Question

[Lovin Jesus]

The Old Testament prophets tell us that the earth will be renewed along with Israel in the Millennial Kingdom. The prophets refer to it just as "the Kingdom" and link it to the restoration of the Davidic Kingdom. Jesus' disciples even ask Him about it after His Resurrection. (Acts 1:6) We are told that all the world will bring tribute to the earthly Jerusalem during the Kingdom Age. That tells us that there will be a thriving rest of the world in which to generate tribute. It is possible that, at the end of the Millennium, there will be resentment stirred up by the released Satan, over what will then be the centuries-old system of bringing tribute to Jerusalem. Mere speculation, of course, as to the cause of the final rebellion against God.

Ezekiel, in particular says that the Kingdom will last "forever" and I wondered about that to a Messianic rabbi, saying that Revelation tells us that it will only last 1,000 years. He said that "forever" in the Hebraic mind, doesn't really mean the same as "eternal" but rather, just a long period of time, which, of course, 1,000 years would be. He explained further, "It's like a child who says, 'Christmas is taking FOREVER to come'. The child knows that there is some finite period of time between the present and the future Christmas celebration, but that the interval will be long, within his/her framework."

Could it be that the Ezekiel prophecy of Gods Kingdom being forever is Heavenly Kingdom that will be brought to the new earth After the millennium?
Revelation 21:1-5.

Your kingdom come,
your will be done,[b]
on earth as it is in heaven.
Matthew 6:10

The people of Israel is promised to be forever under Gods Kingdom
Then say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Surely I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, wherever they have gone, and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land; 22 and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king over them all; they shall no longer be two nations, nor shall they ever be divided into two kingdoms again. 23 They shall not defile themselves anymore with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions; but I will deliver them from all their dwelling places in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them. Then they shall be My people, and I will be their God.
Ezekiel 37:21-23

 

[Wings Like Eagles]

Could it be that the Ezekiel prophecy of Gods Kingdom being forever is Heavenly Kingdom that will be brought to the new earth After the millennium?
Revelation 21:1-5.

Your kingdom come,
your will be done,[b]
on earth as it is in heaven.
Matthew 6:10

The people of Israel is promised to be forever under Gods Kingdom
Then say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Surely I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, wherever they have gone, and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land; 22 and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king over them all; they shall no longer be two nations, nor shall they ever be divided into two kingdoms again. 23 They shall not defile themselves anymore with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions; but I will deliver them from all their dwelling places in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them. Then they shall be My people, and I will be their God.
Ezekiel 37:21-23

Possible, I guess--but there is a problem in that Israel was promised a physical kingdom here on earth and it will be a mortal kingdom at that. The last 8 chapters of Ezekiel furnish a reasonably detailed picture of the Millennial Kingdom and the ruler over that Kingdom is referred to as the "Prince" (one assumes that he would rule under the rulership of King Jesus). The Ezekiel text refers to the "sons" of the Prince (and that they are Princes too). It would be unthinkable that the Prince would have sons without marriage and we know that resurrected beings will be like the angels in heaven and do not marry. Therefore, one concludes that it will be a mortal kingdom, albeit with much longer life as Isaiah 65, pictures the Millennial Kingdom where "only sinners" will die at 100 and that no one will be considered old at that age. Isaiah 65 also says, "My people will live as long as trees..." Add to that the ultimate failure of the Millennial Kingdom after the 1,000 years and it is quite unlikely that Ezekiel's prophecy was one of the Heavenly Kingdom come to earth. Especially when you consider that there is an earthly Temple pictured in a lot of detail by the prophet and we know that when the New Jerusalem comes down out of Heaven to rest upon the earth that there will be NO Temple--that the light of the Father and of the Lamb will furnish light for the New Jerusalem which is where the resurrected children of God, both Jew and Gentile will dwell together. In fact, all artificial distinctions like Jew and Gentile will be gone. (see Revelation ch. 21 and 22).

I believe that your Ezekiel quote is referring to the regathering of Israel in the Beautiful Land before the lead-up to the establishment of the Millennial Kingdom after the events which occur subsequent to the Ezekiel 38 war.

