Reality check!

SaraH67

Member
I think we christians might need a reality check.

I'm going to preface this post with this: the Bible teaches that certain things are abominable to the Lord, and yet some of those things are openly celebrated by christians. (Magic, other gods, spiritism and mediums, etc).

It's a contentious topic, but regardless the discussion is started with the obvious premise having been established that:
According to God, if we literally take Him at His word, magic, spiritism, mediums, other gods etc, is bad.
(I will say that's made very plain in the Bible if you need the proof.)

Most of us would also agree that condoning and or participating in something that’s categorically and undeniably sinful/bad/evil is not okay.

But what about if the bad thing also offered some wholesome stuff too, say to market to a bigger group of people? Should we attend this mainly bad thing just because some okay stuff has been added to it? No. Of course not.
Similarly, adding a sprig of flowers to a glass of poison doesn't change the fact that poison is not something to mess with.

If there was an event approaching that most of the world considered bad or morally reprehensible, you wouldn't think christians would attend it. A lot of good people in general wouldn't go near it.
In fact, most decent people would either openly protest against it or avoid it entirely, to say the least.

To prove this point, consider this: the following illustration is an (obviously fictional) parallel situation which I purposely made as evil as I could imagine, in order to clearly illustrate the widely understood concept that no matter what's added to something or what it's labeled as, bad is still bad, good is still good and that's just that.

The illustration:
A movie is playing. In it, a group of Christians get invited to a literal satanic child sacrifice celebration in the woods and decide to go to it because (and here it is) that's not all the event will offer, there will be family friendly activities happening too for people who may not want to participate in the darker ritual. The only thing a person has to do to enjoy those family friendly activities is show up and decide what they'll participate in once they get there.

Now, whether this was just a movie or if in real life you somehow walked in on a bunch of christians hanging out at such an event, (even if they weren't actively participating in the evil act itself), would you think they really belonged to Christ? This is assuming that they are doing their own wholesome thing with their friends and family at this event while other people are in the near vicinity "doing their own thing" (the sacrifice) as well.

Be honest. You would not believe any of those people are christian. No. You'd be horrified that such a thing was happening at all. Even not knowing why the christians were there, merely seeing them hanging out doing their own thing at an event like that, you would be just as horrified that these people *who call themselves christians* weren't trying to put a stop to it! You'd be wondering why they weren't at least dragging their loved ones away from it in horror. From the christians' behavior and body language you would also intuit something else: those christians chose to be there, because they are not acting like hostages, or dazed individuals transported in unwillingly, but instead like people purposely attending an event they had access to. You'd also know that them attending for any reason other than to try to stop it from happening is wrong, it's blatent condoning if not celebrating the evil act being done in their midst, and you would be dismayed at their display of apathy towards evil.

Celebrating halloween is the same thing for christians.

I know, I know. You don't believe me. You don't agree.

You yell, "but kids dressing up in costumes and little magic wands and fae wings is nowhere near the same level of worldly or evil as a satanic child sacrifice!"

To us humans, that may seem true.

However, (though mostly ignored) there is overwhelming evidence to the contrary from countless individuals who were heavily involved in the occult before finding Jesus, people who keep testifying that it *is* the same, and knowing what they know, they are totally gobsmacked that christians participate in halloween.
They say that if christians knew what they knew, no way would they participate in that kind of activity.

So I tell people. Others tell people. So that they know what the former occultist-turned-christian knows.

And the average person couldn't care less, they just brush it off.

*But God does not brush it off.*

To God, sin is sin.

Bad is bad.

"But she's just *pretending* to be a witch/faerie/goblin! That's not the same as actually practicing witchcraft!"

Really? Do you think demons care about that?

No! They'll take any opening we give them and latch onto our lives. Remember that they work for the one whose sole purpose is to kill, steal and destroy.

All they're looking for is one little crack, one little deliberate sin and they'll dive in, doing all they can to simultaneously open the door wider and wreck that person's life. And unfortunately that person will have given them the legal right to do so. They especially love when a believer lets them in. That's like sweet nectar to them.

"Come on," you say. "God doesn't pay that much attention/ care that much if I celebrate halloween my way. He understands I'm trying to give my kids a normal childhood/witness to the lost for Him."

Do you honestly believe that those kind of semantics are going to hold up in front of a Holy God?
For that matter, do you even really know what Holy means?

"My sin isn't as bad as *his* sin. I should totally be allowed into heaven."

Not how it works, Biblically. The Truth is the Truth. It's not subjective. Sin is sin.

And no sin is going to enter into Heaven.

"You're just being legalistic!"

Ah, the timeless response of believers who don't like being convicted of their sin.
Please try to remember that claiming God didn't say something, doesn't actually remove the fact that He really did say it. Emphatically, I might add.

"Whatever! I don't have to listen to you!"

You're right. You don't. You have free will. So do what you want, but make no mistake about it: God will not be mocked and He won't be manipulated.

Now, to be clear, I don't want to act like a pharisee. I won't question the fact that on any day and in any circumstance Jesus would be out tending to and loving the masses to Him, even on halloween.

That's what the pharisees hated, that he mingled with sinners.

What they missed, however, was that he was not condoning their sin. He was loving them in spite of it, forgiving them of it, and then telling them to sin no more.

He did not participate in drugs or overindulge in alcohol, He didn't participate in practices that worship other gods in order to reach the lost. No. He was just Himself for them, an example of what to be, and many *left their sinful ways behind* and followed *Him* and *His ways* instead.

*Instead.*

That is the difference between what Jesus and His disciples did, and what believers celebrating holloween nowadays do. They're having "trunk or treat" parties and going trick-or-treating with their kids. They're claiming it's what Jesus would have done, that He would have mingled to reach the lost.

Not like that, He wouldn't. He *didn't.*

Read the Bible! He told them to stop sinning. He didn't do what they did while loving them away from it.

But nowadays that's what these pastors/christians will imply, many even outright claim it.

And that's not acceptable.

We're not supposed to sin with those sinning against God in order to win them to Him.
We approach them, yes. We insert ourselves into their lives where possible and show them a different way to be, yes.
But we are not to indulge in/condone/ignore their sin.

If their sin is something we're currently wrestling with then we have zero business trying to edify them about that sin, or even being around them. If we're being real with ourselves, we'll admit that being around a sin that we ourselves are struggling to stop indulging in is only going to entice us to join in on it. No one in that scenario is going to walk away a victor.
If we really want to serve evangelically we should be careful to serve people with different sins than the ones we're struggling with so we can encourage and strengthen one another in the daily battle, without the risk of dragging each other down.

