out of the British Empire have generally been pro-Israel. "
 
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