Reality check!


Well-Known Member
I definitely did not mean that. I meant that a person who knows the Lord personally, daily, who has a good solid relationship with Him, will not participate in this holiday once they've been told why its a bad idea. Honestly I can't fathom even a new Christian wanting to mix in with that stuff.

But no, it's more about our fruits showing our salvation vs trying to earn our salvation. We cannot ever earn it. But if we ARE saved, our actions/speech/desires/growth in the Lord will show that Salvation.
Ahh, I understand! The Spirit changes our mind and heart, and our behavior should resemble that.
Thank you for clarifying!


Staff member
That's a wise response all around.

I just don't want to abuse His grace and mercy, and do my best not to. So many Christians treat His grace/mercy like a credit card with no limit... Willfully sinning and just expecting to be forgiven afterwards. It's not right.
No, none of us want to either. However, the Lord knows us better than we know ourselves. Our salvation was nothing we could ever earn or work for ourselves. The Bible tells that just one sin eternally separates us from God. That one sin for all of us was a long time ago. I doubt any of us will remember what our first sin was.

Of course, being saved doesn't give us a "license" to sin either. But once a person is saved and sealed with the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption, we belong to God and if we sin we are to confess and ask for forgiveness then he will forget them. His mercies are new every day.

Remember, Jesus said his yoke is easy. The Bible says that Jesus did not come into the world to condemn the world, as it was already condemned. He came to save through His work on the Cross for all that would accept it.

The apostle Paul talked about the sin nature causing him to do what he did not want to do. Jesus knows this. He came so that we can be free. :thumbup


♥ Standing with Israel
I apologize if my post comes off as condescending and condemning.

That's also not my intention.

This topic has been something the Lord has convicted me on very strongly over the years and I wanted to be clear. The original responses I recieved from it were all about why it's fine and not to judge people. I judge others Biblically. I judge them with the same standard I expect to be judged with. To me, that IS edification. But many christians don't want to hear hard truths.

I wrote it out in such a way that no one could twist my words or meanings.
Thank you for replying. First impressions, even online, can set the tone for how a poster is perceived/received for a very long time, and I wanted to correctly see where you were coming from right from the start. :)

Umbrella Girl

Now we see through a glass, darkly; (1 Cor 13:12)
Several good points in the article you wrote. Yet I think it’s a fine line we walk between being righteous and being “judgy”.

As far as churches hosting “Trunk or Treat”, I see nothing wrong with that. It’s a safe, fun alternative to Halloween for the kids, where nothing with the appearance of evil is allowed.


Well-Known Member
Yeah, I really don't subscribe to legalistic Christianity. I think its just as ridiculous as any other extreme of our Faith. What I try to do is consult Him on my decisions and follow His will as much as humanly possible (with His guidance.) I believe if someone is really truly saved they will be basically best friends with Jesus and actually know Him. He wants to know each of us, and wants us to join Him when we die. He loves us and I love to love Him right back, so I do all I can to show Him my devotion. I mean, don't spouses do that for their mate? I think it only natural to do the same for the One who laid down His life for me.

I don't think anything I do/say, no matter how well or right or wrong I do/say it, is going to earn me eternity at His side.
Salvation is not something that can be earned, it's a supernatural transaction so to speak and a drastic change occurs to our spirit at the moment of redemption. That change might not be immediately obvious on the outside, but I do believe that our speech/actions/etc will show our relationship with Him.

And I believe that one can and should (circumstances appropriate) judge a professing Christian by their fruits.
The Bible is pretty clear about judging. I judge no one, for how you judge others, you will be judged. I have enough of my own problems and weaknesses to be judging another's problems or weaknesses. I prefer to pray over them.

There's only one Judge and his name is Jesus.


Well-Known Member
I think we christians might need a reality check.

I'm going to preface this post with this: the Bible teaches that certain things are abominable to the Lord, and yet some of those things are openly celebrated by christians. (Magic, other gods, spiritism and mediums, etc).

It's a contentious topic, but regardless the discussion is started with the obvious premise having been established that:
According to God, if we literally take Him at His word, magic, spiritism, mediums, other gods etc, is bad.
(I will say that's made very plain in the Bible if you need the proof.)