 

[Lovin Jesus]

Possible, I guess--but there is a problem in that Israel was promised a physical kingdom here on earth and it will be a mortal kingdom at that. The last 8 chapters of Ezekiel furnish a reasonably detailed picture of the Millennial Kingdom and the ruler over that Kingdom is referred to as the "Prince" (one assumes that he would rule under the rulership of King Jesus). The Ezekiel text refers to the "sons" of the Prince (and that they are Princes too). It would be unthinkable that the Prince would have sons without marriage and we know that resurrected beings will be like the angels in heaven and do not marry. Therefore, one concludes that it will be a mortal kingdom, albeit with much longer life as Isaiah 65, pictures the Millennial Kingdom where "only sinners" will die at 100 and that no one will be considered old at that age. Isaiah 65 also says, "My people will live as long as trees..." Add to that the ultimate failure of the Millennial Kingdom after the 1,000 years and it is quite unlikely that Ezekiel's prophecy was one of the Heavenly Kingdom come to earth. Especially when you consider that there is an earthly Temple pictured in a lot of detail by the prophet and we know that when the New Jerusalem comes down out of Heaven to rest upon the earth that there will be NO Temple--that the light of the Father and of the Lamb will furnish light for the New Jerusalem which is where the resurrected children of God, both Jew and Gentile will dwell together. In fact, all artificial distinctions like Jew and Gentile will be gone. (see Revelation ch. 21 and 22).

I believe that your Ezekiel quote is referring to the regathering of Israel in the Beautiful Land before the lead-up to the establishment of the Millennial Kingdom after the events which occur subsequent to the Ezekiel 38 war.

Israel indeed has a Kingdom in earth to live in. Isaiah speaks of Israel living under the Kingdom Jesus sets up for the millennium. As you mentioned. This is the millennial Kingdom because it speaks of men still dying, not living forever. Verse 20.

See, I will create
new heavens and a new earth.
The former things will not be remembered,
nor will they come to mind.
18 But be glad and rejoice forever
in what I will create,
for I will create Jerusalem to be a delight
and its people a joy.
19 I will rejoice over Jerusalem
and take delight in my people;
the sound of weeping and of crying
will be heard in it no more.
20 “Never again will there be in it
an infant who lives but a few days,
or an old man who does not live out his years;
the one who dies at a hundred
will be thought a mere child;
the one who fails to reach[a] a hundred
will be considered accursed.
21 They will build houses and dwell in them;
they will plant vineyards and eat their fruit.
22 No longer will they build houses and others live in them,
or plant and others eat.
For as the days of a tree,
so will be the days of my people;
my chosen ones will long enjoy
the work of their hands.
23 They will not labor in vain,
nor will they bear children doomed to misfortune;
for they will be a people blessed by the Lord,
they and their descendants with them.
24 Before they call I will answer;
while they are still speaking I will hear.
25 The wolf and the lamb will feed together,
and the lion will eat straw like the ox,
and dust will be the serpent’s food.
They will neither harm nor destroy
on all my holy mountain,”
says the Lord.
Isaiah 65:17-25

Israel will have a physical Kingdom. Jesus rules that Kingdom.
After the millenium however, Jesus hands the Kingdom back to the Father

4 Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.
1 Corinthians 15:34-25

My view has been that after the millennium, God creates the new heavens and new earth. Revelation 21

Revelation 21:3 says
Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God

I dont imagine God leaving heaven to dwell on earth with Israel. But the way Revelation appears to present it God will simultaneously reside in His heavenly Domain while also dwelling with His people. Hes Omnipresent anyway.

But The New Jerusalem is the Kingdom that will decend from heaven, with us Jesus bride, so that God can dwell both in heaven and earth..

https://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/confused-about-the-new-jerusalem/

Honestly I know what I want to say but dont know how to word it. Story of my life. Sorry. I tried to explain it. If its complicated we can disregard
Hugs....

Edit to add
I have understood that Israel inheritance is the new earth. While the church's inheritance is heaven. Once God creates the new heavens ( not heaven but heavens) and the new earth, righteousness dwells in both as the two realms join together. Because God is making all things new I think it could be an entirely new dimension.

Israel's inheritance
The righteous shall inherit the land and dwell upon it forever.
Psalm 37:29

But the meek shall inherit the land and delight themselves in abundant peace
Psalm 37:11

Church's inheritance
Having the eyes of your hearts enlightened, that you may know what is the hope to which he has called you, what are the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints,
Ephesians 1:18

Who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.
Ephesians 1:14

He who was seated on the throne said, "I am making everything new!" Then he said, "Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true."
Revelation 21:5

However, as it is written: "What no eye has seen, what no ear has heard, and what no human mind has conceived" -- the things God has prepared for those who love him--
1 Corinthians 2:9

 

[Wings Like Eagles]

I generally agree with Kelley, but, in this case, he is wrong. The New Jerusalem does not come down out of Heaven until AFTER the Final Judgment. The New Jerusalem will be massive (1,400 miles high, 1,400 miles wide and 1,400 miles deep) and will totally dominate the new earth. Revelation 21-22.

