Rapture Question - Help please.

[Ruth]

Help me explain this scripture in light of the pre-trib position. I believe in the pre-trib rapture but I was presented with this scripture and didn't know how to explain it in light of the pre-trib position.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first , and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
(KJV)

 

[BuzzardHut]

Help me explain this scripture in light of the pre-trib position. I believe in the pre-trib rapture but I was presented with this scripture and didn't know how to explain it in light of the pre-trib position.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first , and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
(KJV)

Jesus comes in the air to get us (rapture), then Jesus comes upon the ground to usher in the millennium (Second coming)
the church goes into apostasy right before the rapture (as we are seeing now) and before AC shows up (which is soon) and is right before the second coming

 

[Chris]

Here's a good article. It's all about context, and those that support the other views besides pre-trib just never have context on their side. They take a verse or two and twist it to say what they want it to say. Feel at ease, pre-trib is correct.

http://www.gracethrufaith.com/ikvot/the-end-times-according-to-paul-part-3-2-thessalonians

 

[Ruth]

Oh I know Pretrib is correct - I just was not able to explain the phrase - 'for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first , and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;'

Thank you for the link. I will go and read it.

 

[Chris]

Oh I know Pretrib is correct - I just was not able to explain the phrase - 'for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first , and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;'

Thank you for the link. I will go and read it.

Yeah, I know what you mean. That verse is used by the pre-wrathers and others to try to make a point for their view. And it was one that on the surface was confusing. But I think Jack in that link does a good job at explaining the context behind it. I hope you find that it helps. God bless you. 2:

 

[Chris]

The Rapture in 2 Thessalonians 2:3
Written by: Dr. Thomas Ice
Conference: Miscellaneous

Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, -2 Thessalonians 2:3

I believe that there is a strong possibility that 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is speaking of the rapture. What do I mean? Some pretribulationists, like myself, think that the Greek noun apostasia, usually translated "apostasy," is a reference to the rapture and should be translated "departure." Thus, this passage would be saying that the day of the Lord will not come until the rapture comes before it. If apostasia is a reference to a physical departure, then 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is strong evidence for pretribulationism.


more......................http://www.pre-trib.org/article-view.php?id=165

 

[Chris]

Here's one more. This one is very informative.

http://www.gracethrufaith.com/selah/tough-questions-answered/paul-was-pre-trib

 

[Ruth]

Than you so much Chris and Buzz! 2:

 

[Sing4Him]

-

The Rapture in 2 Thessalonians 2:3
by Thomas Ice

Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,

- 2 Thessalonians 2:3

I believe that there is a strong possibility that 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is speaking of the rapture. What do I mean? Some pretribulationists, like myself, think that the Greek noun apostasia, usually translated " apostasy," is a reference to the rapture and should be translated " departure." Thus, this passage would be saying that the day of the Lord will not come until the rapture comes before it. If apostasia is a reference to a physical departure, then 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is strong evidence for pretribulationism.


The Meaning of Apostasia

The Greek noun apostasia is only used twice in the New Testament. In addition to 2 Thessalonians 2:3, it occurs in Acts 21:21 where, speaking of Paul, it is said, " that you are teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake (apostasia)Moses." The word is a Greek compound of apo " from" and istemi " stand." Thus, it has the core meaning of " away from" or " departure." The Liddell and Scott Greek Lexicon defines apostasia first as " defection, revolt;" then secondly as " departure, disappearance." [1] Gordon Lewis explains how the verb from which the noun apostasia is derived supports the basic meaning of departure in the following:


The verb may mean to remove spatially. There is little reason then to deny that the noun can mean such a spatial removal or departure. Since the noun is used only one other time in the New Testament of apostasy from Moses (Acts 21:21), we can hardly conclude that its Biblical meaning is necessarily determined. The verb is used fifteen times in the New Testament. Of these fifteen, only three have anything to do with a departure from the faith (Luke 8;13; 1 Tim. 4:1; Heb 3:12). The word is used for departing from iniquity (2 Tim. 2:19), from ungodly men(1 Tim. 6:5), from the temple (Luke 2:27), from the body (2 Cor. 12:8), and from persons (Acts 12:10; Luke 4:13).[2]


" It is with full assurance of proper exegetical study and with complete confidence in the original languages," concludes Daniel Davey, " that the word meaning of apostasia is defined as departure." [3] Paul Lee Tan adds the following:


What precisely does Paul mean when he says that " the falling away" (2:3) must come before the tribulation? The definite article " the" denotes that this will be a definite event, an event distinct from the appearance of the Man of Sin. The Greek word for " falling away" , taken by itself, does not mean religious apostasy or defection. Neither does the word mean " to fall," as the Greeks have another word for that. [pipto, I fall; TDI] The best translation of the word is " to depart." The apostle Paul refers here to a definite event which he calls " the departure," and which will occur just before the start of the tribulation. This is the rapture of the church.[4]


So the word has the core meaning of departure and it depends upon the context to determine whether it is used to mean physical departure or an abstract departure such as departure from the faith.


