Rapture or Tribulation?

Chris

Administrator
Staff member
Rapture or Tribulation?
By Chris Schang

Rapture or Tribulation?​


This is the choice that everyone on earth must make while they are here. Will they accept the pardon for sin as provided by God through His Son Jesus Christ and His completed work on the Cross? Or will they choose to remain in the natural unrepentant state and go through the wrath of God during the Tribulation period?

The sad fact is that the Bible says that most people will choose to remain in the natural unrepentant state and lead themselves down the wide path of destruction to Hell. The Bible says that narrow is the gate that leads to salvation and wide is the gate that leads to destruction.

Will you choose the Rapture or will you choose the Tribulation? The choice is yours. Please make the right choice and choose Jesus Christ today.

What is the Rapture?​


The rapture is when the Lord Jesus Christ will return from Heaven. Jesus will return in the clouds, with the trumpet call of God, and all true believers will rise to meet him in the air. We will then receive glorious resurrection bodies suitable for eternity and return to Heaven with Him.

On the other hand, those who sit on the fence or who refuse to make a decision for Jesus Christ will find themselves going through the worse seven years on earth the world has ever seen. This period of time is known as the Tribulation period. This is a time of unparalleled destruction and death as God’s wrath is poured out on unrepentant sinners. Another purpose of the Tribulation, besides punishment and judgment, is to bring about the national redemption and regeneration of unbelieving Israel.

What Keeps Us from the Rapture?​


Ever since the fall of man in the Garden of Eden, we have been under a terrible curse that has not only effected mankind, it has also effected the total sum of the Creation as well. Sin came into the world when Adam and Eve disobeyed God in the garden. The result of sin is death.

However, God has provided a remedy for our sin problem. And that remedy is the shed blood of Jesus Christ on the Cross. All we have to do in order to be saved is to believe in the One God sent.

“Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.” (John 6:28-29)

Don’t Delay Being Ready for the Rapture​


Jesus Christ took upon himself the totality of mankind’s sins on the Cross and paid the sin debt in full. It is a debt that no man could ever pay. In fact, the Bible says that all our good works are like filthy rags. We could never do anything to earn our own salvation. It took the Lord coming down to earth and paying that sin debt for us, so that we could be redeemed.

I strongly encourage those who have delayed in making a decision for Jesus Christ to reconsider and make it today. You will not regret it making Jesus your Lord and Savior. But you will regret not doing so. The truth is that the eternal destiny of billions of people in the world are at stake with how they respond to this critical decision. Once you take your last breath on this earth, your decision is recorded and your fate is sealed.

I would like to call on everyone that has not done so already, to make this important decision today between going up in the rapture or staying behind in the tribulation. Your decision will have eternal consequences.

The Bible says that God does not desire that any perish but that all come to faith in Jesus Christ. We all have Free Will and God will respect that. He will not force you to make a decision that you do not want. We are all in charge of our own eternal destinies.

Please, call on the name of the Lord today, so that you will go up in the rapture when Jesus calls His Church to glory. Please, do not delay and take a chance on being around for the Tribulation period.

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” – (John 3:16)

God bless you all.

https://www.raptureforums.com/rapture/rapture-or-tribulation/
 

Starcrystal

Well-Known Member
IMHO there needs to be more talk of Hell, and fire and damnation. It seems that the Word is being sugarcoated as to not offend anyone instead of teaching from the Book.
Like in the message I got yesterday? I'll post the entire thing in the proper forum...

"Jeremiah 23:1 & 14
"Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the Lord.
I have seen also in the prophets of Jerusalem an horrible thing: they commit adultery, and walk in lies: they strengthen also the hands of evildoers, that none doth return from his wickedness; they are all of them unto me as Sodom, and the inhabitants thereof as Gomorrah."

