Rapture Deniers at My Church

cheeky200386

Well-Known Member
Hey guys, I'm back with an issue concerning the same couple as before. The husband is a teacher for the Adult Bible Study. He believes homosexuals are unredeemable. I told the Pastor about this and the Pastor downplayed it to be a preference issue and not a doctrine issue.

I have been deeply troubled by what feels like favoritism to me. Now I just found out that the same Bible teacher believes we are raptured midway through the Great Tribulation. He believes the first 6 seals are not the Wrath of God. I was shocked.

I'm still trying to decide whether to schedule a follow up with my Pastor and tell him how troubled I've been since his first response. Now I'm even more concerned with another dangerous doctrine held by one of our teachers. I'm just dismayed at this point.

I don't know what to do. I hate to think of leaving my home church. I'm just so sad and troubled. I worry my Pastor will chastise me for complaining about this teacher and for not dropping it. I'm going to pray about it.

Fyi: I already know my Pastor holds a pretrib rapture view.
 

cheeky200386

Well-Known Member
I've been distancing myself from this couple since the first disagreement. Now I'm thinking the distance needs to be greater. They hold to some awful beliefs that keep coming up. It's sad because I was hoping we could have a great friendship but man it's becoming difficult.

When is it time to just let it go and accept the difference or just walk away from a Christian friendship? That is another battle I'm having. I try to move on but then another doctrinal difference comes up and it creates so much tension.
 

cheeky200386

Well-Known Member
I appreciate it. I'm just so sad. I want to share so many Andy Wood videos with them but they will refuse it because they don't listen to anyone who isn't a KJV only person.

I try to share verses quickly with them but it's difficult because they often require context and more verses than I can remember on the spot. These debates always frustrate me because it's overwhelming trying to share what the Bible says about the Rapture with just one verse.

I shared how we are promised we won't go through wrath. Then I showed them how it's Jesus who opens the seals starting the wrath. They deny and say no Jesus is not causing what happens in the seals.?!? I just can't follow their logic. I pointed them to Daniel 9 and how the wrath is 7 years for Israel. I shared 2 Thessalonians 2 makes it clear we are gone before the Antichrist is revealed and they just no. Like what can one even say to that?!?!?!
 

lightofmylife

Blessed Hope-Prepare To Fly!
I appreciate it. I'm just so sad. I want to share so many Andy Wood videos with them but they will refuse it because they don't listen to anyone who isn't a KJV only person.

I try to share verses quickly with them but it's difficult because they often require context and more verses than I can remember on the spot. These debates always frustrate me because it's overwhelming trying to share what the Bible says about the Rapture with just one verse.

I shared how we are promised we won't go through wrath. Then I showed them how it's Jesus who opens the seals starting the wrath. They deny and say no Jesus is not causing what happens in the seals.?!? I just can't follow their logic. I pointed them to Daniel 9 and how the wrath is 7 years for Israel. I shared 2 Thessalonians 2 makes it clear we are gone before the Antichrist is revealed and they just no. Like what can one even say to that?!?!?!
It is Jesus that opens the seals because it says Revelation 6 I watched as the lamb opened the 1st of the 7 seals. The lamb is Jesus. Also, we are already in heaven because when Jesus comes back after the 7 years of tribulation we come back with him on white horses. Revelation 19:14. The rapture is I Thessalonians 4;14-18. and I Corinthians 15:51-55.
 

Matthew6:33

Withstand in the evil day. Eph 6:13
I am going through a similar situation at my Church. I have been attending for about 2.5 years. Over the past year, I have been noticing quotes from Rick Warren during service as well as The Passion "Translation" by Brian Simmons being used :eek After much prayer and a long email that I typed up with many references and context to what I was getting concerned about, I finally spoke to one of the elders. While speaking to him, I felt more as if he was just doing damage control and trying to let me just vent. My concerns were not really being taken seriously. To make a long story short the defense of these activities was more of a cop out - something to the effect of "well nobody can stop God's will from being done and most people don't even care or pay attention to things like translations, they are not like you." It was very disheartening to say the least. I found his statement very amusing because God's will is actually being fulfilled by statements like that which allow Churches to backslide from sound biblical doctrine.

So I TOTALLY understand how you feel. The fact of the matter is that false teaching and doctrine is everywhere, even in "good" conservative Churches.

[Luk 18:19 NLT] 19 "Why do you call me good?" Jesus asked him. "Only God is truly good.

The fact is that these people are blind. They don't see the error of their ways. God has blinded them. They are not seeking the truth on these things.

All we can do is gently rebuke them and pray that God opens their eyes and ears to the truth, gives them a soft heart, and convicts them.

Churches are so political, corporate, and business oriented now that you should never step foot in one if you want to escape it.

A sign of the times my sister. Laodicea.

[2Ti 3:5 NLT] 5 They will act religious, but they will reject the power that could make them godly. Stay away from people like that!

We need to be the salt even within the Church now.
 