Most of us would also agree that condoning and or participating in something that’s categorically and undeniably sinful/bad/evil is not okay.

But what about if the bad thing also offered some wholesome stuff too, say to market to a bigger group of people? Should we attend this mainly bad thing just because some okay stuff has been added to it? No. Of course not.
Similarly, adding a sprig of flowers to a glass of poison doesn't change the fact that poison is not something to mess with.

If there was an event approaching that most of the world considered bad or morally reprehensible, you wouldn't think christians would attend it. A lot of good people in general wouldn't go near it.
In fact, most decent people would either openly protest against it or avoid it entirely, to say the least.

To prove this point, consider this: the following illustration is an (obviously fictional) parallel situation which I purposely made as evil as I could imagine, in order to clearly illustrate the widely understood concept that no matter what's added to something or what it's labeled as, bad is still bad, good is still good and that's just that.

The illustration:
A movie is playing. In it, a group of Christians get invited to a literal satanic child sacrifice celebration in the woods and decide to go to it because (and here it is) that's not all the event will offer, there will be family friendly activities happening too for people who may not want to participate in the darker ritual. The only thing a person has to do to enjoy those family friendly activities is show up and decide what they'll participate in once they get there.

Now, whether this was just a movie or if in real life you somehow walked in on a bunch of christians hanging out at such an event, (even if they weren't actively participating in the evil act itself), would you think they really belonged to Christ? This is assuming that they are doing their own wholesome thing with their friends and family at this event while other people are in the near vicinity "doing their own thing" (the sacrifice) as well.

Be honest. You would not believe any of those people are christian. No. You'd be horrified that such a thing was happening at all. Even not knowing why the christians were there, merely seeing them hanging out doing their own thing at an event like that, you would be just as horrified that these people *who call themselves christians* weren't trying to put a stop to it! You'd be wondering why they weren't at least dragging their loved ones away from it in horror. From the christians' behavior and body language you would also intuit something else: those christians chose to be there, because they are not acting like hostages, or dazed individuals transported in unwillingly, but instead like people purposely attending an event they had access to. You'd also know that them attending for any reason other than to try to stop it from happening is wrong, it's blatent condoning if not celebrating the evil act being done in their midst, and you would be dismayed at their display of apathy towards evil.

Celebrating halloween is the same thing for christians.

I know, I know. You don't believe me. You don't agree.

You yell, "but kids dressing up in costumes and little magic wands and fae wings is nowhere near the same level of worldly or evil as a satanic child sacrifice!"

To us humans, that may seem true.

However, (though mostly ignored) there is overwhelming evidence to the contrary from countless individuals who were heavily involved in the occult before finding Jesus, people who keep testifying that it *is* the same, and knowing what they know, they are totally gobsmacked that christians participate in halloween.
They say that if christians knew what they knew, no way would they participate in that kind of activity.

So I tell people. Others tell people. So that they know what the former occultist-turned-christian knows.

And the average person couldn't care less, they just brush it off.

*But God does not brush it off.*

To God, sin is sin.

Bad is bad.

"But she's just *pretending* to be a witch/faerie/goblin! That's not the same as actually practicing witchcraft!"

Really? Do you think demons care about that?

No! They'll take any opening we give them and latch onto our lives. Remember that they work for the one whose sole purpose is to kill, steal and destroy.

All they're looking for is one little crack, one little deliberate sin and they'll dive in, doing all they can to simultaneously open the door wider and wreck that person's life. And unfortunately that person will have given them the legal right to do so. They especially love when a believer lets them in. That's like sweet nectar to them.

"Come on," you say. "God doesn't pay that much attention/ care that much if I celebrate halloween my way. He understands I'm trying to give my kids a normal childhood/witness to the lost for Him."

Do you honestly believe that those kind of semantics are going to hold up in front of a Holy God?
For that matter, do you even really know what Holy means?

"My sin isn't as bad as *his* sin. I should totally be allowed into heaven."

Not how it works, Biblically. The Truth is the Truth. It's not subjective. Sin is sin.

And no sin is going to enter into Heaven.

"You're just being legalistic!"

Ah, the timeless response of believers who don't like being convicted of their sin.
Please try to remember that claiming God didn't say something, doesn't actually remove the fact that He really did say it. Emphatically, I might add.

