Rapture Deniers at My Church

[daygo]

Cheeky, I reckon there as as many reasons for this as there are things that make us all different. Think of how many times we have had understandings we thought were right but then as we study and learn more we come to a different view. We bring preconceived notions, our own preferences, our pride, and all sorts of things into it. Now given a lack of understanding of Judaism, Hebrew culture, original languages, just plain reading comprehension, actually studying..... etc etc. you can see how we come to different POVs.



ing that your Mike would come to faith.

Well said.

 

[lightofmylife]

cheeky200386, you will have to be the one to make the final decision. I don't like the fact that your pastor is allowing false teaching at Bible studies in his church. That doesn't fair well for him as far as I am concerned. He should have backbone to speak up for Gods word rather than a people pleaser. If it were me, I wouldn't go there. that you make the decision God wants you to make.

 

[mattfivefour]

@cheeky200386 : One of a pastor's main responsibilities is to ensure the doctrinal purity of the teaching being given to the flock entrusted to him. Unfortunately, church politics being what they are, some pastors opt for peace in the ranks rather than confronting and dealing with error ... especially if they consider the error as being in a non-essential area. I would respectfully—as sister to brother—calmly express my concerns to the pastor, acknowledge the difficulties of his position (trust me, being a pastor is an extremely difficult task given that people so often act against their own best interests and the interests of others—just like sheep do), and encourage him to stand according to Titus 1:9. As a man sent by God to your flock (2 Corinthians 2:17b) that is his duty to God ... and to man.

I have prayed for you for wisdom, a right spirit, and the anointing of the Holy Spirit as you undertake this task. May God speak to the pastor through you and may he have the insight and the courage to do what is right. Bondage to one's position in a church and the income and security it brings to one's family needs to be broken if it interferes with what God has entrusted us to do. Clearly, I am praying for your pastor as well.

 

[lightofmylife]

cheeky200386, you will have to be the one to make the final decision. I don't like the fact that your pastor is allowing false teaching at Bible studies in his church. That doesn't fair well for him as far as I am concerned. He should have backbone to speak up for Gods word rather than a people pleaser. If it were me, I wouldn't go there. that you make the decision God wants you to make.

I retract my statement on Bible studies I reread, and she doesn't go to them. Their conversations were between them. That still tells you where he stands on topics.

 

[Andy C]

Hey guys, I'm back with an issue concerning the same couple as before. The husband is a teacher for the Adult Bible Study. He believes homosexuals are unredeemable. I told the Pastor about this and the Pastor downplayed it to be a preference issue and not a doctrine issue.

I have been deeply troubled by what feels like favoritism to me. Now I just found out that the same Bible teacher believes we are raptured midway through the Great Tribulation. He believes the first 6 seals are not the Wrath of God. I was shocked.

I'm still trying to decide whether to schedule a follow up with my Pastor and tell him how troubled I've been since his first response. Now I'm even more concerned with another dangerous doctrine held by one of our teachers. I'm just dismayed at this point.

I don't know what to do. I hate to think of leaving my home church. I'm just so sad and troubled. I worry my Pastor will chastise me for complaining about this teacher and for not dropping it. I'm going to pray about it.

Fyi: I already know my Pastor holds a pretrib rapture view.

I would not be concerned about anothers belief on the rapture being mid or post trib. I easily forget that those of us on this forum, are not your average Christian. Average Christians barely know their bible, and know little to nothing about end times. It does not make us forum members better Christians, but we are more knowledgeable on the end times. Most on here have a passion to study end times, while others may focus on different areas of the bible, and yet other focus on trying to find their bible.

My concern would be why your pastor is ok with a church bible teacher, teaching beliefs that are contrary to your churches beliefs.

If you enjoy the church fellowship, I would consider staying as a member, but avoid your friend for any theological discussions.

 

[cheeky200386]

@cheeky200386 : One of a pastor's main responsibilities is to ensure the doctrinal purity of the teaching being given to the flock entrusted to him. Unfortunately, church politics being what they are, some pastors opt for peace in the ranks rather than confronting and dealing with error ... especially if they consider the error as being in a non-essential area. I would respectfully—as sister to brother—calmly express my concerns to the pastor, acknowledge the difficulties of his position (trust me, being a pastor is an extremely difficult task given that people so often act against their own best interests and the interests of others—just like sheep do), and encourage him to stand according to Titus 1:9. As a man sent by God to your flock (2 Corinthians 2:17b) that is his duty to God ... and to man.

I have prayed for you for wisdom, a right spirit, and the anointing of the Holy Spirit as you undertake this task. May God speak to the pastor through you and may he have the insight and the courage to do what is right. Bondage to one's position in a church and the income and security it brings to one's family needs to be broken if it interferes with what God has entrusted us to do. Clearly, I am praying for your pastor as well.