We are to lovingly act and talk like Jesus when in the midst of the lost, so that we may win them to Him with His example. We are to show them the way they should go, not walk in sin with them and merely describe Jesus to them.

We should be keeping ourselves separate from their chosen sins, loving them into acting the way Jesus acted instead.

That's why so many evangelical attempts don't take. The evangelised see no difference between themselves and us. They don't see a supernaturally changed life. Christians should stand out starkly from the rest of the world's humans. We're supposed to be a light to those stuck in the dark.

Would you go to a drug addict and participate in drugs with them while trying to convince them to stop using drugs? No. Of course you wouldn't.

Why can't people see that this is the same thing? I'll tell you why. Because participating in halloween is more fun than not, and it makes us more acceptable with the ones we're trying to reach. That's why.

But we are not called to be acceptable to the world, blend in or participate with the world. We are called to be in the world, yes, but not of it. Never of it.

There's a huge difference between how Jesus won the lost to Himself and how pastors/christians are trying to do it in our modern times.

Christians are not doing it the way the Bible says Jesus wants them to do it, they're not submitting their will to Him. They're acting on their own will instead; just assuming He's condoning what they're choosing to do because they're Christian, instead of sincerely asking Him and listening for His response, and as a result, more and more people are being led astray.

As Christians we have a responsibility to lovingly and firmly tell the truth. Even if no one likes it.

Even if no one wants to hear it.

Even if it gets us downvoted or taken down.

Even if it costs us everything.

We know this because Jesus taught us to follow His example of living, and He even sacrificed His very life so that the Truth could set us free.

What are we doing with our freedom?
 
Last edited:

Andy C

Well-Known Member
I think we christians might need a reality check.

I'm going to preface this post with this: the Bible teaches that certain things are abominable to the Lord, and yet some of those things are openly celebrated by christians. (Magic, other gods, spiritism and mediums, etc).

It's a contentious topic, but regardless the discussion is started with the obvious premise having been established that:
According to God, if we literally take Him at His word, magic, spiritism, mediums, other gods etc, is bad.
(I will say that's made very plain in the Bible if you need the proof.)

Most of us would also agree that condoning and or participating in something that’s categorically and undeniably sinful/bad/evil is not okay.

But what about if the bad thing also offered some wholesome stuff too, say to market to a bigger group of people? Should we attend this mainly bad thing just because some okay stuff has been added to it? No. Of course not.
Similarly, adding a sprig of flowers to a glass of poison doesn't change the fact that poison is not something to mess with.

If there was an event approaching that most of the world considered bad or morally reprehensible, you wouldn't think christians would attend it. A lot of good people in general wouldn't go near it.
In fact, most decent people would either openly protest against it or avoid it entirely, to say the least.

To prove this point, consider this: the following illustration is an (obviously fictional) parallel situation which I purposely made as evil as I could imagine, in order to clearly illustrate the widely understood concept that no matter what's added to something or what it's labeled as, bad is still bad, good is still good and that's just that.

The illustration:
A movie is playing. In it, a group of Christians get invited to a literal satanic child sacrifice celebration in the woods and decide to go to it because (and here it is) that's not all the event will offer, there will be family friendly activities happening too for people who may not want to participate in the darker ritual. The only thing a person has to do to enjoy those family friendly activities is show up and decide what they'll participate in once they get there.

Now, whether this was just a movie or if in real life you somehow walked in on a bunch of christians hanging out at such an event, (even if they weren't actively participating in the evil act itself), would you think they really belonged to Christ? This is assuming that they are doing their own wholesome thing with their friends and family at this event while other people are in the near vicinity "doing their own thing" (the sacrifice) as well.

Be honest. You would not believe any of those people are christian. No. You'd be horrified that such a thing was happening at all. Even not knowing why the christians were there, merely seeing them hanging out doing their own thing at an event like that, you would be just as horrified that these people *who call themselves christians* weren't trying to put a stop to it! You'd be wondering why they weren't at least dragging their loved ones away from it in horror. From the christians' behavior and body language you would also intuit something else: those christians chose to be there, because they are not acting like hostages, or dazed individuals transported in unwillingly, but instead like people purposely attending an event they had access to. You'd also know that them attending for any reason other than to try to stop it from happening is wrong, it's blatent condoning if not celebrating the evil act being done in their midst, and you would be dismayed at their display of apathy towards evil.

Celebrating halloween is the same thing for christians.

I know, I know. You don't believe me. You don't agree.

You yell, "but kids dressing up in costumes and little magic wands and fae wings is nowhere near the same level of worldly or evil as a satanic child sacrifice!"

To us humans, that may seem true.

However, (though mostly ignored) there is overwhelming evidence to the contrary from countless individuals who were heavily involved in the occult before finding Jesus, people who keep testifying that it *is* the same, and knowing what they know, they are totally gobsmacked that christians participate in halloween.
They say that if christians knew what they knew, no way would they participate in that kind of activity.

So I tell people. Others tell people. So that they know what the former occultist-turned-christian knows.

And the average person couldn't care less, they just brush it off.

*But God does not brush it off.*

To God, sin is sin.

Bad is bad.

"But she's just *pretending* to be a witch/faerie/goblin! That's not the same as actually practicing witchcraft!"

Really? Do you think demons care about that?

No! They'll take any opening we give them and latch onto our lives. Remember that they work for the one whose sole purpose is to kill, steal and destroy.

All they're looking for is one little crack, one little deliberate sin and they'll dive in, doing all they can to simultaneously open the door wider and wreck that person's life. And unfortunately that person will have given them the legal right to do so. They especially love when a believer lets them in. That's like sweet nectar to them.

"Come on," you say. "God doesn't pay that much attention/ care that much if I celebrate halloween my way. He understands I'm trying to give my kids a normal childhood/witness to the lost for Him."

Do you honestly believe that those kind of semantics are going to hold up in front of a Holy God?
For that matter, do you even really know what Holy means?

"My sin isn't as bad as *his* sin. I should totally be allowed into heaven."

Not how it works, Biblically. The Truth is the Truth. It's not subjective. Sin is sin.

And no sin is going to enter into Heaven.

"You're just being legalistic!"

Ah, the timeless response of believers who don't like being convicted of their sin.
Please try to remember that claiming God didn't say something, doesn't actually remove the fact that He really did say it. Emphatically, I might add.