Well, um, yeah - That, certainly. Sadly. That's reality today. Makes me both angry and makes me cry. Angry as in righteous anger...be ye angry and sin not. Pray for them. Because you know what's gonna happen if they continue down the road they're on? They're going to hell. The worst kind of wrath is reserved for those who handle the Word of Truth deceitfully. The dreadful flames burn into the lowest parts of the pit; the painful burning knowledge that you spurned and abused the Word, trampled the precious blood of Christ, treated the LORD as an unholy thing and profane. Those who do such in ministry have a most terrifying and dreadful future unless they repent, O, and most seriously repent.
I pray the Word they claim to teach convict them as they read it, for the Word shall not return void. I pray they are not lost and ordained unto destruction because it would be a most fearsome destruction. Just as Sodom and Gomorrah - that's what we have in society today, and it's crept into the professing church. We know the fate of Sodom, we know that Abrahams pleading did not spare those cities of the burning destruction that fell from God out of heaven and consumed them, till the smoke of their torment ascended up forever.

Jeremiah 23:36,
" And the burden of the Lord shall ye mention no more: for every man's word shall be his burden; for ye have perverted the words of the living God, of the Lord of hosts our God."

That's right. Jesus said "Go and sin no more" - in fact He said, "sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee." (John 5:14). Those who pervert the words of the living God will be held accountable by that living God, by Him who judges righteously, whose eyes are as a flame of fire, and His presence a consuming fire: a purging fire, whose fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly purge His floor: He will clean His house, in time, in His time, He will do it. Jesus will come; He will return in power, and He gathers His elect, but the rest: Oh how terrible, for he treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God! And the judgment will be set, and the books opened, and anyone found not written in the book of life shall be cast into the lake of fire, that which was prepared for the devil and his angels, but is also now reserved for anyone who lives in darkness, who has the devil as their father: all those who reject the Lord Jesus Christ."
 

gregb4hope

Active Member
Why do some believe we are in the 7 year Tribulation period already? This belief seems to be centered around a mid or post ideology. I don't think the conditions are yet etched in stone because of the lack of a covenant signing. I believe we are still in the "beginning of sorrows" as told by Jesus in Matthews 24. Its 1st 2nd Thessalonians are excellent epistles to read that also set the stage. Unbelievers don't look nor read so don't expect them to care to know. However, those that do believe should read to see and know more of the Day of Christ, Wrath of God, Ressurection & Rapture, Falling Away of Churches, Man of Sin, Sober versus Sleeping etc. Our faith is to watch and promote the gospel.....still!
 

gregb4hope

Active Member
There is the general consensus in the christian community that the rapture is the next prophetic even to occur. This still meets the imminency timing because we simply do not know the day or hour of the rapture. However, I am focused on the sign Paul gives as to what he does give concerning the timing of the rapture. In First Thessalonians 5:1-3 should you read it. We are told of an event that causes great jubilation and the key words are " When they say Peace & Safety......then sudden destruction". I feel it is what the conditions for peace which we must be alert to aka Terms & Conditions also it must be for 7 years. It becomes the very event that 5:9 read" For God did not appoint us to wrath but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.". God's wrath is engaged by this event. This false peace is at the beginning of the Tribulation and is one of the most important areas of scripture I use to support why I am a pre trib about the rapture. These events give clarity on keeping hope alive for Christ and seperating Wheat from Tares. Could there be suffering among us in our bucking or even disputing what seems a most obvious victory among the masses? Sure for a season. Do we still maintain an imminent timing, not knowing the day or hour? Yes we do! It is important to keep in mind that technically, we are in the 7 year period and not before it but certainly well before the 7th trumpet which is so often believed by some to think that is when the rapture shall occur which I don't support. I am just sharing what & why I do support and welcome your oversight on this seldom mentioned observation.
 

Chris

Administrator
Staff member
It is important to keep in mind that technically, we are in the 7 year period and not before it but certainly well before the 7th trumpet which is so often believed by some to think that is when the rapture shall occur which I don't support.

We do not support this on this forum. We are NOT in the 70th week of Daniel. That starts with the 7 year covenant made between Israel and the many.

Further, when the covenant is made the Bible says "sudden destruction" occurs and has not happened with the loosening of the seal judgments, as we are not in the Tribulation period nor has there been a 7 year covenant established.
 

gregb4hope

Active Member
We do not support this on this forum. We are NOT in the 70th week of Daniel. That starts with the 7 year covenant made between Israel and the many.

