Rapture Deniers at My Church

crystal spyder

Well-Known Member
Hey guys, I'm back with an issue concerning the same couple as before. The husband is a teacher for the Adult Bible Study. He believes homosexuals are unredeemable. I told the Pastor about this and the Pastor downplayed it to be a preference issue and not a doctrine issue.

I have been deeply troubled by what feels like favoritism to me. Now I just found out that the same Bible teacher believes we are raptured midway through the Great Tribulation. He believes the first 6 seals are not the Wrath of God. I was shocked.

I'm still trying to decide whether to schedule a follow up with my Pastor and tell him how troubled I've been since his first response. Now I'm even more concerned with another dangerous doctrine held by one of our teachers. I'm just dismayed at this point.

I don't know what to do. I hate to think of leaving my home church. I'm just so sad and troubled. I worry my Pastor will chastise me for complaining about this teacher and for not dropping it. I'm going to pray about it.

Fyi: I already know my Pastor holds a pretrib rapture view.
Maybe I'm dumb however, I don't get how for someone entrusted to be a Bible study leader this rationalization by your pastor is expected by him to pass muster: "...a preference issue and not a doctrine issue."

They're mutually exclusive?
When he in essence leads/teaches scripture?

You know that passage that says God is not found in structures built by human hands? Acts 7:48

And how we should be careful if considering being teachers of the word? Because such people will face a stricter judgement? James 3.

Maybe consider those passages.

If it feels like the word of The Word is being abrogated by those entrusted to teach scripture, that it could indeed be time to go.

I think we should feel at peace in church. Not conflicted and confused.
 

Psalm37v4

Hated and laughed at by the world but loved by God
Cheeky, The Lord brought this to mind as I was reading your posts… you might want to have your hubby watch some sermons by Ralph “Yankee“ Arnold. He’s really good at explaining things and shows how simple salvation is. It might help answer some of the questions he has.

:praying for you
 

lightofmylife

Blessed Hope-Prepare To Fly!
You are completely right! I think God will take care of this too. Mike got hired for a Police Department in Florida. He's going there at the end of June to finalize the paperwork and find us an apartment. Housing is expensive and limited so if he finds us a place to live, we're moving. My church may become a non-issue. Lol

God always makes me laugh. I worry about things that God always resolves without me having to lift a finger. Like you said, I just need to seek and obey him.

I can't wait to see Mike's day of salvation!!! I have fantasies about how it will be. lol
:pray ing Mike finds a cute apartment for your needs as a couple and parents, his salvation, and his job works out for him as well. In Jesus Name! :amen
 
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cheeky200386

Well-Known Member
Cheeky, The Lord brought this to mind as I was reading your posts… you might want to have your hubby watch some sermons by Ralph “Yankee“ Arnold. He’s really good at explaining things and shows how simple salvation is. It might help answer some of the questions he has.

:praying for you
Thank you so much! I never heard of him. I'll definitely check it out. I'm super curious now. Lol
 

Psalm37v4

Hated and laughed at by the world but loved by God
Thank you so much! I never heard of him. I'll definitely check it out. I'm super curious now. Lol
If you do a search for him on YouTube you will find something called “Yankee Arnold ministries“… He has some excellent sermons. He just turned 80 recently and just battled Covid, but he is on fire for the Lord. He has lots of videos.
 

cheeky200386

Well-Known Member
If you do a search for him on YouTube you will find something called “Yankee Arnold ministries“… He has some excellent sermons. He just turned 80 recently and just battled Covid, but he is on fire for the Lord. He has lots of videos.
I found one of his videos, 4 minutes called The Gospel. I'm excited to hear it.
 

cheeky200386

Well-Known Member
Cool. I think you’ll like him. He explains everything and makes it so easy to understand. He also refutes Calvinism. Even when he was sick with Covid, he was witnessing to people and sharing the gospel. He is really on fire for Christ
I loved it. Thank you. I just shared it with my mom and a sister in Christ. I'll ask Mike if I can share it with him.
 

CaryAnn

Active Member
Hey guys, I'm back with an issue concerning the same couple as before. The husband is a teacher for the Adult Bible Study. He believes homosexuals are unredeemable. I told the Pastor about this and the Pastor downplayed it to be a preference issue and not a doctrine issue.

I have been deeply troubled by what feels like favoritism to me. Now I just found out that the same Bible teacher believes we are raptured midway through the Great Tribulation. He believes the first 6 seals are not the Wrath of God. I was shocked.

I'm still trying to decide whether to schedule a follow up with my Pastor and tell him how troubled I've been since his first response. Now I'm even more concerned with another dangerous doctrine held by one of our teachers. I'm just dismayed at this point.

I don't know what to do. I hate to think of leaving my home church. I'm just so sad and troubled. I worry my Pastor will chastise me for complaining about this teacher and for not dropping it. I'm going to pray about it.

Fyi: I already know my Pastor holds a pretrib rapture view.
I am new here and this is my first time responding to a post. There are many Christians who do not believe in a pre-trib rapture, or even a mid-trib rapture; but they do believe they will go through the whole tribulation then be raptured up. No one can make these people change their minds and it certainly won't keep them out of heaven. Instead, they will be very surprised as they rise with others to our heavenly home.