"Whatever! I don't have to listen to you!"

You're right. You don't. You have free will. So do what you want, but make no mistake about it: God will not be mocked and He won't be manipulated.

Now, to be clear, I don't want to act like a pharisee. I won't question the fact that on any day and in any circumstance Jesus would be out tending to and loving the masses to Him, even on halloween.

That's what the pharisees hated, that he mingled with sinners.

What they missed, however, was that he was not condoning their sin. He was loving them in spite of it, forgiving them of it, and then telling them to sin no more.

He did not participate in drugs or overindulge in alcohol, He didn't participate in practices that worship other gods in order to reach the lost. No. He was just Himself for them, an example of what to be, and many *left their sinful ways behind* and followed *Him* and *His ways* instead.

*Instead.*

That is the difference between what Jesus and His disciples did, and what believers celebrating holloween nowadays do. They're having "trunk or treat" parties and going trick-or-treating with their kids. They're claiming it's what Jesus would have done, that He would have mingled to reach the lost.

Not like that, He wouldn't. He *didn't.*

Read the Bible! He told them to stop sinning. He didn't do what they did while loving them away from it.

But nowadays that's what these pastors/christians will imply, many even outright claim it.

And that's not acceptable.

We're not supposed to sin with those sinning against God in order to win them to Him.
We approach them, yes. We insert ourselves into their lives where possible and show them a different way to be, yes.
But we are not to indulge in/condone/ignore their sin.

If their sin is something we're currently wrestling with then we have zero business trying to edify them about that sin, or even being around them. If we're being real with ourselves, we'll admit that being around a sin that we ourselves are struggling to stop indulging in is only going to entice us to join in on it. No one in that scenario is going to walk away a victor.
If we really want to serve evangelically we should be careful to serve people with different sins than the ones we're struggling with so we can encourage and strengthen one another in the daily battle, without the risk of dragging each other down.

We are to lovingly act and talk like Jesus when in the midst of the lost, so that we may win them to Him with His example. We are to show them the way they should go, not walk in sin with them and merely describe Jesus to them.

We should be keeping ourselves separate from their chosen sins, loving them into acting the way Jesus acted instead.

That's why so many evangelical attempts don't take. The evangelised see no difference between themselves and us. They don't see a supernaturally changed life. Christians should stand out starkly from the rest of the world's humans. We're supposed to be a light to those stuck in the dark.

Would you go to a drug addict and participate in drugs with them while trying to convince them to stop using drugs? No. Of course you wouldn't.

Why can't people see that this is the same thing? I'll tell you why. Because participating in halloween is more fun than not, and it makes us more acceptable with the ones we're trying to reach. That's why.

But we are not called to be acceptable to the world, blend in or participate with the world. We are called to be in the world, yes, but not of it. Never of it.

There's a huge difference between how Jesus won the lost to Himself and how pastors/christians are trying to do it in our modern times.

Christians are not doing it the way the Bible says Jesus wants them to do it, they're not submitting their will to Him. They're acting on their own will instead; just assuming He's condoning what they're choosing to do because they're Christian, instead of sincerely asking Him and listening for His response, and as a result, more and more people are being led astray.

As Christians we have a responsibility to lovingly and firmly tell the truth. Even if no one likes it.

Even if no one wants to hear it.

Even if it gets us downvoted or taken down.

Even if it costs us everything.

We know this because Jesus taught us to follow His example of living, and He even sacrificed His very life so that the Truth could set us free.

What are we doing with our freedom?
Do you believe a saved Christian can lose their salvation based on their behavior?
 

Aiyanna

Well-Known Member
Now concerning things offered to idols: We know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, but love edifies. And if anyone thinks that he knows anything, he knows nothing yet as he ought to know. But if anyone loves God, this one is known by Him. Therefore concerning the eating of things offered to idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is no other God but one. For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many Lords), yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live. However, there is not in everyone that knowledge; for some, with consciousness of the idol, until now eat it as a thing offered to an idol; and their conscience, being weak, is defiled. But food does not commend us to God; for neither if we eat are we the better, nor if we do not eat are we the worse.
I Corinthians 8:1‭-‬8 NKJV

The arguments over Halloween, Christmas, and the like have been done to death. I don't generally celebrate Halloween because I'm a party pooper at heart. I don't like paying money for and dressing up in clothes I won't be wearing all the time, and too much candy is too much candy. I don't need candy. (And I hate spiders. What is it with spiders? Why spiders? Why not butterflies? Or lady bugs? Or even dragon flies? Why does it have to be spiders?)
But it doesn't bother me if another believer in Christ chooses to dress up and do something fun, or use the holiday for something wholesome and good for their kids. If their conscience is clear of any wrong doing, who do I think I am to correct them? If they are confident and firm in their faith in Christ, and their conscience is clear, then they are not sinning.
 

Wally

Say something Righteous and Wholesome...
Be in the world, not of the world
Be compassionate, not compromising
Seek Christ's Perfection, you can not be perfect

If it is a stumbling block, discard it
If it makes others stumble, avoid it

Trust Christ, not man
Follow His Will, not your own
and all the while pray for discernment, power, and grace to know the difference.
 

Reunionroundthecorner

Well-Known Member
Sara, I kinda agree with what you are saying. But......and there's that but........EVERYTHING we do is either for the good or for the bad. People celebrate Easter (Resurrection Day, whatever you want to call it) but we all know what that day is truly about. So why do churches do Easter Egg hunts? What does that have to do with Christ's resurrection? Nothing but it's "fun" No harm, no foul.

Church's do "alternatives" to Halloween? Why? Because for some, it is simply a way to get candy and that is fun! So to say something is evil, yet acknowledge it's existence by celebrating it "at church" change it's purpose?

Referring to your post, it seems like you may be part of a fundamentalist church or what others call the legalistic church. Nothing wrong with that, but that denomination tends to criticize and can become self righteous. I'm not saying YOU are but as I was reading your post, I remember being forced not to wear jeans but skirts or dresses, not listen to music, not go to movies at a "Christian" college I was attending because it can be perceived as evil. Seeing "Chariots of Fire" is not evil! Jeans are probably the only thing poor people can afford. Not evil! They were fundamentalists. I am not. All I could think of was, I have been set free through Christ, yet I felt I was in bondage because I couldn't do this and couldn't do that. That's not freedom!

So, to be in agreement, people need to do what they feel is right and let God take care of the rest of it. We will never be perfect, we will never be good enough but praise God, He sees us through His Son who is perfect! Hallelujah!!!!