Translation History
The first seven English translations of apostasia all rendered the noun as either " departure" or " departing." They are as follows: Wycliffe Bible (1384); Tyndale Bible (1526); Coverdale Bible (1535); Cranmer Bible (1539); Breeches Bible (1576); Beza Bible (1583); Geneva Bible (1608).[5] This supports the notion that the word truly means " departure." In fact, Jerome' s Latin translation known as the Vulgate from around the time of a.d. 400 renders apostasia with the " word discessio, meaning ' departure.' " [6] Why was the King James Version the first to depart from the established translation of " departure" ?

Theodore Beza, the Swiss reformer was the first to transliterate apostasia and create a new word, rather than translate it as others had done. The translators of the King James Version were the first to introduce the new rendering of apostasia as " falling away." Most English translators have followed the KJV and Beza in departing from translating apostasia as " departure." No good reason was ever given.


The Use of the Article
It is important to note that Paul uses a definite article with the noun apostasia. What does this mean? Davey notes the following:


Since the Greek language does not need an article to make the noun definite, it becomes clear that with the usage of the article reference is being made to something in particular. In II Thessalonians 2:3 the word apostasia is prefaced by the definite article which means that Paul is pointing to a particular type of departure clearly known to the Thessalonian church.[7]


Dr. Lewis provides a likely answer when he notes that the definite article serves to make a word distinct and draw attention to it. In this instance he believes that its purpose is " to denote a previous reference." " The departure Paul previously referred to was ' our being gathered to him' (v. 1) and our being ' caught up' with the Lord and the raptured dead in the clouds (1 Thess. 4:17)," notes Dr. Lewis.[8] The " departure" was something that Paul and his readers clearly had a mutual understanding about. Paul says in verse 5, " Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things?"

The use of the definite article would also support the notion that Paul spoke of a clear, discernable event. A physical departure, like the rapture would fit just such a notion. However, the New Testament teaches that apostasy had already arrived in the first century (cf. Acts 20:27- 32; 1 Tim. 4:1- 5; 2 Tim. 3:1- 9; 2 Pet. 2:1- 3; Jude 3- 4, 17- 21) and thus, such a process would not denote a clear event as demanded by the language of this passage. Understanding departure as the rapture would satisfy the nuance of this text. E. Schuyler English explains as follows:


Again, how would the Thessalonians, or Christians in any century since, be qualified to recognize the apostasy when it should come, assuming, simply for the sake of this inquiry, that the Church might be on earth when it does come? There has been apostasy from God, rebellion against Him, since time began.[9]


Whatever Paul is referring to in his reference to " the departure," was something that both the Thessalonian believers and he had discussed in-depth previously. When we examine Paul' s first letter to the Thessalonians, he never mentions the doctrine of apostasy, however, virtually every chapter in that epistle speaks of the rapture (cf. 1:9- 10; 2:19; probably 3:13; 4:13- 17; 5:1- 11). In these passages, Paul has used a variety of Greek terms to describe the rapture. It should not be surprising that he uses another term to reference the rapture in 2 Thessalonians 2:3. Dr. House tells us:

continued--------->>

 

[BuzzardHut]

That day refers to the End Times (2000+ yrs), the Day of Tribulation (3 1/2 yrs), and even the Day of the Lord (Second Coming).
The last Days are more than one day for Jesus does not arrive until after apostasy and well after the AOD
Paul is talking about 7+ years here

Revelation Outline

 

[Sing4Him]