"Whatever! I don't have to listen to you!"

You're right. You don't. You have free will. So do what you want, but make no mistake about it: God will not be mocked and He won't be manipulated.

Now, to be clear, I don't want to act like a pharisee. I won't question the fact that on any day and in any circumstance Jesus would be out tending to and loving the masses to Him, even on halloween.

That's what the pharisees hated, that he mingled with sinners.

What they missed, however, was that he was not condoning their sin. He was loving them in spite of it, forgiving them of it, and then telling them to sin no more.

He did not participate in drugs or overindulge in alcohol, He didn't participate in practices that worship other gods in order to reach the lost. No. He was just Himself for them, an example of what to be, and many *left their sinful ways behind* and followed *Him* and *His ways* instead.


That is the difference between what Jesus and His disciples did, and what believers celebrating holloween nowadays do. They're having "trunk or treat" parties and going trick-or-treating with their kids. They're claiming it's what Jesus would have done, that He would have mingled to reach the lost.

Not like that, He wouldn't. He *didn't.*

Read the Bible! He told them to stop sinning. He didn't do what they did while loving them away from it.

But nowadays that's what these pastors/christians will imply, many even outright claim it.

And that's not acceptable.

We're not supposed to sin with those sinning against God in order to win them to Him.
We approach them, yes. We insert ourselves into their lives where possible and show them a different way to be, yes.
But we are not to indulge in/condone/ignore their sin.

If their sin is something we're currently wrestling with then we have zero business trying to edify them about that sin, or even being around them. If we're being real with ourselves, we'll admit that being around a sin that we ourselves are struggling to stop indulging in is only going to entice us to join in on it. No one in that scenario is going to walk away a victor.
If we really want to serve evangelically we should be careful to serve people with different sins than the ones we're struggling with so we can encourage and strengthen one another in the daily battle, without the risk of dragging each other down.

We are to lovingly act and talk like Jesus when in the midst of the lost, so that we may win them to Him with His example. We are to show them the way they should go, not walk in sin with them and merely describe Jesus to them.

We should be keeping ourselves separate from their chosen sins, loving them into acting the way Jesus acted instead.

That's why so many evangelical attempts don't take. The evangelised see no difference between themselves and us. They don't see a supernaturally changed life. Christians should stand out starkly from the rest of the world's humans. We're supposed to be a light to those stuck in the dark.

Would you go to a drug addict and participate in drugs with them while trying to convince them to stop using drugs? No. Of course you wouldn't.

Why can't people see that this is the same thing? I'll tell you why. Because participating in halloween is more fun than not, and it makes us more acceptable with the ones we're trying to reach. That's why.

But we are not called to be acceptable to the world, blend in or participate with the world. We are called to be in the world, yes, but not of it. Never of it.

There's a huge difference between how Jesus won the lost to Himself and how pastors/christians are trying to do it in our modern times.

Christians are not doing it the way the Bible says Jesus wants them to do it, they're not submitting their will to Him. They're acting on their own will instead; just assuming He's condoning what they're choosing to do because they're Christian, instead of sincerely asking Him and listening for His response, and as a result, more and more people are being led astray.

As Christians we have a responsibility to lovingly and firmly tell the truth. Even if no one likes it.

Even if no one wants to hear it.

Even if it gets us downvoted or taken down.

Even if it costs us everything.

We know this because Jesus taught us to follow His example of living, and He even sacrificed His very life so that the Truth could set us free.

What are we doing with our freedom?

I see your point and understand it. Satan likes to use to bait to draw in his victims. Kids find out about Santa and the Easter Bunny so they will start to question God as well. Kids dress up as a witch or whatever then they may grow interested in it later on.
I definitely did not mean that. I meant that a person who knows the Lord personally, daily, who has a good solid relationship with Him, will not participate in this holiday once they've been told why its a bad idea. Honestly I can't fathom even a new Christian wanting to mix in with that stuff.

Honestly, except for Thanksgiving I have no problem avoiding all holy days.

People even take issue with Thanksgiving.

But others love Christmas, Easter and other holy days, so I'm not bothered if that's what they want.

I am that guy who thinks of every day as the same.