I hope I have not offended you, dear sister. Your post was truly full of love and passion!

Thank you for your food for thought.

This subject is deep and we could go on and on and on. But I hope this suffices.
 

Everlasting Life

Through Faith in Jesus
SaraH67, it can be hard and grieving to see how the world has invaded Christian lives sometimes and I sense that you may be feeling this too, especially as you are likely witnessing this personally a little more from where you are from. I know that King David grieved at what he saw with waning worship of God:


My heart is breaking
as I remember how it used to be:
I walked among the crowds of worshipers,
leading a great procession to the house of God,
singing for joy and giving thanks
amid the sound of a great celebration!


Psalm 42:4

and I love his response:

Why am I discouraged?
Why is my heart so sad?
I will put my hope in God!
I will praise him again—
my Savior and my God!.....


vs. 5-6


It's a contentious topic, but regardless the discussion is started with the obvious premise having been established that:
According to God, if we literally take Him at His word, magic, spiritism, mediums, other gods etc, is bad.
(I will say that's made very plain in the Bible if you need the proof.)

There's some good responses in this thread and I thought I'd share an experience of mine in regards to this. As I was participating in a group bible study one year, it came to light that a sweet precious, older woman in Christ had really gotten into a book series which magnified witchcraft in a fun and enticing way.....with, as you've said, 'sprig of flowers' in the form of good attributes like loyalty and friendship, etc. Being in a pocket of an area of mindsets geared in this direction where I'm at, I wasn't surprised and had come across this often.

Yes, I knew the truth of what God's Word says about this kind of stuff but even more I felt deeply sad that this sweet woman was missing true treasure by not being in His Word. It seemed she was substituting another book for the most interesting Book....the bible and she was really missing out.

I could have berated her, I could have called her out but at the time I felt led to love her best by praying for her and asking the Lord to show her how she was really missing out on some real treasure for herself in not instead being in His Word. And then kept inviting her to the bible study I was at. Here's what God did, unbeknownst to me until later.

After a couple of months, quite suddenly this sweet woman had a health issue which kept her at home and unable to move until she healed and her faithful husband took very good care of her (God was so graciously patient and kind in this on her behalf). She soon got very bored and decided to read a little bit of God's Word and then, she got hooked!! She couldn't read it enough! Pretty soon, this was all that she read.

After a couple of months she was able to come back to the bible study and share with us this amazing story and to my great joy and happiness for her, she said, "I realize that because of what God's Word says I needed to put this book series aside because it wasn't right for me to be reading this but rather I need to be primarily in God's Word. Now, I can't read it enough!"

It was like God was saying to me, "Look what I did." And I also saw how God worked in a loving, compassionate way in her life. Through His grace and mercy, out of His love, He permitted a situation that created complete focus on His Word.....and then gave her time to have undivided attention to His Word to grow in His Word. It was just beautiful what He did. It was His work and in a way that gently helped her to make a different decision in her reading material.


I get there's a time to speak truth in love and there's times where that's certainly been needed. However, what I've learned, most importantly, is that I can also trust God to bring about necessary change in others, including myself as He best sees and in His timing.

And as I'm seeking to continue to grow in Christ, I have found that inviting others to come along with me has been very effective. When people see the transformative power of God in people's lives as they study the Word of God together, for themselves, they hunger for more. Before they know it, God's transformative power in their lives is noticed by people around them and draws them, and then in time draws others in their lives as well. I see this in how the Church grew in Acts.

The truth is, we all struggle with staying on God's path at times and knowing God's complete will for us. Inviting people around us to be in God's Word together, staying focused on His Word, accountable to do so, brings change and transformation in a way that brings God wonderful glory as lives begin to change with Christ emerging more and more and understanding of His will in lives becomes more clear.

So, I would gently encourage you to see or ask God where He might be already working in the ways you are concerned, to trust that He's working in His timing, considering that perhaps there's a place He'd like you to step out in faith to be part of that work as God leads. God has people everywhere doing this and He's working where we don't see.

God certainly loves and is concerned about His church and the whole world and I would encourage you to be alert and see where He's already moving to bring about His plans in people's lives, being alert to providential relationships and circumstances that seem to unfold with God's hand in it.

I hope this encouraging and helpful to you. And, welcome to RF by the way. :wave
 

Andy C

Well-Known Member
I think we christians might need a reality check.

I'm going to preface this post with this: the Bible teaches that certain things are abominable to the Lord, and yet some of those things are openly celebrated by christians. (Magic, other gods, spiritism and mediums, etc).

It's a contentious topic, but regardless the discussion is started with the obvious premise having been established that:
According to God, if we literally take Him at His word, magic, spiritism, mediums, other gods etc, is bad.
(I will say that's made very plain in the Bible if you need the proof.)

Most of us would also agree that condoning and or participating in something that’s categorically and undeniably sinful/bad/evil is not okay.

But what about if the bad thing also offered some wholesome stuff too, say to market to a bigger group of people? Should we attend this mainly bad thing just because some okay stuff has been added to it? No. Of course not.
Similarly, adding a sprig of flowers to a glass of poison doesn't change the fact that poison is not something to mess with.

If there was an event approaching that most of the world considered bad or morally reprehensible, you wouldn't think christians would attend it. A lot of good people in general wouldn't go near it.
In fact, most decent people would either openly protest against it or avoid it entirely, to say the least.

To prove this point, consider this: the following illustration is an (obviously fictional) parallel situation which I purposely made as evil as I could imagine, in order to clearly illustrate the widely understood concept that no matter what's added to something or what it's labeled as, bad is still bad, good is still good and that's just that.

The illustration:
A movie is playing. In it, a group of Christians get invited to a literal satanic child sacrifice celebration in the woods and decide to go to it because (and here it is) that's not all the event will offer, there will be family friendly activities happening too for people who may not want to participate in the darker ritual. The only thing a person has to do to enjoy those family friendly activities is show up and decide what they'll participate in once they get there.

Now, whether this was just a movie or if in real life you somehow walked in on a bunch of christians hanging out at such an event, (even if they weren't actively participating in the evil act itself), would you think they really belonged to Christ? This is assuming that they are doing their own wholesome thing with their friends and family at this event while other people are in the near vicinity "doing their own thing" (the sacrifice) as well.