-

Remember, the Thessalonians had been led astray by the false teaching (2:2- 3) that the Day of the Lord had already come. This was confusing because Paul offered great hope, in the first letter, of a departure to be with Christ and a rescue from god' s wrath. Now a letter purporting to be from Paul seems to say that they would first have to go through the Day of the Lord. Paul then clarified his prior teaching by emphasizing that they had no need to worry. They could again be comforted because the departure he had discussed in his first letter, and in his teaching while with them, was still the truth. The departure of Christians to be with Christ, and the subsequent revelation of the lawless one, Paul argues, is proof that the Day of the Lord had not begun as they had thought. This understanding of apostasia makes much more sense than the view that they are to be comforted (v. 2) because a defection from the faith must precede the Day of the Lord. The entire second chapter (as well as 1 Thessalonians 4:18; 5:11) serves to comfort (see vv. 2, 3, 17), supplied by a reassurance of Christ' s coming as taught in his first letter.[10]


Departure and The Restrainer
Since pretribulationists believe that the restrainer mentioned in verses 6 and 7 is the Holy Spirit and teaches a pre-trib rapture, then it should not be surprising to see that there is a similar progression of thought in the progression of verse 3. Allan MacRae, president of Faith Theological Seminary in a letter to Schuyler English has said the following concerning this matter:


I wonder if you have noticed the striking parallel between this verse and verses 7- 8, a little further down. According to your suggestion verse 3 mentions the departure of the church as coming first, and then tells of the revealing of the man of sin. In verses 7 and 8 we find the identical sequence. Verse 7 tells of the removal of the Church; verse 8 says: " And then shall that Wicked be revealed." Thus close examination of the passage shows an inner unity and coherence, if we take the word apostasia in its general sense of " departure," while a superficial examination would easily lead to an erroneous interpretation as " falling away" because of the proximity of the mention of the man of sin.[11]


Kenneth Wuest, a Greek scholar from Moody Bible Institute added the following contextual support to taking apostasia as a physical departure:


But then hee apostasia of which Paul is speaking, precedes the revelation of Antichrist in his true identity, and is to katechon that which holds back his revelation (2:6). The hee apostasia, therefore, cannot be either a general apostasy in Christendom which does precede the coming of Antichrist, nor can it be the particular apostasy which is the result of his activities in making himself the alone object of worship. Furthermore, that which holds back his revelation (vs. 3) is vitally connected with hoo katechoon (vs. 7), He who holds back the same event. The latter is, in my opinion, the Holy Spirit and His activities in the Church. All of which means that I am driven to the inescapable conclusion that the hee apostasia (vs. 3) refers to the Rapture of the Church which precedes the Day of the Lord, and holds back the revelation of the Man of Sin who ushers in the world-aspect of that period.[12]


Conclusion
The fact that apostasia most likely has the meaning of physical departure is a clear support for pretribulationism. If this is true, (Dr. Tim LaHaye and I believe that it is), then it means that a clear prophetic sequence is laid out by Paul early in his Apostolic ministry. Paul teaches in 2 Thessalonians 2 that the rapture will occur first, before the Day of the Lord commences. It is not until after the beginning of the Day of the Lord that the Antichrist is released, resulting in the events described by him in chapter 2 of 2 Thessalonians. This is the only interpretation that provides hope for a discomforted people. Maranatha!

Endnotes
[1] Henry George Liddell and Henry Scott, A Greek-English Lexicon, Revised with a Supplement [1968] by Sir Henry Stuart Jones and Roderick McKenzie (Oxford, Eng.: Oxford University Press, 1940), p. 218.

[2] Gordon R. Lewis, " Biblical Evidence for Pretribulationism," Bibliotheca Sacra (vol. 125, no. 499; July 1968), p. 218.

[3] Daniel K. Davey, " The ' Apostesia' of II Thessalonians 2:3," Th.M. thesis, Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary, May 1982, p. 27.

[4] Paul Lee Tan, The Interpretation of Prophecy (Winona Lake, IN: Assurance Publishers, 1974), p. 341.

[5] H. Wayne House, " Apostasia in 2 Thessalonians 2:3: Apostasy or Rapture?" in Thomas Ice and Timothy Demy, eds., When the Trumpet Sounds: Today' s Foremost Authorities Speak Out on End-Time Controversies (Eugene, OR: Harvest House, 1995), p. 270.

[6] House, " Apostesia" , p. 270.

[7] Davey, " Apostesia" , p. 47.

[8] Gordon R. Lewis & Bruce A. Demarest, Integrative Theology 3 vols in 1 (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1996), vol. 3, p. 420.

[9] E. Schuyler English, Re-Thinking the Rapture (Neptune, NJ: Loizeaux Brothers, 1954), p. 70.

[10] House, " Apostesia" , pp. 275- 76.

[11] Allan A. MacRae, Letter to E. Schuyler English, published in " Let the Prophets Speak," Our Hope, (vol. LVI, num. 12; June 1950), p. 725.