Thank you. I will pray for the same things. I don't want to be used by Satan through this. I also want my Pastor and this teacher to have God's help too. I care for them and my church. I will continue to pray.

 

[cheeky200386]

I would not be concerned about anothers belief on the rapture being mid or post trib. I easily forget that those of us on this forum, are not your average Christian. Average Christians barely know their bible, and know little to nothing about end times. It does not make us forum members better Christians, but we are more knowledgeable on the end times. Most on here have a passion to study end times, while others may focus on different areas of the bible, and yet other focus on trying to find their bible.

My concern would be why your pastor is ok with a church bible teacher, teaching beliefs that are contrary to your churches beliefs.

If you enjoy the church fellowship, I would consider staying as a member, but avoid your friend for any theological discussions.

All of that makes sense. I have been thinking of having a discussion with this couple about avoiding Bible discussions since it appears we don't align on many topics, even the ones our church supports. That's what is most shocking to me, I guess I shouldn't be.

I agree we tend to be passionate on ends time but they have stances on salvation like that homosexuals can't be saved and absolutely abhor Muslims. They believe we are to hate God's enemies (I mentioned all unbelievers are until salvation) and goes against Jesus' teachings. It doesn't make a dent and shocks me each time.

Like you said, we just can't talk theology when I don't even understand where they get their views and they refuse to talk to the Pastor themselves.

 

[lightofmylife]

All of that makes sense. I have been thinking of having a discussion with this couple about avoiding Bible discussions since it appears we don't align on many topics, even the ones our church supports. That's what is most shocking to me, I guess I shouldn't be.

I agree we tend to be passionate on ends time but they have stances on salvation like that homosexuals can't be saved and absolutely abhor Muslims. They believe we are to hate God's enemies (I mentioned all unbelievers are until salvation) and goes against Jesus' teachings. It doesn't make a dent and shocks me each time.

Like you said, we just can't talk theology when I don't even understand where they get their views and they refuse to talk to the Pastor themselves.

We are to hate the sin but not the sinner. Don't they realize God is love. communicated with sinners to teach them truth. How else would they become believers the truth is we are all sinners, but once we are born again we are forgiven. When the Holy Spirit indwells us, we have discernment and the HS is our teacher and comforter.

 

[cheeky200386]

I ended up praying and then calling the wife to talk. She shared she admits she struggles with sharing her views and gets too emotional. She also shared that she find it helpful to see that we hold different opinions because it's helping her grow. I'm realizing part of my problem is that I'm getting offended by how she's speaking to me and it's causing me to want to avoid Bible topics all together. We were able to talk about this and get to the roots of our own struggles. We decided we'll try to see theological differences as opportunities to learn about each other while recognizing if we're getting too heated.

I'm going to keep praying about this friendship. I'm still wrestling about the other matter regarding speaking to my Pastor or not. I'm still torn. A part of me wants to drop it and move on while praying about it. I'm not sure what confronting the Pastor regarding his perceived favoritism with someone who has wrong doctrine will do. He's already made it clear he doesn't see the first topic as a big deal. Idk if the different rapture view will be taken the same.

 

[alisani]

Thank you. I will pray for the same things. I don't want to be used by Satan through this. I also want my Pastor and this teacher to have God's help too. I care for them and my church. I will continue to pray.

I was praying for you this morning and that same thought came to me in my prayer time. Sis, you are strong and uncompromising in your faith. You have an understanding of God's word that exceeds their own. And you are well aware of the consequences of ignorance. I have a feeling they need what God has given you, given to them. And you may well be one of His instruments. I will remain in prayer.

 

[cheeky200386]

I was praying for you this morning and that same thought came to me in my prayer time. Sis, you are strong and uncompromising in your faith. You have an understanding of God's word that exceeds their own. And you are well aware of the consequences of ignorance. I have a feeling they need what God has given you, given to them. And you may well be one of His instruments. I will remain in prayer.

Thank you for praying for me and this situation. I'm praying God would use me here especially as my husband watches.

 

[alisani]

Thank you for praying for me and this situation. I'm praying God would use me here especially as my husband watches.

What a way for God to turn his heart!

 

[Matthew6:33]

My biggest concern is how this looks to my husband. He made the comment that he has always questioned Christianity because of how inconsistent Christians are in their beliefs from reading the same book. He asked me "How can so many people study and read the same book but all come up with different understandings?"

I was thinking about this today... I think you can use this to show him the truth of the Bible and the Gospel for a couple reasons.