Be honest. You would not believe any of those people are christian. No. You'd be horrified that such a thing was happening at all. Even not knowing why the christians were there, merely seeing them hanging out doing their own thing at an event like that, you would be just as horrified that these people *who call themselves christians* weren't trying to put a stop to it! You'd be wondering why they weren't at least dragging their loved ones away from it in horror. From the christians' behavior and body language you would also intuit something else: those christians chose to be there, because they are not acting like hostages, or dazed individuals transported in unwillingly, but instead like people purposely attending an event they had access to. You'd also know that them attending for any reason other than to try to stop it from happening is wrong, it's blatent condoning if not celebrating the evil act being done in their midst, and you would be dismayed at their display of apathy towards evil.

Celebrating halloween is the same thing for christians.

I know, I know. You don't believe me. You don't agree.

You yell, "but kids dressing up in costumes and little magic wands and fae wings is nowhere near the same level of worldly or evil as a satanic child sacrifice!"

To us humans, that may seem true.

However, (though mostly ignored) there is overwhelming evidence to the contrary from countless individuals who were heavily involved in the occult before finding Jesus, people who keep testifying that it *is* the same, and knowing what they know, they are totally gobsmacked that christians participate in halloween.
They say that if christians knew what they knew, no way would they participate in that kind of activity.

So I tell people. Others tell people. So that they know what the former occultist-turned-christian knows.

And the average person couldn't care less, they just brush it off.

*But God does not brush it off.*

To God, sin is sin.

Bad is bad.

"But she's just *pretending* to be a witch/faerie/goblin! That's not the same as actually practicing witchcraft!"

Really? Do you think demons care about that?

No! They'll take any opening we give them and latch onto our lives. Remember that they work for the one whose sole purpose is to kill, steal and destroy.

All they're looking for is one little crack, one little deliberate sin and they'll dive in, doing all they can to simultaneously open the door wider and wreck that person's life. And unfortunately that person will have given them the legal right to do so. They especially love when a believer lets them in. That's like sweet nectar to them.

"Come on," you say. "God doesn't pay that much attention/ care that much if I celebrate halloween my way. He understands I'm trying to give my kids a normal childhood/witness to the lost for Him."

Do you honestly believe that those kind of semantics are going to hold up in front of a Holy God?
For that matter, do you even really know what Holy means?

"My sin isn't as bad as *his* sin. I should totally be allowed into heaven."

Not how it works, Biblically. The Truth is the Truth. It's not subjective. Sin is sin.

And no sin is going to enter into Heaven.

"You're just being legalistic!"

Ah, the timeless response of believers who don't like being convicted of their sin.
Please try to remember that claiming God didn't say something, doesn't actually remove the fact that He really did say it. Emphatically, I might add.

"Whatever! I don't have to listen to you!"

You're right. You don't. You have free will. So do what you want, but make no mistake about it: God will not be mocked and He won't be manipulated.

Now, to be clear, I don't want to act like a pharisee. I won't question the fact that on any day and in any circumstance Jesus would be out tending to and loving the masses to Him, even on halloween.

That's what the pharisees hated, that he mingled with sinners.

What they missed, however, was that he was not condoning their sin. He was loving them in spite of it, forgiving them of it, and then telling them to sin no more.

He did not participate in drugs or overindulge in alcohol, He didn't participate in practices that worship other gods in order to reach the lost. No. He was just Himself for them, an example of what to be, and many *left their sinful ways behind* and followed *Him* and *His ways* instead.

*Instead.*

That is the difference between what Jesus and His disciples did, and what believers celebrating holloween nowadays do. They're having "trunk or treat" parties and going trick-or-treating with their kids. They're claiming it's what Jesus would have done, that He would have mingled to reach the lost.

Not like that, He wouldn't. He *didn't.*

Read the Bible! He told them to stop sinning. He didn't do what they did while loving them away from it.

But nowadays that's what these pastors/christians will imply, many even outright claim it.

And that's not acceptable.

We're not supposed to sin with those sinning against God in order to win them to Him.
We approach them, yes. We insert ourselves into their lives where possible and show them a different way to be, yes.
But we are not to indulge in/condone/ignore their sin.

If their sin is something we're currently wrestling with then we have zero business trying to edify them about that sin, or even being around them. If we're being real with ourselves, we'll admit that being around a sin that we ourselves are struggling to stop indulging in is only going to entice us to join in on it. No one in that scenario is going to walk away a victor.
If we really want to serve evangelically we should be careful to serve people with different sins than the ones we're struggling with so we can encourage and strengthen one another in the daily battle, without the risk of dragging each other down.

We are to lovingly act and talk like Jesus when in the midst of the lost, so that we may win them to Him with His example. We are to show them the way they should go, not walk in sin with them and merely describe Jesus to them.

We should be keeping ourselves separate from their chosen sins, loving them into acting the way Jesus acted instead.

That's why so many evangelical attempts don't take. The evangelised see no difference between themselves and us. They don't see a supernaturally changed life. Christians should stand out starkly from the rest of the world's humans. We're supposed to be a light to those stuck in the dark.

Would you go to a drug addict and participate in drugs with them while trying to convince them to stop using drugs? No. Of course you wouldn't.

Why can't people see that this is the same thing? I'll tell you why. Because participating in halloween is more fun than not, and it makes us more acceptable with the ones we're trying to reach. That's why.

But we are not called to be acceptable to the world, blend in or participate with the world. We are called to be in the world, yes, but not of it. Never of it.

There's a huge difference between how Jesus won the lost to Himself and how pastors/christians are trying to do it in our modern times.

Christians are not doing it the way the Bible says Jesus wants them to do it, they're not submitting their will to Him. They're acting on their own will instead; just assuming He's condoning what they're choosing to do because they're Christian, instead of sincerely asking Him and listening for His response, and as a result, more and more people are being led astray.

As Christians we have a responsibility to lovingly and firmly tell the truth. Even if no one likes it.

Even if no one wants to hear it.

Even if it gets us downvoted or taken down.

Even if it costs us everything.

We know this because Jesus taught us to follow His example of living, and He even sacrificed His very life so that the Truth could set us free.

What are we doing with our freedom?
Lots of good responses to your post, Im hoping you will comment.
 

yeshua'sbride

♥ Standing with Israel
I think we christians might need a reality check.

I'm going to preface this post with this: the Bible teaches that certain things are abominable to the Lord, and yet some of those things are openly celebrated by christians. (Magic, other gods, spiritism and mediums, etc).