 

[Lovin Jesus]

I generally agree with Kelley, but, in this case, he is wrong. The New Jerusalem does not come down out of Heaven until AFTER the Final Judgment. The New Jerusalem will be massive (1,400 miles high, 1,400 miles wide and 1,400 miles deep) and will totally dominate the new earth. Revelation 21-22.

Because the book of Revelation is in Chronological order the New Jerusalem does decend from heaven after the Millennium.

Revelation. 20 is the millennium chapter 21 is after
Jacks comment refers to after because he points to chapter 21 after the millennium.

Then after the 2nd Coming the New Jerusalem will come down out of Heaven with us in it (Rev. 21:2).
https://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/confused-about-the-new-jerusalem/

 

[Wings Like Eagles]

Then after the 2nd Coming the New Jerusalem will come down out of Heaven with us in it (Rev. 21:2).
https://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/confused-about-the-new-jerusalem/

No--what has been referred to as the "2nd Coming" will occur at the end of the Tribulation--it is at the battle of Armageddon when the Lord sends the Antichrist and the False Prophet to the Lake of Fire and confines Satan to the Pit. This will occur BEFORE the earthly Millennial Kingdom is established. At the beginning of the Millennial Kingdom, this present earth will be merely refurbished--that is, put back into the condition that was lost when sin entered the world. Long mortal life, excellent health, peace and Edenic happiness will return to the people of the Millennial Kingdom. They will marry and have children. In addition, Israel will be King Jesus' proxy and rule as it was intended to rule--with a "rod of iron"--dispensing the law and justice throughout the earth. No exceptions will be made for wealth and privilege. If the mortal inhabitants of the earth break the law, no matter who does so, justice will be quickly dispensed. There will be no situation where the King's son rapes the King's daughter without swift and sure justice being administered--such as should have been the case with King David's Amnon and Tamar. The Law of Moses was quite clear that Amnon should have been swiftly executed for what he did. Instead, it was left up to Absalom to assassinate his half-brother to avenge his sister, Tamar's devastation--thereby upsetting the entire Kingdom.

But the Millennial Kingdom will also fail at the end of the 1,000 years when Satan is loosed. Only then will the entire present earth and the atmosphere surrounding it, disappear in fire (see 2 Peter 3:7). And then the Final Judgment will occur (also known as the Great White Throne Judgment). All whose names are not written in the Book of Life will be thrown into the Lake of Fire (where the Antichrist and False Prophet have already been, during the Millennial Kingdom) along with Satan himself AND Death itself ("the last enemy"--see 1 Corinthians 15:26) and the temporary prison that was Hades.

Then a new earth and a new atmosphere will be created. Only THEN will the New Jerusalem come down from Heaven and rest upon the new earth. There will only be immortal, resurrected beings in the New Jerusalem.

 

[Lovin Jesus]

@Wings Like Eagles
Everything you said is accurate. I failed to fill in the in between of the second coming and the New Jerusalem.
Thanks for catching that.
I agree with your entire post. That was my thought as well but in my point that the New Jerusalem is after the second coming is true, it does happen after but I did leave out important timeline information that happens in between.

 

[Wings Like Eagles]

@Wings Like Eagles
Everything you said is accurate. I failed to fill in the in between of the second coming and the New Jerusalem.
Thanks for catching that.
I agree with your entire post. That was my thought as well but in my point that the New Jerusalem is after the second coming is true, it does happen after but I did leave out important timeline information that happens in between.

The amillennialists don't believe in the Millennium so they ignore it entirely. The largely Gentile Church has, unfortunately, always been somewhat anti-Jewish from the time of the Emperor Constantine. He called for the Council of Nicaea and the eighteen Jewish-Christian bishops of the Middle East were excluded from attending. Constantine called the Council in order to formalize the New Testament canon (the various books of the New Testament were already in circulation long before that time and the Codex Sinaiticus, which dates to the third century, proves that the New Testament canon from early on, was nearly identical to the New Testament we have today). Shortly after, the RCC was formed, it sought to separate from Middle Eastern influence. The RCC wasn't apt to buy the idea of a Jewish Millennial Kingdom administered from Jerusalem.