Last edited:

Everlasting Life

Through Faith in Jesus
Cheeky, I'm:pray ing with you for God's help and guidance. Continue to ask Him for direction and wait for Him to either work or give you clear guidance. He will help you.

Don't write this church off just yet, it sounds like there's some good things there (from what I remember of things you've shared). God can move hearts and situations to bring needed change.

What do you think about starting a prayer thread for all of us to join you in prayer?
 

Spartan Sprinter 1

Formerly known as Shaun
Hey guys, I'm back with an issue concerning the same couple as before. The husband is a teacher for the Adult Bible Study. He believes homosexuals are unredeemable. I told the Pastor about this and the Pastor downplayed it to be a preference issue and not a doctrine issue.

I have been deeply troubled by what feels like favoritism to me. Now I just found out that the same Bible teacher believes we are raptured midway through the Great Tribulation. He believes the first 6 seals are not the Wrath of God. I was shocked.

I'm still trying to decide whether to schedule a follow up with my Pastor and tell him how troubled I've been since his first response. Now I'm even more concerned with another dangerous doctrine held by one of our teachers. I'm just dismayed at this point.

I don't know what to do. I hate to think of leaving my home church. I'm just so sad and troubled. I worry my Pastor will chastise me for complaining about this teacher and for not dropping it. I'm going to pray about it.

Fyi: I already know my Pastor holds a pretrib rapture view.

It may be an extreme measure but you may have to stop atttending the bible study.You've done the right thing by alerting your pastor and now the ball is in his court as leader of the Church in relation to pull this guy into line or give him the bullet.
 

Chris

Administrator
Staff member
Are you attending the Sunday services AND the Bible study during the week?

If so, I'd think you be better off dropping the Bible studies during the week with this guy. It doesn't really sound like you are going to learn anything there with this guy that is teaching it. :ohno I really don't see any reason to subject yourself to his false teachings.

You talked to the pastor about the other issue and it sounds like he didn't want to rock the boat with the guy teaching the adult Bible studies. He probably won't do anything on these other issues and quite frankly it is these kinds of lackadaisical attitudes that have helped bring so much error and fasle teachings into the church during our times.

If you want to support the church by attending on Sundays and then find somewhere else to do Bible studies, I'd do that. You can even see if you can do a home study if you feel comfortable with that. If not, you can do online Bible studies and watch videos by Dr. Woods and other sound and reputable Bible teachers that we have on RF.

I'd think you'd be better off attending on Sundays and fellowshipping with members of your church and then go online to RF, Dr. Reagan, Dr. Missler, Dr. Woods, Dr. Fruchtenbaum, and other Pre-Trib.org teachers listed on there for Bible studies and teachings. I do not know all the teachers on the Pre-Trib.org site, but if you will go to that homepage, put your mouse on the "Articles" navigation menu - BUT don't click the link, it will popup a list of Bible teachers that fall under the Pre-Trib rapture and pre-mil teachings that are what we support here at RF. I don't think these teachers would be on the Pre-Trib.org site and for Dr. Ice to accept them in that group if they weren't sound. JMHO. I've heard of about half of them, but there are some names I have never heard of before. So, just do your due diligence on each one.

I think that is what I would do, but we don't know the entire situation, so please take any advice here with a grain of salt as we do not know the complete situation.

I hope that helps some? :scratch
 

cheeky200386

Well-Known Member
I am going through a similar situation at my Church. I have been attending for about 2.5 years. Over the past year, I have been noticing quotes from Rick Warren during service as well as The Passion "Translation" by Brian Simmons being used :eek After much prayer and a long email that I typed up with many references and context to what I was getting concerned about, I finally spoke to one of the elders. While speaking to him, I felt more as if he was just doing damage control and trying to let me just vent. My concerns were not really being taken seriously. To make a long story short the defense of these activities was more of a cop out - something to the effect of "well nobody can stop God's will from being done and most people don't even care or pay attention to things like translations, they are not like you." It was very disheartening to say the least. I found his statement very amusing because God's will is actually being fulfilled by statements like that which allow Churches to backslide from sound biblical doctrine.

So I TOTALLY understand how you feel. The fact of the matter is that false teaching and doctrine is everywhere, even in "good" conservative Churches.

[Luk 18:19 NLT] 19 "Why do you call me good?" Jesus asked him. "Only God is truly good.

The fact is that these people are blind. They don't see the error of their ways. God has blinded them. They are not seeking the truth on these things.

All we can do is gently rebuke them and pray that God opens their eyes and ears to the truth, gives them a soft heart, and convicts them.

Churches are so political, corporate, and business oriented now that you should never step foot in one if you want to escape it.

A sign of the times my sister. Laodicea.

[2Ti 3:5 NLT] 5 They will act religious, but they will reject the power that could make them godly. Stay away from people like that!