It's a contentious topic, but regardless the discussion is started with the obvious premise having been established that:
According to God, if we literally take Him at His word, magic, spiritism, mediums, other gods etc, is bad.
(I will say that's made very plain in the Bible if you need the proof.)

Most of us would also agree that condoning and or participating in something that’s categorically and undeniably sinful/bad/evil is not okay.

But what about if the bad thing also offered some wholesome stuff too, say to market to a bigger group of people? Should we attend this mainly bad thing just because some okay stuff has been added to it? No. Of course not.
Similarly, adding a sprig of flowers to a glass of poison doesn't change the fact that poison is not something to mess with.

If there was an event approaching that most of the world considered bad or morally reprehensible, you wouldn't think christians would attend it. A lot of good people in general wouldn't go near it.
In fact, most decent people would either openly protest against it or avoid it entirely, to say the least.

To prove this point, consider this: the following illustration is an (obviously fictional) parallel situation which I purposely made as evil as I could imagine, in order to clearly illustrate the widely understood concept that no matter what's added to something or what it's labeled as, bad is still bad, good is still good and that's just that.

The illustration:
A movie is playing. In it, a group of Christians get invited to a literal satanic child sacrifice celebration in the woods and decide to go to it because (and here it is) that's not all the event will offer, there will be family friendly activities happening too for people who may not want to participate in the darker ritual. The only thing a person has to do to enjoy those family friendly activities is show up and decide what they'll participate in once they get there.

Now, whether this was just a movie or if in real life you somehow walked in on a bunch of christians hanging out at such an event, (even if they weren't actively participating in the evil act itself), would you think they really belonged to Christ? This is assuming that they are doing their own wholesome thing with their friends and family at this event while other people are in the near vicinity "doing their own thing" (the sacrifice) as well.

Be honest. You would not believe any of those people are christian. No. You'd be horrified that such a thing was happening at all. Even not knowing why the christians were there, merely seeing them hanging out doing their own thing at an event like that, you would be just as horrified that these people *who call themselves christians* weren't trying to put a stop to it! You'd be wondering why they weren't at least dragging their loved ones away from it in horror. From the christians' behavior and body language you would also intuit something else: those christians chose to be there, because they are not acting like hostages, or dazed individuals transported in unwillingly, but instead like people purposely attending an event they had access to. You'd also know that them attending for any reason other than to try to stop it from happening is wrong, it's blatent condoning if not celebrating the evil act being done in their midst, and you would be dismayed at their display of apathy towards evil.

Celebrating halloween is the same thing for christians.

I know, I know. You don't believe me. You don't agree.

You yell, "but kids dressing up in costumes and little magic wands and fae wings is nowhere near the same level of worldly or evil as a satanic child sacrifice!"

To us humans, that may seem true.

However, (though mostly ignored) there is overwhelming evidence to the contrary from countless individuals who were heavily involved in the occult before finding Jesus, people who keep testifying that it *is* the same, and knowing what they know, they are totally gobsmacked that christians participate in halloween.
They say that if christians knew what they knew, no way would they participate in that kind of activity.

So I tell people. Others tell people. So that they know what the former occultist-turned-christian knows.

And the average person couldn't care less, they just brush it off.

*But God does not brush it off.*

To God, sin is sin.

Bad is bad.

"But she's just *pretending* to be a witch/faerie/goblin! That's not the same as actually practicing witchcraft!"

Really? Do you think demons care about that?

No! They'll take any opening we give them and latch onto our lives. Remember that they work for the one whose sole purpose is to kill, steal and destroy.

All they're looking for is one little crack, one little deliberate sin and they'll dive in, doing all they can to simultaneously open the door wider and wreck that person's life. And unfortunately that person will have given them the legal right to do so. They especially love when a believer lets them in. That's like sweet nectar to them.

"Come on," you say. "God doesn't pay that much attention/ care that much if I celebrate halloween my way. He understands I'm trying to give my kids a normal childhood/witness to the lost for Him."

Do you honestly believe that those kind of semantics are going to hold up in front of a Holy God?
For that matter, do you even really know what Holy means?

"My sin isn't as bad as *his* sin. I should totally be allowed into heaven."

Not how it works, Biblically. The Truth is the Truth. It's not subjective. Sin is sin.

And no sin is going to enter into Heaven.

"You're just being legalistic!"

Ah, the timeless response of believers who don't like being convicted of their sin.
Please try to remember that claiming God didn't say something, doesn't actually remove the fact that He really did say it. Emphatically, I might add.

"Whatever! I don't have to listen to you!"

You're right. You don't. You have free will. So do what you want, but make no mistake about it: God will not be mocked and He won't be manipulated.

Now, to be clear, I don't want to act like a pharisee. I won't question the fact that on any day and in any circumstance Jesus would be out tending to and loving the masses to Him, even on halloween.

That's what the pharisees hated, that he mingled with sinners.

What they missed, however, was that he was not condoning their sin. He was loving them in spite of it, forgiving them of it, and then telling them to sin no more.

He did not participate in drugs or overindulge in alcohol, He didn't participate in practices that worship other gods in order to reach the lost. No. He was just Himself for them, an example of what to be, and many *left their sinful ways behind* and followed *Him* and *His ways* instead.

*Instead.*

That is the difference between what Jesus and His disciples did, and what believers celebrating holloween nowadays do. They're having "trunk or treat" parties and going trick-or-treating with their kids. They're claiming it's what Jesus would have done, that He would have mingled to reach the lost.

Not like that, He wouldn't. He *didn't.*

Read the Bible! He told them to stop sinning. He didn't do what they did while loving them away from it.

But nowadays that's what these pastors/christians will imply, many even outright claim it.

And that's not acceptable.

We're not supposed to sin with those sinning against God in order to win them to Him.
We approach them, yes. We insert ourselves into their lives where possible and show them a different way to be, yes.
But we are not to indulge in/condone/ignore their sin.

If their sin is something we're currently wrestling with then we have zero business trying to edify them about that sin, or even being around them. If we're being real with ourselves, we'll admit that being around a sin that we ourselves are struggling to stop indulging in is only going to entice us to join in on it. No one in that scenario is going to walk away a victor.
If we really want to serve evangelically we should be careful to serve people with different sins than the ones we're struggling with so we can encourage and strengthen one another in the daily battle, without the risk of dragging each other down.

We are to lovingly act and talk like Jesus when in the midst of the lost, so that we may win them to Him with His example. We are to show them the way they should go, not walk in sin with them and merely describe Jesus to them.