As for their views on homosexuality, we all know the Bible says in: Leviticus 18:22 "You are not to have sexual relations with a male as you would with a woman. It’s detestable.” Of course there are other scriptures about it, but they don't mean to hate the person. Many homosexuals have changed or have stopped practicing once they became Christians. I would say the couple are not very open to people repenting.

I wouldn't leave my church over the rapture issue; but I sure would tell the pastor how the couple's views about homosexuality and forgiveness bother me. If that doesn't bother him then ask what his belief is that way you can make decision based upon facts.
 

Epieikes

Well-Known Member
I am new here and this is my first time responding to a post. There are many Christians who do not believe in a pre-trib rapture, or even a mid-trib rapture; but they do believe they will go through the whole tribulation then be raptured up. No one can make these people change their minds and it certainly won't keep them out of heaven. Instead, they will be very surprised as they rise with others to our heavenly home.

As for their views on homosexuality, we all know the Bible says in: Leviticus 18:22 "You are not to have sexual relations with a male as you would with a woman. It’s detestable.” Of course there are other scriptures about it, but they don't mean to hate the person. Many homosexuals have changed or have stopped practicing once they became Christians. I would say the couple are not very open to people repenting.

I wouldn't leave my church over the rapture issue; but I sure would tell the pastor how the couple's views about homosexuality and forgiveness bother me. If that doesn't bother him then ask what his belief is that way you can make decision based upon facts.
Welcome, CaryAnn...great insights! :meet
 

cheeky200386

Well-Known Member
I am new here and this is my first time responding to a post. There are many Christians who do not believe in a pre-trib rapture, or even a mid-trib rapture; but they do believe they will go through the whole tribulation then be raptured up. No one can make these people change their minds and it certainly won't keep them out of heaven. Instead, they will be very surprised as they rise with others to our heavenly home.

As for their views on homosexuality, we all know the Bible says in: Leviticus 18:22 "You are not to have sexual relations with a male as you would with a woman. It’s detestable.” Of course there are other scriptures about it, but they don't mean to hate the person. Many homosexuals have changed or have stopped practicing once they became Christians. I would say the couple are not very open to people repenting.

I wouldn't leave my church over the rapture issue; but I sure would tell the pastor how the couple's views about homosexuality and forgiveness bother me. If that doesn't bother him then ask what his belief is that way you can make decision based upon facts.
Welcome! I have asked my Pastor about his view and he knows homosexuals can repent and be saved. He spoke to Tryan about this and shared testimonies of Christians he personally saw get saved out of it. He accepts Tyran doesn't share this view and says it is God who will have to change his mind.

I'm bothered that he lets Tyran continue to be in a teacher position at church. My concern is how he'll influence others there with this belief. Or how he'll treat new members that have been saved out of homosexuality.
 

Epieikes

Well-Known Member
Welcome! I have asked my Pastor about his view and he knows homosexuals can repent and be saved. He spoke to Tryan about this and shared testimonies of Christians he personally saw get saved out of it. He accepts Tyran doesn't share this view and says it is God who will have to change his mind.

I'm bothered that he lets Tyran continue to be in a teacher position at church. My concern is how he'll influence others there with this belief. Or how he'll treat new members that have been saved out of homosexuality.
I agree with your concerns/leadership. In our church, we have a "life out of order" understanding where leadership is concerned on any number of Scriptural issues where home life issues make one's witness impeded to the flock at large. It is a blessing to see people step down, settle the issue, and step back in, more healthy, more whole.

You probably know this already, but Exodus International ministered to those seeking to leave the homosexual community for decades. As far as I knew, it was a Biblical support definitely swimming upstream on this issue. When I went online to find the link to share in case the pastor wasn't aware of the ministry, Google/DDG would only pull up derogatory references to EI. So I then tried the Brave browser, and more or less the same. Apparently, this ministry (and I don't have time to dig for the particulars) is closing or has closed after 40 years. In a quick glean, some of the leadership has "apologized" to the homosexual community for efforts to help them come out (hence Exodus) of that lifestyle. I'm linking one article I found, which is heartbreaking to see "religious leaders" saying what they are...but to me, it is ONE MORE sign that the ramp is real, and it cannot be forever. I don't even say, "in a few years" anymore. I don't know how I can. I'm not Yahweh...but convergence...

https://www.thetaskforce.org/nation...-responds-to-closing-of-exodus-international/

Now a FUNNY aside...checking in with my OasisK progress on FB this morning, there is a "Days of Noah Are Here!" event shared onto my "You Might Be From Auburn High School IF..." page. I don't recognize the person, I don't know how it appeared. Her profile says she is from Taiwan living in NYC! I can't imagine the page admin allowing it...because "sweet Auburn, Loveliest Village of the Plains" is anything but conservative these days...IMHO/circles. HOWEVER, there is a child pictured in the "photos" of the poster's page, standing in a field of LAVENDER, which I am desperately trying to grow en masse in our hot humidity. It is if everything I have been dreaming lately--child, lavender, eschatology, school publicity for OasisK, hometown--was rolled up into this post! I think it's a fluke/hack...but I also think, BUT GOD, warning us/those folks one more time, one more way. :typing:bow