[12] Kenneth S. Wuest, Letter to E. Schuyler English, published in " Let the Prophets Speak," Our Hope, (vol. LVI, num. 12; June 1950), p. 731.

 

[Guy4God]

Paul was refuting the idea that they had missed the Rapture and that the DOTL had already begun. He was saying that it couldn't come unless the falling away and the man of sin were revealed...since the apostasy and the man of sin had not been revealed, Paul was thereby saying, "Your not in the tribulation, otherwise you would have seen these two things". He wasn't saying that they were coming before the rapture, he was just using the point that they would have seen these things if they were in the trib.

 

[Ruth]

Paul was refuting the idea that they had missed the Rapture and that the DOTL had already begun. He was saying that it couldn't come unless the falling away and the man of sin were revealed...since the apostasy and the man of sin had not been revealed, Paul was thereby saying, "Your not in the tribulation, otherwise you would have seen these two things". He wasn't saying that they were coming before the rapture, he was just using the point that they would have seen these things if they were in the trib.

Thank you Guy - that sums it up nicely and much shorter to read.

2:

 

[Chris]

That day refers to the End Times (2000+ yrs), the Day of Tribulation (3 1/2 yrs), and even the Day of the Lord (Second Coming).
The last Days are more than one day for Jesus does not arrive until after apostasy and well after the AOD
Paul is talking about 7+ years here

Revelation Outline

Well, I'm not trying to argue, but I'd say that the "Day of the Lord" is actually the 7 year Tribulation period. If you look in the FOTM book by Dr. Arnold you will see that he confirms this. Also, Jack Kelley also confirms this in the link below which is the same one I posted above:

http://www.gracethrufaith.com/selah/tough-questions-answered/paul-was-pre-trib

The Day of the Lord is a term always referring to the Tribulation period.

I also have another good link that talks about the various "days" used in the Bible. This subject of the "days" always causes confusion, but it is a topic well worth studying because it can clear up alot of the false doctrines out there like the mid, pre-wrath, post trib rapture positions. Here's the link:

http://www.raptureready.com/resource/stanton/k4.htm

I hope that helps. Grab a cup of coffee for the above link as it is a good, but detailed read. :elmogrin

 

[BuzzardHut]

Thats why I provided my rev chart in my post cuz I did a study a while back on "Days" in prophecy and found several days.
I'm pretty sure I used Fru too, along with Thomas Ice.
At the far right of my headings I added the 'days' in regard to prophecy
IV 70th week begins
V. Jacob's Troubles
VI The Wrath to Come
VII The Great Trib
VIII The Hour of judgment
IX That Terrible Day
X The Day of the Lord's Vengeance

the last 3 1/2 years are God's wrath because the first 3 1/2 are the false time of peace (but of course the full 7 is the tribulation because it involves the AC and beginning of the 70th week-which is more than 1 week)
I'm not pre-wrath, I'm just trying to be precise with where to put the several 'days' of prophecy

Well, I'm not trying to argue, but I'd say that the "Day of the Lord" is actually the 7 year Tribulation period. If you look in the FOTM book by Dr. Arnold you will see that he confirms this. Also, Jack Kelley also confirms this in the link below which is the same one I posted above:

http://www.gracethrufaith.com/selah/tough-questions-answered/paul-was-pre-trib



I also have another good link that talks about the various "days" used in the Bible. This subject of the "days" always causes confusion, but it is a topic well worth studying because it can clear up alot of the false doctrines out there like the mid, pre-wrath, post trib rapture positions. Here's the link:

http://www.raptureready.com/resource/stanton/k4.htm

I hope that helps. Grab a cup of coffee for the above link as it is a good, but detailed read. :elmogrin

 

[Chris]

Thats why I provided my rev chart in my post cuz I did a study a while back on "Days" in prophecy and found several.
I'm pretty sure I used Fru too, along with Thomas Ice.
At the far right of my headings I added the 'days' in regard to prophecy
IV 70th week begins
V. Jacob's Troubles
VI The Wrath to Come
VII The Great Trib
VIII The Hour of judgment
IX That Terrible Day
X The Day of the Lord's Vengeance

the last 3 1/2 years are God's wrath because the first 3 1/2 are the false time of peace (but of course the full 7 is the great trib because it involves the AC)
I'm not prewrath, I'm just ttrying to be precise with where to put the several 'days' of prophecy