Anti-Jewish sentiment in the churches waxes and wanes but it always seems to be there as an undercurrent. It is one thing that blocks Messianic Jews from joining Christian churches. If they do join churches, they seen to be most likely to join Baptist churches because of the set on literal Bible interpretation present in many Baptist churches. Believe it, Messianic Jews can all recite the Christian figures who have hated Jews and movements within churches that sought to destroy the Jewish people such as the RCC Inquisitions. Protestants were probably a bit better but Lutherans, for example rarely know about the horrible anti-Jewish sentiment of Martin Luther. But Messianic Jews know about it. It was some of the basis for the persecution of Jews by Hitler's gang.

 

[Len]

Only when the Egyptians worship the same God as Israel, through Jesus the Messiah, will peace finally come. For the first forty years of the KIngdom, the land of Egypt will be desolate and the Egyptians will be dispersed all over the world. But afterwards, the Egyptians will be regathered, becoming a kingdom again.

so I guess that also means that "nationality" will still be a thing during the MK but after the judgements there will be only servants of God yes?

 

[Tall Timbers]

so I guess that also means that "nationality" will still be a thing during the MK but after the judgements there will be only servants of God yes?

Yes, I believe there will be nationalities during the MK. As far as how things will be during the Eternal State, I don't believe we're told much about that.

 

[Wings Like Eagles]

Yes, I believe there will be nationalities during the MK. As far as how things will be during the Eternal State, I don't believe we're told much about that.

The nation-state system will not be necessary in the perfection of the Eternal State but it may still exist. Be that as it may, the prophet Ezekiel specifically tells us that the "nations" will bring tribute into the earthly Jerusalem--the ruling capital (which will be known as Yahweh Shamah) of the Millennial Kingdom.

God has always opposed man's efforts at one-world rule since the days of the Tower of Babel. The Europeans have used the Tower of Babel as part of their symbolism since the early days of the European Common Market--announcing their intention to form a one-world government. Nation-states in semi-opposition to each other and in cooperation with each other, are a necessary part of governing the earth until the days of eternal perfection. Where would we be if Hitler had been able to achieve his ambitions for a one-world government (the Third Reich over the whole earth)? But, the defeat of Germany in WWII did not stop other Europeans from dreaming and scheming. The U.S. was the most instrumental in blocking the Third Reich--that's why Hitler's modern oligarchical counterparts are seeking to de-tooth the U.S. (if not outright destroy it).

 

[katt]

Europe ruled the world for centuries, I'm sure they're still upset that America has led the free world since WW2...

 

[Brother Albert R.]

The reason I ask is that I would think all the land in the MK would be completely healed and open to man and beast?

There you go again...thinking. God has plans even during the MK for vast clean up and restoration, and not just a snap of the fingers. There is a lot of people that will end up rebelling after the 1,000 years are up, so some people will not always have a heart for God although they will be ruled by Him with a rod of iron.

 

[Wings Like Eagles]

There you go again...thinking. God has plans even during the MK for vast clean up and restoration, and not just a snap of the fingers. There is a lot of people that will end up rebelling after the 1,000 years are up, so some people will not always have a heart for God although they will be ruled by Him with a rod of iron.

To my mind, one of the reasons for the Millennial Kingdom (MK) is to fulfill prophecies regarding the refinement of Israel, and to satisfy the promises made by Yahweh to them. Yes.

But I suspect that the MK will also function to close the mouths of Yahweh's critics. Over the centuries, critics who fall on the side of legalism, have said, "Why should we have to bear the burden of scarcity, death, dying/disease, etc. just because of the stupidity of Adam and Eve?" "Why should we have to deal with all of the evil promoted by Satan in our fight to stay righteous? Without him, we would be quite capable of maintaining our own righteousness!" and "Why can't you just immediately put on trial and then execute those who do wrong?"

Those critics who fell on the fleshly side of things were already provoking the Apostle Paul with sly questions. In the Book of Romans, he says that they thought, that if everything depended on God's grace and not works, then, they ask, why not sin all the more and cause even more grace to be given?

The MK will settle those questions from the arrogant legalists and the arrogant fleshly/worldly people, for all time. The earth will return to its original abundance and beauty--there will be no scarcities. The Lord Himself will rule it strictly by the Law, and if there is any disease, it will be healed. Satan will be bound in the bottomless pit, so he will not be roaming about like a roaring lion seeking whom he would devour. Isaiah even tells us that the earth will be full of the knowledge of the Lord. BUT, it will STILL fail in the end--proving that, without Him mortal humans can do nothing good--(bearing in mind that the word "good" actually means "like God"). Even as resurrected beings in the Eternal State, we will need Him. The only difference between then and now is that then, in then, in eternity, we will understand our need for Him and will no longer have Satan to delude us into thinking that we can be our own gods.