Further, when the covenant is made the Bible says "sudden destruction" occurs and has not happened with the loosening of the seal judgments, as we are not in the Tribulation period nor has there been a 7 year covenant established.
I agree we are not in the 70th Week yet! But the sign Paul gives clearly gives that possibility when it occurs and should the rapture is still pending. A peace covenant for 7 years by Israel and Hamas or Arab Council could happen by the next morning. Who knows? no one knows that either. Clearly it will be a very jubilant and world wide event causing celebration. And if we are here at that time, can it be said we are given godly advise and be wary of it's terms. Try not to be so dogmatic when new insights may provide an idea that doesnt deviate from scripture but may add clarity to it. This is not a 7th trumpet sequence near midpoint. I'll stick with pretribulation but after the signing as Paul reveals. Nationally, are they not both unbelievers about Jesus, being seated at the table of negotiation? Israel and Hamas and Palestinians except for maybe a remnant.
 

Chris

Administrator
Staff member
I agree we are not in the 70th Week yet! But the sign Paul gives clearly gives that possibility when it occurs and should the rapture is still pending. A peace covenant for 7 years by Israel and Hamas or Arab Council could happen by the next morning. Who knows? no one knows that either. Clearly it will be a very jubilant and world wide event causing celebration. And if we are here at that time, can it be said we are given godly advise and be wary of it's terms. Try not to be so dogmatic when new insights may provide an idea that doesnt deviate from scripture but may add clarity to it. This is not a 7th trumpet sequence near midpoint. I'll stick with pretribulation but after the signing as Paul reveals. Nationally, are they not both unbelievers about Jesus, being seated at the table of negotiation? Israel and Hamas and Palestinians except for maybe a remnant.

This is not "new insights" this is "new speculation" which contradicts this forum and websites rules that you agreed to when you signed up here. Your idea deviates from the whole of scripture.

There has already been one "ceasefire" between Israel and Hamas. It was not the "covenant" either. Israel is surrounded by hostile neighbors.

The rapture is clearly to take place BEFORE the start of the 7-year Tribulation period (signing of the covenant between Israel and the many). It will NOT happen AFTER as you have promoted. Please do NOT promote that idea on the forums anymore.

Thank you.
 

gregb4hope

Active Member
So you are saying, with absolute certainty, we will not be here to witness the covenant signing involving Israel and an unidentified nation or people that represent the beginning of Daniel 70th Week and the 7 year Tribulation Period (which has 2 periods of 42 months in revelation equally 84 months equally 7 years? Believers in Christ will already be raptured prior to "when they say peace & safety....then sudden destruction." As a result this outcry of jubilation is for those left behind aka unsaved. The possibility is certainly there and I don't dispute its potential. I just choose to be aware of this scripture as we move forward, because should it carry more weight than we realize it is in the word as a sign meant to provide instruction as mentioned by Apostle Paul.
 

Chris

Administrator
Staff member
So you are saying, with absolute certainty, we will not be here to witness the covenant signing involving Israel and an unidentified nation or people that represent the beginning of Daniel 70th Week and the 7 year Tribulation Period (which has 2 periods of 42 months in revelation equally 84 months equally 7 years? Believers in Christ will already be raptured prior to "when they say peace & safety....then sudden destruction." As a result this outcry of jubilation is for those left behind aka unsaved. The possibility is certainly there and I don't dispute its potential. I just choose to be aware of this scripture as we move forward, because should it carry more weight than we realize it is in the word as a sign meant to provide instruction as mentioned by Apostle Paul.

1 Thessalonians 5:9-15 KJV - "For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ..."

The wrath of God in the end times is the 7 year Tribulation period. We know that because the 2 sided scroll in Revelation denotes wrath. In the Bible, every mention of a two sided scroll is for wrath. The 7 year Tribulation period is referred to as the time of Jacob's Trouble. The 7 year Tribulation period is not for the church. It is for unbelieving Israel and unrepentant sinners.

We are not destined for wrath, which starts with the signing of the covenant between Israel and the "many" as mentioned in the Bible. The "sudden destruction" is the wrath of God being poured out after the covenant of death is made when they are saying peace and safety.

1 Thessalonians 5:3 KJV - "For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape."

So, yes, we will not be here because God says we are not appointed to wrath. Taking the plain sense of scripture shows that we will not be here.