Oh, I know you are not pre-wrath. 2: I think the chart is good overall, I would just tend to disagree on where the G/M conflict is put as well as the term regarding the "Day of the Lord". That is all. 2:

 

[BuzzardHut]

Oh, I know you are not pre-wrath. 2: I think the chart is good overall, I would just tend to disagree on where the G/M conflict is put as well as the term regarding the "Day of the Lord". That is all. 2:

I think the RR link you provided agrees with my chart

Sorry for the long post :

It has already been demonstrated that the Day of Christ is a time of great expectation for the Church, and is associated with rapture and reward. Even a cursory examination and comparison of the following Scriptures should be sufficient to convince any open minded reader that the Day of the Lord, in both Testaments, does not concern the Church but is the time of God’s wrath and judgment upon the world. It is not a twenty-four hour day, or one single event, but a period of time which starts after the rapture of the Church and incorporates the entirety of the Tribulation period. The remarkable parallelism of the following verses concerning the Day of the Lord and the coming Tribulation hardly calls for comment. Italics are added to emphasize leading points of comparison.

“The word of the Lord come again unto me, saying, Son of man, prophesy and say, Thus saith the Lord God; Howl ye, Woe worth the day! For the day is near, even the day of the Lord is near, a cloudy day; it shall be the time of the heathen” (Ezekiel 30:1-3).

“Alas for the day! for the day of the Lord is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come” (Joel 1:15).

“For this is the day of the Lord God of hosts, a day of vengeance ...” (Jer. 46:10; Isa. 61:2).

“Come near, ye nations, to hear; and hearken, ye people ... For the indignation of the Lord is upon all nations, and his fury upon all their armies; he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter .... For it is the day of the Lord’s vengeance ...” (Isa. 34:1, 2, 8; 66:15, 16).

And he gathered them together into a placed called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon (Rev. 16:16).

The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture in the cup of his indignation; ... And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God (Rev. 14:10, 19).

And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. And the beast was taken ... and the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh (Rev. 19:19-21).

“Let the heathen be awakened, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat: For there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about. Put in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great. Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the Lord is near in the valley of decision” (Joel 3:12-14).

And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for three to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.... The great winepress of the wrath of God ... was trodden without the city ... (Rev. 14:14-20).

“For the day of the Lord is near upon all the heathen ...” (Obad. 1:15).

“Behold, the day of the Lord cometh .... For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle.... Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle” (Zech. 14:1-3).

“For behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch” (Mal. 4:1).

And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the ***** sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues (Rev. 17:15).

Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine,; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her (Rev. 18:8).

And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he threadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God (Rev. 19:15).

And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire. And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory (Rev. 16:8, 9). [These judgments do not turn men back to the Lord, as the tribulationalists claim, for they “blasphemed” and “repented not.”]

“For the day of the Lord of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low.... And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the Lord, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth” (Isa. 2:12, 19).

And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb (Rev. 6:15, 16).

“Behold the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate; and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it” (Isa. 13:9).

“The great day of the Lord is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the Lord: the might men shall cry there bitterly. That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness.... And I will bring distress upon men, that they shall walk like blind men, because they have sinned against the Lord” (Zeph. 1:14, 15, 17).

For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? (Rev. 6:17; 14:10, 19).

And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvelous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God (Rev. 15:1).

Woe unto you that desire the day of the Lord! To what end is it for you? The day of the Lord is darkness, and not light ... even very dark, and no brightness in it? (Amos 5:18, 20).

“Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it. For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine. And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible” (Isa. 13:9-11).

 

[BuzzardHut]

“Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the Lord cometh ... A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness” (Joel 2:1, 2).

“And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the Lord come” (Joel 2:30, 31).

And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise (Rev. 8:12).

And I behold when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth ... (Rev. 6:12, 13).

“Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about.... I will make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.... And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem” (Zech. 12:2, 3, 9).

And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city ... where also our Lord was crucified ... And the same hour there was a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand (Rev. 11:8, 13).

A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness ... there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations (Joel 2:2).

For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened (Matt. 24:21, 22).

“The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining. The Lord also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the Lord will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel (Joel 3:15, 16).

“Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about three; hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast. For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity” (Isa. 26:20, 21).

“And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the Lord hath said, and in the remnant whom the Lord shall call” (Joel 2:32).

Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel (Rev. 7:3, 4).

And the woman [Israel] fled into the wilderness, where she hat a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days ... into the wilderness, into her place ... from the face of the serpent ... And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christs (Rev. 12:6, 13-17).