We need to be the salt even within the Church now.
Wow that sounds like my situation. I'm sorry you're going through that too. I'll keep you on prayer also.
 

cheeky200386

Well-Known Member
It may be an extreme measure but you may have to stop atttending the bible study.You've done the right thing by alerting your pastor and now the ball is in his court as leader of the Church in relation to pull this guy into line or give him the bullet.
I don't attend the Bible Studies. These subjects come up just from our normal conversations. Usually his wife asks me about a Bible subject and we disagree. I've been avoiding talking about what I learn in my Andy Wood studies because I'm realizing what I assume they believe is often the opposite.

I assumed they believed the same things that the Pastor has shared all these years. Boy was I wrong.
 

cheeky200386

Well-Known Member
Are you attending the Sunday services AND the Bible study during the week?

If so, I'd think you be better off dropping the Bible studies during the week with this guy. It doesn't really sound like you are going to learn anything there with this guy that is teaching it. :ohno I really don't see any reason to subject yourself to his false teachings.

You talked to the pastor about the other issue and it sounds like he didn't want to rock the boat with the guy teaching the adult Bible studies. He probably won't do anything on these other issues and quite frankly it is these kinds of lackadaisical attitudes that have helped bring so much error and fasle teachings into the church during our times.

If you want to support the church by attending on Sundays and then find somewhere else to do Bible studies, I'd do that. You can even see if you can do a home study if you feel comfortable with that. If not, you can do online Bible studies and watch videos by Dr. Woods and other sound and reputable Bible teachers that we have on RF.

I'd think you'd be better off attending on Sundays and fellowshipping with members of your church and then go online to RF, Dr. Reagan, Dr. Missler, Dr. Woods, Dr. Fruchtenbaum, and other Pre-Trib.org teachers listed on there for Bible studies and teachings. I do not know all the teachers on the Pre-Trib.org site, but if you will go to that homepage, put your mouse on the "Articles" navigation menu - BUT don't click the link, it will popup a list of Bible teachers that fall under the Pre-Trib rapture and pre-mil teachings that are what we support here at RF. I don't think these teachers would be on the Pre-Trib.org site and for Dr. Ice to accept them in that group if they weren't sound. JMHO. I've heard of about half of them, but there are some names I have never heard of before. So, just do your due diligence on each one.

I think that is what I would do, but we don't know the entire situation, so please take any advice here with a grain of salt as we do not know the complete situation.

I hope that helps some? :scratch
Thank you for taking the time to share some ideas. I only learn of these views because of private conversations that arise between me and this couple. Once I found out he stopped using the Pastor's curriculum, I never attended. I have thought to tell the Pastor this too but haven't.

I just don't want to be the one to care more than the Pastor.

My biggest concern is how this looks to my husband. He made the comment that he has always questioned Christianity because of how inconsistent Christians are in their beliefs from reading the same book. He asked me "How can so many people study and read the same book but all come up with different understandings?"

I was sad because I completely agree with him. It's bewildering and looks terrible. I just told him not everyone studies the Bible or even studies it the right way (I'm at a loss here!). That I would love for him to study it too. Then I thought to myself, he won't understand it as a lost person.

I mentioned my thought of speaking to the Pastor one final time. This time as a scheduled meeting where he's not rushed. Mike said he'd be happy to come with me for support and as a witness to what is said so he can help me make sense of how the Pastor responds.
 

daygo

Well-Known Member
Thank you for taking the time to share some ideas. I only learn of these views because of private conversations that arise between me and this couple. Once I found out he stopped using the Pastor's curriculum, I never attended. I have thought to tell the Pastor this too but haven't.

I just don't want to be the one to care more than the Pastor.

My biggest concern is how this looks to my husband. He made the comment that he has always questioned Christianity because of how inconsistent Christians are in their beliefs from reading the same book. He asked me "How can so many people study and read the same book but all come up with different understandings?"

I was sad because I completely agree with him. It's bewildering and looks terrible. I just told him not everyone studies the Bible or even studies it the right way (I'm at a loss here!). That I would love for him to study it too. Then I thought to myself, he won't understand it as a lost person.

I mentioned my thought of speaking to the Pastor one final time. This time as a scheduled meeting where he's not rushed. Mike said he'd be happy to come with me for support and as a witness to what is said so he can help me make sense of how the Pastor responds.
Thoughts and feelings are with you especially on things how your husband views it, am same from a different angle, completely different story but is same outcome, its maddening and sad at same time.
 

pixelpusher

Well-Known Member
How can so many people study and read the same book but all come up with different understandings?"
Cheeky, I reckon there as as many reasons for this as there are things that make us all different. Think of how many times we have had understandings we thought were right but then as we study and learn more we come to a different view. We bring preconceived notions, our own preferences, our pride, and all sorts of things into it. Now given a lack of understanding of Judaism, Hebrew culture, original languages, just plain reading comprehension, actually studying..... etc etc. you can see how we come to different POVs.



:pray ing that your Mike would come to faith.
 
Top