We should be keeping ourselves separate from their chosen sins, loving them into acting the way Jesus acted instead.

That's why so many evangelical attempts don't take. The evangelised see no difference between themselves and us. They don't see a supernaturally changed life. Christians should stand out starkly from the rest of the world's humans. We're supposed to be a light to those stuck in the dark.

Would you go to a drug addict and participate in drugs with them while trying to convince them to stop using drugs? No. Of course you wouldn't.

Why can't people see that this is the same thing? I'll tell you why. Because participating in halloween is more fun than not, and it makes us more acceptable with the ones we're trying to reach. That's why.

But we are not called to be acceptable to the world, blend in or participate with the world. We are called to be in the world, yes, but not of it. Never of it.

There's a huge difference between how Jesus won the lost to Himself and how pastors/christians are trying to do it in our modern times.

Christians are not doing it the way the Bible says Jesus wants them to do it, they're not submitting their will to Him. They're acting on their own will instead; just assuming He's condoning what they're choosing to do because they're Christian, instead of sincerely asking Him and listening for His response, and as a result, more and more people are being led astray.

As Christians we have a responsibility to lovingly and firmly tell the truth. Even if no one likes it.

Even if no one wants to hear it.

Even if it gets us downvoted or taken down.

Even if it costs us everything.

We know this because Jesus taught us to follow His example of living, and He even sacrificed His very life so that the Truth could set us free.

What are we doing with our freedom?

This is your first post, and we haven't gotten to know you yet. While I hope you mean well, your post comes across as condescending and condemning, not edifying at all. Please consider going to the Meet & Greet forum to tell us a bit about yourself so we can get to know you better.

Do you believe a saved Christian can lose their salvation based on their behavior?

An answer to Andy C's question would be appreciated.
 

Matthew6:33

Withstand in the evil day. Eph 6:13
Reminds me of the wheat and tares judgement. There are going to be counterfeit Christians in the Church (tares). Jesus says to actually let them grow amongst the wheat and do not remove them. Just a reminder that we cannot always discern a true Christian just by how they act. Only God can. He knows who are really His despite what they do or how they act.

Parable of the wheat and tares
Matthew 13:24-30 NKJV —
Another parable He put forth to them, saying: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; “but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. “But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. “So the servants of the owner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ “He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ The servants said to him, ‘Do you want us then to go and gather them up?’ “But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. ‘Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.” ’ ”

Parable of the wheat and tares explained
Matthew 13:36-43 NKJV —
Then Jesus sent the multitude away and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field.” He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. “The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. “The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. “Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. “The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, “and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. “Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!
 

FindingJoy

Well-Known Member
I'm very tired (and I think package lied about caffeine content in coffee), so I might have missed/misunderstood somewhere; but it sounds like you're somewhat saying grace can be achieved by our own deeds?
As in our own actions/choices/commitment can somehow gain or lose our salvation?

Please correct me if you didn't mean this!
 

SaraH67

Member
I'm very tired (and I think package lied about caffeine content in coffee), so I might have missed/misunderstood somewhere; but it sounds like you're somewhat saying grace can be achieved by our own deeds?
As in our own actions/choices/commitment can somehow gain or lose our salvation?

Please correct me if you didn't mean this!
I definitely did not mean that. I meant that a person who knows the Lord personally, daily, who has a good solid relationship with Him, will not participate in this holiday once they've been told why its a bad idea. Honestly I can't fathom even a new Christian wanting to mix in with that stuff.

But no, it's more about our fruits showing our salvation vs trying to earn our salvation. We cannot ever earn it. But if we ARE saved, our actions/speech/desires/growth in the Lord will show that Salvation.
 

SaraH67

Member
This is your first post, and we haven't gotten to know you yet. While I hope you mean well, your post comes across as condescending and condemning, not edifying at all. Please consider going to the Meet & Greet forum to tell us a bit about yourself so we can get to know you better.



An answer to Andy C's question would be appreciated.
First of all, to Andy C: no, I do not believe that a person can lose their salvation based on behavior. I just believe that if you've been sincerely Saved you won't be inclined to participate in dark things unless you're trying to implore people out of them.

I apologize if my post comes off as condescending and condemning.

That's also not my intention.

This topic has been something the Lord has convicted me on very strongly over the years and I wanted to be clear. The original responses I recieved from it were all about why it's fine and not to judge people. I judge others Biblically. I judge them with the same standard I expect to be judged with. To me, that IS edification. But many christians don't want to hear hard truths.

I wrote it out in such a way that no one could twist my words or meanings.
 

Chris

Administrator
Staff member
I definitely did not mean that. I meant that a person who knows the Lord personally, daily, who has a good solid relationship with Him, will not participate in this holiday once they've been told why its a bad idea. Honestly I can't fathom even a new Christian wanting to mix in with that stuff.

But no, it's more about our fruits showing our salvation vs trying to earn our salvation. We cannot ever earn it. But if we ARE saved, our actions/speech/desires/growth in the Lord will show that Salvation.
Sometimes it is hard for people to figure out what one is saying in a long post like that.

I agree that we should not participate in Halloween. My wife and I did allow the kids to trick or treat just as I had done when I was young. Looking back on that I regret that.

However, we all know that there is nothing that God can't forgive through the shed blood of Jesus Christ, except the decision not to accept his free gift of salvation. Everyone has things they look back on and regret. I think that is part of the learning process here on Earth.

I try to warn against Halloween now. :thumbup
 

SaraH67

Member
I'm very tired (and I think package lied about caffeine content in coffee), so I might have missed/misunderstood somewhere; but it sounds like you're somewhat saying grace can be achieved by our own deeds?
As in our own actions/choices/commitment can somehow gain or lose our salvation?

Please correct me if you didn't mean this!
Absolutely not what I meant. Nothing we do is going to take away our salvation and nothing we do is going to earn it.
 

SaraH67

Member
Sometimes it is hard for people to figure out what one is saying in a long post like that.

I agree that we should not participate in Halloween. My wife and I did allow the kids to trick or treat just as I had done when I was young. Looking back on that I regret that.

However, we all know that there is nothing that God can't forgive through the shed blood of Jesus Christ, except the decision not to accept his free gift of salvation. Everyone has things they look back on and regret. I think that is part of the learning process here on Earth.

I try to warn against Halloween now. :thumbup
That's a wise response all around.

I just don't want to abuse His grace and mercy, and do my best not to. So many Christians treat His grace/mercy like a credit card with no limit... Willfully sinning and just expecting to be forgiven afterwards. It's not right.
 