“And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west ... and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.... And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one” (Zech. 14:4, 5, 9).

And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse: and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.... And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he threadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS (Rev. 19:11, 14-16).

On this issue of the Day of the Lord, it would seem that certain conclusions are inevitable – let the reader check the Scriptures for himself.

(1) The message of the Day of the Lord is predominantly one of woe, wrath, and darkness. It contrasts at every point with what is said of the Day of Christ, no matter how diligently posttribulationalists attempt to identify the two.

(2) The events of the Day of the Lord occur over a period of time, and cannot be synonymous, as Reese asserts, with “Messiah’s Day” and with “the day of the Parousia, which closes the present Age, and ushers in the Age to Come.”[7]

(3) As a period, the Day of the Lord includes the Tribulation, and in most of these texts, is synonymous with the Tribulation. II Peter 3:8, 10, however, gives a good indication that the Day of the Lord extends even beyond and includes the entire millennial kingdom, up to the creation of a new heaven and a new earth:

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.... But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

(4) The Day of the Lord does not mention and has no application whatsoever to the Church saints. It concerns Israel and the nations of earth, but not the redeemed of the Lord which now comprise the body of Christ. The only way in which the Church is involved at all with the Day of the Lord is that when Christ comes back to earth to consummate the judgment of the wicked, the saints appears as part of the “armies which are in heaven.” They come to earth with Christ, and the fact that they have been in heaven and must come from heaven shows that this event sustains the pretribulational position. Certainly, it is not in accord with any theory which maintains that the Church has not yet been taken to heaven.

(5) Posttribulationalists are quick to attempt the identification of the rapture and the Day of the Lord on the basis of I Thessalonians 5:2: “For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.” Fraser puts the assumption this way:

But here, too, is a clear identification of “the coming of the Lord” for His saints in I Thessalonians 4:13-18 with “the day of the Lord,” when He comes with His saints in judgment as indicated in Chapter 5:2. The first part of the fifth chapter is definitely a continuation of the discussion of the same scene as promised in the last verses of the fourth chapter. Only a new aspect of this blessed event is dealt with.[8]

It must be conceded that there are no chapter divisions in the original manuscripts, but there all agreement stops. It is most difficult to imagine how a Bible teacher could call the Day of the Lord, whose judgments have been described in the verses considered above, “a new aspect of this blessed event,” referring to the rapture experience. Reese, who reaches similar conclusions with Fraser, has involved himself in the same difficulty:

Beginning to exhort them touching the Coming of the Lord, he proceeds to speak of the Day of the Lord. Is not this a remarkable circumstance? It is a convincing proof that the two things were synchronous in Paul’s mind, and not separated by a period of years as the theorists assert.[9]

Again, we must concede that a partial truth has been spoken. Those who made the Day of the Lord a twenty-four hour day and identified it only with the return of Christ in judgment, were manifestly in error. But as usual, Reese attacks extremes, rather than the more normal pretribulational interpretation. It is here maintained that the rapture precedes and falls in no part of the Day of the Lord. The two follow in close sequence, which would explain the order of events set forth in I Thessalonians 4 and 5, but when that dread day breaks, the Church of Jesus Christ will be with her Lord.

Reese, setting forth the posttribulational position, lumps together a number of major events and places them on the day of Christ’s return to the earth. The revelation thus becomes the same as the Day of the Lord; the resurrection of Old Testament saints is in the Day of the Lord;[10] the first resurrection, that of the Christian dead, and the rapture, likewise, are in the Day of the Lord.[11] Evidently the Bema seat judgment of Christ, the judgments upon the nations, and the marriage of the Lamb all fall within the same day. No doubt a busy twenty-four hours! Such a view has many objectional features. The lumping together of prophetic events may at first seem to lead to simplification, but the end result is confusion. Among other things, such a view makes the rapture of the Church utterly unimportant, a mere incident in the midst of greater, fast-moving events.