I'd recommend that you visit the "rapture" section on the main site. There are over 260 articles related to the rapture here:

https://www.raptureforums.com/category/rapture/

Take this one for example:

https://www.raptureforums.com/bible...according-to-paul-part-2-1-thessalonians-4-5/

So it is with us where the rapture is concerned. Having read the prophecies and knowing that the time is near, we watch with expectation because we know He’s coming soon, and we wait with the belief that when He arrives He’ll take us to our destination.

Unlike others who are asleep, we’re alert and self-controlled. For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep (alive or dead), we may live together with him. Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing. (1 Thes. 5:9-11) In saying this, he offered another hint like the ones in 1 Thes 1:10 and 1 Thes 3:13 that the Rapture of the Church would precede the Great Tribulation.

Before we go on, let’s address the claim being made by some that verse 9 is not about the end times but is simply a promise that if we are saved we’ll go to heaven instead of having to endure the eternal suffering reserved for unbelievers.

In 1 Thes 1:10 Paul indicated that Jesus will rescue us from the coming wrath. The Greek word translated from refers to both the time and place of the coming wrath and denotes a physical separation. If you believe the letter has significance beyond the Thessalonian Church and is meant for the Church in general, then the only wrath that the entire Church can be rescued from both the time and place of is the Wrath of God at the end of the age.

The same is true in 1 Thes 5:9-10 where the context is clearly the Day of the Lord (1 Thes. 5:1-2). Therefore we can logically conclude that the wrath Paul was speaking about in both places is the wrath of God associated with the Day of the Lord.
 

Dragontiger777

Well-Known Member
I agree we are not in the 70th Week yet! But the sign Paul gives clearly gives that possibility when it occurs and should the rapture is still pending. A peace covenant for 7 years by Israel and Hamas or Arab Council could happen by the next morning. Who knows? no one knows that either. Clearly it will be a very jubilant and world wide event causing celebration. And if we are here at that time, can it be said we are given godly advise and be wary of it's terms. Try not to be so dogmatic when new insights may provide an idea that doesnt deviate from scripture but may add clarity to it. This is not a 7th trumpet sequence near midpoint. I'll stick with pretribulation but after the signing as Paul reveals. Nationally, are they not both unbelievers about Jesus, being seated at the table of negotiation? Israel and Hamas and Palestinians except for maybe a remnant.
NObody will do an expect the antichrist reveal first as sign agreement with many nation. Therefore not ready yet.


2 Thessalonians 2:3
Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.

Once reveal who is antichrist then we will be gone rapture as regular people agree to peace; then there are nobody authority only person Lawnessless antichrist revealed.
 

Tink

Member
Please correct my understanding if it is incorrect.

First, 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12 needs to be read together.

2 Thessalonians 2:1,2,& 8 are referring to Jesus Second Advent at the end of the Tribulation

2 Thessalonians 2:3 uses a word that can and is variously interpreted to be rebellion, apostasy, falling away, and departure.

My understanding is this verse (2Thessalonians 2:3) is worded as it is by Divine Inspiration. This one verse describes two departures. One happens shortly before the Rapture, and is the Great Apostacy or Departure from the Truth by the Church. The other Departure is the Rapture, which removes the Restrainer as described in 2 Thessalonians 2:6-7.

I believe we are living in the time of the Great Apostacy of the Church and that the Rapture is soon to come.
 

Matthew6:33

Withstand in the evil day. Eph 6:13
Here is something interesting to think about:

The Greek word apostasia is a noun, translated as a 'spiritual departure' only after the reformation. Earlier translations favor it as a 'physical departure'. Our modern translations (NKJV, NIV, RSV, ASV, JB, NASB) carry on a Catholic tradition by labeling it as “apostasy” “falling away” “revolt” “rejection” “rebellion” (speaking against the reformation).

Andy Woods makes a good argument for this, Arnold Fruchtenbaum and many other credible scholars favor a "physical departure" translation because "spiritual departures" have always existed within the Church. They were happening then and are still happening now.

It is interesting to note
[1Tim 4:1 NASB95] 1 But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away (aphistēmi - a verb) from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,

The apostasy has always been, the rapture must happen first, before the tribulation.
 

usoutpost31

Well-Known Member
Earthquakes, disease, famine, persecution and wars have always been too. But those things were specifically listed by Jesus as heralds of the end.