 

[railfan727]

This is discussed in Footsteps of the Messiah. Pages 497-501. In short, Peace will come between Israel and Egypt initially be means of destruction and later by means of conversion....

Because of Egypt's longstanding hatred of Israel, in the outworking of the cursing principle of the Abrahamic covenant, Egypt will suffer a desolation that will be similar to that of Edom, according to Joel 3:19. The sin of Egypt is the same as that of Edom: mistreatment of the Jews, and so punishment will come. With Edom, it will be total and permanent (desolation and wilderness). But with Egypt, it will be total yet temporary (desolation but not wilderness). In fact, the desolation of Egypt is to last only for the first forty years of the Kingdom, as recorded in Eze 29:1-16.

Peace will come between Israel and Egypt by means of conversion. Only when the Egyptians worship the same God as Israel, through Jesus the Messiah, will peace finally come. For the first forty years of the KIngdom, the land of Egypt will be desolate and the Egyptians will be dispersed all over the world. But afterwards, the Egyptians will be regathered, becoming a kingdom again.



Edom, which Arnold puts in southern Jordan, will remain a wasteland throughout the Millennium. Babylon is the other area that will be a wasteland and uninhabitable throughout the Millennium.

Throughout the Kingdom period, no man will even so much as pass by the ruins of Babylon, something that is hardly true today. Not only is Babylon to be a desolate wasted throughout the Kingdom, it will also be a place of continual burning and smoke throughout the Millennium, according to Rev 19:3. (Taken from Footsteps pg 504)

And this leads me to think that Babylon will be literally revived in order to serve as the Antichrist's base of operations. This continual burning and smoke will be a symbol of his defeat!

I cannot wait to see this after all the grief Satan's global elite henchmen are putting us through right now....

 

[athenasius]

And this leads me to think that Babylon will be literally revived in order to serve as the Antichrist's base of operations. This continual burning and smoke will be a symbol of his defeat!

I cannot wait to see this after all the grief Satan's global elite henchmen are putting us through right now....

Andy Woods has a lot of very good teaching on the Babylon means Babylon idea. Really good. Somebody here explained that if you go into the upper right corner of any YT video you can speed it up quite a bit, and I find it useful for listening to Andy when he launches into an hour or more on something. (I also use it to slow some fast talking Americans down enough that I can understand them-- Billy Crone for one). I wish I could remember who gave me that tip but it's life altering!

 

[soundingthealarm]

Andy Woods has a lot of very good teaching on the Babylon means Babylon idea. Really good. Somebody here explained that if you go into the upper right corner of any YT video you can speed it up quite a bit, and I find it useful for listening to Andy when he launches into an hour or more on something. (I also use it to slow some fast talking Americans down enough that I can understand them-- Billy Crone for one). I wish I could remember who gave me that tip but it's life altering!

I've got to talk to Billy on a few occasions, he called me to recruit me to write a chapter in a Terry James book. I TALK FAST but Billy talks FASTER and my wife would say that is an amazing thing that someone talks faster than me lol

I love Andy Woods ministry and yet I'm glad you can fast forward through too! lololol

 

[railfan727]

Andy Woods has a lot of very good teaching on the Babylon means Babylon idea. Really good. Somebody here explained that if you go into the upper right corner of any YT video you can speed it up quite a bit, and I find it useful for listening to Andy when he launches into an hour or more on something. (I also use it to slow some fast talking Americans down enough that I can understand them-- Billy Crone for one). I wish I could remember who gave me that tip but it's life altering!

I like Andy Woods a lot. He sure is thorough. His series on all of the different Rapture views is up to 45 parts.... and counting..........

 

[Spartan Sprinter 1]

I like Andy Woods a lot. He sure is thorough. His series on all of the different Rapture views is up to 45 parts.... and counting..........

Same, i also enjoy the pastors point of view that he hosts with his assistant pastor Jim McGowan

 

[Spartan Sprinter 1]

I've got to talk to Billy on a few occasions, he called me to recruit me to write a chapter in a Terry James book. I TALK FAST but Billy talks FASTER and my wife would say that is an amazing thing that someone talks faster than me lol

I love Andy Woods ministry and yet I'm glad you can fast forward through too! lololol

AHAHAH i've probably mentioned this a million times before but i just love it when Billy's a guest on prophecy watchers and speaking a million miles an hour whilst the host Gary Stearman just sits back in stunned silence at the barrage of knowledge that he is being brought up to date with , especially the AI tech