 

[BuzzardHut]

When the Day of the Lord is given its rightful and Scriptural place as a period starting after the rapture, the first years of which correspond to the Tribulation, all the end time events drop into their proper place and the pretribulation position is confirmed rather than injured. The Day of the Lord may well be spoken of in close conjunction with the rapture, for it is next in sequence after that event, but it is gross assumption to identify the two. The judgments of the revelation of Christ are rightfully connected with the Day of the Lord, for they fall within that period. When properly related all the Scriptures harmonize. It is only when interpretation is strained by false premises that conflicts arise and theological delusions appear.
IV. I Thessalonians 4 and 5

It is recognized by most Bible students that I Thessalonians 4:13-18 is the primary passage of the Word of God on the subject of the rapture of the Church. It is likewise apparent that I Thessalonians 5:1-11 is one of the central passages from which an attempt is made to prove a posttribulational rapture. Paul begins this section by saying: “I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren.” These are all good reasons for examining the entire passage closely.
A. I Thessalonians 4:13-18

This paragraph has much to contribute toward the right understanding of God’s future program for His Church. Paul would not have us ignorant (Greek: agnostic) and of doubtful persuasion about so vital an issue. It is evident that the Thessalonian Christians previously had some instruction concerning the coming of the Lord, but during the interval since the apostle had left Thessalonians, one or more of the converts had died. Also, the Thessalonians had received a letter, purporting to be from Paul, which implied that the Day of the Lord was already upon them. The Thessalonian letters were written to counteract these two fears: first, that the dead saints have no part in the coming of Christ for His own, and second, that the living saints were already in the Day of the Lord and would have to make their way through its judgments.

Paul writes in this section concerning “them which are asleep” (or, “them that fall asleep from time to time”). Now, sleep is the softened word used in Scripture for the death of a believer, as when Jesus said: “Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep” (John 11:11). The sleep of death will have its conclusion at the resurrection. The word cemetery comes from the Greek dormitory, or “sleeping place.” It is said that the following words were found inscribed upon one of the tombs at Thessalonica:

When our life on earth is past,
We enter into eternal sleep.

Christians, however, look past the sleep of death to physical resurrection and glorious reunion, and therefore are not “as others which have no hope.”

Thus Theocritus, a Greek poet of the 3rd century b.c., writes: “Hopes are among the living, the dead are without hope”; and Moschus, his contemporary, speaking of the plants that perish in the garden: “Alas, Alas! ... these live and spring again in another year; but we ... when we die, deaf to all sound in the hollow earth, sleep a long, long, endless sleep that knows no waking.” The Roman poets of the last century b.c. speak in similar strain; thus Catullus: “Suns may set and rise again, but we, when once our brief light goes down, must sleep an endless night”; and Lucretius: “No one wakes and arises who has once been overtaken by the chilling end of life.” These sorrowed with a double sorrow: first for the loss they themselves sustained, then for the loss suffered by the departed. Such was the gloom which Greek and Roman philosophy had failed to pierce, and which the gospel came to dispel.[13]

Unbelievers who fall into the sleep of death have no hope, but in contrast, believers in Christ share the blessed hope of His return, at which time the Christian dead shall be raised.

For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them [precede them] which are asleep (I Thess. 4:14, 15).

The victory of the Christian over death rests securely upon the two cardinal pillars of the Christian faith: Christ died for our sins and rose again (I Cor. 15:3, 4). The doctrine of the rapture of the Church is similarly undergirded, for it is “by the word of the Lord.” The latter part of verse 14 refers either to the coming of Christ at the revelation, when He returns “with all His saints” (I Thess. 3:13), or to the rapture when the souls of the Christian dead are united with their resurrection bodies (II Cor. 5:1-4). In either event, those who sleep shall be raised, and the living will not precede, or go on before. All of this was evidently given to Paul by direct revelation, the word of the Lord, its “mystery” character (I Cor. 15:51) indicating that it was never a topic of Old Testament revelation. Christ had taught the simple fact that He would come again for His own (John 14:3), but until the time of Paul’s writing there had been no pointed revelation as to the relationship of the living and the dead at the coming of Christ. The phraseology seems to suggest that a special revelation was granted to meet the perplexity that had arisen at Thessalonica: The living shall in no wise attain an advantage over the dead!

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words (I Thess. 4:16-18).

Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed (I Cor. 15:51, 52).

Christ will not send an angel for us; it is to be the Lord Himself¸ the same One who died and rose again. (These words, in the Greek, are in the emphatic position: emphasizing that it will be a personal return. None other will do to meet the Bride than the Bridegroom Himself, who has redeemed her.)