Jesus also mentioned a departure from truth (Matthew 24:10); but he listed it as coinciding with the rise of false prophets and messiahs that would lead many astray. This would seem to be a specific apostasy; not a general state of being. Paul warns his readers not to be deceived; then he mentions the level of deception that would be present after the man of lawlessness comes into being. 2 Thess 2:9-11. Every kind of power, sign and false wonder.

2 Thess 2:3 is frequently cited by post-tribulationists as proof of their positions. Andy Woods is trying to reclaim it for the pre-trib crowd but I cannot accept his reasoning on that. In context, Paul is describing what the Day of the Lord would look like; or at least what immediately precedes it. If he wanted to clear up a matter that was causing confusion; if he wanted to comfort the Thessalonians that they would be caught up before all this; why doesn't he just say that. Paul can be very expressive when he wants to be. I cannot understand why he would be so vague as to refer to the Rapture as "the departure"; when he never did so at any other time.
 

Tink

Member
Paul is telling the church is Thessalonica the 2nd advent of Jesus has not yet happened, because they were being told it had in fact happened (2Thess 2:1-2). What he told them is that the 2nd Advent of Christ could not have happened already because there are things that must happen before the 2nd Advent. The things that must happen first are 1) the removal of the Restrainer, who is the Holy Spirit (2Thess 2:3); 2) the unveiling of the anti-Christ (2Thess 2:3) whom Jesus will remove at the end of the Tribulation when the 2nd Advent does occur (2Thess 2:8); 3) the Tribulation itself (2Thess 2-9-12).

Both the Rapture and the 2nd Advent are contained in this scriptural passage (2Thess 2:1-12) because Paul is telling the Church at Thessalonica that the 2nd Advent cannot happen until the anti-Christ assumes power and the Tribulation happens. Paul tells them, don't you remember we talked about this when we were together (2Thess 2:5). Paul continues and explains the anti-Christ cannot assume power until the Holy Spirit is removed from the earth (2Thess 2:7). Since one of the ways evil is restrained in this world is by the presence of the Holy Spirit in each Christian, it makes sense that when the restrainer is removed all Christians must be removed and join Christ, the Rapture.
 

caleb357

Active Member
I believe when Paul said to work out our salvation with fear and trembling, that alone should prove to us how terrible hell is. I think about how terrible it would be to wake up into the reality of being in hell and knowing that it will be forever and ever and ever. The darkness and torment and pain without hope and having the first realization that this is it! All the willy nilly jokes and hearsay and little statements made by rock stars and average people or evil people who say "better to rule in hell than serve in heaven". I think about the terrible death that Jesus died for us was for the terrible reason that hell is beyond words to describe and how Jesus wept for a reason that is beyond our comprehension. I think about how He said that the road is wide and broad that leads to destruction. I think about Him saying "Depart from me. I never knew you, you worker of lawlessness". It makes me pray for all of those whom I know that aren't going to make it. And many call themselves Christians. Jesus said that the path is narrow. And at times I wonder if I am traveling on that path correctly. Maybe that is what those two words "Fear and Trembling" edify how we should feel at times. Fear and trembling of an Almighty God and the fear and trembling of going to hell. There is no sugar coating the true reality of that terrible place that will be forever and ever.
 

Chris

Administrator
Staff member
I think it has been said that the Geneva Bible that the pilgrims came to America with had the departure as meaning physical departure, not a spiritual departure. Perhaps it is both? I don't know. :idunno
 

Denny

Member
We do not support this on this forum. We are NOT in the 70th week of Daniel. That starts with the 7 year covenant made between Israel and the many.

Further, when the covenant is made the Bible says "sudden destruction" occurs and has not happened with the loosening of the seal judgments, as we are not in the Tribulation period nor has there been a 7 year covenant established.
Tribulation does not start until the Restrainer is removed. That would be the Holy Spirit, and when He steps aside, all He indwells have to be taken up to meet Jesus. 2 Thessalonians 2! We are not in the tribulation/wrath yet, but that time is rapidly approaching. God promised that all of Jesus flock will be removed before the appearance of the antichrist.
 
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