Keep holding the line...living narrowly, loving broadly. It dawned on me this morning that sometimes the only reason our paths have crossed with another's is to present a contrast to both of us and to whomever is watching. There's surrender, and there's rebellion. Our sins as believers should grieve us to repentance and change, as we become aware of them. The problem in our Noah days now is that no one is grieved ABOUT sin. If you rename/excuse every one that exists, there won't be sin anymore. HA. Don't you love that Yahweh foreknew, foretold, and is dealing/will deal?
 

cheeky200386

Well-Known Member
Keep holding the line...living narrowly, loving broadly. It dawned on me this morning that sometimes the only reason our paths have crossed with another's is to present a contrast to both of us and to whomever is watching. There's surrender, and there's rebellion. Our sins as believers should grieve us to repentance and change, as we become aware of them. The problem in our Noah days now is that no one is grieved ABOUT sin. If you rename/excuse every one that exists, there won't be sin anymore. HA. Don't you love that Yahweh foreknew, foretold, and is dealing/will deal?
I never thought of it that way. That gives me a lot to think about. Thank you! It's so true sin is no longer being discussed in many churches or in Christian circles, as something to Mourn over.
 

CaryAnn

Active Member
Welcome! I have asked my Pastor about his view and he knows homosexuals can repent and be saved. He spoke to Tryan about this and shared testimonies of Christians he personally saw get saved out of it. He accepts Tyran doesn't share this view and says it is God who will have to change his mind.

I'm bothered that he lets Tyran continue to be in a teacher position at church. My concern is how he'll influence others there with this belief. Or how he'll treat new members that have been saved out of homosexuality.
Oh my!! I would have another talk with my Pastor. I am a bold person so for me I would be very blunt and say that Tyran is going against the scriptures about loving the person and hating the sin. Many homosexuals cease their sexual ways when they commit to Christ Jesus because they know it is wrong to continue as they were going.

If Tyran cannot be loving and forgiving to a homosexual then who else is he not being loving and forgiving too? What about the divorced woman with three kids? What about the man who committed adultery and is looking for redemption? The unmarried teen mother? Or even the Pastor who has said things in anger? If sin is sin is sin then your Pastor's reasoning is off. Anyone who teaches others should not have unrepentant sin in their hearts. It doesn't matter what it is over.
 

cheeky200386

Well-Known Member
Oh my!! I would have another talk with my Pastor. I am a bold person so for me I would be very blunt and say that Tyran is going against the scriptures about loving the person and hating the sin. Many homosexuals cease their sexual ways when they commit to Christ Jesus because they know it is wrong to continue as they were going.

If Tyran cannot be loving and forgiving to a homosexual then who else is he not being loving and forgiving too? What about the divorced woman with three kids? What about the man who committed adultery and is looking for redemption? The unmarried teen mother? Or even the Pastor who has said things in anger? If sin is sin is sin then your Pastor's reasoning is off. Anyone who teaches others should not have unrepentant sin in their hearts. It doesn't matter what it is over.
Unfortunately, it was a short rushed conversation. I asked for a time for us to meet and discuss this matter in person without it being as he's leaving church. Not sure if it will happen as I may be moving in a month or 2. I've prayed about it and have shared my concerns. If my Pastor doesn't see this issue as an important one, I'm not sure what I'll be able to add beyond what I already did.

I even typed up all the heretical beliefs they hold and shared them with the Pastor.
 

CaryAnn

Active Member
When you have done all that you can do just shake the dust off your feet and move on. We never learn truth when those who are suppose to be teaching truth teach falsehoods. Prayers that you will find a church where all your needs are met. Blessings.
 

fl2007rn

Well-Known Member
You are completely right! I think God will take care of this too. Mike got hired for a Police Department in Florida. He's going there at the end of June to finalize the paperwork and find us an apartment. Housing is expensive and limited so if he finds us a place to live, we're moving. My church may become a non-issue. Lol
:pray Praying for a positive outcome for your housing needs. I live in Florida and hope your husband finds a nice place for you to live. :hug
 

cheeky200386

Well-Known Member
:pray Praying for a positive outcome for your housing needs. I live in Florida and hope your husband finds a nice place for you to live. :hug
I just created an Excel spreadsheet (nerd alert) to organize our apartment search. Mike is a ball of nerves trying to locate and secure a place for us before August 1st. I'm praying the Lord will help me be obedience to my husband through all of this and to be gracious if the adjustment to the move is more difficult than we anticipate. I don't want to move but Mike does. I'm trusting the Lord to lead me through Mike and that he may be won to him.

Thank you so much for the prayers. I'm getting emotional knowing my time at my local church and with family is down to a few weeks. Mike is so sweet and understands how much I'm leaving behind. He suggested that I return for Thanksgiving and stay until January 1st to be with family. He'll come up and visit at a week at a time as he has vacation time to see Peter and I during the holidays. Super sweet of him to think of that.

God is really changing his heart and I fully trust I may win his salvation for the Lord!!
 
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