Three sounds herald His coming, the first of which is a shout. Posttribulationalists make this the triumphant cry of Christ, the military command of one who gathers his armies about him, and apply it to Christ’s glorious appearing on earth following the Tribulation. It is true that the word is a command, military or other, but it does not say that Christ utters the shout. The only other Biblical usage is in the Septuagint version of Proverbs 30:27, where it refers to the signal used by locusts. Thayer’s Lexicon gives the meaning from classical Greek as the cry of charioteers to their horses, of hunters to their hounds, or of a captain to the rowers of his vessel. It may mean the cry of a captain to his soldiers, but Reese reads far too much into the text when he makes it descriptive of the “triumphant arrival of our Lord as King, assembling His hosts for the conflict with the powers of this world and the rescue of the Elect. This is the Day of the Lord.”[14]

It is sufficient, rather to understand this “shout” simply as a signal cry, heard only by the Church, and accompanied by the voice of the archangel (possibly Michael: Jude 1:9) and the trump of God. This may indeed be descriptive of only one great signal from heaven, as it has been paraphrased: “a shout in the archangel’s voice, even with the voice of the trump of God.”[15] It is a signal to the Church, both dead and living, and if it is heard by the world at all, it will not be understood and will engender no response. This is a catching up, not a coming down: it is the Day of Christ, not the Day of the Lord.

 

[BuzzardHut]

The immediate context of this chapter comprises a clear reference to the rapture of the Church. It is a message of comfort and contains absolutely no hint that Tribulation must first be endured, during which time many who are “alive and remain” will be forced to endure a martyr’s death. I Thessalonians 4:11, 12, with the command “study to be quiet and to do your own business” would hardly be suitable for persons enduring a raging persecution. In fact, the whole context implies that the Thessalonian saints had been expecting imminent rapture, rather than wrath, for it took a special revelation to comfort them concerning those who had by death, as they assumed, missed the rapture experience.

Moreover the language of I Thessalonians 5:1, 2 carries the definite implication that the subject of the rapture was a recent revelation, not found in the Old Testament and only now being clarified as to its details. “But of the times and seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.” The believers knew about the Day of the Lord because, as it has been demonstrated, the Old Testament Scriptures which were in their possession were full of this teaching. Joel, for example, had written extensively about the Day of the Lord. Christ also had discoursed on the subject (Matt. 24:27-31), and Paul himself had evidently given some teaching along the same line (II Thess. 2:1-5). “Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?” The Day of the Lord was familiar to those at Thessalonica: “no need that I write” for ye “know perfectly” these things. How different as touching the rapture: “I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren!” Rather than being identical, the two subjects are worlds apart, and this in the very passage by which posttribulationalists would prove their identity.

Also, the careful use Paul makes of his pronouns throughout this section renders conclusive evidence that the Church is a distinct group from those who enter the Day of the Lord. “Ye, brethren, are not in darkness ... ye are all the children of the light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night ... let us not sleep, as do others, but let us watch and be sober.” “Let us, who are of the day, be sober ... for God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation [deliverance] by our Lord Jesus Christ. Who died for us, that ... we should live together with him. Wherefore comfort yourselves together ...”

Contrast, from the same passage: “Then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child [cf. Isa. 13:8; Jer. 30:6]; and they shall not escape.” “They that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.” The children of light watch, but the children of darkness are drunken and sleep. If language means anything, Paul is here distinguishing carefully between those who are ready for the rapture, and those who have not put on the helmet of salvation at all, and so must enter the tribulation of the Day of the Lord.

Lastly, it is a common teaching of Scripture that unbelievers have “no hope, and [are] without God in the world” (Eph. 2:12), but believers are to look with expectation for the “blessed hope” of Christ’s coming. It is significant that in this I Thessalonians passage, believers are spoken of as having “the hope of deliverance,” and are assured that they are “not appointed to wrath.” These are idle words if, in this context, deliverance from Tribulation is not included along with assurance of present salvation.

Although I Thessalonians is not the strongest passage for establishing a pretribulational rapture, enough has been said to show that it is in harmony with that position, and not without some evidence for its support. Posttribulationalism, however, empties the passage of its obviously intended meaning in a vain attempt to establish the idea that the rapture falls on the Day of the Lord. Everything points to the contrary, and the only connection between the two is that they happen to occur in close sequence.

It might be well to close this discussion of the Day of the Lord with a summary of the two principle viewpoints involved. The posttribulational line of reasoning seems to be as follows: The Day of the Lord refers specifically to the very day when Christ returns to the earth to rule and reign. Since it is admitted by all that I Thessalonians 4 is the cardinal passage on the rapture of the saints, and since Paul turns immediately in chapter five to a contemplation of the Day of the Lord, rapture and revelation must fall upon the same day and comprise one single event. Therefore, according to this line of reasoning, the rapture must follow the Tribulation.