SaraH67

Member
Sara, I kinda agree with what you are saying. But......and there's that but........EVERYTHING we do is either for the good or for the bad. People celebrate Easter (Resurrection Day, whatever you want to call it) but we all know what that day is truly about. So why do churches do Easter Egg hunts? What does that have to do with Christ's resurrection? Nothing but it's "fun" No harm, no foul.

Church's do "alternatives" to Halloween? Why? Because for some, it is simply a way to get candy and that is fun! So to say something is evil, yet acknowledge it's existence by celebrating it "at church" change it's purpose?

Referring to your post, it seems like you may be part of a fundamentalist church or what others call the legalistic church. Nothing wrong with that, but that denomination tends to criticize and can become self righteous. I'm not saying YOU are but as I was reading your post, I remember being forced not to wear jeans but skirts or dresses, not listen to music, not go to movies at a "Christian" college I was attending because it can be perceived as evil. Seeing "Chariots of Fire" is not evil! Jeans are probably the only thing poor people can afford. Not evil! They were fundamentalists. I am not. All I could think of was, I have been set free through Christ, yet I felt I was in bondage because I couldn't do this and couldn't do that. That's not freedom!

So, to be in agreement, people need to do what they feel is right and let God take care of the rest of it. We will never be perfect, we will never be good enough but praise God, He sees us through His Son who is perfect! Hallelujah!!!!

I hope I have not offended you, dear sister. Your post was truly full of love and passion!

Thank you for your food for thought.

This subject is deep and we could go on and on and on. But I hope this suffices.
Yeah, I really don't subscribe to legalistic Christianity. I think its just as ridiculous as any other extreme of our Faith. What I try to do is consult Him on my decisions and follow His will as much as humanly possible (with His guidance.) I believe if someone is really truly saved they will be basically best friends with Jesus and actually know Him. He wants to know each of us, and wants us to join Him when we die. He loves us and I love to love Him right back, so I do all I can to show Him my devotion. I mean, don't spouses do that for their mate? I think it only natural to do the same for the One who laid down His life for me.

I don't think anything I do/say, no matter how well or right or wrong I do/say it, is going to earn me eternity at His side.
Salvation is not something that can be earned, it's a supernatural transaction so to speak and a drastic change occurs to our spirit at the moment of redemption. That change might not be immediately obvious on the outside, but I do believe that our speech/actions/etc will show our relationship with Him.

And I believe that one can and should (circumstances appropriate) judge a professing Christian by their fruits.
 
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SaraH67

Member
SaraH67, it can be hard and grieving to see how the world has invaded Christian lives sometimes and I sense that you may be feeling this too, especially as you are likely witnessing this personally a little more from where you are from. I know that King David grieved at what he saw with waning worship of God:


My heart is breaking
as I remember how it used to be:
I walked among the crowds of worshipers,
leading a great procession to the house of God,
singing for joy and giving thanks
amid the sound of a great celebration!


Psalm 42:4

and I love his response:

Why am I discouraged?
Why is my heart so sad?
I will put my hope in God!
I will praise him again—
my Savior and my God!.....


vs. 5-6




There's some good responses in this thread and I thought I'd share an experience of mine in regards to this. As I was participating in a group bible study one year, it came to light that a sweet precious, older woman in Christ had really gotten into a book series which magnified witchcraft in a fun and enticing way.....with, as you've said, 'sprig of flowers' in the form of good attributes like loyalty and friendship, etc. Being in a pocket of an area of mindsets geared in this direction where I'm at, I wasn't surprised and had come across this often.

Yes, I knew the truth of what God's Word says about this kind of stuff but even more I felt deeply sad that this sweet woman was missing true treasure by not being in His Word. It seemed she was substituting another book for the most interesting Book....the bible and she was really missing out.

I could have berated her, I could have called her out but at the time I felt led to love her best by praying for her and asking the Lord to show her how she was really missing out on some real treasure for herself in not instead being in His Word. And then kept inviting her to the bible study I was at. Here's what God did, unbeknownst to me until later.

After a couple of months, quite suddenly this sweet woman had a health issue which kept her at home and unable to move until she healed and her faithful husband took very good care of her (God was so graciously patient and kind in this on her behalf). She soon got very bored and decided to read a little bit of God's Word and then, she got hooked!! She couldn't read it enough! Pretty soon, this was all that she read.

After a couple of months she was able to come back to the bible study and share with us this amazing story and to my great joy and happiness for her, she said, "I realize that because of what God's Word says I needed to put this book series aside because it wasn't right for me to be reading this but rather I need to be primarily in God's Word. Now, I can't read it enough!"

It was like God was saying to me, "Look what I did." And I also saw how God worked in a loving, compassionate way in her life. Through His grace and mercy, out of His love, He permitted a situation that created complete focus on His Word.....and then gave her time to have undivided attention to His Word to grow in His Word. It was just beautiful what He did. It was His work and in a way that gently helped her to make a different decision in her reading material.


I get there's a time to speak truth in love and there's times where that's certainly been needed. However, what I've learned, most importantly, is that I can also trust God to bring about necessary change in others, including myself as He best sees and in His timing.

And as I'm seeking to continue to grow in Christ, I have found that inviting others to come along with me has been very effective. When people see the transformative power of God in people's lives as they study the Word of God together, for themselves, they hunger for more. Before they know it, God's transformative power in their lives is noticed by people around them and draws them, and then in time draws others in their lives as well. I see this in how the Church grew in Acts.

The truth is, we all struggle with staying on God's path at times and knowing God's complete will for us. Inviting people around us to be in God's Word together, staying focused on His Word, accountable to do so, brings change and transformation in a way that brings God wonderful glory as lives begin to change with Christ emerging more and more and understanding of His will in lives becomes more clear.

So, I would gently encourage you to see or ask God where He might be already working in the ways you are concerned, to trust that He's working in His timing, considering that perhaps there's a place He'd like you to step out in faith to be part of that work as God leads. God has people everywhere doing this and He's working where we don't see.

God certainly loves and is concerned about His church and the whole world and I would encourage you to be alert and see where He's already moving to bring about His plans in people's lives, being alert to providential relationships and circumstances that seem to unfold with God's hand in it.

I hope this encouraging and helpful to you. And, welcome to RF by the way. :wave
Thank you so much for your thoughtful reply. I agree with you but can't seem to put it into words at the moment because its almost my bedtime and I'm tired.

Thank you for the welcome!
 
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