1. We have free will to choose. Galatians 5:13, John 7:17, Joshua 24:15; Deuteronomy 30:19-20, Ezekiel 18:30-32.
2. In the end times there will be a rise in deception, false teaching, apostasy, division, and worldliness. The faith and love of many will grow cold. Matthew 24:3-14, Mark 13:3-13, Luke 21:7-19, Luke 18:8, 2 Timothy 3-4, Isaiah 5:20.

Since I am going through similar trials, these brought me comfort because these conflicts show the Bible is true. These things are all happening (even in the Church). Even as I said above, bad teaching is being excused in order to make people feel more comfortable in their sin. "Nothing can stop God's will from being done" - I found this so ironic because its true, less and less sound teaching is just a greater sign of the times we are living in. Bad teachers/teaching is fulfilling God's will by showing His word is true! That said, I still think we need to be salt and try, with God's leading, to rebuke gently and try to correct bad doctrine.

This got me thinking - it is God's will for His Word to be fulfilled, but it is also God's will to correct bad doctrine... Where does this leave us? I think if we are not led by the Spirit and conviction, we will never be effective at doing God's will for us. Hope this helps on your journey. God bless!

 

[cheeky200386]

I was thinking about this today... I think you can use this to show him the truth of the Bible and the Gospel for a couple reasons.

1. We have free will to choose. Galatians 5:13, John 7:17, Joshua 24:15; Deuteronomy 30:19-20, Ezekiel 18:30-32.
2. In the end times there will be a rise in deception, false teaching, apostasy, division, and worldliness. The faith and love of many will grow cold. Matthew 24:3-14, Mark 13:3-13, Luke 21:7-19, Luke 18:8, 2 Timothy 3-4, Isaiah 5:20.

Since I am going through similar trials, these brought me comfort because these conflicts show the Bible is true. These things are all happening (even in the Church). Even as I said above, bad teaching is being excused in order to make people feel more comfortable in their sin. "Nothing can stop God's will from being done" - I found this so ironic because its true, less and less sound teaching is just a greater sign of the times we are living in. Bad teachers/teaching is fulfilling God's will by showing His word is true! That said, I still think we need to be salt and try, with God's leading, to rebuke gently and try to correct bad doctrine.

This got me thinking - it is God's will for His Word to be fulfilled, but it is also God's will to correct bad doctrine... Where does this leave us? I think if we are not led by the Spirit and conviction, we will never be effective at doing God's will for us. Hope this helps on your journey. God bless!

Thank you. I will share these with him on our next day off together.

 

[Andiamo]

Every time you talk about your husband it makes me smile. I feel he is sooooo close to getting saved. The fact that he even asked that question shows that he is still pondering things about God. That is very encouraging!

I think God is going to work out this issue with this couple. It appears they have been reading some bad material.

Your pastor will come around. Don't let these two people drive you out of this very good church.

 

[Amethyst]

IF it means anything cheeky, I don't think that your husband is unsaved because of disagreements among Christians. He just isnt at that point of repentance -just yet- and all other stuff can be a convenient excuse to not give up his own sin.

 

[cheeky200386]

IF it means anything cheeky, I don't think that your husband is unsaved because of disagreements among Christians. He just isnt at that point of repentance -just yet- and all other stuff can be a convenient excuse to not give up his own sin.

It does mean a lot and I know you're right. He isn't saved because he's still blind. I'm praying the Lord will shine the light of Jesus Christ on him. I'm also reading a book called The Transformed Wife to help me be submissive and not be a further hinderance for him.

 

[cheeky200386]

Every time you talk about your husband it makes me smile. I feel he is sooooo close to getting saved. The fact that he even asked that question shows that he is still pondering things about God. That is very encouraging!

I think God is going to work out this issue with this couple. It appears they have been reading some bad material.

Your pastor will come around. Don't let these two people drive you out of this very good church.

Everyone says that and it gives me hope. I get inpatient because so close has been the last 2 years.

 

[Psalm37v4]

Remember, God's timing is perfect...something may be on the horizon that will cause your hubby to finally put his trust in Christ. Only HE knows.

Keep seeking the Lord for HIS will regarding whether you should stay there or not.

 

[cheeky200386]

Remember, God's timing is perfect...something may be on the horizon that will cause your hubby to finally put his trust in Christ. Only HE knows.

Keep seeking the Lord for HIS will regarding whether you should stay there or not.

You are completely right! I think God will take care of this too. Mike got hired for a Police Department in Florida. He's going there at the end of June to finalize the paperwork and find us an apartment. Housing is expensive and limited so if he finds us a place to live, we're moving. My church may become a non-issue. Lol

God always makes me laugh. I worry about things that God always resolves without me having to lift a finger. Like you said, I just need to seek and obey him.

I can't wait to see Mike's day of salvation!!! I have fantasies about how it will be. lol